• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

New Tomb Raider interview w/ Meagan Marie - future of the franchise

After TR2013 and ROTTR, Lara's next evolution should obviously be that she becomes a trained and hired killer that kills her enemies in way similar to the Punisher. Extreme prejudice and slaughter.

She also finds one artifact that immediately is lost down a fault in the ground.

Her next evolution should be her interest in wanting to go explore and hunt down lost treasures, possibly teaming up with a corporation that contracts archaeologists to do just that. Because as it's said in TR 2013 she said she hated the experience, so it would be wise to now start developing Lara Croft as the character she was made famous for at this point (should have happened in 2013 but whatever).

It's pretty lazy to just go with "she should kill more because it's cool", rather than exploring more reasons, and what makes Lara different from angry marine dude 54/Chris Redfield.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Since its 1996 debut, the Tomb Raider franchise has evolved from pin-up lad mag material to a thought-provoking series of substance
uF9MjJo3QIaijySXC4iL_Confused%20Christian%20Bale.gif

I actually like the new Tomb Raiders for what is left of Tomb Raider in there but come on.
New Tomb Raider is shallow in comparison.
The original isn't a Classic because of Lara's triangle tits
 
Perhaps you should actually educate yourself on Core Lara's characterisation and backstory before criticising it.

Core Lara was born into a very traditional aristocratic family in the late 60s. She was raised to be a "proper lady", sent to boarding school, later to a Swiss finishing school (which is where European aristocracy used to send their daughters to learn how to be a good high society wife and mother, hostess, etc.) and her parents arranged her engagement with some wealthy aristocrat. When she crashed in the Himalayas and realised that she wanted to live the life of an adventurer, her parents were outraged and disowned her but Lara stayed true to herself. One of her aunts was rather more understanding of her situation and gave her the mansion she ended up living in but her relationship with her parents (who are still alive throughout all of the events that take place in Core's timeline) remained icy and she finances her trips by writing travel guides.

LAU Lara was born into a family of aristocratic archaeologists who, from an early age, encouraged her to pursue archaeology herself, then died/went missing when she was still a kid or a teenager and left her their considerable fortune. Now her sole motivator is to find out what happened to her parents.

In what world is the LAU backstory better than Core's backstory? Core Lara faced incredible societal and parental pressure and defied it to do what she wanted to do and be who she wanted to be whereas LAU Lara dutifully followed in her parents' footsteps and arranged her entire life around finding out what happened to them. Not only does the LAU version make for a less interesting character, it's also an incredibly cheesy and generic action hero background that contradicts the entire point of Lara's original bio which skillfully established her as an independent thinker, a rebel and a loner with little regard for other people's opinions, societal norms, standing or wealth. It also feels far more original and nuanced, where LAU's backstory feels like overly dramatic, Americanised Hollywood BS.

Quoted again for TRUTH
 

Falchion

Member
I really, really like the new Tomb Raider, I can't wait to see what direction they are planning to take Shadow in.
 
...It's not like [Crystal Dynamics] gave [Lara] the Other M treatment or anything...

I’ve described elsewhere why I think Metroid: Other M might be apt analogy (one / two / three) for what Crystal has done with Lara, but others here in this thread have said it better:
...Crystal even repeated their own mistake by making Lara's endeavours wholly dependent on her father's career (FOR THE SECOND TIME - and it wasn't popular the first time they did) and in doing so completely remove Lara's agency and one of original Lara's strongest features - her adventurous lifestyle coming from within her. CORE's Lara wasn't motivated by personal loss or parental issues, she forged her own lane in life and turned her back on aristocracy...

Perhaps you should actually educate yourself on Core Lara's characterisation and backstory before criticising it. Core Lara was born into a very traditional aristocratic family in the late 60s. She was raised to be a "proper lady", sent to boarding school, later to a Swiss finishing school (which is where European aristocracy used to send their daughters to learn how to be a good high society wife and mother, hostess, etc.) and her parents arranged her engagement with some wealthy aristocrat. When she crashed in the Himalayas and realised that she wanted to live the life of an adventurer, her parents were outraged and disowned her but Lara stayed true to herself. One of her aunts was rather more understanding of her situation and gave her the mansion she ended up living in but her relationship with her parents (who are still alive throughout all of the events that take place in Core's timeline) remained icy and she finances her trips by writing travel guides.

LAU Lara was born into a family of aristocratic archaeologists who, from an early age, encouraged her to pursue archaeology herself, then died/went missing when she was still a kid or a teenager and left her their considerable fortune. Now her sole motivator is to find out what happened to her parents.

In what world is the LAU backstory better than Core's backstory? Core Lara faced incredible societal and parental pressure and defied it to do what she wanted to do and be who she wanted to be whereas LAU Lara dutifully followed in her parents' footsteps and arranged her entire life around finding out what happened to them. Not only does the LAU version make for a less interesting character, it's also an incredibly cheesy and generic action hero background that contradicts the entire point of Lara's original bio which skillfully established her as an independent thinker, a rebel and a loner with little regard for other people's opinions, societal norms, standing or wealth. It also feels far more original and nuanced, where LAU's backstory feels like overly dramatic, Americanised Hollywood BS.

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/lara/old_bio.html
CORE DESIGN BIO: "...He remembered Lara from his lecture - her incessant yet insightful questions had made quite an impression upon him... Her Himalayan odyssey was both miraculous and enlightening, as the young woman not only survived, but gained a perspective on herself and the world that made her past appear shallow and naive. Out of the darkness of her ordeal, she saw her future reflected in a different light. She felt profoundly that there was more for her in this life than the coddled existence that had become her numbing habit. She realized that she was only truly alive when she was travelling alone. Over the eight following years she acquired an intimate knowledge of ancient civilizations across the globe. Her family soon disowned their prodigal daughter, hoping she would wed The Earl of Farrington. She turned to writing to fund her trips. Famed for discovering several ancient sites of profound archaeological interest and gaining some notoriety for having slain an actual Bigfoot in North America, she made a name for herself by publishing travel books & detailed journals of her exploits. Lara Croft became the seeker of truths, both large and small, and in that pursuit she continues to this day."

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/lara/info.html
CRYSTAL DYNAMICS BIO: "...At the age of nine she survived a plane crash in the Himalayas that took the life of her mother. In perhaps the first story of her prodigious indomitability, she somehow survived a solo ten-day trek across the Himalayan mountains, one of the most hostile environments on the planet. The story goes that when she arrived in Katmandu she went to the nearest bar and made a polite telephone call to her father asking if it would be convenient for him to come and pick her up. For six years following the plane crash, Lara rarely left her father's side, traveling around the world from one archeological dig site to another. During this period she was ostensibly given a standard education from private tutors, but it would probably be more accurate to say she was her father's full time apprentice..."
 

DocSeuss

Member
I liked Rise of the Tomb Raider, and I don't think the writing is bad at all, but I really wish they'd name these games in a way that makes it easier to sort in my games library.

That said, the whole obsession with her father, who we've never met, is horrible. If we knew him, maybe we'd care, but we haven't, so, well, we don't.
 
Perhaps you should actually educate yourself on Core Lara's characterisation and backstory before criticising it.

Core Lara was born into a very traditional aristocratic family in the late 60s. She was raised to be a "proper lady", sent to boarding school, later to a Swiss finishing school (which is where European aristocracy used to send their daughters to learn how to be a good high society wife and mother, hostess, etc.) and her parents arranged her engagement with some wealthy aristocrat. When she crashed in the Himalayas and realised that she wanted to live the life of an adventurer, her parents were outraged and disowned her but Lara stayed true to herself. One of her aunts was rather more understanding of her situation and gave her the mansion she ended up living in but her relationship with her parents (who are still alive throughout all of the events that take place in Core's timeline) remained icy and she finances her trips by writing travel guides.

LAU Lara was born into a family of aristocratic archaeologists who, from an early age, encouraged her to pursue archaeology herself, then died/went missing when she was still a kid or a teenager and left her their considerable fortune. Now her sole motivator is to find out what happened to her parents.

In what world is the LAU backstory better than Core's backstory? Core Lara faced incredible societal and parental pressure and defied it to do what she wanted to do and be who she wanted to be whereas LAU Lara dutifully followed in her parents' footsteps and arranged her entire life around finding out what happened to them. Not only does the LAU version make for a less interesting character, it's also an incredibly cheesy and generic action hero background that contradicts the entire point of Lara's original bio which skillfully established her as an independent thinker, a rebel and a loner with little regard for other people's opinions, societal norms, standing or wealth. It also feels far more original and nuanced, where LAU's backstory feels like overly dramatic, Americanised Hollywood BS.

I 100% agree with this post.

Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that the Tomb Raider brand owes much of its success to horny teenagers looking for tits.
 
I 100% agree with this post.

Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that the Tomb Raider brand owes much of its success to horny teenagers looking for tits.

You... you don't honestly believe the originals were made for horny teenagers do you? When you compare the games to the kinds of things Japan was doing at the time with anime, PC-98 games and manga you should see a difference of market appeal. Besides it's known that even grown adults, with wives, loved the classics. Even celebrities who never were interested in games.

The ignorance of people thinking Core made the classics for dem horny males is a horrible and disrespectful stereotype and flat out wrong. Not to mention I was playing these games since I was 5 and still loved them as well as many many other games.
 

Cels

Member
You... you don't honestly believe the originals were made for horny teenagers do you? When you compare the games to the kinds of things Japan was doing at the time with anime, PC-98 games and manga you should see a difference of market appeal. Besides it's known that even grown adults, with wives, loved the classics. Even celebrities who never were interested in games.

The ignorance of people thinking Core made the classics for dem horny males is a horrible and disrespectful stereotype and flat out wrong. Not to mention I was playing these games since I was 5 and still loved them as well as many many other games.

no, i don't think the games weren't made for horny males, but the way the games were marketed leaned heavily on that angle, and that's what people tend to remember
 

Wanderer5

Member
Expanding on Endurance mode would be nice, as that is a really cool mode.

Give me a fucking break.

Anyway, tried playing Rise, but said fuck it an uninstalled it after playing like 25% of it.
I kind of tolerated the Reboot, but i really don't like what the series has become.

Then again, has i said multiple times, the series had been a weird mixture of bad and good ideas ever since tomb Raider 2 decided that Venice was a cool location for Tomb Raiding.

Hey, Venice was a nice section! Offshore Rig through, now that was shit.
 

forrest

formerly nacire
I'm glad the franchise is doing well and I even enjoyed the reboots, horrible dialogue and writing aside.

In all honesty though, they just don't feel like Tomb Raider games. The sense of wonder, isolation, immersion are completely gone for me. While I know I'm pretty much shouting into an empty hole at this point, especially given the sales figures of the new titles, I would still rather see a return to form. Just turn the balance dial between set piece action / gunfights and environmental puzzles / exploration way the fuck back.

The sad part is that the foundation is there, but I just can't see anyone with the ability to make that shift.

I mean she doesn't even have dual pistols.
PERIOD.
 

Harlequin

Member
You... you don't honestly believe the originals were made for horny teenagers do you? When you compare the games to the kinds of things Japan was doing at the time with anime, PC-98 games and manga you should see a difference of market appeal. Besides it's known that even grown adults, with wives, loved the classics. Even celebrities who never were interested in games.

The ignorance of people thinking Core made the classics for dem horny males is a horrible and disrespectful stereotype and flat out wrong. Not to mention I was playing these games since I was 5 and still loved them as well as many many other games.

Yup and the Tomb Raider fanbase also includes a fairly large amount of women and gay men (and LGBT+ people in general), especially compared to most other AAA video game fanbases. It is true that Eidos' marketing back in the day did use Lara's sex appeal to sell the games, even though Lara never actually used it herself in the games and - apart from her admittedly impractical short shorts and her idealised figure (and maybe - maybe - that one scene in TR5's Ireland flashback intro) - was never sexualised or sexually objectified in the games. However, while a fair amount of TR players back in the day may well have been "horny teenagers looking for tits", the proportion of people within the TR fan community who view the games or the character in such a way is incredibly low and it also doesn't in any way affect the quality of Lara's original backstory or characterisation as, like I said, that marketing approach never really bled into the games. The only thing I can think of that the reboot has been doing better than Core's games regarding Lara is her wardrobe.
 

Mihos

Gold Member
I miss the original gameplay. Walking into an area and just being like "how the hell do I get up there?!?"

The new ones just seem like another war game with way too much talking in between shooting people in the face or doing a quicktime event
 
I 100% agree with this post. Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that the Tomb Raider brand owes much of its success to horny teenagers looking for tits.

....the Tomb Raider fanbase also includes a fairly large amount of women and gay men (and LGBT+ people in general)... it also doesn't in any way affect the quality of Lara's original backstory or characterisation as, like I said, that marketing approach never really bled into the games...

Briefly returning to what Lime noted, in another thread:
From a purely visual perspective, I completely agree that the re-imaginary was a much better and much more believable design that actually seemed realistic to various degrees. Before this visual reboot, it was pretty evident that Eidos back in the day took the character of Lara Croft and used her as a means to market the games with cheap titillation in order to appeal to straight boys / men with disposable income. (Sidenote: the character was originally supposed to be South-American, but Eidos decided against it and made her a White Brit instead). Yet, as evidenced in many different testimonies by girls and women (such as this research article, or Latoya Peterson & her documentary series on Girl Gamers), Lara Croft was an important character to them in their childhood despite of the obvious sexual objectification in marketing (this is not me condoning the sexual objectification, just nuancing how players use games to their own end)...

The research article (to which Lime links us, above) goes on in quite some detail. It’s really worth looking at in full (as is the above-linked documentary video), for folks who are interested in this subject:
http://gamestudies.org/1402/articles/maccallumstewart
by Esther MacCallum-Stewart
This paper examines the 2013 iteration of Tomb Raider in the light of previous scholarship, arguing that… critics have often used Lara’s sexualised appearance to unfairly dismiss the players who see her as an icon or those that have simply enjoyed playing with and through her for nearly 20 years…

In From Barbie to Mortal Combat, edited by Cassell and Jenkins (2000), recognised as one of the first feminist texts about gaming, Lara is a frequently mentioned example. The responses of the authors towards her demonstrate an alarming bias, which seems to have gone unnoticed. Lara is bad; a negative role model played primarily by boys... whose physical appearance outweighs any productive representations or her appropriation by female gamers. The complexities of playing and understanding Lara are largely ignored, despite specific examples within the text where female gamers express their affection for her... These comments are placed in the text despite contradictory examples of a female player who “loves” the game (interviews with Theresa Duncan and Monica Gesue, in Cassell and Jenkins, 2000, 190), a female player who uses Tomb Raider as an example of a “the best game” in order to browbeat a group of male players, (Jenkins, 2000, 329), and the continuing acknowledgement throughout of Lara’s commercial success (attributed, without corroboration, “almost entirely in terms of her erotic appeal to young male players”) (Cassell and Jenkins, 2000, 30)…

Lara is constructed as a problem; even female players who identify with her are seen as somehow traitorous or too young to appreciate her negative positioning; upholding a barbarised representation of falsified femininity. The writers in From Barbie to Mortal Kombat laid the foundations for important feminist debates in gaming, but they also construct Lara as standing in opposition to it… There is a second point, close to this one. I have an abiding affection for Lara, both as a subject of critical debate and a gaming icon. Lara is an irrefutable part of my gaming life and has been since her inception... and when I play her, I revel in her strength and abilities, her wisecracks and her cheesy lines, as well as appreciating that she is not particularly realistic. In this respect, she is much the same as every other gaming character I have ever adopted. I frequently see through her (as Aarseth suggests I do), in order to get on with the serious business of playing Tomb Raider itself, and sometimes simply revel in her disproportionate and often amusing behaviour…

Examining early accounts of playing Lara, as well as those recounted by existing gamers, reveals that despite her appearance, Lara was seen in a much more positive light by players themselves. Players revelled in her difference, including her femininity and sometimes, but not always, her sexuality. Their writing shows an appreciation of the tensions she exhibits, but it also celebrates her as a proactive member of the gaming canon… As one of the only consistent female characters in gaming history, Lara was, and remains, a popular and iconic figure. These accounts also suggest that affection for her is an enduring element of Tomb Raider’s play experience. As Becky Chambers argues, Lara often appeared to them at a key point in their gaming lives; “no game had given me such a visceral sense of adventure and danger. And no story I had seen -- movies, books, or otherwise -- had ever told me that a woman was allowed to be cast in such a role” (Chambers, 2013). Denying the part that Lara has played in the experience of female gamers by resisting her appeal is therefore a contrary and troubling moment in gaming academia...

...This paper is not an apologist for Lara’s body. Lara is to-be-looked-at, and early versions of her avatar were specifically designed to appeal to young male audiences. Her new avatar has pert breasts and wears a tight t-shirt. She is still a sexualised character; albeit with a slightly broader sexual appeal. However, it seems hugely counterproductive to continue with this critique. Lara is, after all, one of many central protagonists in the AAA domain who are created in an idealised form. Despite her early incarnation on paper as a Hispanic Laura Cruz, she is white and of average height. After various re-imaginings where she had become disproportionately formed, Lara’s 2013 body is slender but athletic. She has a dusting of freckles and smears of dirt, but she is still attractive in a very normative manner. Her face is symmetrical and she does not have any cellulite. She is fit and muscular without overstepping current ideals of athletic womanhood. Yet it seems horribly unfair, not to mention counterproductive, to on-going analysis of gaming bodies, sexuality and gendered representation, to still hold this physicality against her…

The critics who have examined her seem unable to look past this physicality, and despite Aarseth’s famous statement that Lara’s appearance is immaterial, it seems that critical work has not only failed to move beyond this, but has deliberately obfuscated the accounts and testimony of fans who have grown up and appreciated her… Gaming history itself has worked against Lara. In the 1990s, gaming did indeed comprise a majority corpus of male players. By extension, this means that all games were predominantly played by males, so using this detail in order to reject Lara’s use by them is somewhat disingenuous. However, to portray all of these men as heteronormative, misogynist neanderthals, slobbering for the next shot of a breast, is incredibly offensive, not to mention sexist and disrespectful. It is unfair and almost certainly incorrect to claim that all of them lacked sufficient liberation to see Lara as anything other than a cyber bimbo, or that they all intentionally appropriated her gender when playing. For many, being able to play as a woman was as refreshing as it was for the many invisible members of Lara’s female audience.

Furthermore, the prevalence of male players at this point in gaming history does not mean that female players were not present or that they rejected Lara. The authors of From Barbie to Mortal Kombat find these women -- women who say it is a pleasure to play Lara and that she is a real heroine -- and then they reject them. Players like Hannah Rutherford of the Yogscast (see below) grew up with Lara. She was not only a relative constant in their gaming lives, but, as critics are at pains to point out, she was a female protagonist in a male world. Being able to look beyond Lara’s superficial gratuity, and see her as a relatively under-represented element of gaming culture was an essential part of recognising her role in gaming culture and development… Lara’s new avatar presents her as a more average figure, making her somewhat more emancipated than the… the irritatingly servile nature of wasp-waisted Elizabeth in Bioshock Infinite. It also, rather surprisingly, throws into sharp contrast some of the more offensive stereotypes in the recent game -- the bearlike Jonah and Alec Wiess, the drippy, lovelorn male geek whose physical representation is so archetypal that the same body actor plays an identical character called Marc in Telltale Games’ The Walking Dead (2012)…
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I greatly prefer the reboot series (especially TR2013 itself), so I hope it continues as such. This interview makes me more confident that it will.
 
Top Bottom