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[Coulomb_Barrier]

mind blown by were the story will take us.

I consider myself spoiled a bit too much.

Too bad mocap in VG are always so bad about arms...

No it's the necks. Or the head and the way it's connected to the neck. Game designers still can't get this right!

Still, that's a minor complaint.

 

[gadwn]

It works like a super dumbded down traditional adventure game. Player interaction in the sequence are the equivalent to hit play/pause in your DVD player.

Graphically looks great. but I'm gonna dish $60 for 10 hour movie. Rental or bargain bin this.

Some comments in this thread makes my head hurt.

Anyway, loved the trailer. And I loved Heavy Rain. This will be mine on day one.

 

[Persona86]

It works like a super dumbded down traditional adventure game. Player interaction in the sequence are the equivalent to hit play/pause in your DVD player.

Also Cage doesn't seem to take many risks with the plot here. In typical Hollywood fation, the 5'6'' 110 pound girl can measure up to 4 men at once. For example, in the bruning building sequence no hard desicions are presented to the player. We can't have the baby in the last floor die in the fire, no way.

Hopefuly it sales well enough, having high profile actors must have costed them a lot of money.

Ellen is 5'1"

The character she's playing is also not a normal girl, I'm gonna guess that her entity helps her with reflexes and predictions skills, that's why she can fight so well (not to mention all the training she's had since a child)

Spoiler

and oh yeah it's not like she's invincible, they killed her lol

Your judging a game without getting all the facts, let's just judge it after playing it.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Ellen is 5'1"

The character she's playing is also not a normal girl, I'm gonna guess that her entity helps her with reflexes and predictions skills, that's why she can fight so well (not to mention all the training she's had since a child)

Spoiler

and oh yeah it's not like she's invincible, they killed her lol

Your judging a game without getting all the facts, let's just judge it after playing it.

I'm judging the 30 minutes of video i saw, like everyone else is in this thread. Is a super diluted interactive experience, there's not much mental or motor participation from the user. Is good that this is atractive to you but it is what it is. No need to get defensive.

Also im wondering, why no precompute the scenes where the player has less control and up the image quality there. It wouldn't be much disconect because the game clearly takes a dive in detail in the user controlled parts.

Will tis have Move support? Or has Sony pretty much given up on the device?

 

[Persona86]

I'm judging the 30 minutes of video i saw, like everyone else is in this thread. Is a super diluted interactive experience, there's not much mental or motor participation from the user. Is good that this is atractive to you but it is what it is. No need to get defensive.

Also im wondering, why no precompute the scenes where the player has less control and opt the image quality there. It wouldn't be much disconect because the game clearly takes a dive in detail in the user controlled parts.

Will tis have Move support? Or has Sony pretty much given up on the device?

I'm not getting defensive, I'm just criticizing your comment like your criticizing this game.

I actually thought the fight scene was a bit silly, but your comment made me think and I realized that the entity most likely has a part in it, which explains it.

Move controller might work well, because a lot of the controls are with the right analog stick If I recall correctly.

 

[dragonbane]

No, I did look around the apartment. I just don't like it when the game controls itself or prompts you to follow a sequence of actions. It's like an advanced version of Dragon's Lair. I understand to have a story to flow and to create immersion sometimes you need to control the action but often I feel like David Cage and his team are constantly pulling the strings and just giving the player barely enough freedom to think they are playing a videogame. I should give the full game a chance so we'll see. Either way this new game looks more interesting.

Fair enough. I see it more as a modern adventure game and not Dragon's Lair.

It works like a super dumbded down traditional adventure game. Player interaction in the sequence are the equivalent to hit play/pause in your DVD player.

Also Cage doesn't seem to take many risks with the plot here. In typical Hollywood fation, the 5'6'' 110 pound girl can measure up to 4 men at once. For example, in the bruning building sequence no hard desicions are presented to the player. We can't have the baby in the last floor die in the fire, no way.

Hopefuly it sales well enough, having high profile actors must have costed them a lot of money.

You can switch to Aiden at almost any point. When you control Aiden you have complete control over him. In many sections like the beginning of the demo you have complete control over Jodie and you can walk straight past everything (like they did) and skip stuff or interact with your environment in many ways. This is much more interactive then just pressing Start/Stop on a DVD player.

The scene you watched is definitely one of the more directed ones that is true. There are other scenes however, like in the GameSpot Analysis Video, where the player has a lot more freedom and there are only very few cutscenes.

Also im wondering, why no precompute the scenes where the player has less control and opt the image quality there. It wouldn't be much disconect because the game clearly takes a dive in detail in the user controlled parts.

Because the game is too interactive? One scene has more cutscenes, another one might not use them at all. They can't precompute the walking parts, they can't precompute the dialogue choices, they can't precompute the Aiden parts, they can't precompute some of the non interactive parts, because you can still switch to Aiden and observe stuff in realtime. They can't precompute the fights and action scenes because they are interactive and they can't precompute the normal prompts.

The only thing they can precompute really are opening/closing/transition cutscenes. And sometimes they do exactly that to hide loading times.

But for everything else it is just not worth it. They would need to split everything in small chunks and precompute like 10000 of 10 second snippets. The image quality would change constantly and wouldn't be consistent. It would be more annoying.

 

[Hypron]

I imagine you have personally developed a ps3 game with better graphic to say that. Jeez how much hate this kinda of post, really. 'It's just trick' or so on, so why the others developers not use this holy trick for the sake of the graphic, no one will complain if a lot of more ps3 games would have the same graphic for those 'tricks'. In any case, it suffer of tons of tearing, I imagine they have extremely pushed the ps3 hardware to the limits, so it's not exactly matter to be only smarter with good tricks.

Oh don't give me that "you haven't made a game do you can't say anything about one" shit. If we did that neogaf wouldn't exist (or it would but only 10 people would be using it). The post I was replying to was basically saying the game looked better than anything else out there, and that the debs must have known stuff no one else did to make this possible. And this is simply not the case. Making any game on a closed platform is a matter of making compromises, Quantic dreams made some compromises that really fit the type of game was, by making some elements look better than the rest and concentrating on them. That doesn't mean their tech is better than other dev's. There are heaps of good looking PS3 games, but they just made some other compromises. The characters might not look as good, but the environments look better, or you might have a lot more freedom, etc... It doesn't mean their tech is inferior.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Fair enough. I see it more as a modern adventure game and not Dragon's Lair.

You can switch to Aiden at almost any point. When you control Aiden you have complete control over him. In many sections like the beginning of the demo you have complete control over Jodie and you can walk straight past everything (like they did) and skip stuff or interact with your environment in many ways. This is much more interactive then just pressing Start/Stop on a DVD player.

The scene you watched is definitely one of the more directed ones that is true. There are other scenes however, like in the GameSpot Analysis Video, where the player has a lot more freedom and there are only very few cutscenes.

Thanks, i'll check out later the gamespot video.

Because the game is too interactive? One scene has more cutscenes, another one might not use them at all. They can't precompute the walking parts, they can't precompute the dialogue choices, they can't precompute the Aiden parts, they can't precompute some of the non interactive parts, because you can still switch to Aiden and observe stuff in realtime. They can't precompute the fights and action scenes because they are interactive and they can't precompute the normal prompts.

The only thing they can precompute really are opening/closing/transition cutscenes. And sometimes they do exactly that to hide loading times.

But for everything else it is just not worth it. They would need to split everything in small chunks and precompute like 10000 of 10 second snippets. The image quality would change constantly and wouldn't be consistent. It would be more annoying.

Wow, i don't even know how you could even asume that i was sugesting something like that from my previous post, when it was quite clear. In the 30 minute video there was a vast amount of cinematic sequences where the player has zero interaction or control. But you have just admited yourself that they do precompute in some instances. That was what i was talking about.

Hahaha, you went overboard with the "They can't precompute the walking parts," XD

Oh don't give me that "you haven't made a game do you can't say anything about one" shit. If we did that neogaf wouldn't exist (or it would but only 10 people would be using it). The post I was replying to was basically saying the game looked better than anything else out there, and that the debs must have known stuff no one else did to make this possible. And this is simply not the case. Making any game on a closed platform is a matter of making compromises, Quantic dreams made some compromises that really fit the type of game was, by making some elements look better than the rest and concentrating on them. That doesn't mean their tech is better than other dev's. There are heaps of good looking PS3 games, but they just made some other compromises. The characters might not look as good, but the environments look better, or you might have a lot more freedom, etc... It doesn't mean their tech is inferior.

Well this is like the ultimate tech demo with some gameplay elements. I think it surpasses most of the realtime stuff Sony was presenting in the early days of the console or even some of the prerendered CG's at the unveil. Facial expresions are worlds apart.

 

[dragonbane]

Wow, i don't even know how you could even asume that i was sugesting something like that from my previous post, when it was quite clear. In the 30 minute video there was a vast amount of cinematic sequences where the player has zero interaction or control. But you have just admited yourself that they do precompute in some instances. That was what i was talking about.

Hahaha, you went overboard with the "They can't precompute the walking parts," XD

Sorry, I got a bit carried away there lol

I didn't watch the scene completely because of spoilers, but from what I heard they are still tweaking things, some parts were cut from the demo and they might add some more dialogue choices later to the parts that aren't that interactive at the moment.
They also tweak and change their camera angles and lighting on a daily basis. Precomputing everything every time after each change would be pretty annoying. If anything, they would do it right before release.

You also have to consider that we don't know when you can control Aiden and when not. They mentioned that in some non interactive scenes you can still switch to his perspective and watch the scene from a different angle, even when it looks like a cutscene is playing (think MGS 4 Mission Briefing).

 

[Certinty]

Looks good.

Will give it a rent or something when it comes out. Loved Heavy Rain!

 

[luca_29_bg]

Guys there's an hd version of the long gameplay section played at tribeca film festival?

 

[dragonbane]

YouTube top comment: "Meanwhile on X360, Pizza Hut app."

Goddamn lol. Console wars in full effect again.

Guys there's an hd version of the long gameplay section played at tribeca film festival?

Not yet. Sony might upload it tomorrow or something. But there is a HQ version of the trailer available on Gamersyde. Check OP!

 

[AniHawk]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-j3el7GP7vHg/UCbm2EKUB8I/AAAAAAAAK74/osfr67RQZDc/s1600/Jiyeon+T-ara+Dream+High+2+GIF+%25284%2529.gif[/\][/QUOTE]

good point, and well-made.

[quote="Replicant, post: 55913132"]Not necessarily. Depending on the intention of the design/art, a design piece can be tailored to be more attractive, so that it'd attract people or to be functional and easy to use or both. A jewellery, for example, is a piece of design that is only meant to be attractive. Its function is pretty similar so it doesn't get as much attention from functional POV. A website, is a piece of design that is more important to be functional than attractive but can also be both if the resources can accommodate such need.[/quote]

i have to assume that since you keep drawing comparisons from the the web design well, that you're a web designer. think of it this way, if a website was approached as being an art piece first, you might develop the backgrounds for your links, the images for your pages, and the logo without ever considering how they might interact with one another. approaching it from a design standpoint first, you would think about what [i]kind[/i] of artwork you need so that it best fits the background for your links, maybe even some nifty rollover detail, and how it interacts with all the other art and images on your page in the bigger picture. by doing that, you aid in the function of the design when you have the artwork being a part that embellishes it. if you had seemingly random pieces floating around with no strong relation to each other, it would hurt the readability and distract from the function of the website.[/quote]

[quote]That is all nice in theory but in practice a design doesn't always start with a structure. It often starts with a piece of music, then it develops into a drawing, etc. You are trying to constrain design into what you consider acceptable for you but it's not always the case. Not everything needs to be logical.[/quote]

well a lot of designers use thumbnail sketches to get their idea out on paper, but it's a lot of trial and error. it's evolution. you're trying to find out what's right. as a designer, you should be looking at everything and you should allow yourself to be inspired by anything. that is different than starting your design with a piece of music or a beautiful sunset. your design starts once you have an idea, and that's when you have to approach your work logically.

[quote]And I still don't see your point. Both bags are still functional as bags (aka things that people use to carry stuff). The 2nd one may not be as fancy as the 1st but it's still functional as a bag. To me, there is a place for both bags in the market. Whereas I get the impression that you were trying to use the bags as a metaphor for how one is more desirable than the other OR that there is only a place for one of them, which is not true.[/quote]

both bags are functional, but which one communicates the idea strongly? that was my point. you have one that is highly creative and plays on how a bag functions while still allowing a bag to function to communicate that this is something from a magic shop. and then you have something that is just pretty basic and works, but has artwork on it as its main draw. between the two, i would be more intrigued by the first one, and i think you would too.

[quote]Why don't you leave the designers to do what they want to do? This is what I'm so sick of these days: people who are not designers trying to tell designers what they should or should not be doing. If you want to be a designer, then be one but stop trying to tell the real designers what they can or can't do. I've seen cases where people tell me what to do but then they are horrified by the result they demanded. And all I can say is "Well, maybe next time you'll trust the designer, who actually gets paid because they know this stuff?" If you really think you are *that good* as a designer, then be one and show others how you can do better than them. But until then, let them do whatever they want to do.[/quote]

designers don't have room for ego. they are problem-solvers. this means that they work until a project is right. if you think your work is really that good, you need to explain to them don draper style, just why everything works and fits together as it should, and how it will help them as a client. usually this is a big, big no-no, and you should be exploring different avenues when presented to you. growing as a designer means listening to everything out there, even from non-designers, and learning from what works and what doesn't. you're only going to get better if you are consistently being challenged on ideas. and either they strengthen what you already know, so you are confident in certain things going forward, or you learn something new.

[quote]Well, here's the thing: life IS unfair. Yes, it sucks if Community got canceled but that's how things work. The mass audience are likely more interested in what Big Bang Theory is selling. But it also implies that there must be something about BBT that appeals to these people. Just because it doesn't appeal to you or me doesn't make it any less interesting for those people. You are going to be very disappointed if you want life to work exactly how you want it to be because it's not going to be.

When you're shitting on BBT, all you do as a fan of Community is building up resentment from fans of BBT, who could potentially be fans of Community as well. BUT because your attitude is such a turn-off, they'll probably think "Well, fuck that. I hope that favorite show of yours die a quick death". If you can't respect other people's taste and choices, then don't expect others to respect yours. Let alone expect them to back up your choices.[/QUOTE]

i've never really taken a shit on tbbt. i just don't like it. when people ask me if i watch it, i tell them i don't because it's on as the same time as community. then usually they say they've heard good things and they've been meaning to watch that.

on the plus side, there will be a fifth season of community, apparently, all because nbc couldn't develop any new shows.

 

[Hypereides]

Little Big Planet 3, The Last of Us, Beyond, Gran Turismo 6.



Have fun with opinions.

Wait what?

 

[luca_29_bg]

YouTube top comment: "Meanwhile on X360, Pizza Hut app."

Goddamn lol. Console wars in full effect again.



Not yet. Sony might upload it tomorrow or something. But there is a HQ version of the trailer available on Gamersyde. Check OP!

Thanks! ^^

 

[jWILL253]

The shitty analogies have ruined this thread for me.

How can anyone hate something like this? I mean, how?

 

[djshauny]

Love all of Quantic Dreams games. They have yet to make a bad game imo.

Beyond looks fantastic. Amazing they can achieve this with the old PS3 hardware.

 

[Ryuhza]

Wait what?

Ha, I wish!

 

[Replicant]

i have to assume that since you keep drawing comparisons from the the web design well, that you're a web designer. think of it this way, if a website was approached as being an art piece first, you might develop the backgrounds for your links, the images for your pages, and the logo without ever considering how they might interact with one another. approaching it from a design standpoint first, you would think about what kind of artwork you need so that it best fits the background for your links, maybe even some nifty rollover detail, and how it interacts with all the other art and images on your page in the bigger picture. by doing that, you aid in the function of the design when you have the artwork being a part that embellishes it. if you had seemingly random pieces floating around with no strong relation to each other, it would hurt the readability and distract from the function of the website.

Yes, but what's working for web design does not necessarily work for any other kind of design. I've done screen design as well and in those cases, it's the design/art that is more important than the functionality, which is the opposite of website design, where the navigation is far more important than the presentation.

well a lot of designers use thumbnail sketches to get their idea out on paper, but it's a lot of trial and error. it's evolution. you're trying to find out what's right. as a designer, you should be looking at everything and you should allow yourself to be inspired by anything. that is different than starting your design with a piece of music or a beautiful sunset. your design starts once you have an idea, and that's when you have to approach your work logically.

Not really. Not every designer works on large-scale project involving other designers/people. Sometimes it's just a small project and it starts organically by little things like inspired by music, having an idea about a character, having an idea about the kind of fonts you want to use, etc. Not every design has to have thumbnail sketches and have the big picture right from the start.

both bags are functional, but which one communicates the idea strongly? that was my point. you have one that is highly creative and plays on how a bag functions while still allowing a bag to function to communicate that this is something from a magic shop. and then you have something that is just pretty basic and works, but has artwork on it as its main draw. between the two, i would be more intrigued by the first one, and i think you would too.

Err, not really. They're equally interesting to me. And again, like other people here I'm confused as to what you're trying to communicate here in relation to games like Beyond/HR. It's a shitty analogy as someone else puts it.

designers don't have room for ego. they are problem-solvers. this means that they work until a project is right. if you think your work is really that good, you need to explain to them don draper style, just why everything works and fits together as it should, and how it will help them as a client. usually this is a big, big no-no, and you should be exploring different avenues when presented to you. growing as a designer means listening to everything out there, even from non-designers, and learning from what works and what doesn't. you're only going to get better if you are consistently being challenged on ideas. and either they strengthen what you already know, so you are confident in certain things going forward, or you learn something new.

That'd only work if you're being challenged by people who actually knows what they're talking about. Not from people who think they know how to design but actually have awful ideas that would look rancid in execution. It doesn't mean that you can't listen to their feedback and incorporate said feedback. But 9 out of 10 times, I'd trust the designers' instinct more than I'd trust a project manager when it comes to how a particular design project should look like. And again, it doesn't mean that having a dictator telling them what they can or can't design is what they need. Most designers strive to be diverse and design what they want to design. You want every designer to go your way or not at all, which is laughable tbh.

i've never really taken a shit on tbbt. i just don't like it. when people ask me if i watch it, i tell them i don't because it's on as the same time as community. then usually they say they've heard good things and they've been meaning to watch that.

on the plus side, there will be a fifth season of community, apparently, all because nbc couldn't develop any new shows.

Then surely you can do the same for games that you're not interested in. God knows I have little to no interest in FPS like COD but I don't go around to those threads and saying how those games are cancers to society and how every game should be more like the kind of games that I want to play.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

The more I see of this the more I pray for a PS4 version, looks superb

 

[AniHawk]

Yes, but what's working for web design does not necessarily work for any other kind of design. I've done screen design as well and in those cases, it's the design/art that is more important than the functionality, which is the opposite of website design, where the navigation is far more important than the presentation.

screen design? do you mean screen printing?

Not really. Not every designer works on large-scale project involving other designers/people. Sometimes it's just a small project and it starts organically by little things like inspired by music, having an idea about a character, having an idea about the kind of fonts you want to use, etc. Not every design has to have thumbnail sketches and have the big picture right from the start.

what you're describing is more of a formal approach to design. all that stuff will still need to fit together logically. the 'big picture right from the start' type of design is the conceptual approach. they strive for the same goal, using logic to make sense of every element, but the approach is opposite of each other. a conceptualist will use the big idea to inform the design decisions in the rest of the piece, while a formalist will use the elements to make something visually appealing despite a weak or lack of concept.

Err, not really. They're equally interesting to me. And again, like other people here I'm confused as to what you're trying to communicate here in relation to games like Beyond/HR. It's a shitty analogy as someone else puts it.

take the diner scene from indigo prophecy. you start off as a murderer and have to cover up the murder. then you play as the guys trying to catch the murderer. everything you did as the murderer plays into the initial investigation. that's high-concept compared to heavy rain's choose-your-own-story framework. and ultimately, it's more interesting because we've already seen heavy rain's style in a lot of games and books. what i'm suggesting is that david cage challenges himself and comes up with new interesting ways to take the genre instead of yet another choose-your-own-story.

the floating bag is a high-concept versus the standard one with a drawing on it. if i saw both on the street, i would at least do a double-take at the floating bag, while the other would barely register to me.

That'd only work if you're being challenged by people who actually knows what they're talking about. Not from people who think they know how to design but actually have awful ideas that would look rancid in execution. It doesn't mean that you can't listen to their feedback and incorporate said feedback. But 9 out of 10 times, I'd trust the designers' instinct more than I'd trust a project manager when it comes to how a particular design project should look like. And again, it doesn't mean that having a dictator telling them what they can or can't design is what they need. Most designers strive to be diverse and design what they want to design. You want every designer to go your way or not at all, which is laughable tbh.

i'm sorry, but you should be fishing for that 1 time out of 10 feedback enhances your work. it's super important not to just learn from other designers, but people with other perspectives. to me it sounds like you only listen to a very limited group of people, which can only limit your own work as a result.

Then surely you can do the same for games that you're not interested in. God knows I have little to no interest in FPS like COD but I don't go around to those threads and saying how those games are cancers to society and how every game should be more like the kind of games that I want to play.

i offered my thoughts on david cage's design based off the trailer for this new game and the stuff from him i've played in the past. he's shown some level of creativity before, and it's disappointing that he's regressed into something so safe and boring.

 

[Replicant]

screen design? do you mean screen printing?

Nope. TV/film idents. Opening titles, etc.

what you're describing is more of a formal approach to design. all that stuff will still need to fit together logically. the 'big picture right from the start' type of design is the conceptual approach. they strive for the same goal, using logic to make sense of every element, but the approach is opposite of each other. a conceptualist will use the big idea to inform the design decisions in the rest of the piece, while a formalist will use the elements to make something visually appealing despite a weak or lack of concept.

What I'm saying is, that kind of rigid design method does not always fit every designer. And it's not always being used by every designer, especially those who work on individual level instead of group project. Granted, the bigger the project, the more important it is to have basic clarity of what you want to do. But often, the more original and interesting projects do not come from pre-planning stuff. It often comes from burst of original idea based on elements that they saw last night at an exhibition, for example.

take the diner scene from indigo prophecy. you start off as a murderer and have to cover up the murder. then you play as the guys trying to catch the murderer. everything you did as the murderer plays into the initial investigation. that's high-concept compared to heavy rain's choose-your-own-story framework. and ultimately, it's more interesting because we've already seen heavy rain's style in a lot of games and books. what i'm suggesting is that david cage challenges himself and comes up with new interesting ways to take the genre instead of yet another choose-your-own-story.

I don't see how one is more challenging than others. The scenario you describe in Indigo is just a variation of what a character normally do, except this time you do it in the name of crime. I really enjoyed Heavy Rain's choose your own story framework lack originality aside. To me originality is not the be end and all end of interesting games. If the game can entertain me within the limit of its framework, then it's a good game. I love how Heavy Rain basically question me whether I want to play the game as myself, thus following my code of conduct. OR playing it as Ethan, thus doing whatever he desperately need to gain clues to find his son. Those are two conflicting things. And at the same time it's enjoyable because there were times when I use my morality to shape the kind of person I want Ethan to be, even if it's not realistic.

Besides, I haven't seen that many choose your own story games lately. If anything, Bioshock Infinite, for example, can do with a little bit of 'choose your own fate'. Can you at least name 5 recent games that uses a choose your own story mechanic?

the floating bag is a high-concept versus the standard one with a drawing on it. if i saw both on the street, i would at least do a double-take at the floating bag, while the other would barely register to me.

Again, you need to tie this up with the game we're talking about for people to understand what you're trying to achieve with this narrative.

i'm sorry, but you should be fishing for that 1 time out of 10 feedback enhances your work. it's super important not to just learn from other designers, but people with other perspectives. to me it sounds like you only listen to a very limited group of people, which can only limit your own work as a result.

It works fine for me in the past 12 years. I got the clients that I want and I got the money and job that I want to pursue. Of course I do ask for suggestions but I filter that to suit my need and not letting others dictate what I can or can't do. Thankfully none of my clients are the kind that you often find on "Clients from Hell" tumblr site.

i offered my thoughts on david cage's design based off the trailer for this new game and the stuff from him i've played in the past. he's shown some level of creativity before, and it's disappointing that he's regressed into something so safe and boring.

We haven't even seen this game! It's like every.single.time a QD game about to come out, there's always someone whinging about how this game will suck, it won't be what they want, etc, etc. It happened with HR and not surprisingly it happens again with Beyond. And again, if something offends you that much, why do you keep coming back to it? I just can't understand the rationale behind it. It's not like what you say will influence what David will do in the future. And for every person who complains about his work, there's likely going to be another person who likes it. If you're really that passionate about him doing something a bit more challenging, why not write a personal letter to Quantic Dream, stating what you've told us thus far?

 

[shinobi602]

Kind of bummed the game is only 10 hours. With how long they've been working on it and the massive script I would've thought it was more around 15 hrs.

 

[Dynamite Ringo Matsuri]

Kind of bummed the game is only 10 hours. With how long they've been working on it and the massive script I would've thought it was more around 15 hrs.

Has this been confirmed? Didn't Cage say it was longer than HR? And I think it's all in the journey anyhow. An elapsed 15 year timeline can feel longer than the several day timeline of HR. In any case, it certainly seems to be far larger in scope

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Kind of bummed the game is only 10 hours. With how long they've been working on it and the massive script I would've thought it was more around 15 hrs.

Multiple paths man. Dat replayability.

Unless that includes all endings ect.

 

[shinobi602]

Has this been confirmed? Didn't Cage say it was longer than HR? And I think it's all in the journey anyhow. An elapsed 15 year timeline can feel longer than the several day timeline of HR. In any case, it certainly seems to be far larger in scope

Yea confirmed: http://www.gamespot.com/news/beyond-two-souls-spans-10-hours-6407633

Hopefully they're an amazing 10 hours.

 

[Dynamite Ringo Matsuri]

Yea confirmed: http://www.gamespot.com/news/beyond-two-souls-spans-10-hours-6407633

Hopefully they're an amazing 10 hours.

The consistency of acting coupled with the fidelity of mo-cap ensures that it will at the very least, not be anywhere near as immersion breaking as HR is prone to being. And I'm sure Cage has a bunch of kooky hair raising situations cooked up. I think Ellen Page is a reasonably intelligent young woman. She's in a place in her career where she's in high demand and likely has the lion's choice in terms of which projects she can pursue. If she says that the journey is mind blowing from a scripting standpoint and that her character was a strong one, then I'd like to believe the sincerity of her claim. It doesn't look like she's phoning in her performances in any case.

 

[Tripolygon]

Yea confirmed: http://www.gamespot.com/news/beyond-two-souls-spans-10-hours-6407633

Hopefully they're an amazing 10 hours.

.

Multiple paths man. Dat replayability.

Unless that includes all endings ect.

 

[AniHawk]

Nope. TV/film idents. Opening titles, etc.

ah, gotcha.

What I'm saying is, that kind of rigid design method does not always fit every designer. And it's not always being used by every designer, especially those who work on individual level instead of group project. Granted, the bigger the project, the more important it is to have basic clarity of what you want to do. But often, the more original and interesting projects do not come from pre-planning stuff. It often comes from burst of original idea based on elements that they saw last night at an exhibition, for example.

i don't think it's a very rigid type of design, myself. i just think those are the two categories you naturally fall into when you start designing something, whether you realize it or not. the big idea stuff usually comes from an epiphany as you suggest, and it's super easy to just lay everything in since it all makes sense.

I don't see how one is more challenging than others. The scenario you describe in Indigo is just a variation of what a character normally do, except this time you do it in the name of crime.

it's a very different process. in most games where you have choice, it's up to you to decide for a character what to do, and that's the only bearing on the outcome of the game. what indigo prophecy hinted at was another dimension added, so you're at odds with intentionally covering up your tracks to evade the police, or if you want them to catch this weird murderer. it was an interesting idea that was never explored in the rest of the game.

I really enjoyed Heavy Rain's choose your own story framework lack originality aside. To me originality is not the be end and all end of interesting games. If the game can entertain me within the limit of its framework, then it's a good game. I love how Heavy Rain basically question me whether I want to play the game as myself, thus following my code of conduct. OR playing it as Ethan, thus doing whatever he desperately need to gain clues to find his son. Those are two conflicting things. And at the same time it's enjoyable because there were times when I use my morality to shape the kind of person I want Ethan to be, even if it's not realistic.

i can see what you're getting at. to bring in another genre, i can compare rayman origins and mirror's edge. both are platformers, and both do their own incredibly different thing. mirror's edge is a very experimental take on the genre, while rayman origins is a pretty straightforward platformer, albeit superbly refined. for me, it's harder and harder to appreciate platformers, since i've been playing them for over 20 years, and it's more difficult to surprise me. something like mirror's edge is immediately more satisfying due to its originality, while rayman origins is pleasing due to how good the level design is despite being something so familiar.

when i play heavy rain, it's more like rayman origins, except while being familiar, i also am not engaged in what is happening. that is more of a product of the script, acting, and other elements of the presentation. however with a good enough concept, i might be able to overlook such things.

Besides, I haven't seen that many choose your own story games lately. If anything, Bioshock Infinite, for example, can do with a little bit of 'choose your own fate'. Can you at least name 5 recent games that uses a choose your own story mechanic?

i will go back two years:

the walking dead
virtue's last reward
mass effect 3
the witcher 2
call of duty: black ops 2
deus ex: human revolution
skyrim
star wars: the old republic
dishonored

there are probably more, as i am not aware of some psp/vita/ios/pc games

Again, you need to tie this up with the game we're talking about for people to understand what you're trying to achieve with this narrative.

interesting and fresh takes on things deserve attention more than standard ones.

It works fine for me in the past 12 years. I got the clients that I want and I got the money and job that I want to pursue. Of course I do ask for suggestions but I filter that to suit my need and not letting others dictate what I can or can't do. Thankfully none of my clients are the kind that you often find on "Clients from Hell" tumblr site.

well i suppose that's good it's working for you.

We haven't even seen this game! It's like every.single.time a QD game about to come out, there's always someone whinging about how this game will suck, it won't be what they want, etc, etc. It happened with HR and not surprisingly it happens again with Beyond. And again, if something offends you that much, why do you keep coming back to it? I just can't understand the rationale behind it. It's not like what you say will influence what David will do in the future. And for every person who complains about his work, there's likely going to be another person who likes it. If you're really that passionate about him doing something a bit more challenging, why not write a personal letter to Quantic Dream, stating what you've told us thus far?

heavy rain was a game i bought the ps3 for. it's one of the only games i've paid full price at $60 this generation. i was very interested in the title ever since it had been announced. i figured cage would take the lessons learned from indigo prophecy and fix them in a game he had four years to work on. now, i don't know if he'll ever learn. i still am kinda interested in beyond, otherwise i wouldn't be in this thread. it's sort of a morbid curiosity though.

 

[Replicant]

i don't think it's a very rigid type of design, myself. i just think those are the two categories you naturally fall into when you start designing something, whether you realize it or not. the big idea stuff usually comes from an epiphany as you suggest, and it's super easy to just lay everything in since it all makes sense.

I never really got into that kind of method design. The only exception to this was when I collaborated with other designers then yeah, it makes sense to do it. The layout that I have is I usually have inside my head. I usually start with "Oh, I like that pattern I saw yesterday, let's see if it'd work for this project", and so on.

it's a very different process. in most games where you have choice, it's up to you to decide for a character what to do, and that's the only bearing on the outcome of the game. what indigo prophecy hinted at was another dimension added, so you're at odds with intentionally covering up your tracks to evade the police, or if you want them to catch this weird murderer. it was an interesting idea that was never explored in the rest of the game.

Doesn't that kind of covered by that character's arc on "Heavy Rain"? Granted, it's not voluntarily because the game auto-forced you to complete that character's mission but technically with IP, if you don't cover up your tracks, you'd get caught by the police and the game would have ended, right? In other words, it's not like there was that much choice in the first place for you as a gamer.

i can see what you're getting at. to bring in another genre, i can compare rayman origins and mirror's edge. both are platformers, and both do their own incredibly different thing. mirror's edge is a very experimental take on the genre, while rayman origins is a pretty straightforward platformer, albeit superbly refined. for me, it's harder and harder to appreciate platformers, since i've been playing them for over 20 years, and it's more difficult to surprise me. something like mirror's edge is immediately more satisfying due to its originality, while rayman origins is pleasing due to how good the level design is despite being something so familiar. when i play heavy rain, it's more like rayman origins, except while being familiar, i also am not engaged in what is happening. that is more of a product of the script, acting, and other elements of the presentation. however with a good enough concept, i might be able to overlook such things.

I guess that's where I differ from you. I am now 37 years old and despite have been playing games since I was 10, I don't actively try to like a specific genre and looking for one game that is more original than before to impress me. I just look at the game being offered and if I feel that it may appeal to me then I'd buy it. I think I'd grow extremely frustrated and become disenchanted with gaming if I am that critical. Because let's face it, while we have our preferences, the market is mostly determined by what's popular with the mass audience. I think I'd go nuts if I'm obsessing how more and more games seem pre-occupied with FPS. In the past, I basically just avoided games that I didn't like. Lately, however, I made an attempt to play them (thus, Bioshock Infinite) and much to my surprise, I like it. I think that wouldn't have happened if I didn't take an easier POV on what's being on offered as games lately.

Sure, it's good to have ideals and wanting something really good. But at the end of the day, I think you'd be extremely frustrated at the industry if you keep looking for something that is really, really original instead of just enjoying what's on offer and pick and choose the one that well, least offend you. That doesn't mean I don't want better product. For example, I obviously enjoy Beyond's much improved voice-acting and dialogue. But I wasn't exactly stressing out about HR's VA and dialogue because I didn't think it was that bad. It'd take something as bad as Star Ocean 4 for me to cringe at the game. In that case, I just sell the game and buy something else. I guess I'm just more laidback that way.

i will go back two years:

the walking dead
virtue's last reward
mass effect 3
the witcher 2
call of duty: black ops 2
deus ex: human revolution
skyrim
star wars: the old republic
dishonored

Never played,
never played,
true,
never played,
not fond of FPS,
I don't think it's a choose your own story game except for the ending,
never played (hate dungeons/dragons type of game),
never played (hate star wars related games),
not fond of FPS.

Mass Effect 3 is probably the closest to choose your own story and I love that too, well, ending notwithstanding. On that note, I guess I can understand your frustration about the story not being up to your expectation. But that was probably one of the rare circumstance where I was *really* upset at a game's storyline. Maybe because it spanned over 3 games and I got overly invested with the characters. Whereas with individual game i can just shrug it off and go "Oh well, what's next then?".

heavy rain was a game i bought the ps3 for. it's one of the only games i've paid full price at $60 this generation. i was very interested in the title ever since it had been announced. i figured cage would take the lessons learned from indigo prophecy and fix them in a game he had four years to work on. now, i don't know if he'll ever learn. i still am kinda interested in beyond, otherwise i wouldn't be in this thread. it's sort of a morbid curiosity though.

Well, hopefully you get more out of Beyond but I honestly love Heavy Rain and feel that it was definitely one of the highlights of this gen's offerings for me.

 

[ThisWreckage]

David Cage is important to the industry because his games encourage criticism and discussion at the same time. I don't think anyone has compared to his games to Citizen Kane, but at the same time his games are a unique experience. Sony should definitely make a run at Quantic Dream and I can't believe the ire this guy's games attracts.

 

[AniHawk]

Doesn't that kind of covered by that character's arc on "Heavy Rain"? Granted, it's not voluntarily because the game auto-forced you to complete that character's mission but technically with IP, if you don't cover up your tracks, you'd get caught by the police and the game would have ended, right? In other words, it's not like there was that much choice in the first place for you as a gamer.

well indigo prophecy hinted at more control over more aspects of the story. that's what interested me. we haven't seen a game quite like that before. do you catch the criminal? do you try to get away? how does your bias playing both characters factor into your decision-making? that would be a neat area to explore.

heavy rain rarely plays with convention, but there is a moment where you have to wipe fingerprints off all the shit shelby and lauren touched. that was probably the most clever twist on an old tale since you had no idea it was coming. it still doesn't quite work because the story itself relies on you knowing certain information the character knows, but it was a real standout moment in the game. i think that, and madison sneaking into the guy's house are the only parts of the game that show how seemingly inconsequential things can have big consequences. the madison scene devolves pretty quickly into stupidity though.

I guess that's where I differ from you. I am now 37 years old and despite have been playing games since I was 10, I don't actively try to like a specific genre and looking for one game that is more original than before to impress me. I just look at the game being offered and if I feel that it may appeal to me then I'd buy it. I think I'd grow extremely frustrated and become disenchanted with gaming if I am that critical. Because let's face it, while we have our preferences, the market is mostly determined by what's popular with the mass audience. I think I'd go nuts if I'm obsessing how more and more games seem pre-occupied with FPS. In the past, I basically just avoided games that I didn't like. Lately, however, I made an attempt to play them (thus, Bioshock Infinite) and much to my surprise, I like it. I think that wouldn't have happened if I didn't take an easier POV on what's being on offered as games lately.

i like platformers as a genre because they're games that are made with a clear challenge by a level and game designer. so it's like you're constantly trying to overcome obstacle after obstacle. i can have fun with all kinds without looking for one to wow me, but when one does wow me, it's because it's usually thanks to refined, impressive level design, or something i have never experienced before.

Sure, it's good to have ideals and wanting something really good. But at the end of the day, I think you'd be extremely frustrated at the industry if you keep looking for something that is really, really original instead of just enjoying what's on offer and pick and choose the one that well, least offend you. That doesn't mean I don't want better product. For example, I obviously enjoy Beyond's much improved voice-acting and dialogue. But I wasn't exactly stressing out about HR's VA and dialogue because I didn't think it was that bad. It'd take something as bad as Star Ocean 4 for me to cringe at the game. In that case, I just sell the game and buy something else. I guess I'm just more laidback that way.

i actually enjoyed my time with heavy rain because i found it unintentionally funny. it was like watching a bad movie. i genuinely enjoy whoever did naman jaden's voice. it's so strange and yet, so fitting for the character. i only roll my eyes at heavy rain whenever it gets held up as some sort of gaming masterpiece, when it doesn't have much going for it. and honestly, i think i enjoyed it more than the walking dead, which had a much better script and voice acting, but was even simpler on the design side of things. and the walking dead was considered by many to be last year's best game when the things it won for were the things that had to deal with it being a game the least.

Never played,
never played,
true,
never played,
not fond of FPS,
I don't think it's a choose your own story game except for the ending,
never played (hate dungeons/dragons type of game),
never played (hate star wars related games),
not fond of FPS.

not of those are all strictly choose-your-own-story games as much as they have those elements strongly featured in the game. even fire emblem: awakening is highly customized to fit certain choices you make, although the game plays out the same for the most part. virtue's last reward and 999 are visual novels where a lot of the time is spent cycling through the story, but each one plays with the conventions and expectations of a choose-your-own-story game. both of those games are actually pretty linear, but unlike the walking dead, that's the point.

Mass Effect 3 is probably the closest to choose your own story and I love that too, well, ending notwithstanding. On that note, I guess I can understand your frustration about the story not being up to your expectation. But that was probably one of the rare circumstance where I was *really* upset at a game's storyline. Maybe because it spanned over 3 games and I got overly invested with the characters. Whereas with individual game i can just shrug it off and go "Oh well, what's next then?".

yeah, the worst part of mass effect 3's endings is how everything you did in three games never comes together at all, and instead of it taking a variety of decisions into account for its ending, you choose one of three things to completely override every choice you made in the series.

 

[Replicant]

well indigo prophecy hinted at more control over more aspects of the story. that's what interested me. we haven't seen a game quite like that before. do you catch the criminal? do you try to get away? how does your bias playing both characters factor into your decision-making? that would be a neat area to explore.

I see. So the game is playable from both characters POV and they clash in intent? I guess it was a bit like Ethan and Jayden before Jayden goes pro-Ethan.

heavy rain rarely plays with convention, but there is a moment where you have to wipe fingerprints off all the shit shelby and lauren touched. that was probably the most clever twist on an old tale since you had no idea it was coming. it still doesn't quite work because the story itself relies on you knowing certain information the character knows, but it was a real standout moment in the game. i think that, and madison sneaking into the guy's house are the only parts of the game that show how seemingly inconsequential things can have big consequences. the madison scene devolves pretty quickly into stupidity though.

I like that part because it looks kind of shady and that was actually the point where I started to suspect Shelby because why can't he just wait for the police and admit that they were there?

What do you mean by Madison's part descend into stupidity? I assume it's the Doctor's house and not the Taxidermist, right? You don't like that the doctor turns out to be a psycho? I thought that was one of the more exciting and genuinely tense moment in the game.

i like platformers as a genre because they're games that are made with a clear challenge by a level and game designer. so it's like you're constantly trying to overcome obstacle after obstacle. i can have fun with all kinds without looking for one to wow me, but when one does wow me, it's because it's usually thanks to refined, impressive level design, or something i have never experienced before.

Interesting. I've given up on platformers a long time ago. I just find that they are usually too repetitive for me. And I hate how the level design always end up being variations of: ice, fire, wind, etc. I knew a long time ago that I am not fond of them anymore and haven't bothered looking even for one that can wow me.

i actually enjoyed my time with heavy rain because i found it unintentionally funny. it was like watching a bad movie. i genuinely enjoy whoever did naman jaden's voice. it's so strange and yet, so fitting for the character. i only roll my eyes at heavy rain whenever it gets held up as some sort of gaming masterpiece, when it doesn't have much going for it. and honestly, i think i enjoyed it more than the walking dead, which had a much better script and voice acting, but was even simpler on the design side of things. and the walking dead was considered by many to be last year's best game when the things it won for were the things that had to deal with it being a game the least.

I don't think it's a gaming masterpiece but to me it was an exciting experience. It was a genuinely tense experience that I rarely get from games and one of the few games that I can play while my friends are around. It also did the atmosphere rather well. The rain that falls over really great at setting the noir-ish mood. Also, characters are everything to me. Get me invested in the characters and you won me over. Heavy Rain basically managed to make me care about Ethan, Jayden, and to an extent Madison. I don't want harm to come into them and that pretty much got me invested in the game.

 

[AniHawk]

I see. So the game is playable from both characters POV and they clash in intent? I guess it was a bit like Ethan and Jayden before Jayden goes pro-Ethan.

well at the start of indigo prophecy, that is the case. you play as the officer trying to catch the murderer, who you also play as (and he's trying to evade the officer). i mean, you could try and just blame murderer for everything because that's what you know as the game player, but the character wouldn't have the evidence they need. then how would that affect the officer and their ability to handle the case? it's trickier than the standard choices you make in other games of this sort.

What do you mean by Madison's part descend into stupidity? I assume it's the Doctor's house and not the Taxidermist, right? You don't like that the doctor turns out to be a psycho? I thought that was one of the more exciting and genuinely tense moment in the game.

any one part where a guy tries to kill madison was kinda dumb cartoony stuff. why didn't the doctor just give her a really heavy drug? that's not the part i was referring to though. i was thinking about the taxidermist and how he chases you out of the house with a chainsaw as you start a motorcycle in a suburban neighborhood in broad fucking daylight.

Interesting. I've given up on platformers a long time ago. I just find that they are usually too repetitive for me. And I hate how the level design always end up being variations of: ice, fire, wind, etc. I knew a long time ago that I am not fond of them anymore and haven't bothered looking even for one that can wow me.

well i don't know if you don't like first-person games because it makes you nauseous (which happens to plenty of people), or if it's because you're tired of first-person shooters, but mirror's edge (and its dlc) is a pretty fresh take on the genre. first-person view, momentum-based platforming in a somewhat real world (it's some sort of dystopian future, but the platforming is done off of pretty normal things). the best part is, what you think is actually the best route most likely is not. there are time trials that challenge you to think outside the box. what appear to be obstacles for you to overcome are simply red herrings to distract you from the actual quickest path.

this generation has been pretty damn good for the genre. not a whole lot falls into the classic elemental-based level design in many of the games, either.

 

[Replicant]

any one part where a guy tries to kill madison was kinda dumb cartoony stuff. why didn't the doctor just give her a really heavy drug? that's not the part i was referring to though. i was thinking about the taxidermist and how he chases you out of the house with a chainsaw as you start a motorcycle in a suburban neighborhood in broad fucking daylight.

But then there wouldn't be a game if he had given her really heavy drug. And since he's a psycho who gets off on torturing his victims while they are alive, it wouldn't make sense for him to knock her out cold. I mean I think you have to go into this kind of game with the mindset that this is like one of those Hollywood horror films. Yes, it's a bit unlikely but I don't think games like this should strive for 100% accuracy either. That part you mentioned actually reminded me of Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

If one can go into something like Mario, Uncharted or Bioshock Infinite and accepts that the game is a game even if it's framed within some realistic contraption, I don't understand why we can't do the same for games like HR/Beyond. At the end of the day, the game wants the player to experience something fun/exciting and I don't mind if it comes at the expense of little realism. And if you see from realistic POV, well, we don't really know what a psycho will do IRL since we're not one. I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that in the heat of anger that his prey managed to run away the psycho lost control of his calm and started running around with a chainsaw like the psycho that he is.

well i don't know if you don't like first-person games because it makes you nauseous (which happens to plenty of people), or if it's because you're tired of first-person shooters, but mirror's edge (and its dlc) is a pretty fresh take on the genre. first-person view, momentum-based platforming in a somewhat real world (it's some sort of dystopian future, but the platforming is done off of pretty normal things). the best part is, what you think is actually the best route most likely is not. there are time trials that challenge you to think outside the box. what appear to be obstacles for you to overcome are simply red herrings to distract you from the actual quickest path.

The headache is part of the reason. The other reason is that I'm not fond of not being able to see what's around me. IRL, even if you don't turn 180 degrees, you pretty much have awareness of what's on your left and right side. Back is a bit hard but I believe there's some kind of 6th sense that most people have when they feel that someone is watching them/following them. In FPS games, these abilities are eliminated. I have to turn around and round just to see everything around me. I find it annoying and well, headache-inducing. Bioshock Infinite was my 2nd FPS I ever completed.

 

[dragonbane]

Kind of bummed the game is only 10 hours. With how long they've been working on it and the massive script I would've thought it was more around 15 hrs.

This is conflicting with the lead gameplay designer saying it clocks in around the 12-15 hour mark depending on your choices: http://www.vg247.com/2013/03/21/beyond-two-souls-longer-than-heavy-rain-lasts-12-15-hours/

Cage also said Heavy Rain is around 7 hours and it was closer to 10 hours for me. He simply doesn't like long games and therefore mostly mentions the lowest figure, since it is something positive to him. So maybe that's why he said it.

If you rush through the game, 10 hours should be easily possible, but if you take your time to explore and interact with everything I'm pretty sure you can get at least 12 hours out of it. They rushed through the Homeless section and it still took 35 minutes and they even cut stuff out. You can get one hour out of that scene alone probably. And think about the free-roaming desert section. I will take my sweet ass time to explore every corner there.

any one part where a guy tries to kill madison was kinda dumb cartoony stuff. why didn't the doctor just give her a really heavy drug? that's not the part i was referring to though. i was thinking about the taxidermist and how he chases you out of the house with a chainsaw as you start a motorcycle in a suburban neighborhood in broad fucking daylight.

To be fair that was intentional stupid and cartoony. You can not tell me that this is meant to be taking seriously with a straight face: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln9rdUhvpME#t=6m23s

 

[Persona86]

Kind of bummed the game is only 10 hours. With how long they've been working on it and the massive script I would've thought it was more around 15 hrs.

Some people will skip a lot of parts and some people will try to explore every corner, so it might be 15 hours for you.

You have to remember that overall there's probably more than 40 hours of experiences (I have no idea, just a guess) They say 10 hours for one play through, other people will experiences different outcomes and an ending. So it would be fun to do another play through a few months later.

 

[Persona86]

Can you imagine a new interactive story game with this production value designed for "Oculus Rift" I think I would faint haha.

 

[Clear]

That 30 min preview... WOW.

Shows huge improvement on Heavy Rain in every aspect. Day #1 for me now. No doubt.

 

[DieH@rd]

I watched it all and don't consider myself spoiled at all. Pretty low level stuff being shown, unless the game is 4 hours long lol

Its 10h long.

 

[Fjordson]

I'm starting to get excited for this after that trailer and watching some of the footage they showed off at Tribeca.

I had issues with Heavy Rain, but this looks really interesting. The voice acting and performances in general seem leagues better. More specificially, I'm a little surprised by how well Ellen Page works as the main character. Thought it was an odd choice when she was first revealed to be involved.