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New Uncharted 4 Amy Hennig details emerge and departure from Naughty Dog

zsynqx

Member
Probably a romantic dinner that ended with both of them dancing.
Man, that would've been nice lol.
Or maybe they just danced instead of playing
Crash.

They actually did try to implement the dance mini game into that scene, before they came up with the
Crash idea
, but felt it didn't fit.
 

Alienous

Member
I can't understand how you can look at any of these changes and think "yeah this would have been better". "Sam was your brother all along" is a horrible twist with no purpose, significant amount of vehicle sections sounds terrible, the dancing mini game sounds pointless.

"Sam was your brother all along" is interesting. It doesn't seem like it would come as a revelation to Drake, but to the player, and that would play into the fact that he hasn't mentioned him in any of the past games. You'd feel lied to, and unfamiliar with Drake, just like his friends would.

And the dancing mini-game sounds pretty fun - perhaps not in the gameplay sense, but the idea of Nathan and Elena dancing to edge their way closer to an artifact sounds entertaining.
 
"Sam was a horrible, terrible older brother all along right to the end with no redeemable qualities" is a horrible character with no purpose, significant amount of climbing and walking sections are terrible, the fake shooting in attic/Crash Bandicoot level/
completly made up 2nd jailbreak shortly after the first
is pointless. Elena being a great character made the first 3 great and not sidelined and treated horribly by her husband under the influence of his lying, horrible brother. The final game has many flaws.

FTFY

It's called preference and opinions.
 
I prefer what we got. Sam and Nathan's care for each other, even after Sam was left in jail, was really endearing. Having them be enemies would have been kind of lame. All in all though, the game probably would have been pretty similar to what we got.
 

Koozek

Member
elena2.gif
61651813-abde-41bd-8e74-2534ca8948c4.gif


Something like this with qte prompts
7OhgvR3.gif
 

joms5

Member
I can't understand how you can look at any of these changes and think "yeah this would have been better". "Sam was your brother all along" is a horrible twist with no purpose, significant amount of vehicle sections sounds terrible, the dancing mini game sounds pointless. Elena coming in near the end of the game allows for Drake's "one last job, can't quit" arc to have weight. This proposed game sounds comically bad.

I never said I liked any of the gameplay ideas. But the story is much more plausible. Sam was a scumbag of a brother and Nate helping such a piece of shit over his wife who seemed to be way too good for Nate in this entry wasn't believable at all.

Sam wasn't supposed to be a likeable character. And this is proof that he was supposed to be unliked. He was initially the villain.

And it's funny you say "Sam was your brother all along" is a horrible twist with no purpose but that "Hey I had a brother that i've never mentioned all theses years and my last name isn't actually Drake" is much better right?

Not to mention we actually don't know how that reveal would have been handled. But there is proof that she has the capability of writing good characters and interesting plots given the previous 3 games she had a hand in creating.
 

vpance

Member
The book also explain some of the reason why they ditch some of Hennig version of uncharted. They had prototype for a more deeper climbing mechanic and you can even have prototype where you can aim where to throw your grappling hook. Ultimately Straley decided that those deeper mechanic while interesting in isolation, didn't really work when you're in dynamic combat situation. During the frantic combat, you want stuff like climbing and swinging to be as simple as possible.

The same with dance sequence. It's basically a mini game that only used once for that scene only, it's out of place from the rest of the game and Straley hate that kind of thing, he once mentioned it before in one of ND documentary when he's talking about Jak 2.

In the end, I'm happy with yhe Uncharted 4 that we got

Straley messed up. The loads of boring climbing and frantic combat were the low points of U4.
 
I prefer what we got. Sam and Nathan's care for each other, even after Sam was left in jail, was really endearing. Having them be enemies would have been kind of lame. All in all though, the game probably would have been pretty similar to what we got.
They care for eachother because that's the way the story was wrote. The whole random brother thing was lame in the first place imo. I would have assumed the story would have been geared towards nate sacrificing his brothers life for the betterment of his own or something.
 
Wow, I totally forgot about that trailer. I do like the idea of shooting into the walls to create the handholds. It's always amusing how out in the middle of nowhere there are always a perfect sequence of places to grip in cliffsides and any other object or formation you conveniently need to traverse. I feel like ND's push for realism is often at odds with game design, and can easily kill suspension of disbelief.
 
This is interesting to hear after the angle I kept hearing that the TLOU directors ruined Uncharted with less combat encounters.

I used to dream about what Uncharted 4 would have been like under someone else but it sounds even worse than what we got(Which I thought was good but not great)
 
D

Deleted member 471617

Unconfirmed Member
- No gun combat for half the game, vehicle based (Unkarted was a reality)
- Huge emphasis on melee combat
- No mechanic you shoot at walls and use that to climb
- New boost mechanic
- Dance Dance mini game
- Elena would have been with Drake for the first half of the game on his adventure
- No Nadine

- Negative. Half the game without any shootouts and more than likely no action sequences. UGH.
- Positive. Have no problem with a heavy emphasis on melee combat but once you get overwhelmed, you should be able to transition into a shootout.
- Negative. What happens if in the first half of the game, you need to climb but can't because you're out of ammo? Also, depending on the gun/bullet, it wouldn't necessary make a hole big enough for you to use as a grip and thus, be able to climb.
- Negative. Just UGH.
- Negative. WTF?
- Negative. Either way, Elena became a bore after Uncharted 3 so no matter how she was implemented in U4, it was going to be a negative for me.
- Positive. Good strong character but horribly misused, horrible "exit" and quite honestly, could not even exist in the game and it would literally make no difference whatsoever.

Also, Rafe is a rich motherfucker so why even hire Shoreline to begin with? Could just hire his own army where he runs it instead of co-running it with Nadine. Just too many flaws and negatives in Uncharted 4. Like so many gaming franchises, Uncharted overstayed it's welcome in the main franchise and should have officially ended with Uncharted 3. With that said though, the biggest positive to come out of Uncharted 4 was The Lost Legacy which is fucking awesome so it's a trade that im more than happy to accept.

Thankfully, those gameplay elements were eliminated or never implemented. The only change that I would have wanted to see was Sam being the villain and the original story but with all the gameplay of Uncharted 4.

Oh well, it all is what it is. Thankfully and hopefully, out of the disappointment that was Uncharted 4, a new trilogy can hopefully become a reality with Chloe and The Lost Legacy.
 

NYR94

Member
Her version doesn't sound any better than what we got from druckmann and straley. I'm happy with uc4 the way it is.
 
Straley messed up. The loads of boring climbing and frantic combat were the low points of U4.
Well I disagree on combat. I think it has the best combat in the series, I actually wish there are more of it. Also while I agree that the climbing has always been the weakest element in the whole Uncharted series. At least in U4 they mixed it up with occasional grappling hook. So the climbing is already better than any previous Uncharted
 

timberger

Member
Not to mention we actually don't know how that reveal would have been handled. But there is proof that she has the capability of writing good characters and interesting plots given the previous 3 games she had a hand in creating.

Why, which parts of those games did she write?

No way .
The combat in UC4 was great .
They could have less climbing but the combat was ace.

Yep. Best handled TPS combat we've had all gen.
 

Majek

Member
This sounds so much more interesting that Uncharted 4 that we got. I'd definitely play it. The MP would still be the same anyway. :D
 
No way .
The combat in UC4 was great .
They could have less climbing but the combat was ace.

The thing about introducing deeper mechanics is that it's always great in isolation, but hard to put into a single piece.

Like, take Tomb Raider for example. I would say the game has deeper traversal mechanics than Uncharted, for example. But the moment I try to transplant those same mechanics into Uncharted, I think "wait, how would this fit into the fast-paced frantic traversal combat? How would Nate aim hook shots to walls? Shoot while climbing those, etc etc?"

And then I realise the way TR handles it is that vertical traversal and combat are practically non-existent in TR. It works because it's largely separated.

For UC, of course you could also separate it to make pure climbing segments more fun, but I think it would also make the gunplay less satisfying unless you find the right marriage of traversal mechanics in combat vs out-of-combat.
 

Nakadai30

Member
What a shame. Would have loved to have played Hennig's original vision. I think she is an inspiring figure in the video game industry. Her version of Sam sounds so much better than the waste of space we were left with in Uncharted 4 proper.
Lost a lot of respect for Naughty Dog and Druckmann with what happened to Hennig, and what we ended up getting with Uncharted 4. And I LOVE the Last of Us. Makes me afraid of what the Last of Us Part II will end up being like.
Uncharted 4 had so many issues. The plot, characters, gameplay, pacing... There were some great things tucked away in there, but...
 
Can the OP at least say this is all coming from Jason Schreier's book Blood Sweat and Pixels? Just to give credit. And for people to maybe check out the book, too.

And not bother with the Youtube video.
 
Would've rather played this version of Uncharted 4. As it stood, I couldn't get UC4 out of my house fast enough after I beat it. I wanted to scrub all evidence that I'd ever touched the thing. Quite possibly the worst game I've played this gen.
 

DJwest

Member
It's a long video it's 20 minutes.

- No gun combat for half the game, vehicle based (Unkarted was a reality)
-Huge emphasis on melee combat
-No mechanic you shoot at walls and use that to climb
- New boost mechanic
- Dance Dance mini game
- Elena would have been with Drake for the first half of the game on his adventure
- No Nadine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIwHJojouxI

https://www.psu.com/news/34094/uncharted-4-development-troubled-history-surfaces
This all sounds terrible, I'm glad we got the version we did.
 

joms5

Member
What a shame. Would have loved to have played Hennig's original vision. I think she is an inspiring figure in the video game industry. Her version of Sam sounds so much better than the waste of space we were left with in Uncharted 4 proper.
Lost a lot of respect for Naughty Dog and Druckmann with what happened to Hennig, and what we ended up getting with Uncharted 4. And I LOVE the Last of Us. Makes me afraid of what the Last of Us Part II will end up being like.
Uncharted 4 had so many issues. The plot, characters, gameplay, pacing... There were some great things tucked away in there, but...

I don't worry about TLOU2. I think Druck has a better handle on writing more serious subject matter that goes along with the world and themes of TLOU. Uncharted was always supposed to be a fun bombastic thrill ride with love, friendship and honor being subtle subtexts behind them. Similar to movies like Indiana Jones and Romancing the Stone.

Trying to shoehorn an overtly serious tone to a series that has never been about that was a mistake from the beginning.
 
What Jason's book points out that the OP doesn't seem to reference is that there was a strong feeling in ND that the elements being worked on weren't fun and coming together well. All of these individual mechanics (dance minigame, manual rope targeting, new climbing system) were potentially interesting in isolation but didn't necessarily gel well together.

Also noted in the book- Druckmann and Straley did not want to direct the game. After they were forced on the project their original intention was to transition UC4 to a new team of directors after a few months so that they could return to the prototypes they were working on before. But production demands pretty much forced them to stay on through the entire project.
 
As has already been said I feel like reactions to Sam coming out of nowhere would've been worse if he was a villain. "Oh it's his evil brother, this series has jumped the shark."
That said all the other stuff seems interesting. Even though UC4 is one of my favorite games ever I think some of the stuff listed would have been cool to have.
 

kpaadet

Member
I don't worry about TLOU2. I think Druck has a better handle on writing more serious subject matter that goes along with the world and themes of TLOU. Uncharted was always supposed to be a fun bombastic thrill ride with love, friendship and honor being subtle subtexts behind them. Similar to movies like Indiana Jones and Romancing the Stone.

Trying to shoehorn an overtly serious tone to a series that has never been about that was a mistake from the beginning.

So you agree that Hennnig's version was bad? Long lost brother coming for revenge sure sounds like just friendship and love. And the very first teaser with Hennig still at ND also just screamed happy E rated video game for the entire family. Sounds to me Hennig already wrote this with a more serious tone in mind and Druckmann just continued with it.
 

theWB27

Member
So you agree that Hennnig's version was bad? Long lost brother coming for revenge sure sounds like just friendship and love. And the very first teaser with Hennig still at ND also just screamed happy E rated video game for the entire family. Sounds to me Hennig already wrote this with a more serious tone in mind and Druckmann just continued with it.

What? Uncharted managed to be light even with evil villains. Nothing about that teaser made it feel like that couldn't continue.
 

joms5

Member
So you agree that Hennnig's version was bad? Long lost brother coming for revenge sure sounds like just friendship and love. And the very first teaser with Hennig still at ND also just screamed happy E rated video game for the entire family. Sounds to me Hennig already wrote this with a more serious tone in mind and Druckmann just continued with it.

No Hennig's version was vastly superior. Long lost brother coming for revenge that ultimately sees the value in family (his family) and changes his ways is infinitely better than self serving brother shows up to tear Nates life apart to ultimately better himself and save his life but play it off like Nate lives for this shit.

Sorry but anyone that liked Sam as a character says a lot about that person, and its not someone I would want to be around.

None of the Uncharted games have been E rated games so I don't know what you're on about. The first 3 entries were still fun while having those kinds of themes but never took them as seriously as 4 did. It was so melodramatic it was sad.
 
I never said I liked any of the gameplay ideas. But the story is much more plausible. Sam was a scumbag of a brother and Nate helping such a piece of shit over his wife who seemed to be way too good for Nate in this entry wasn't believable at all.

Sam wasn't supposed to be a likeable character. And this is proof that he was supposed to be unliked. He was initially the villain.

And it's funny you say "Sam was your brother all along" is a horrible twist with no purpose but that "Hey I had a brother that i've never mentioned all theses years and my last name isn't actually Drake" is much better right?

Not to mention we actually don't know how that reveal would have been handled. But there is proof that she has the capability of writing good characters and interesting plots given the previous 3 games she had a hand in creating.

The story we got definitely makes sense. First of all, Sam is not a scumbag, it is made clear through the flashbacks that they care for each other and Sam just wants to live his lifelong dream with his brother which is certainly believable. Nate helped his brother because he feels guilty about not knowing he was alive all these years. Plus, Nate still loves treasure hunting, and Sam showing up was more of an excuse for him to get back into that life.

Also, the idea of Nate having a brother and not really being called Drake isn't a twist, it is revealed right away.
 

Reebot

Member
Making Sam Nate's long-lost-and-never-mentioned brother was and still is the worst part of the story. This version doesn't correct that, but it does at least sound like a different take on the series. Which could prove fun - who knows?

Losing the lighthearted adventurous tone was the biggest consequence of Amy's departure. Even the silly, ridiculous plotting of the finished game would come off better if it didn't try so hard.

Here's my suggestion for Uncharted 5. Set it in the past, and make Nate a professor. To escape his foes, he also changed his name: South Dakota Smith. He has to race against the Nazis to uncover an ancient religious artificial that has supernatural powers. Also he wears a hat.

Instant gold right there.
 

Memento

Member
Interesting. The one we got was definitely better then if that is the angle Amy would take it.

It would be pretty awful to have them discover they were brothers and then partner in the end to take down the villain.

It looks like Druckmann had to work with what he had though, since in the end the plot points are the same from Amy's vision. I guess it would be too radical to throw everything away.

Interesting to read it would be half the game with zero shooting though. People that didnt like the slow pacing in the beginning of current UC4 (and blaming that all on Neil's because "TLOUzation of Uncharted") would be even more bitter with half the game without gunplay lol.
 
It explains why Rafe and Sam ended up being weak characters as they repurposed and their motivation altered. Druckmann and Straley ganged up against Hennig direction with Uncharted 4. As I understand most people in the creative fields don't like that sort of restricting working environment, and it's probably why she left. It's either she givens in to what they want, or leave. I would pick the latter off course. She is Talented and probably working on something big right now.
 

traveler

Not Wario
I mean, the weird thing is that Sam is a villain in the final game, but the game refuses to see it in the end; he's just a victim for Nathan to rescue and then Sully hires him because why wouldn't you hire the guy who proved himself completely untrustworthy and obsessive over treasure to his and everyone else's detriment?

The lie he tells to the group is a huge, huge act of villainy and it would take some serious hand waving to excuse it. I know we don't often concern ourselves with the henchmen that work for the villains, but it's also important to note there's really no reason for Drake to start murdering them other than the lie- Rafe isn't a warlord on his way to destroy the world with the power of a hidden treasure; he's a hunter who hired help for protection and labor. There's nothing noble about killing his men.

I think Sam gets off way too easy in the final cut of the game. I don't mean his ultimate fate plot wise but moreso the way the story expects us to see him as a problem child and nothing more. While Nathan was obsessive over treasure in the past, it was also in the name of fighting legitimate threats to the world and, more importantly, he never pulled anything close to the lie that Sam did.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Wow, I'm pretty happy we didn't get this version.

The idea of Sam being a bitter villain is pretty terrible and Nadine ended up being a great character.

I'm sure it still would have been great despite how some of it sounds. But as it is, we got one of the best games ever made so there's not much I would imagine being different.
 

theWB27

Member
So what was so dark about UC4 then?

Nathan never felt like he was into the adventure like the previous titles. It was a guilt adventure that ran even more sour whenever he interacted with his brother. Then he's lying to his wife to go on an adventure he resents the whole time because he wasn't supposed to be there.

It wasn't dark...but it is not what made Uncharted great. It wouldn't better served had all that been skipped and maybe the ending to 4 had already happened and his brother undersold what was at stake and it was an over their head type of adventure. Instead it was overly emotional coupled with a lack of action that made the series great.
 
Wow, I love Amy Hennig's writing and am forever in her debt for creating Drake, but this doesn't read as something that would have gone over well, I don't think. Although it's interesting that there ended up being basically no combat for the first third of the game (and not a ton overall) in Druckmann's version.

But her version was over half. You can't do that with an Uncharted game. It would be so boring. Also melee combat is the worst part of Uncharted. All awkward and low-fi. It's hard to believe her script is actually worse than Druckmann's realized version but... it is.
 

Memento

Member
It explains why Rafe and Sam ended up being weak characters as they repurposed and their motivation altered. Druckmann and Straley ganged up against Hennig direction with Uncharted 4. As I understand most people in the creative fields don't like that sort of restricting working environment, and it's probably why she left. It's either she givens in to what they want, or leave. I would pick the latter off course. She is Talented and probably working on something big right now.

Rafe was a great character and villain.

Sam is just kind of there. At least he is fun. I would think Amy's Sam would be a bitter morally grey brother with no fun allowed. Current Sam is morally grey too but he is Drakeish in the sense that he make jokes about everything and have fun with what he does. Sort of like Chloe.
 
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