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[Alavard]

That is scary. Shows what we are doing is not working.....

It simply is not possible to predict all crime.

 

[KingBroly]

If he did this on his own, and it's his first act of this kind, why would he have been on anybody's radar?

People think he's part of a cell. Or at least, they thought he was earlier in the thread. I haven't been able to keep up.

 

[Hoo-doo]

That is scary. Shows what we are doing is not working.....

Why would he be on any kind of radar if this is his first attempt at doing something like this? You can't arrest people for thought-crime just yet.

 

[Arkeband]

Basically...

Pretty much. His bombs got disassembled by street thieves, a delay in a race made his other bomb pointless, and someone threw a cooker in a dumpster, probably while yelling to no one in particular "eeyyy I'm walkin eeeah!"

The city played him. Worst terry ever. Drax'd and sklounst'd.

 

[Damerman]

Do we know the motive yet?

Im not even sure why so many people are talking about islamic terrorism yet if we don't even have a motive yet.

 

[Gorger]

Amazing they got this guy alive. Good job to the police, and I hope the wounded gets a speedy recovery. Hopefully he'll squeal on his contacts as I doubt he was completely alone in this.

The fact that nobody died in the explosion and he was caught with no casualties is very fortunate. 28 years old and a whole lifetime in jail ahead of himself. For what?

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Dude had bombs and guns, yet somehow failed to kill one person. We got really lucky here.

It's partly luck but not as much as you think.

Counter-terrorism efforts have reduced much of the "active" pool in the U.S. to dangerous idiots, basically.

That is scary. Shows what we are doing is not working.....

See above. You can't stop everything. This calibre of terrorist is a sign it *is* working.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Nobody else is being sought in the investigation, so I assume that law enforcement doesn't believe he's part of a cell.

From the WaPo article:

The family seemed fairly Westernized, Almeida said. Three or four years ago, he said, he noticed that the family started wearing religious garb and stopped wearing Western clothes.

He fits the profile of a radicalized lone wolf, sounds like. But we don't know a specific motive, no.

 

[Stasis]

Crazy.

I grew up close to the Chelsea bomb. My best friend grew up on that block. Basically I lived on the street that had another PATH station and could easily have been the target. Corner of 9th and 6th. This was 23rd and 7th. My dad still takes the PATH daily.

The one in seaside park was super close to our old summer beach house, seaside heights/point pleasant area. Have family there.

My grandmother had a house in Elizabeth up until a few years ago when she moved into the city to be closer to family. Spent my childhood there every other weekend. Family/friends there too.

My dad grew up in Linden. My grandparents first home/practice together.

Just too much 'close to home' shit going on here, damn. Each location is something to me and that really makes this worse to hear about. So happy he's off the street but I can't believe this is over. I live in Montreal now, just so worried for family and friends back home. NYC and area will always be a target.

 

[NinjaMouse]

Yeah. New York should be proud of their defiance in the wake of attacks like this. Anytime I see people carrying on as normal in the wake of terrorism it's like finding a silver lining in a big pile of shit.

Yeah, if we pretend like it didn't happen...it's almost like it actually didn't!

This perception of New Yorkers isn't entirely accurate, to be honest. I can say it's been a pretty hot conversation around my office at least and people certainly aren't very passe about it. The defiance seems to come from an expectation that "well, it's NYC...it's always a target" and you're not getting a day off to wring your hands over it. Please don't confuse that with just "carrying on".

 

[plagiarize]

Dude had bombs and guns, yet somehow failed to kill one person. We got really lucky here.

We did get lucky, because any devices like the ones exploding could have killed people, but lets not lose sight of the great efforts made by the cities and residents of NY and NJ in tracking down any other devices and bringing him in. It wasn't just luck.

 

[Audioboxer]

Why would he be on any kind of radar if this is his first attempt at doing something like this? You can't arrest people for thought-crime just yet.

Precisely, law enforcement should be commended here as well. Bringing someone in alive is always useful to uncovering if it was a solo ploy or multiple people. It shows any other future attackers that they're not simply going to get an easy way out via a police killing at the end of things. Although the police have to keep the public safe and more often than not using lethal force can become a necessity. Still, many deranged people when staring down life in solitary confinement might squeal at the chance of something being tossed their way in jail.

The only time we should criticise Government around lists is if known people on watch lists get access to weapons or travel when on no fly lists and so forth. That is a failing of them being under surveillance in the first place.

 

[Curufinwe]

Why would he be on any kind of radar if this is his first attempt at doing something like this? You can't arrest people for thought-crime just yet.

If we could predict future crimes, the government would be kept very busy confiscating guns from "law abiding citizens".

 

[plagiarize]

Yeah, if we pretend like it didn't happen...it's almost like it actually didn't!

This perception of New Yorkers isn't entirely accurate, to be honest. I can say it's been a pretty hot conversation around my office at least and people certainly aren't very passe about it. The defiance seems to come from an expectation that "well, it's NYC...it's always a target" and you're not getting a day off to wring your hands over it. Please don't confuse that with just "carrying on".

I'm a brit. 'Keep Calm and Carry On' doesn't mean pretend like nothing bad has happened. It doesn't mean be completely emotionally unaffected. It means don't panic, and stick to your normal day to day life.

Saying life goes on, isn't saying you shouldn't be emotionally effected by stuff like this. I'd be worried if people weren't. Defiance in the face of terrorism is a great thing though all the same.

 

[Count Dookkake]

NYT updates:



http://www.nytimes.com/live/new-york-explosion/the-scene-in-linden/

WaPo:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-for-new-york-n-j-bombings-ahmad-khan-rahami/

Flee Jones is a great name.

 

[Hex]

He looks like Oscar Issac in Ex Machina

Really? I thought that he looked like he played himself

 

[Hex]

Dude had bombs and guns, yet somehow failed to kill one person. We got really lucky here.

*Pressure cookers.
Fortunately it takes work to make them deadly.

 

[radios shipping overview]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ersey-and-minnesota-raise-fears-of-terrorism/

Suspect in New York, N.J. bombings in custody after shootout; ‘no indication’ of terror cell

Now that Rahami is in custody, the investigation is shifting to focus on whether he acted alone and what his motivation may have been, James O’Neill, the New York police commissioner.

William Sweeney Jr., assistant director in charge of the FBI’s New York division, said that authorities have found “no indication that there is a [terror] cell operating in the area.”

 

[Guevara]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ersey-and-minnesota-raise-fears-of-terrorism/

I think the irony of this attack is, it's proof the systems works pretty well.

While you can't stop every lone-wolf idiot with a pressure cooker, you can coordinate a fast and effective response.

And NY, largely, is blasé today. Definitely not "terrorized". My office is 20 blocks from the bombings and everyone is like "oh, right... that thing".

 

[Clefargle]

The city played him. Worst terry ever. Drax'd and sklounst'd.

Lol I loved this sketch

 

[Henkka]

Hopefully all of this going so horribly wrong for the perpetrator will dissuade others.

 

[Quixzlizx]

I like how a terrorist managed to be outsmarted/foiled by NY's petty criminals. Their power level is too strong from years of surviving Batman and Daredevil.

 

[jelly]

He actually survived a shootout, security services did the right thing there, find out what he knows.

 

[Davidion]

Oh good, looks like our intelligence system is holding up ok. Are you armchair policy experts from somewhere that's not New York City closed to done with your pearl clutching yet?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I honestly believe that we defeat this stuff by undermining the lie that the US wants to eradicate Islam. Because it's not true, by and large. That's why I hate seeing people use rhetoric that intentionally or not feeds into that... because that's how ISIS recruit.

They convince people the US is an enemy of Islam. The more Muslims that live in the US, that we treat like normal human beings, the more that Americans realize that the vast majority of Muslims are just that, normal human beings, the more and more we push ISIS into the fringes.

And when people get upset at me for 'not remembering the victims' of attacks like this, my gut reaction is always to point out that when they insist that we criticize the Quran or core Muslim tenets, that they're not remembering that the vast majority of victims of ISIS are Muslims.

The problem I have with this line of thinking is that this guy (and the Boston Marathon bombers) were by and large already Westernized, accepted into their local communities, and somewhat affluent. Similar to a number of the UK-born militants and ISIS-sympathizers.

Why do people buy into the "US is the enemy of Islam" propaganda? I think the closest thing we have to a universal cause, is that they have a stronger religious identity than they do a nationalist identity. I'd argue that they are not radicalized by their treatment here, but by their perception of Muslim persecution abroad. Vigilance is really the only preventative measure we can take if someone just decides one day that they want to be a murderer after watching a youtube video; by and large Boston and NY (and the local FBI) have done a great job of that. I don't think the US has the "inflammatory mosque" problem that the UK has, nor do we have any notable Muslim-only ghettos.

Edit: Joe's post above is a great summary.

 

[Poltergust]

It's pretty amazing that the guy was taken in alive, all things considered.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

This has been a bright spot on a history of awful tragedies. No deaths, no severe injuries, and a captive suspect. Great work from the authorities involved.

 

[killertofu]

Really? I thought that he looked like he played himself

ayy lmao

 

[Seventy70]

What a clown lol

I'm glad no one was killed. This is possibly the only attack that has left me feeling somewhat optimistic.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

That's the point. That's what radicals want.

I think they actually want to kill us all, dance on our graves, and forcibly convert the rest of the world to their religion through rape and intimidation.

I don't think ISIS particularly cares what flavor of drone strikes (D or R) rain on their parade. They are far more concerned at the moment on our relationships with Assad and Israel.

 

[timetokill]

Wow with that WaPo report it sounds like you can pretty nearly pinpoint the time at which he became radicalized

 

[2MF]

Wait, so it was terrorism after all? I thought they had denied that initially?

 

[B-Dubs]

Wait, so it was terrorism after all? I thought they had denied that initially?

They didn't want to say until they knew for sure, which is how it should be.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I think the irony of this attack is, it's proof the systems works pretty well.

While you can't stop every lone-wolf idiot with a pressure cooker, you can coordinate a fast and effective response.

And NY, largely, is blasé today. Definitely not "terrorized". My office is 20 blocks from the bombings and everyone is like "oh, right... that thing".

I'm like 5 blocks away. Everybody is calm.

I've thought about making a thread about people in large city's relative lack of fear vs. suburban and smaller cities always freaking out. Its not like people aren't worried but they're not thinking this is the end of the world that half the first posts in most attack threads are.

 

[Guevara]

Wait, so it was terrorism after all? I thought they had denied that initially?

De Blasio was being weird about it, as usual.

I think everyone else thought it was "likely" terrorism.

 

[B-Dubs]

I'm like 5 blocks away. Everybody is calm

Yup. I mean, people talk about it but no one's really worried. We've seen far worse as a city, this won't even register in a week or two.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Yup. I mean, people talk about it but no one's really worried. We've seen far worse as a city, this won't even register in a week or two.

The bar tweet was true too, though I wasn't in manhattan this was an exact conversation

"There was a bombing in chelsea"

"damn was anyone hurt"

"a few injuries but no deaths"

"ok thats good, I'm sure the cops got it. we're still going to the bar?"

"yea"

 

[Infinite]

De Blasio was being weird about it, as usual.

I think everyone else thought it was "likely" terrorism.

He was just being careful because words mean things

 

[backflip10019]

I'm like 5 blocks away. Everybody is calm.

I've thought about making a thread about people in large city's relative lack of fear vs. suburban and smaller cities always freaking out. Its not like people aren't worried but they're not thinking this is the end of the world that half the first posts in most attack threads are.

10 blocks away here. It's felt relatively calm today, though I could sense a little tension on the subway this morning. But that's really to be expected.

 

[Bobnob]

The problem I have with this line of thinking is that this guy (and the Boston Marathon bombers) were by and large already Westernized, accepted into their local communities, and somewhat affluent. Similar to a number of the UK-born militants and ISIS-sympathizers.

Why do people buy into the "US is the enemy of Islam" propaganda? I think the closest thing we have to a universal cause, is that they have a stronger religious identity than they do a nationalist identity. I'd argue that they are not radicalized by their treatment here, but by their perception of Muslim persecution abroad. Vigilance is really the only preventative measure we can take if someone just decides one day that they want to be a murderer after watching a youtube video; by and large Boston and NY (and the local FBI) have done a great job of that. I don't think the US has the "inflammatory mosque" problem that the UK has, nor do we have any notable Muslim-only ghettos.

Edit: Joe's post above is a great summary.

https://youtu.be/TeaVPcb8pdI explains a little bit, this channel is great!

 

[MetatronM]

I'm like 5 blocks away. Everybody is calm.

I've thought about making a thread about people in large city's relative lack of fear vs. suburban and smaller cities always freaking out. Its not like people aren't worried but they're not thinking this is the end of the world that half the first posts in most attack threads are.

I'm one block away from where the second device was found. It's a pretty normal, if somewhat quiet, day. The rain was more a pain in the ass this morning than anything else. The subway was a bit on the empty side this morning, but that's about it (and even that's not all that unusual with those AM thunderstorms).

In a few minutes, though, I have to run over to our payroll company, which just happens to be on 22nd between 5th and 6th, so I guess I'll see what's going on around there.


Also, I was in a French cafe in Brooklyn when the news broke on Saturday night. The conversation basically went as follows:

"Oh hey, I saw something was going on in the city, what happened?"
"Uhhh...looks like an explosion. In Chelsea. Doesn't sound like anybody died."
"Huh."
"Probably just a gas explosion or something. Anyway..."

 

[Corto]

That's the point. That's what radicals want.

Exactly. Boots on the ground in Syria/Iraq. That's the end game for ISIS. Attract the US to a gruesome war in the region. The candidate that has that as an option is Trump.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

You're not disagreeing with me. They want a west vs Islam scenario. The more we alienate your average Muslim the better argument radicals have.

And if you read my other reply above, I said that it seems increasingly unlikely that this is the case. People become radicalized because of their empathy for Muslims abroad, not because of lack of opportunity and acceptance domestically. Which is why the majority of ISIS sympathizers in the UK are traveling TO Syria, not plotting/committing local terrorist attacks.

One parent – Walid el-Araj – speaking for the first time a year after his son's death, said he still had no real idea as to how his 23-year-old son, Mohammed el-Araj, from Ladbroke Grove, west London, was encouraged to travel to Syria. He is sure that others were involved.

He told the Guardian his son had spun a series of lies in the months preceding his departure for Syria. "I thought that he was at college and he wasn't. I thought he was already [enrolled] at a course but he wasn't.

"Always, because I believed him, he gave me a positive answer about any questions [I had]. And I was busy with my work. Any time I asked, when I arrived home, and ask 'where is he' ... he'd be at the mosque."

"I don't know which mosque. I wish I knew the mosque. Because I was seriously angry. I want to catch any of these imams and want to find out how they make these young boys [do this]."

ISIS recruitment is being driven by toxic ideology from abroad, not by homegrown lack of opportunity. There are second and third generation young men from otherwise integrated families buying into this bullshit.

One of the Brussells bombers also came from a completely normal and Westernized family: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-belgium-blast-laachraoui-idUSKCN0WQ1NY
He got mindfucked by religious extremists, traveled to Syria, and came back a suicide bomber. His brother, by contrast, is a national Taekwondo competitor. ISIS doesn't need social unrest or alienation in the West to recruit.

 

[victreeb3l]

We were pretty chill about it at work today. Our office is a few blocks away and no one was really talking about it until lunch time. It was basically us discussing how our non NY relatives were calling and freaking out and us just being like yeah its cool were all chill etc.

Really, really thankful this fuckface wasn't able to hurt anyone.

 

[MHWilliams]

That is scary. Shows what we are doing is not working.....

Listen and learn.

Most screening processes are aimed at terror networks, whereas lone radicalized actors are almost impossible to tag beforehand.

Some of the first to pursue this small-cell approach were white supremacists in the U.S. In the 1960s and 1970s, white supremacist hate groups were infiltrated by law enforcement. These groups figured this out several decades later and decided it was safer to operate in loosely affiliated cells. Louis Beam, one of the most influential modern white supremacists, called this “leaderless resistance.”

“It’s harder to detect small groups than it is big groups,” Neer says. “I think some of the international groups have realized the same thing—they’ve come to the same conclusion that the white supremacist leader did.”

He also says of today’s would be terrorists: “People don’t have to take the risk of joining a group that may have been infiltrated by law enforcement, of traveling to join a group. They can just get online, and through a Facebook group or Twitter, they can get radicalized.”

There’s no single profile of a lone wolf. Rather, it’s more that those who become lone wolves often share a similar path toward extremism, and many carry with them a personal grievance.

Combined with a “precipitating event,” such as a political event, individuals with grievances reflect on their frustrations and what they perceive to be unfairness. They’re looking for an explanation, Neer says. There’s also what’s called a “cognitive opening.” The individual becomes receptive to radical ideas and, potentially, actions. Often, one in this position has or will blame the grievance on a group. If the individual chooses to pursue radical ideology, then he or she might become a lone wolf.

“The big challenge for the public is, how do you recognize these people without stigmatizing any group?” Neer says.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...tacks-impossible-to-stop-says-security-expert

Gill’s work included a study for the US Department of Homeland Security, in which 119 lone actor terrorists were examined. Lone actors carry out attacks not just in the name of Islamism, but also influenced by extreme rightwing ideology as well as anti-abortion views, and environmentalism.

Research by Gill and other academics found there may be clues ahead of an attack by a single individual. It says: “For a large majority (83%) of offenders, others were aware of the grievances that later spurred their terrorist plots or actions. In a similar number of cases (79%), others were aware of the individual’s commitment to a specific extremist ideology.”

So-called lone wolves are not just driven to violence by an ideological cause, said Gill, who added: “One-third had have mental health problems and others had other stressors such as having lost their job. The ideology gives them a buffer from their other problems.”

Essentially, you cannot and will not be able to stop all attacks or crimes. Lone wolves are particularly hard to track, because the stressors that lead to them tend to affect thousands or millions of folks without any negative consequences.

Many young men feel rejected by young women. Not all become Elliot Rodgers. Many white folks feel black people are bad, but not all become Dylann Roof. Many are Islamaphobic, but not everyone becomes Anders Behring Breivik. Not everyone who shares Ahmad Khan Rahami's background is a terrorist and trying to treat them as such in fact increases the likelihood of any radicalization.

And if you read my other reply above, I said that it seems increasingly unlikely that this is the case. People become radicalized because of their empathy for Muslims abroad, not because of lack of opportunity and acceptance domestically. Which is why the majority of ISIS sympathizers in the UK are traveling TO Syria, not plotting/committing local terrorist attacks.

ISIS recruitment is being driven by toxic ideology from abroad, not by homegrown lack of opportunity. There are second and third generation young men from otherwise integrated families buying into this bullshit.

One of the Brussells bombers also came from a completely normal and Westernized family: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-belgium-blast-laachraoui-idUSKCN0WQ1NY
He got mindfucked by religious extremists, traveled to Syria, and came back a suicide bomber. His brother, by contrast, is a national Taekwondo competitor. ISIS doesn't need social unrest or alienation in the West to recruit.

NPR took a look a the issue and noted that those they spoke to who came from naturalized families likely had issues in their day-to-day life. Not opportunity, but general racism and the like.

Jamal was born in Somalia; his family moved to Denmark because Somalia was in the middle of a civil war. His was the only black family in the neighborhood and the only Muslim family, and his childhood wasn't easy. Kids called him names, asked him if he had the same blood as they did, and teased him. For a long time he just would fight back, but he knew he was disappointing his father.

When he was a little older, Jamal decided to take a different tack. He tried to be the good kid. He studied and made jokes in class, and his stress eased. The teachers liked him, his classmates liked him, and he began to make Danish friends and even to feel more Danish.

Then one day in high school, his teacher organized a debate about Islam. Jamal had just been on the hajj, the pilgrimage to Mecca, with his family, and he was infused with a newfound religious identity. And during the debate one of the girls started saying to the class that Muslims "terrorize" the West, and kill people and stone women. Jamal argued with her and eventually lost his temper, saying, "People like you should never exist."

After that moment, Jamal's life went off the rails. The teacher told the principal, who told the police, who questioned Jamal about being a terrorist. Jamal had to stay home from school and miss his final exams. The police cleared him, but it was too late for him to redo his exams, so he had to redo some of high school. He was furious about it. Soon after the investigation, his mother died, and he blamed her death on the stress caused by the investigation. He began to feel rejected by the West.

"The original response was to fight [extremism] through military and policing efforts, and they didn't fare too well," says Arie Kruglanski, a social psychologist at the University of Maryland who studies violent extremism. "That kind of response that puts them as suspects and constrains them and promotes discrimination — that is only likely to exacerbate the problem. It's only likely to inflame the sense there's discrimination and motivate young people to act against society."

I'm skeptical of the open arms idea, but I'm not skeptical of the fact that you can't institute racial profiling to catch such attacks.

And if you're going to, you should probably add young, disaffected white men to the list.

 

[Diffense]

Islam does not define a race any more than Christianity does. It's a belief system.

"Radicalization" = becoming more devout and therefore becoming open to some of the more extreme possibilities of religious devotion such as martyrdom. When religious doctrines condone violence, for any reason, these possibilities are inherent in their worldview.

And of course, there are other motivations for apparently random acts of violence and times when the motivations are as clear as mud (Newtown school shooting for example). In any case, it is always easier to examine the problem than to come up with solutions.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

 

[Keasar]

Basically...

That's what I love about New Yorkers. No fucks given in the face of terrorism.

Like how Samantha Bee said it in her latest Full Frontal episode.
This to New Yorkers is by now basically nothing.

This is how you terrify them today:

 

[Laughing Banana]

Urgh, Muslims are going to find themselves in even worse days, aren't they?

Fuck this guy.

 

[radios shipping overview]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...cement-officer-with-further-charges-expected/


Father of suspected bomber Ahmad Rahami says he had called the FBI about him

Rahami’s father spoke briefly to a scrum of reporters, offering relatively few details before climbing into an SUV and leaving. He also told reporters that his son was violent toward other family members “for no reason.”

A federal law enforcement official confirmed that they did look into the father’s comments and opened what is known as an assessment, a relatively low-scale probe.

The father went on to recant his comments, but agents conducted interviews and checked databases as part of this effort, said the official, who asked not to be identified. It did not immediately appear that the investigation was as intensive as the FBI’s investigation of Omar Mateen, the Orlando gunman who opened fire inside a nightclub there earlier this year.

However, there were indications that Rahami was interested in extremist ideologies. After Rahami was captured, investigators found blood-spattered papers on him that included a reference to Anwar al-Awlaki, according to two federal law enforcement officials.

Awlaki, an American-born cleric who was a top leader for al-Qaeda in Yemen, was killed in a 2011 drone strike, but his rhetoric continues to resonate online.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/21/nyregion/ahmad-khan-rahami-suspect.html

“Two years ago I go to the F.B.I. because my son was doing really bad, O.K.?” he said. “But they check almost two months, they say, ‘He’s O.K., he’s clean, he’s not a terrorist.’ I say O.K.”

He added: “Now they say he is a terrorist. I say O.K.”

When Mr. Rahami was captured during a shootout with the police on Monday, the authorities found a notebook, pierced with a bullet hole and covered in blood, expressing opinions sympathetic to jihadist causes, according to a law enforcement official who agreed to speak about the investigation only on the condition of anonymity.

In one section of the book, Mr. Rahami wrote of “killing the kuffar,” or unbelievers, the official said. Mr. Rahami also praised Anwar al-Awlaki, Al Qaeda’s leading propagandist, who died in a drone strike in Yemen, as well as the soldier in the Fort Hood shooting, one of the deadliest “lone wolf” attacks inspired by Al Qaeda.