New York Times Forced to Admit Trump Tax Cuts Helped Virtually Everyone

ViceUniverse

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Funny that their angle is that most American's don't believe they got a Tax Cut, when in fact they did get a tax cut.

Hmmmmmm....I wonder why so many people don't think they got one....could it be the Fake News Media kept telling them it was only for the rich?

NYT

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the liberal argument is not that people got a tax cut, but if they got as much as they figured all said and done, and that the rich got a disproportionate cut. For example I heard that the amount of companies paying zero taxes doubled under this plan (so If they were close to zero before, the cuts put them at zero).

I didn't pay zero, but I got a nice cut myself. I paid about 17%. Mine will expire one day so they need to make this permanent.
 
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Madonis

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Taxes actually went up in certain states and among certain groups though, so that's still misleading. Certain changes to tax law had the opposite effect, one way or another, so not everyone received a benefit.

And yes, the main criticism is about the proportion. Big corporations and the wealthy getting too much of a cut.
 
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Sub_Level

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Mate, its right there in the article:

High earners did far better under the law. The top 20 percent of earners received more than 60 percent of the total tax savings, according to the Tax Policy Center; the top 1 percent received nearly 17 percent of the total benefit, and got an average tax cut of more than $30,000. And that’s not even factoring in the law’s huge cut to corporate taxes, which disproportionately benefit the wealthy households that own the most stock.

Surveys consistently show that what bothers Americans most about the tax system is not that they pay too much but that they think corporations and the wealthy pay too little, said Vanessa Williamson, a political scientist at the Brookings Institution who studies public attitudes toward taxation. The tax law only sharpened those concerns.
 
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diablos991

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I know I paid a lot less. The media tries so hard to make it look like paying less taxes is a bad thing.

Paying more taxes is only a good thing if your government is wise and efficient at spending the tax dollars. We have a lot of room to trim the fat and reallocate funds without needing to raise taxes on the American people.
 
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Hmmmmmm....I wonder why so many people don't think they got one....could it be the Fake News Media kept telling them it was only for the rich?
Doubt that. I think it boils down to Pres. Trump is not on their team.

I thought the issue was people were rating their “tax cut” only based on their refund - not taking into account the reduced withholding during the year.
Or this.

In any event, a lot of people (predominantly minorities) were able to come off the sidelines because the US didn't strangle its weak recovery. Under Pres. Obama and Congress, the people who were winning were rich and disproportionately white. Near the end of 2014, Republicans took more control. A few years later Pres. Trump hopped in the driver's seat as POTUS.

Now look at what America is achieving. There's no way to spin the recovery as weak anymore.
 

autoduelist

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I thought the issue was people were rating their “tax cut” only based on their refund - not taking into account the reduced withholding during the year. I’m not sure I saw any media outlets propagating the idea that you would be paying more taxes in 2018.
Huh? Fortunately I invented a time machine.

Time to Pay the Trump Tax as GOP Tax Cut for the Rich Hits Working Families Hard


Trump tax plan was a lie.


After an initial increase in popularity—demonstrating the impact of fawning, misleading media coverage of one-time bonuses that a few corporations gave out specifically to help pump up support for the tax plan—the American people have realized the plan won’t help most of them.
MSNBC’s Ali Velshi calls Trump’s new ‘middle class tax cut’ outright make-believe


NBCBLK GOP tax plan could hurt generations of African-Americans


“If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention,” he told NBC News. “It is an enormous gift to the ultra wealthy and pretty exclusively benefits the ultra wealthy.”
You are absolutely correct that many articles and political opponents intentionally confused their audience by conflating returns and taxes. I didnt even bother quoting those because they are legion. But they also often straight up lied about the tax cuts general.
 

Dev1lXYZ

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I got a little bit of a cut. Saved roughly $120 a paycheck. It adds up. Last time I posted about the tax cut working out, I got sniped by someone that wanted to complain about it......I doubt that person actually worked a real job though-hence the complaining.
 

bigedole

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Mate, its right there in the article:
What a stupid post that makes NO ATTEMPT at providing context. Do you want to know why the top 1% received 17% of the tax savings and the top 20% received 60% of the tax savings? Because according to the 2017 Congressional Budget Office those groups were paying 38% and 88% of the total income tax collected by the federal government. If anything, they deserved even bigger pieces of the tax cut savings pie.
 

HoodWinked

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Ran into this excellent graphic about how brackets changed while i was doing my taxes. With the standard deduction doubling pretty much everyone got lower taxes. The ones that got fucked are single sorta rich people that got pushed into the 35% bracket but since taxes are marginal they may still owe about the same amount before the change
 
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Zaru

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You think you have a "gotcha" there while getting screwed by rich people, lmao.
"We'll throw them a bone" tax cuts that extremely disproportionally benefited the wealthy and corporations (many of which now pay even LESS taxes or ZERO) at the expense of having a RECORD-BREAKING government deficit in a good economy.
But quite a few will defend this racket because Trump threw them a Benjamin or two. I guess Trump's lifetime experience of selling to suckers and bailing at bankruptcy works on a national level.
 
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Super Mario

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I know I paid a lot less. The media tries so hard to make it look like paying less taxes is a bad thing.
Not exactly. The media uses one of it's common weapons, deceptively worded news articles. Spreading propaganda to their loser base that "your tax return is smaller because of Trump," meanwhile corporations are saving more. While neither of those are blatant lies, they are spreading fake messages. How this isn't illegal is beyond me.
 

ViceUniverse

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You think you have a "gotcha" there while getting screwed by rich people, lmao.
"We'll throw them a bone" tax cuts that extremely disproportionally benefited the wealthy and corporations (many of which now pay even LESS taxes or ZERO) at the expense of having a RECORD-BREAKING government deficit in a good economy.
But quite a few will defend this racket because Trump threw them a Benjamin or two. I guess Trump's lifetime experience of selling to suckers and bailing at bankruptcy works on a national level.
It has worked since the late 1800s.
 
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Damage Inc

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We made 3k less than last year. Last year we owed 1800. This year we got 120 back. No other changes besides the tax changes. My paychecks didn’t change.

Whereas a guy at works tax return didn’t change but his paychecks did.
 
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greyshark

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Huh? Fortunately I invented a time machine.

Time to Pay the Trump Tax as GOP Tax Cut for the Rich Hits Working Families Hard


Trump tax plan was a lie.




MSNBC’s Ali Velshi calls Trump’s new ‘middle class tax cut’ outright make-believe


NBCBLK GOP tax plan could hurt generations of African-Americans




You are absolutely correct that many articles and political opponents intentionally confused their audience by conflating returns and taxes. I didnt even bother quoting those because they are legion. But they also often straight up lied about the tax cuts general.
Not a single one of your links point to evidence that people are paying more in taxes. If you want to make the argument that passing the law was a bad idea, that's fine, but the doubling of the standard deduction plus the lowering of the tax rates across the board means that just about everyone paid less federal taxes in 2018.
 

autoduelist

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Not a single one of your links point to evidence that people are paying more in taxes. If you want to make the argument that passing the law was a bad idea, that's fine, but the doubling of the standard deduction plus the lowering of the tax rates across the board means that just about everyone paid less federal taxes in 2018.
Um... yeah, that's the point. They aren't paying more, so there is no evidence. But all of these articles imply that they will be.
 

greyshark

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Um... yeah, that's the point. They aren't paying more, so there is no evidence. But all of these articles imply that they will be.
Ahh - now I see what you're saying. My original point was talking about individuals paying less for their income taxes, not making a claim about overall tax revenue for the government.
 

autoduelist

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Ahh - now I see what you're saying. My original point was talking about individuals paying less for their income taxes, not making a claim about overall tax revenue for the government.
Oh, yeah, i agreed with the first half of your post. I just think much of the media intentionally confused their audience. The major crime being conflating taxes with returns, but even before that they ran smoke screens.
 
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prag16

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Even though the SALT cap screwed us (we still itemized even with the increase to $24k standard), we still ended up paying slightly less (owed a bit when filing, but had bigger paychecks all year). Obama could have made the same cuts and they (meaning the media and their far left masters) would have focused on how the cuts are skewed toward lower income earners compared to their overall tax burden. But instead, it's another case of orange man bad.
 

Platinumstorm

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I think every major media outlet admitted to a decrease in tax burden, the question is to what extent versus Megacorp, and some people were certainly hurt more by the SALT changes in states with higher state tax burdens than states with lower state tax burdens [which, imo, isn't the fault of the tax bill].

Whether the tax cuts were responsible governing now, that is another question, and if you look at our projected deficits, likely not. I do like getting a smaller refund, though.
 

DeafTourette

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I only want to ask one question.... ND nothing else:

Has no one stopped to ask how we can afford these tax cuts but always asks how can we afford all these wars and all this military might that crushes the next 4 biggest militaries combined?
 
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Gandara

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I'm paying $4000 more this year. The removal of personal exemptions really hurt me. Having a family in California sucks when it comes to taxes. If your single, I see how you wouldn't see any difference or may actually get a slightly bigger refund.
 

Sacke & Sugar

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I had to pay taxes this year. No refund. I make no money. My gf's mom had to pay taxes for the first time in 25 years, and corporations and the president pay nothing. The tax cut didn't do fuck all for us
 
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HoodWinked

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I had to pay taxes this year. No refund. I make no money. My gf's mom had to pay taxes for the first time in 25 years, and corporations and the president pay nothing. The tax cut didn't do fuck all for us
It's mathmatically impossible at the lower bracket that you got fucked. The standard deduction doubled and the first 9k is at 10% but the next 38k is only taxed at 12% down from 15% from last year.

You're probably preceieving it as worse since you're paying but that just means not enough was being withdrawn when getting your paycheck. It's sort of better to owe money than get a big refund since you're just giving the government a free loan of your money.
 

ViceUniverse

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It's mathmatically impossible at the lower bracket that you got fucked. The standard deduction doubled and the first 9k is at 10% but the next 38k is only taxed at 12% down from 15% from last year.

You're probably preceieving it as worse since you're paying but that just means not enough was being withdrawn when getting your paycheck. It's sort of better to owe money than get a big refund since you're just giving the government a free loan of your money.
Depends on the income level. If the household income is 38k then it's better not to owe. I rather have a phat check.
 

Yoshi

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For most people criticising the Trump tax cuts, it never was about lower income people not getting any cut, but the fact that high income people get large tax cuts, even though they have to pay only pretty low taxes (considering their income) anyway.
 

ViceUniverse

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For most people criticising the Trump tax cuts, it never was about lower income people not getting any cut, but the fact that high income people get large tax cuts, even though they have to pay only pretty low taxes (considering their income) anyway.
Yes, it's about feeding and worshipping the rich.

Which I don't have a problem with, I just want to tell the truth.
 
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PKM

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The company I work for benefitted from the cuts.
Which in turn trickled down to me and I got a hefty raise and we are going to retrofitting new equipment and bringing new stuff in.

This is the best year for me career wise, super happy!
 
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HoodWinked

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Depends on the income level. If the household income is 38k then it's better not to owe. I rather have a phat check.
what you're saying doesnt mean anything... instead of a big refund it would already be in your bank account or you already spent it.
 

ViceUniverse

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what you're saying doesnt mean anything... instead of a big refund it would already be in your bank account or you already spent it.
If your household income is only 38k, it's likely that you spent every penny that you made. So if you happened to owe, it would suck.

If it is 76k, thats more likely to be a different story.
 
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matt404au

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I only want to ask one question.... ND nothing else:

Has no one stopped to ask how we can afford these tax cuts but always asks how can we afford all these wars and all this military might that crushes the next 4 biggest militaries combined?
Your great military might is what allows you to exert your cultural dominance on the rest of the world. It needs to be large enough to ward off alliances between the next largest powers. We do not want China or Russia supplanting the US as the dominant culture.
 
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greyshark

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I'm paying $4000 more this year. The removal of personal exemptions really hurt me. Having a family in California sucks when it comes to taxes. If your single, I see how you wouldn't see any difference or may actually get a slightly bigger refund.
Were you not able to take the child tax credit? That ended up more than making up the loss of exemptions for my family.
 

infinitys_7th

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Depends on the income level. If the household income is 38k then it's better not to owe. I rather have a phat check.
Why would you rather get a refund? That is just giving the government an interest-free loan.

I doubt he actually owed more taxes - he simply underwithheld, and thus kept money which should have gone towards his tax liability.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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First the narrative was that Trump's tax cuts were the biggest wealth grab in modern history.

Then as more people said "nah, these are helping the little guys too", the narrative shifted to admitting that it's helping workers a bit, but not as much as we'd like, and it's only for a handful of high-profile examples. Sure, the tax cuts were working for some people, but the general US workforce isn't benefitting enough!

Now as more facts come out, the narrative shifts to "okay, so 65 % of people paid less in taxes, so the general US workforce is definitely benefitting, but compare that to what the RICH GOT! It seems so unfair that the rich would get a bigger cut than the 'little guy' did!"

It's not difficult to see the inconsistency there. You just have to... you know... listen to what the talking heads are saying. They contradict themselves all the time.
 

Yoshi

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Are you proposing that tax cuts should mostly benefit the people who pay no taxes?
Low and middle income, not no income. You can lower the lower tax brackets and the tax-free amount and at the same time increase higher tax brackets or introduce new top tax brackets and make sure that a tax break only lowers taxes for lower or middle income people, while keeping constant or raising (and thus potentially making it a net-0 game for government) taxes on high incomes. Which is what I think would be sensible in the US (and also Germany, but not necessarily in all countries, it depends on the tax structure).
 

bigedole

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Low and middle income, not no income. You can lower the lower tax brackets and the tax-free amount and at the same time increase higher tax brackets or introduce new top tax brackets and make sure that a tax break only lowers taxes for lower or middle income people, while keeping constant or raising (and thus potentially making it a net-0 game for government) taxes on high incomes. Which is what I think would be sensible in the US (and also Germany, but not necessarily in all countries, it depends on the tax structure).
This just shows how little you know about the American tax system and how it feeds into Federal government revenue. Prior to these tax cuts, the top 20% of earners (by all means, not even everyone who is "high income") accounted for nearly 90% of the total income tax burden. The bottom 80% of tax payers paid only 10% of the total collected income tax. Your comment looks very stupid when put in this context. The math on this did not change in 2018. Top 20% paid 87% of the income taxes after the tax cut.

When your rich are paying nearly all of the income taxes that are paid in the country, it seems very dumb to be upset that your rich are the ones benefitting from tax cuts. They're still paying monumentally more than everyone else, and their share of the total income taxes paid actually increased from 2017 to 2018.

Your ideas are very misguided, raising taxes further on the rich will not appreciably increase federal government revenue. I suggest you spend 30 minutes this morning and read about how the Scandinavian countries have modeled their tax system (and compare who bears the burden of the taxes there with the ones I offered for the US), I suspect you will be surprised at how it's structured. There's a valid conversation to be had about which might be better, and the need/role of a big centralized government in our every day lives. I am thankful that the US founding fathers had strong ideas on that front and the ground work they laid has made the US much slower to be consumed by those ideas.
 

Bolivar687

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It's so crazy to take a step back and look at how hard the press fight against Congress and the President giving everyone a tax break and fueling the economy.
 

Gandara

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Were you not able to take the child tax credit? That ended up more than making up the loss of exemptions for my family.
Yes, but only 1000 for one of the children. The other is over 17, so that credit doesn't apply but other is going to college. Next year that credit is going to be only 500 since she's 17. I typically have about 50,000 is deductions but with all the changes it reduced it to close to 30,000. I'll try to crunch out the numbers later to better explain what changed and why I couldn't make up the difference. A lot of the deductions came from owning a house in California.
 

ssolitare

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First the narrative was that Trump's tax cuts were the biggest wealth grab in modern history.

Then as more people said "nah, these are helping the little guys too", the narrative shifted to admitting that it's helping workers a bit, but not as much as we'd like, and it's only for a handful of high-profile examples. Sure, the tax cuts were working for some people, but the general US workforce isn't benefitting enough!

Now as more facts come out, the narrative shifts to "okay, so 65 % of people paid less in taxes, so the general US workforce is definitely benefitting, but compare that to what the RICH GOT! It seems so unfair that the rich would get a bigger cut than the 'little guy' did!"

It's not difficult to see the inconsistency there. You just have to... you know... listen to what the talking heads are saying. They contradict themselves all the time.
Since the very beginning we argued about the disproportionate tax cut situation. Corprorations got permanent tax cuts, while the middle class got expiring cuts.

This link addresses the counter concerns at the time (with actual findings through that point in time). https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tax-plan-consequences/
 

Sub_Level

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Mate, use your brain. Obviously if you pay more in taxes, you save more from a tax cut.
Consider this:



Under the TCJA, corporations went from paying 35% to 21% on their taxable income. This was a historically huge cut to entities that already get away with paying proportionally low tax relative to the revenue they generate. Your premise of paying more thus saving more is flawed because the effective tax rate of corps has been diminishing over time. They earn more and pay less. Wages are not rising in proportion to corporate profits. And a 14% decrease in taxes is much bigger than the 2% decrease us mere mortals got.
 

ssolitare

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They'll be even less permanent if the Democrats get their dirty hands on them.
Your and my tax cuts are not permanent, and they never will be.

Our tax burden goes up each year, and by 2027 every income group below $75,000 will actually see a tax increase compared to Obama era.

Will the tax plan change by then? Yes. But was this tax implementation excessively gushing for the rich, and appetizers for the rest? Yes it was. They could have done more for the middle.
 
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ssolitare

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Congress can extend them as much as they want. But don't count on the greedy Democrats to do that. They love tax increases.
On the rich, or on everyone else if the trade-off is something like universal healthcare.

You should be able to see that this tax plan is primarily a hand job to the super rich. What's actually useful is a plan that gives the middle class a hand job. This isn't it.
 
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On the rich, or on everyone else if the trade-off is something like universal healthcare.
You want Congress to use tax cuts that are already in place as a bargaining chip for what would surely amount to another tax increase? Please do. That's a loser campaign promise.

You should be able to see that this tax plan is primarily a hand job to the super rich.
It's proportionate. We've covered this a number of times.