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New Zealand gun lobby backs ban after Christchurch mosques attack

Nobody_Important

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May 22, 2018
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New Zealand will crack down on firearms ownership this week after the Christchurch mosques massacre that killed 50 people.

In stark contrast to the United States, where even the most minor curbs on gun ownership meet ferocious opposition led by the National Rifle Association, New Zealand gun owners agree action is needed. "We want to support our government in any changes to prevent a terrorist attack from happening in New Zealand again," said Nicole McKee, secretary of the Council of Licensed Firearm Owners.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern's government announced an immediate ban on military-style semi-automatic rifles (MSSAs) after the shooting and will put laws to parliament formalising its action on Tuesday. Finalising such legislation can often take months but Ardern said the matter was so urgent it will be done by April 11. "Be assured this is just the beginning of the work we'll be doing," Ardern told a news conference last month. "It's in the national interest and it's about safety ... to prevent an act of terror from ever happening again in our country," she said of the ban. Further curbs - potentially including a gun register, tighter vetting and stricter gun storage rules - are set to be passed by the end of the year.

One of New Zealand's largest gun retailers, Hunting & Fishing, voluntarily stopped selling MSSAs and halted online firearms sales. "Such weapons of war have no place in our business or our country," said chief executive Darren Jacobs.

New Zealand has its own National Rifle Association, but since the shooting, it has taken great pains to point out it is a small sporting organisation, not a wealthy political lobby group like its American counterpart. "Our members shoot with single-shot bolt action rifles at paper targets," said president Malcolm Dodson.

The suspect, self-confessed white supremacist Brenton Tarrant, is expected to appear in court on April 5. He is expected to face more charges of murder during the hearing in which he is set to represent himself. In a rambling "manifesto", Tarrant said he was motivated partly by a desire to stoke religious conflict between Islam and the West by targetting "invaders".

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...istchurch-mosques-attack-190401040859005.html


So even the gun retailers and the gun enthusiasts themselves are backing this movement. I feel almost embarrassed by how easy New Zealand is making this process look. Especially when you compare it to the political Shit-Circus that the US goes through everytime there an incident like this. Which is sadly far too often.
 
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JordanN

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In stark contrast to the United States, where even the most minor curbs on gun ownership meet ferocious opposition led by the National Rifle Association, New Zealand gun owners agree action is needed. "We want to support our government in any changes to prevent a terrorist attack from happening in New Zealand again," said Nicole McKee, secretary of the Council of Licensed Firearm Owners.

So only guns are used in terror attacks?
What about bombs? Or even knives?

Because just blaming guns is incredibly short sighted.
 

Cunth

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May 22, 2018
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Because isn’t it just a show for the press? Someone posted in another thread that you could still get rifles that aren’t ‘military style’ that are exactly the same
 

Nobody_Important

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May 22, 2018
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So only guns are used in terror attacks?
What about bombs? Or even knives?

Because just blaming guns is incredibly short sighted.

Right??? I mean why try and fix one problem if it doesn't fix ALL of the problems at the exact same time!




Absolutely ridiculous line of logic lol
 

Papa

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Do you think the conditions in America and New Zealand are exactly the same?

I don’t think you understand the conservative argument for guns at all or how it relates to the first amendment and, by extension, global politics and general Western freedom.
 

JordanN

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Right??? I mean why try and fix one problem if it doesn't fix ALL of the problems at the exact same time!




Absolutely ridiculous line of logic lol
Fix one problem, by screwing over all legal gun owners in the process.
Might as well ban cars and knives too while you're at it. Same pretense exists.
 
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MisterFalcon

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Mar 12, 2013
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Because isn’t it just a show for the press? Someone posted in another thread that you could still get rifles that aren’t ‘military style’ that are exactly the same

No, that's where people were arguing that bullets with 10% the energy of the ones being banned are just as deadly.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
May 22, 2018
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Fix one problem, by screwing over all legal gun owners.
Might as well ban cars too while you're at it.

The gun owners and retailers themselves are in support of this measure. Did you even read the OP?
 

Lanrutcon

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Feb 19, 2014
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I almost want to say they realise that if they opposed it, they wouldn't win. Instead of looking bad in the public's eye in the wake of the tragedy they've decided to go along with it.

But that's speculation.
 

highrider

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Do you think the conditions in America and New Zealand are exactly the same?

I don’t think you understand the conservative argument for guns at all or how it relates to the first amendment and, by extension, global politics and general Western freedom.

Yep. I doubt it would ever occur to a lot of people that it’s own government could become tyrannical and you would be completely defenseless. Fortunately America experienced this firsthand.
 

finowns

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The gun owners and retailers themselves are in support of this measure. Did you even read the OP?

I very much doubt New Zealand gun owners want to give away their property. What percentage of them said they’d give up their guns?
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
May 22, 2018
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I very much doubt New Zealand gun owners want to give away their property. What percentage of them said they’d give up their guns?

I don't know about the exact percentages, but the article clearly shows that a significant portion of them are willing to do exactly that.

In stark contrast to the United States, where even the most minor curbs on gun ownership meet ferocious opposition led by the National Rifle Association, New Zealand gun owners agree action is needed. "We want to support our government in any changes to prevent a terrorist attack from happening in New Zealand again," said Nicole McKee, secretary of the Council of Licensed Firearm Owners.
 
Feb 22, 2018
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That manifesto is like a point by point prophecy. Of course Al Jazeera is peddling these virtue signalling stories and drawing comparisons with the US. It's what he told them to do in his manifesto.

Aside from this, anybody that is cowered into sudden change after a terror attack, is by definition a coward. Americans have the right idea, after every terror attack or attempt to take away liberties, Americans go out and purchase more firearms. It is why you are still a superpower. But this won't last, there are some shady characters infecting your establishment, peddling this sort of defeatism.
 
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Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
May 22, 2018
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Aside from this, anybody that is cowered into sudden change after a terror attack, is by definition a coward.

I didn't realize you considered the US a coward. Because after 9/11 the US enacted countless sudden changes to the entire country.
 
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Feb 22, 2018
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I didn't realize you considered the US a coward. Because after 9/11 the US enacted countless sudden changes to the entire country.

At the federal level with the patriot act sure, the constitution was shat on. At the societal and state level, not so much. The most anti-constitutional egregious thing to come out of 9/11 was Obama's drone strike of US citizens, and prior to that Bush's secret CIA prisons. Day-day life changed very little if at all. IN New Zealand people are being jailed for reading forbidden text.

The scale of the attack absorbed is on a different level. If New Zealand experienced 9/11 it would be a totalitarian police state right now.

Keep in mind us New Zealanders and Aussies are having to connect to US VPN servers to properly access the internet in 2019. White Americans are still largely free relative to the rest of the planet, your prison system filled with millions of Blacks and Mexicans notwithstanding.
 
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old

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Please remove his name from the OP post. Don’t give him the notoriety he wants. No one should know his name.
 

Teletraan1

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I don't know about the exact percentages, but the article clearly shows that a significant portion of them are willing to do exactly that.

Not really. They opened up voluntary gun turn ins and snagged a whopping 37 guns out of 1.2 million. A few people virtue signalled and you are eating up bullshit that New Zealand is some tolerant place but the states and the nefarious NRA are stalwarts.
 

rivv3r

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You're linking to Al Jazeera? What next, Stormfront when talking about black crime? You should be embarrassed, OP, but you're probably too stupid.
 

autoduelist

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They should arm and train citizens to prevent these events, not take away the guns from a society with already high gun control and low gun crime.

36 minutes for police to respond. Where's the outrage about that?

And I'm glad the US is slow to react to gun control and censorship types. That's not just a feature, it's a true blessing. We have a constitution that understands that rights are ours, not given by government.
 

autoduelist

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I didn't realize you considered the US a coward. Because after 9/11 the US enacted countless sudden changes to the entire country.

Unfortunately, even the constitution doesn't always protect against authoritaritarians that want to takes guns, free speech, and right to assemble [among others] away. It still slows them down, and blocks them entirely on even more occasions. And when they do overstep, we have recourse in the Supreme Court to have them review and throw out any unconstitutional laws legislated by people overreacting.

Contextually, you are using the awful Patriot Act to suggest moving quickly can be a good thing. No, its absolute evidence even the most free country on the planet makes mistakes when reacting out of emotion and relying on authority outside ourselves to keep us safe.

They say their are no atheists in foxholes. As an atheist, I'm pretty sure I'd stay one. But I'm pretty sure most adults so horribly unfortunate to be in a horrific situation like this wish they had a gun to at least try to protect themselves and their loved ones.
 
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oagboghi2

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Apr 15, 2018
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Please remove his name from the OP post. Don’t give him the notoriety he wants. No one should know his name.
lol why not. You dumbasses are literally doing exactly what he wanted.

He is the most influential Aussie in years
 

Trojita

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Feb 9, 2009
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That manifesto is like a point by point prophecy. Of course Al Jazeera is peddling these virtue signalling stories and drawing comparisons with the US. It's what he told them to do in his manifesto.

Aside from this, anybody that is cowered into sudden change after a terror attack, is by definition a coward. Americans have the right idea, after every terror attack or attempt to take away liberties, Americans go out and purchase more firearms. It is why you are still a superpower. But this won't last, there are some shady characters infecting your establishment, peddling this sort of defeatism.
That isn't why America is a superpower lol. Engineers and Scientists creating the technologies used in the 21st century are keeping us ahead, not some bucktooth inbred that has to buy his 26th rifle for his gun collection. People are mentioning reactionary actions which can be bad (see the patriot act), but you are praising reactionary consumerism that has some jimbob picking up more guns and ammo because "Da gubmint gonna take my gunnnns". The gun manufacturers love dumb people like that.
 
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autoduelist

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So only guns are used in terror attacks?
What about bombs? Or even knives?

Because just blaming guns is incredibly short sighted.

London knife crime is booming.

By far, the most gun deaths are suicides, and analysis of other countries shows suicide victims simply choose different techniques if they don't have a gun. Almost all the rest is gang violence, the very people who will have illegal guns regardless of gun control.

19 dead knife attack Japan 2016
https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/world/japan-knife-attack-deaths/index.html

9 students dead, knife attack 2018
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-43921567

[Plenty more examples, just grabbed a couple recent ones]

In 2010 through 2012, China had a ton of knife, cleaver, and hammer attacks
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_(2010–12)

London Confronts a Spate of Murders, With Most Victims Killed by Knives
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/07/world/europe/london-murders-knife-attacks-stabbing.html

And let's not even get into cars and rental trucks.


Guns are not the cause of mass murders, or murders in general. People going on certain meds with side effects like disassociation, people taking conflicting meds, people going off their meds is part of it. Single parent households with a lack of discipline [seriously, most Male killers had no Male role model] is part of it. An educational system that fails many. We can point to the real causes all day long, but the gun control advocates just cover their ears.

The single best way to protect soft targets is to harden them. The single best way to protect yourself is to be trained and armed. A soft target full of people able to protect themselves is no longer soft. Facts.
 
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Trojita

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By far, the most gun deaths are suicides, and analysis of other countries shows suicide victims simply choose different techniques if they don't have a gun. Almost all the rest is gang violence, the very people who will have illegal guns regardless of gun control.
Isn't the problem pointed out in those studies that guns are almost always lethal during suicide attempts while the other attempts can often fail, especially self poisoning with over the counter / prescription drugs?
 

rivv3r

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How long until all of the men in New Zealand cut their dicks off to prevent rape?
 

Oemenia

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Jan 31, 2010
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London knife crime is booming.

By far, the most gun deaths are suicides, and analysis of other countries shows suicide victims simply choose different techniques if they don't have a gun. Almost all the rest is gang violence, the very people who will have illegal guns regardless of gun control.

19 dead knife attack Japan 2016
https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/world/japan-knife-attack-deaths/index.html

9 students dead, knife attack 2018
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-43921567

[Plenty more examples, just grabbed a couple recent ones]

In 2010 through 2012, China had a ton of knife, cleaver, and hammer attacks
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_(2010–12)

London Confronts a Spate of Murders, With Most Victims Killed by Knives
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/07/world/europe/london-murders-knife-attacks-stabbing.html

And let's not even get into cars and rental trucks.


Guns are not the cause of mass murders, or murders in general. People going on certain meds with side effects like disassociation, people taking conflicting meds, people going off their meds is part of it. Single parent households with a lack of discipline [seriously, most Male killers had no Male role model] is part of it. An educational system that fails many. We can point to the real causes all day long, but the gun control advocates just cover their ears.

The single best way to protect soft targets is to harden them. The single best way to protect yourself is to be trained and armed. A soft target full of people able to protect themselves is no longer soft. Facts.
Suicide victims don't use assault rifles.

Also the London knife crime thing is just alt-right BS. Its been a problem here for ages but only a funny named brown guy becomes mayor it becomes about the children.
 

autoduelist

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Isn't the problem pointed out in those studies that guns are almost always lethal during suicide attempts while the other attempts can often fail, especially self poisoning with over the counter / prescription drugs?

That just conflates attempts vs success. If it takes a person 3 tries to succeed with pills, does that make pills safer?

Besides, this doesn't change the fact that I was pointing out, that most gun deaths are suicide. We know they will just try another method, and yes, perhaps several times. But if you remove suicide and gang related deaths, US gun deaths arent actually that high. Since most suicides will occur regardless, and gangs just turn to knives [see London's current catastrophe, for example], it is far from a given that gun control would reduce violence in america.

Japan, for example, has very little gun crime but a higher suicide rate than the US.


Suicide victims don't use assault rifles.

Also the London knife crime thing is just alt-right BS. Its been a problem here for ages but only a funny named brown guy becomes mayor it becomes about the children.

Yeah, alt right, ok. a simple search of Google with BBC in the terms shows they talk about it al the time.

Here's a program from March 19th of this year called
Stabbed: Britain's Knife Crime Crisis
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0740bsw

Here's an article from yesterday:
Knife crime: More stop and search powers for police
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47760645

Is BBC altright now? I get that some people dont want to hear about knife crime, but it's disgusting you would label people and journalists altright for discussing it.

Second, 'assault rifles' just mean semi-automatic, since fully automatic is already illegal in the US. We cant seriously be talking about banning semis in the states... that's hilarious. Besides, Most gun crimes and violence in the US are committed by people with handguns.

If most suicides are committed by hand guns, and vastly more crime and violence is committed by handguns, why are we talking about rifles mostly used for hunting?
 
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infinitys_7th

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Oct 1, 2006
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Please remove his name from the OP post. Don’t give him the notoriety he wants. No one should know his name.

Too late. New Zealand already banned guns and arresting people for speech in his name. They have done far more to memorialize him and legitimize his terrorism than saying "Brenton Tarrant" ever will.
 
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juliotendo

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Doesn’t matter anyways. A decade from now New Zealand will be under Chinese control. At the rate NZ is going, maybe sooner.
 
Feb 22, 2018
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That isn't why America is a superpower lol. Engineers and Scientists creating the technologies used in the 21st century are keeping us ahead, not some bucktooth inbred that has to buy his 26th rifle for his gun collection. People are mentioning reactionary actions which can be bad (see the patriot act), but you are praising reactionary consumerism that has some jimbob picking up more guns and ammo because "Da gubmint gonna take my gunnnns". The gun manufacturers love dumb people like that.

Your militarism keeps you ahead. It's built into the gun culture. 90% of your military volunteers are bucktooth inbreds that went hunting with daddy. But that's not going to last. All Empires begin to weaken and fall when they stop expanding or stop seeking to expand.

Germany and Japan have no shortage of industry, economic might, engineers and scientists. And yet they aren't even world powers anymore. They don't even get to decide what goes on in their respective regions and in many respects outside powers dictate their policies at home and abroad. They are missing that vital ingredient called expansionism. It goes hand in hand with militarism.

I'm not saying Imperialism is good for those it dominates. I'm just saying it's good for the Imperial elite. Those happen to be White Americans for now, as were the Biritsh once upon a time. But with that kind of attitude, not for much longer. It is sobering when you wake up one day, under the dominance of outside forces.
 
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T

Transhuman

Unconfirmed Member
Because those not in support will be immediately tarred and feathered.

Yeah, lets ignore the will of the people to spare the feelings of a few out-of-touch gun enthusiasts.

Maybe gay marriage shouldn't be legalised either. After all, think of all people against it who might get tarred and feathered :(. When you think about it, arn't they the real victims.
 
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Ke0

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Aug 10, 2012
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Yep. I doubt it would ever occur to a lot of people that it’s own government could become tyrannical and you would be completely defenseless. Fortunately America experienced this firsthand.

Yup when the government turned tyrannical and put citizens in internment camps and fellow Americans armed themselves to stop the government…
 
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DKehoe

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Jun 19, 2007
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So only guns are used in terror attacks?
What about bombs? Or even knives?

As a spokesman for the Bomb Lobby I can confirm that we violently strongly oppose any anti-bomb legislation that would infringe on the rights of the many freedom loving bomb enthusiasts.
 
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BraveOne

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Feb 2, 2017
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So only guns are used in terror attacks?
What about bombs? Or even knives?

Because just blaming guns is incredibly short sighted.

Guns where used in this terror attack so they take the spotlight. How is that hard to understand
 

Hotspurr

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Jan 27, 2018
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I have yet to hear a compelling arguement against gun control. Let's take the US for example:

1. About a third of the country or more are obese, either for lack of education or ignorance. They can barely control their eating, you want me to be comfortable with giving these people guns?

2. Many people who get guns and do bad things with them are mentally unstable. More regulation/checks will address this, how is that a bad idea? It could especially help prevent suicide, as majority of the time suicide is not warranted (ie. People are mentally depressed and that's a medical condition not necessarily a reality of a truly bad life).

3. The 2nd amendment is the longest running joke in the US Constitution. It explicitly operates under the assumption that government and citizens have comparable power. Are you trying to tell me a government with drones, missiles and the latest tech will have a problem with untrained overweight shmucks in motorized scooters?

4. Gun regulation doesn't mean guns go away. It just means as a society we agree to impose safety precautions to limit the danger of guns. We do this for many other dangerous tools, eg. Cars.

5. At the very least more gun regulation will prevent crazy people from getting them. You may not affect the criminals but you certainly won't affect sensible people who want to legally get them.

Seems to me there is a sensible solution for guns but it once again gets rolled into a political thing about left vs. right.

The absolute funniest thing for me is when right wingers yell "oh common libs, getting voter ID is super easy and having laws around it won't prevent people from voting" and then they turn around and "oh common having gun regulation will prevent good citizens from getting guns, so unfair!".

Gimme a break.
 

oagboghi2

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Apr 15, 2018
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I have yet to hear a compelling arguement against gun control. Let's take the US for example:

1. About a third of the country or more are obese, either for lack of education or ignorance. They can barely control their eating, you want me to be comfortable with giving these people guns?

2. Many people who get guns and do bad things with them are mentally unstable. More regulation/checks will address this, how is that a bad idea? It could especially help prevent suicide, as majority of the time suicide is not warranted (ie. People are mentally depressed and that's a medical condition not necessarily a reality of a truly bad life).

3. The 2nd amendment is the longest running joke in the US Constitution. It explicitly operates under the assumption that government and citizens have comparable power. Are you trying to tell me a government with drones, missiles and the latest tech will have a problem with untrained overweight shmucks in motorized scooters?

4. Gun regulation doesn't mean guns go away. It just means as a society we agree to impose safety precautions to limit the danger of guns. We do this for many other dangerous tools, eg. Cars.

5. At the very least more gun regulation will prevent crazy people from getting them. You may not affect the criminals but you certainly won't affect sensible people who want to legally get them.

Seems to me there is a sensible solution for guns but it once again gets rolled into a political thing about left vs. right.

The absolute funniest thing for me is when right wingers yell "oh common libs, getting voter ID is super easy and having laws around it won't prevent people from voting" and then they turn around and "oh common having gun regulation will prevent good citizens from getting guns, so unfair!".

Gimme a break.
1. What does obesity have to do with guns
2. Mentally ill people will hurt themselves with or without a gun
3. Why do you think disrespecting the Constitution will make me more likely to support your ideas? I support the Constitution, all of it.
4. Gun regulation means the government believes they can control and, well regulate the citizenry. Why would I support having my rights restricted despite the fact I have done nothing wrong?

Also, the government doesn't prevent crazy people from driving
5. Again, the government doesn't prevent crazy people from doing crazy things with objects such as cars.

I'll bet your "sensible solution" is to punish legal gun owners and perform a shitton of Kabuki theatre that accomplishes nothing
 
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Hotspurr

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Jan 27, 2018
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1. What does obesity have to do with guns
2. Mentally ill people will hurt themselves with or without a gun
3. Why do you think disrespecting the Constitution will make me more likely to support your ideas? I support the Constitution, all of it.
4. Gun regulation means the government believes they can control and, well regulate the citizenry. Why would I support having my rights restricted despite the fact I have done nothing wrong?

Also, the government doesn't prevent crazy people from driving
5. Again, the government doesn't prevent crazy people from doing crazy things with objects such as cars.

I'll bet your "sensible solution" is to punish legal gun owners and perform a shitton of Kabuki theatre that accomplishes nothing

In this case my goal would not to be to convince you, but to make an example of people like you with mediocre rebuttals so that people with critical thinking skills can really get to the bottom of what's going on. So I guess thanks for the contribution?