Next Gen Consoles 60FPS vs. 30FPS

Pimpbaa

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Bullshit. Anyone who says this needs to book an appointment with the eye doctor immediately.

The difference between a game at 4K and 1080p is night and day obvious.

Heck even on a 13.3 display I can tell the difference, although at size I wouldn’t pay the premium over 1080p,

I have no issue with anyone who says they are OK with 1080p, but saying that most can’t tell the difference is not true.
The difference between 1080p native and 4k downscaled is a night and day difference on my 1080p TV.
 

Skyr

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The correct answer is options!

It doesn't have to be as extensive as on PC but there should be at least 2-3 predefined performance options to choose from.
The best example for this is Nioh.

PS4 Pro, HD display. Option 1: “Movie Mode”
Stable 1920×1080 resolution with high quality anti-aliasing at 30fps
PS4 Pro, HD display. Option 2: “Action Mode”
Stable 1920×1080 resolution at 60fps
PS4 Pro, 4K display. Option 1: “Movie Mode”
Stable 3840×2160 resolution at 30fps
PS4 Pro, 4K display. Option 2: “Action Mode”
Stable 1920×1080 resolution at 60fps

EVERYBODY WINS
 

Shifty1897

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I would love to see a focus on 60 fps on next gen, but we all know how this will go:

Consoles are there for 30 fps, gaming PC's are there for 60 fps+.
 

Ian Henry

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I would love to see 60 FPS return again. I just don't understand why people and devs think 60 FPS isn't cinematic. It actually is and can be when it wants to.
 
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radewagon

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The correct answer is options!

It doesn't have to be as extensive as on PC but there should be at least 2-3 predefined performance options to choose from.
The best example for this is Nioh.

PS4 Pro, HD display. Option 1: “Movie Mode”
Stable 1920×1080 resolution with high quality anti-aliasing at 30fps
PS4 Pro, HD display. Option 2: “Action Mode”
Stable 1920×1080 resolution at 60fps
PS4 Pro, 4K display. Option 1: “Movie Mode”
Stable 3840×2160 resolution at 30fps
PS4 Pro, 4K display. Option 2: “Action Mode”
Stable 1920×1080 resolution at 60fps

EVERYBODY WINS
Totes agree. I think this whole either/or argument is obsolete.
 

deriks

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I could give an example: playing Red Dead Redemption 2 easily on 720p if it was 60fps if I had the option.

Frames are way more attractive than resolution, and even better if the game is good looking as RDR2
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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These graphics have been good enough since late PS3/360 era. If I want more cinematic, I'll watch an actual movie.

Aim for 60 FPS.
Yep.

30fps (even with sub-30 dips) is perfectly playable, but it amuses me how hobbyist gamers don't demand better framerates when it directly affects gameplay. I still play old games in 240p because the responsiveness and fluidity prevents them from aging as noticeably. Meanwhile, graphical powerhouse "classics" like Star Fox and Shadow of the Colossus (PS2 ver) are nearly unbearable.
 
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bitbydeath

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I could give an example: playing Red Dead Redemption 2 easily on 720p if it was 60fps if I had the option.

Frames are way more attractive than resolution, and even better if the game is good looking as RDR2
Additional framerate won’t fix that mess.
 
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But that's the point about how the switch to 3D graphics meant developers almost always sacrifice frame rate first.

In the SNES/Genesis days that was completely unheard of. Instead, you got "slow downs" because there was too much gameplay on screen, but you still had all games across the board running at 60fps.

When the PS1/N64 dropped, the shift to 3D polygons completely changed that. Most gameplay took a backseat so developers could fill it with prettier graphics instead. This caught on and only the PC space remains the last place for 60fps as a [consistent] option.

30fps perfectly fine for me. I'd much rather prefer improved graphics over 60fps. Fight me you silly jabronis.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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But that's the point about how the switch to 3D graphics meant developers almost always sacrifice frame rate first.

In the SNES/Genesis days that was completely unheard of. Instead, you got "slow downs" because there was too much gameplay on screen, but you still had all games across the board running at 60fps.

When the PS1/N64 dropped, the shift to 3D polygons completely changed that. Most gameplay took a backseat so developers could fill it with prettier graphics instead. This caught on and only the PC space remains the last place for 60fps as a [consistent] option.
Yup. Back in the cartridge days, even NES games ran smooth most of the time. You got slow down and flicker, but most of the time it was smooth.

NES came out 35 years ago.
 
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Can't decide

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I expect 30fps to be the norm but I will always hope they aim for 60fps as a minimum and 120fps as an option. Frame rate matters more to gameplay than resolution.

It is (to me) far easy to drop from 4K to 1080p, than it is to go from 120fps to 30fps, it makes everything choppy and sluggish.
 

Tako Ou

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They simply need to make it a standard to have at least two modes on console (like Nioh and his performance mode and high resolution mode).
If we could have a 60fps stable remaster of Bloodborne on next gen, I am instantly in.
 

Azelover

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Yeah, framerate is the one thing I really care about.

I can't believe that we're in 2019 and we still don't have 60fps in all games. I don't care so much about resolution, it's good enough now that we can have a clear enough picture that won't affect the game play experience that much. 60fps however makes a huge difference to me.
 
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SonGoku

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Give me 30fps or give me death
I’ll even take 1080p to maximize the graphics leap
The correct answer is options!
This only works on pc
On consoles devs design their game around a given target
 
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DESTROYA

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Honest question, how many people actually have @ 8K TV? I’m guessing it’s a very small percentage
Not sure why console makers are targeting 8K when most people can’t even benefit from it, I’m guessing they’ll have a performance mode for better frame rates at lower resolution like the PS4 PRO.
 

bitbydeath

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Honest question, how many people actually have @ 8K TV? I’m guessing it’s a very small percentage
Not sure why console makers are targeting 8K when most people can’t even benefit from it, I’m guessing they’ll have a performance mode for better frame rates at lower resolution like the PS4 PRO.
Sony wants to sell their 8K TV’s.
MS doesn’t want their console to come off as a lesser machine.
 

DESTROYA

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Sony wants to sell their 8K TV’s.
MS doesn’t want their console to come off as a lesser machine.
I get that but 8K TV’s are very expensive and most console gamers are not going to spend 4-5 thousand dollars for a new TV just to show off there new console.
 
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With Zen2 I see no reason why EVERY game can't have 60 fps lower rez option. [default 4K30 and an option for 1080p60 in menus]
 

Psajdak

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Metal Gear Solid HD collection for PS3 looks better than Death Stranding thanks to running at 60fps.

Anyway, PS4 Pro was a dissapointment for me, and wasted money cause 30fps almost everywhere...

If PS5 repeats the story, I'm completely turning to PC, matter the exclusives.
 
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bilderberg

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30 fps games can at least be made 60 fps on next "next" gen or pc, but 60 fps games will always look like shit.
 
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Iorv3th

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I think he means it's not as bigger jump compare to SD to HD. I have $300 43 inch 4K TV and in all honestly the difference is not that huge.
You have a really cheap shitty 4k TV and that is likely why you are saying there isn't a difference.

30 fps games can at least be made 60 fps on next "next" gen or pc, but 60 fps games will always look like shit.
This has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read on the internet.
 

Romulus

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I think the PS5 generation is the perfect time to have alot of 60fps games, even if 4k games have dynamic resolution.


With Zen2 I see no reason why EVERY game can't have 60 fps lower rez option. [default 4K30 and an option for 1080p60 in menus]

I see no reason that zen2 CPU and 9TF+ GPU combo can't run most any game at 1800p checkerboard 60fps in a performance mode, so long as raytracing is disabled.
 
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Consoles haven't been 60fps since the SNES/Genesis.

Ever since games moved onto 3D graphics, developers always sacrifice frame rate for more shinier effects instead.

I just buy most of my multiplats on PC since you are given a choice on this. Console games wont change for a long time.
6th gen had a ton of 60fps games.

7th gen is when the 30fps became more standard.
 
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I don't see how you can or should enforce "solid 60fps". However, I think there will be much more 60fps games as a natural progression of the hardware, and I would prefer they sacrifice resolution to achieve this goal this time around.

On the PS4 there is a good proportion of 60fps titles than in the ps360 days, and the 30FPS titles are better locked than before, this is why I am optimist for the next generation.

I don't think that navi 2 based CPUs will be the bottleneck this time around.
 
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UltimaKilo

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I hate that it has to be a choice. I love 4K and how crisp it looks, but I would welcome 60fps in certain games. So it depends on the game.

Unfortunately, 4K/60 may end up being a feature for the mid-cycle refresh. PS5 Pro!
 

Shmunter

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60fps will be the hallmark of next gen, nothing to worry about. And any game that opts for 30 for whatever reason, will offer a performance mode too.

Speculation to be sure, but not without logical merit.
 

bilderberg

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Because side by side the same game at 30fps vs 60fps and you would never say "oh the smoother one looks shittier".
So your argument is that "shitty" is too strong a word? That's not really addressing the point I was making. But if you do look at a 30fps game like DmC, versus a 60 fps game like Metal Gear Rising. Rising does kind of look like shit in comparison. And with the pc release and ps4/xone version now running at 60 fps, the 60 fps advantage Rising once had is now gone, yet DmC gets to keep the advantage of still looking pretty good. Just look at every remaster from the past 2-3 generations. All the Halo titles before 5, RE4, Uncharted series, TLOU, and so many more once 30 fps games are now 60. And if you're a pc gamer you definitely still want consoles targeting 30 fps. And with enhanced backwards compatible games for sure being a standard now, remasters wont even need to happen now for your once 30 fps game to be 60fps.
 

JordanN

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6th gen had a ton of 60fps games.

7th gen is when the 30fps became more standard.
I would say 6th gen was so massive that a lot of 60fps games helped distract from the 30fps ones.

Like, the mainline Mario game for Gamecube started off and was demonstrated at 60fps, but at release, Nintendo downgraded Super Mario Sunshine to run at 30fps (to their credit, this might have done with the CPU. I can't remember if the final Gamecube specs upclocked or downclocked the CPU. Sunshine also utilized a very complex physics system so at least dropping the frame rate was somewhat justified for gameplay reasons).

Funnily enough, the two mainline Mario games on Wii did target 60fps, but the graphics weren't much better as a result.
 
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nkarafo

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Locked 30FPS is all I need.
Most people can’t tell the difference.
We need to stop with this nonsense.

Everyone can tell the difference. The issue is that most people can't put their finger on it. Meaning, they can't define what exactly it is that makes a 60fps game look more pleasing but they can definitely see/feel it.

Also, i find it funny how you, personally, prefer 30fps because other people can't tell the difference as you say. Do you play games for your own enjoyment or to demonstrate them to others?
 
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nkarafo

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I can’t.



30FPS looks just as smooth as 60FPS
You can. Human eyes can. I don't know why your setup hides it from you, the best i can think of is that you are using a motion filter on your TV to smooth out frames (which would be bad for gaming because input lag). And that can make 30fps look like 60 in many cases.

If i was there to demonstrate it to you, you would see it. It's physically impossible to not be able to tell the huge difference between 30 and 60fps. And i'm not aware of any eye condition that "caps the frame rate" of things around you.
 

nkarafo

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How can one not notice the difference? 60 frames per second means you see twice as much of a game in one second.
This gif isn't the best example though, the vase breaking animation looks like it's faster instead of having more frames. Like it's in fast forward. Normally, more frames shouldn't speed up things. They should just make them look smoother.
 
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EightBit Man

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This gif isn't the best example though, the vase breaking animation looks like it's faster instead of having more frames. Like it's in fast forward. Normally, more frames shouldn't speed up things. They should just make them look smoother.
You're right. And the image on the left runs below 30fps I think. Oh well. There's always this: http://www.30vs60fps.com
 
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b0uncyfr0

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I want 4k 60 fps at least or as close to 4k as possible
- 1800p is also acceptable with checkerboarding.
- With more TV's coming out with Freesync and variable tech - the option to unlock frame rates here would be essential to take advantage of it.
- 1080p with 120 fps should be possible for older titles given the Zen CPU's, no more underpowered garbage.
- HDR is a must.
- Ray tracing is 50/50. Depends on the performance hit.

Apart from Ray tracing, if these aren't met - i will keep playing on PC's.
 

bitbydeath

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It's extra noticeable in side scrolling situations since the speed is constant in all parts of the screen.
That’s not how it looks in games though.
The RE was a better example as you have to concentrate hard to try see the difference.
 

nkarafo

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That’s not how it looks in games though.
That's exactly how it looks in games. Play any side scrolling game, say Sonic Generations on a console and then at 60fps on PC. That's exactly the difference.

In 3D games where you move into the center of the screen it may be slightly less noticeable because you focus on the center, where everything moves slower. But you still get the exact same effect around the screen as everything moves faster there.

You don't need to concentrate. If there was a one button toggle between 30 and 60 fps you would feel the massive difference in both visual information and responsiveness as you change it in real time.

The reason you say you can't see the difference is because you don't have a reference and adjust to 30fps faster as your eyes get used to it so it doesn't bother you. I agree that this can change from person to person. I, for instance, don't need a reference and my eyes don't adjust to 30fps as fast because the majority of games i play are 60fps or higher. But everyone can tell the difference in the end.