bitbydeath
Member
That’s still tens of millions more people choosing to rebuy the 30FPS edition over the 60FPS PC version.
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Next Gen Consoles 60FPS vs. 30FPS
- Thread starter Virex
- Start date
That’s still tens of millions more people choosing to rebuy the 30FPS edition over the 60FPS PC version.
bitbydeath
Member
You and 9.999 million others which vastly pales in comparison.
nkarafo
Member
You think these people had a PC that could play the game at 60fps and still chose the console version?
You really think someone would choose the slower/worse version (assuming they know the differences) if they had the means to play the better one? That's absurd.
bitbydeath
Member
I’m saying they don’t care enough to bother forking out for the 60FPS one.
30FPS does the job well enough.
The Mad Draklor
Member
This is an ad hoc fallacy. Assuming your claim to be true, just because more consumers buy the 30fps version over the 60fps version, that doesn't mean they're doing so for the reason of "30fps is good enough".
bitbydeath
Member
It is still not impacting sales. Most consumers don’t care.
nkarafo
Member
Yes, PC gaming at 60fps is a more expensive hobby than a console. Which is why 60fps needs to be a standard on consoles. So you can play at optimal speeds on all platforms and cheaper PC builds.
Seriously, the sacrifice in graphics quality isn't that big if the target is 60fps from the start. Again, look at many 60fps console games on many platforms, the difference isn't huge and sometimes these games are some of the best looking (i already gave some examples from the Gamecube library). You gain a lot by sacrificing a little, graphics today are so good that there is a lot of room to fit 60fps and still make the game look very close to a game that could only push 30fps. Because diminishing returns kick in. Technology has improved a lot since the N64 had to sacrifice a lot to run F-Zero X.
Just look at RE7, RE2 Remake or DOOM 2016. Would you say these games should be 30fps on consoles instead because they don't look good? Can you imagine how worse a frantic game like DOOM would be at 30fps? And by using your own logic, i can tell you the masses will never notice the somewhat lower polygon counts, slightly subtler effects, simpler SSAO methods, cheaper AA solutions, etc, of 60fps games. And everyone will be happy.
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The Mad Draklor
Member
A fallacious argument.
Most consumers not caring =/= Framerate does not impact sales
bitbydeath
Member
I don’t think a 480p-540p version would fly on thePS3/360.
720p would also not be as appealing on Xbox/ PS4.
nkarafo
Member
Resi 7, Re2 Remake, Doom 2016.
These are not 720p. And you are ignoring everything else the developers can tweak that i mentioned in my post. You just need to drop the "720p" bomb because that would look really bad in current year right? Funny thing though, the masses would not care about that either.
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MightySquirrel
Banned
BF and BF are 60 fps on current gen and they are among best looking games .
bitbydeath
Member
Why do you think this?
Obviously if it were a big deal people wouldn’t buy it.
It’s a want not a need.
bitbydeath
Member
You’re ignoring the PS3 / 360 version which would need to drop to 540P at best.
Could even go as low as 360P
The Mad Draklor
Member
It's not what I think. The argument you made was objectively fallacious.
Tell that to developers who make fighting games, shooters, or other games that requires fast reflexes.
nkarafo
Member
I want to see the receipts for that.
You are still ignoring every other graphical aspect a developer can tweak, to push your narrative. Frame rate doesn't depend on resolution alone and you know it.
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bitbydeath
Member
I disagree and I’ve stated my argument for this. What is yours?
Go play Rainbow Six Siege. Can you notice the framerate difference between game modes?
bitbydeath
Member
So instead of taking away from resolution you would instead take the graphical style?
nkarafo
Member
Just from the games in my small 360 collection, Ninja Gaiden 2, RAGE, Forza 4 and Bayonetta run at 60fps and have the same resolution as other 30fps games while still looking better than some of them.
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The Mad Draklor
Member
You can't disagree on something that is objective.
You stated that framerate is still not impacting sales and that most consumers don't care as evidence. However, you have not provided any proof that framerate has a negligent effect on sales.
Your argument is fallacious because those statements are not mutually exclusive. Most consumers can not care about framerate while framerate can impact sales at the same time.
Yes. But how about we go with something more empirical rather than anecdotal?
Playing on a higher framerate led to higher accuracy and higher precision. It's not just a matter of noticing, but also player performance.
nkarafo
Member
If there is a 30fps and 60fps modes, yes, everyone can notice and feel the difference. If they are a human at least.
bitbydeath
Member
Adding framerate impacts the rest of the game and it is up to the devs to decide what is more important.
Often resolution, graphics, animations, AI and gameplay features win out over framerate for this reason, it’s not as important to sale a game.
If everyone’s playing on the same framerate it doesn’t matter.
bitbydeath
Member
There is. Did you notice it when playing?
The Mad Draklor
Member
And most developers who make games that require fast reflexes go 60fps.
Then why have fighting games and shooters not shifted down to 30fps collectively?
Framerate also affects gameplay which is arguably the most important aspect of a game as it allows for more responsive controls.
Non sequitur. If a higher framerate offers a positive effect in player performance, then it actually does matter.
nkarafo
Member
I don't even have to toggle between 30 and 60fps modes to notice it. I can imediatelly tell when a game runs at 30fps because it feels more sluggish and i can see the gap between frames, which is like stutter. 60fps feel more responsive and it's harder to notice the gaps between frames.
We already established how this is false by mentioning all the huge sellers made for the masses. Maybe you have some proof otherwise?
The Mad Draklor
Member
Obviously, Gran Turismo Sport would've sold more if it was 30fps /s
bitbydeath
Member
They didn’t last gen because power was more suited to improve graphics. We still have a few this gen like Destiny that have remained on 30FPS.
Halo 1 -3 are arguably the best in the series and were 30FPS.
It’s minimal in comparison to what everything else brings.
bitbydeath
Member
There’s no toggle on the console versions. 30/60 is automatically applied depending on the game mode.
Just saying it’s false doesn’t make it so, you aren’t even trying to debunk my arguments on the matter.
bitbydeath
Member
The graphics were fine as it was. If it were poor then they most certainly would have focused on it over framerate.
The Mad Draklor
Member
This actually proves my point more than yours as those developers shifted to 60fps this gen.
A few isn't representative of all games either. Your "exceptions are the rule" argument falls flat.
But we're talking about the present, not the past. Currently, the vast majority of developers who make racing games, shooters, fighting games, and other games that require fast reflexes go for 60fps. If framerate did not matter and if 30fps actually has a positive effect on sales, then we would be seeing a lot less 60fps games.
Repeating the same assertion over and over again doesn't make it true.
But graphics sells, you said. So by your logic, Polyphony Digital sacrificed sales in favor for higher framerates.
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n0razi
Member
nkarafo
Member
You say 60fps don't matter for sales and you didn't prove it either. The counter arguments were all the 60fps games that are made for the masses and sell millions and the fact that a whole industry exists to cater to people who want better performance from their games. I don't know what else to tell you.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
240 hz is bullshit
Darius87
Member
there's games genres which prefers 60fps over 30fps but it's not many, i would say mosly one genre that's fps shooters.
fighting, racing for the most part could achieve 60fps because there's much less to render then normal open world game, that's why you'll see these genre at 60fps but that's not for all games.
resolution/gfx fidelity wins over higher fps in most cases, does that affect game sales? for consoles yes, for pc it's hard to say because there many different spec system so individual preference for gfx over fps may vary.
fighting, racing for the most part could achieve 60fps because there's much less to render then normal open world game, that's why you'll see these genre at 60fps but that's not for all games.
resolution/gfx fidelity wins over higher fps in most cases, does that affect game sales? for consoles yes, for pc it's hard to say because there many different spec system so individual preference for gfx over fps may vary.
Whitecrow
Banned
GTA V is a fukn blockbuster, it sold gazillions, just and minecraft. And noone is known for rocksolid 60 fps.
Noone is denying that with 60fps you gain precision. But that doesnt mean anything out of competitive scene, aka CoD and Fortnite.
And "gaming" is a lot lot lot lot more than a a few competitive shooters.
Sony blockbusters are all 30fps and sold millions also.
Making 60fps mandatory just because just in competitive is better is bullshit. Like, total absolute bullshit.
Noone is denying that with 60fps you gain precision. But that doesnt mean anything out of competitive scene, aka CoD and Fortnite.
And "gaming" is a lot lot lot lot more than a a few competitive shooters.
Sony blockbusters are all 30fps and sold millions also.
Making 60fps mandatory just because just in competitive is better is bullshit. Like, total absolute bullshit.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
That "rock solid stable" is a very weird term. It's primarily used for console owners, as no other gamer would accept 30 fps.
Yes, it's a stable framerate. So is 20, 15, or even 10, if you lock them. Doesn't change the fact that it runs like shit though.
It's all about your standards. I guess if you are a competitive player you simple just can't accept 30 fps, as the reaction time is too slow and the game controls are just too clunky.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
The game came out, what? Like two years on consoles before the pc version? Many, including me, bought the game for consoles, and not many double dipped when it came out for pc.
Lets face it. GTA v wasn't that great. It's just popular among younglings because of the sex and violence. It's like saying minecraft and Fortnite are the best games.
Whitecrow
Banned
There's a turning point there, where motions starts to be more clear to human brain.
Cinema is not 24fps for any arbitrary reason.
Skyr
Member
Bullshit.
It’s very likely that devs will aim for at least 4K/30 next gen. So in most cases there should be the option to fall back to 1080/60.
b0uncyfr0
Member
You mean like this generation does with Pro and X1 checkerboarding. Next gen needs to be well above these, i.e native 1440 60 and native 4k 30.
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Skyr
Member
No I mean native 4K as you suggested yourself.
sonomamashine
Member
they didn't risk it because of graphic fidelity, Halo5 graphics were bad, the main goal is to sell more units.
prag16
Banned
In a general sense I definitely like 60fps, but it's also true that not every game/genre really needs it. Competitive online shooters, fast paced action games like Bayonetta, and sports games (especially racing) benefit from 60fps the most. Almost everything else can do fine with 30fps in most cases.
So in short, while I think 60fps is a good target to strive for when possible, no, there shouldn't be an enforced minimum FPS. A ridiculous idea, really to be honest.
So in short, while I think 60fps is a good target to strive for when possible, no, there shouldn't be an enforced minimum FPS. A ridiculous idea, really to be honest.
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MMaRsu
Banned
Consumers do care, that's why CoD was ahead of BF for a LOOOOONG time on consoles ( and still is ).
Because that game was 60fps, casuals just called it "smooth".
If you gave a CoD casual a 30fps game he'd know and call the game slow.
Just because they don't exactly know, they do care.
sunnysideup
Banned
The most important thing for me is that there is no choice regarding resolutions, frame rates or any other settings.
I do not want to adjust anything. I want it to be finely tuned.
I do not want to adjust anything. I want it to be finely tuned.
Otterz4Life
Member
This. No reason why an open world single player games NEEDS to be 60fps. Sure, it’s nice, but devs are ALWAYS going to push the boundaries of graphics and resolution. Especially on fixed hardware like a console. Most competitive games ARE 60fps on console. Fighting games, competitive shooters and platformers are usually 60fps on consoles.
Let’s just get used to the fact that we’ll continue this debate for another 6-8 years when the PS5 and Scarlett both have some games at 30fps and others at 60fps, just like last gen. And the gen before that.
Otterz4Life
Member
You know Zombie mode is a thing, right?
Shangounchained
Banned
There's no point in playing uncharted splinter cell or hitman at 60 FPS detail is more important for such games than frame rates, 60 FPS is only really important in racing games I really don't care if red dead 2 was 60 or 400 FPS people should simply grow up.
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