Next-Gen PS5 & Next Xbox |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

SonGoku

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I am most excited for a new controller because with how console gaming is starting to embrace mouse and keyboard more
heh... kb sucks for gaming its awkward and counter intuitive
I rather they revolutionize gamepads with trackball/trackpad, gyros and paddles.
 
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thelastword

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Wait... are you agreeing with me now? Crazy.
You said something different. You said that Vega was high end and Navi was mid-end..... You also said these Vega and Navi are the same lineup of products.... They are not.....

AMD's statement, the one you keep posting is only in relation to the rtx 2080 and the 1080ti tier.

[QUOTE =ethomaz]
Reading compression I guess?

Navi this year being only mainstream, sucessor of Polaris... so probably 36CUs and I give even a range up to 40 CUs... anything better than that will put it at high-end not mainstream and we know AMD is not replacing Vega 7nm that will be the only high-end solution this year.

I'm not here to create or make story like your previous posts... I just shared the AMD plans from it own mouth... you can try to deny or fight against it but I will only be here laughing lol sorry.
[/QUOTE]But you just said Vega was high end and Navi was mid-end.... You are all over the place. No new graphics lineup launches all products at the same time.....

The rumor mill said that Navi 20 lands in 2020, yet nothing is confirmed. The rumor mill also said that Navi may launch 24,36,40 CU parts first, it does not detract from the fact that Navi will also be high end, no matter when it lands......

Don't be sure of anything till it lands.... The press were so adamant that Vega VII would never happen too. It's a speculation thread remember that......
 

devilNprada

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"In gaming, we successfully returned to the high-end market with the launch of our Radeon™ VII GPU in February 2019 and we are on track to introduce our next-generation “Navi” GPUs for the mainstream market later this year. "


These people lol

You are really a figure :D
I don't read this the way you read it. I read it as; they have already introduced a product into high end gaming and are on schedule to introduce another different high end gaming product..

I think you are really stretching it... Sorry but this is a pretty ambiguous quote to base your whole argument on..
 
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SonGoku

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Some games like PS4 exclusives (Horizon, GoW, etcc.) and others like Witcher 3 keep change the color of the light based on your health (green 100%, yellow 50%, red critical). Constant change of color drain the DS4 battery.
If Sony wasnt so cheap and put a decent battery in there that woulnt be a problem.
Actually Navi is confirmed to be part of Radeon VII line of product.
Vega 7nm is the high-end models (56 to 64 CUs).
Navi 7nm is the mid-end models (32 to 40 CUs).

Navi 7nm is the direct sucessor of Polaris.
But wasn't Navi Lite supposed to come first followed by big navi?
Its just changing the order of release, release lower spec first.
 
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bitbydeath

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Just don't expect too much, or you will get disappointed.
Dedicated RT hardware on a console is a waste of space. Hardware with some optimizations to help doing RT is the most likely outcome.
The jump from 1080p to 4k will eat up most of the TFlops difference between ps4 to ps5 (assuming native res), so all extra flops will be needed to improve the other aspects of graphics.
I’m not even interested in Ray Tracing. Just trying to help with links to the right info.

It was mentioned because it is hot new buzzword.
It was also answer for question not that they came up with it themselves informing everyone about it.

If you would ask them same question back in PS2 era they would also say it "supports" raytracing.
They wouldn’t say the PS2’s GPU supports it though is the main takeaway here as that would be a lie.
 

SonGoku

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It doesnt make sense to promote a feature that your system will be shit at, you will want to discredit such feature and say it doesnt matter, not worth it etc.
Thats why i believe in hardware rt being real.
 

bitbydeath

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You can read yourself officially form AMD.

"In gaming, we successfully returned to the high-end market with the launch of our Radeon™ VII GPU in February 2019 and we are on track to introduce our next-generation “Navi” GPUs for the mainstream market later this year. "


BTW you own quote says the same "Whenever we’ve spoken to AMD’s AIB partners, and colleagues in the industry, the general consensus has been that Navi is going to be a 7nm mainstream GPU that will take the place of Polaris in the Radeon tech tree. "

Navi = Mainstrain
Vega 7nm =High-end (already launched)

The article assumption is based in this part...

"I asked David Wang specifically about Navi going toe-to-toe with Nvidia at the high-end of the market, and Dr. Su seems to be talking about the Turing-based cards from Nvidia when she says they’re going to be ‘right there in the mix.’ "

Well based in that quote he estimate Navi could be a little more powerful than expected... but right there in the mix is a bit ambiguous because nVidia RTX cards are there from RTX 2060 to RTX 2080TI... I'm a trully believer Navi will be better than RTX 2060 (and one version will trade direct blows)... but to be better than RTX 2080? No way... they are still threating Vega 7nm as their high-end solution.
Mainstream and mid-power doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing though.

As any GPU going into a console would be considered as mainstream as that is what is expected to sell the most.

I believe Navi-10 is mid and Navi-20 is high. If these charts are correct.
 
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ethomaz

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I don't read this the way you read it. I read it as; they have already introduced a product into high end gaming and are on schedule to introduce another different high end gaming product..

I think you are really stretching it... Sorry but this is a pretty ambiguous quote to base your whole argument on..
What is ambiguous about "our next-generation “Navi” GPUs for the mainstream market later this year. "?

It is pretty clear... Navi replacing Polaris for mainstream will be launch this year.... Vega continue being the high-end product from AMD.

Both Vega and Navi are part of Radeon VII family.

Stronger Navi could be launch next year to replace Vega? Of course, perhaps it won't even be called Navi like Polaris to Vega.

I believe people are setting themselves again for disappointment believing they will see a Navi for compete on high-end this year but hey I'm just an spectator (I don't buy PC GPUs).

Mainstream and mid-power doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing though.

As any GPU going into a console would be considered as mainstream as that is what is expected to sell the most.

I believe Navi-10 is mid and Navi-20 is high. If these charts are correct.
This chart was already proved incorrect a lot of times... maybe because plans changed? I don't know.

Navi this year will be only the replacement for Polaris in the mainstream market... Vega will be the only launch for high-end market... AMD confirmed that today.

I'm talking about up to date official (today) news about Navi... not old plans of rumors.

If we look at rumors then you can find that https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-radeon-rx-gpu-rumors-navi-20-2020-rx-navi-graphics-cards/ that says AMD is having issues with Navi clocks so the high-end option (to replace Vega) was delayed to 2020.

Rumor being true or not the actual news is that Navi will only replace Polaris on mainstream market this year.

AMD Radeon VII line up this:

High-end: Vega 7nm (already launched)
Mid-end: Navi 7nm (Q3 2019)
 
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bitbydeath

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This chart was already proved incorrect a lot of times... maybe because plans changed? I don't know.

Navi this year will be only the replacement for Polaris in the mainstream market... Vega will be the only launch for high-end market... AMD confirmed that today.

I'm talking about up to date official (today) news about Navi... not old plans of rumors.
Was not aware about the chart being debunked? Any links so I can catch-up?

I guess we’ll all find out soon enough anyway though.
 

Negotiator

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I am on pc. And aiming is not the issue, it's movement.
The discussion is about (next-gen) consoles and potentially new control schemes.

What's wrong with (optional) gyro aiming in a console context?

Hell, even the Steam controller supports gyro (since you mentioned PCs).

Discussing CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD specs is cool and all, but a next-gen leap should be more than that (better gameplay, AI etc.) :)
 

SonGoku

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Was this posted yet?
In separate press releases issued today, the Company also announced that it settled a patent litigation dispute with Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. and agreed to a global patent and technology license for mobile devices for quarterly royalties, and that it signed an agreement with Sony Interactive Entertainment to license Immersion’s advanced haptics patent portfolio and leverage Immersion’s haptics technology for gaming and VR controllers.
Al i can say is, about fucking time! Hopefully this means DS5 has a trackpad like the steam controller
 
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Sycomunkee

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Was this posted yet?

Al i can say is, about fucking time! Hopefully this means DS5 has a trackpad like the steam controller
Doesn't that just add touch sensitivity to say like a trackpad or would it be something like Oculus' Controllers?


Discussing CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD specs is cool and all, but a next-gen leap should be more than that (better gameplay, AI etc.) :)
Time and time again, this is always claimed but people just want better graphics.
 
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TLZ

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Lisa Su confirms Q3 launch of 7nm Ryzen 2, Epyc, and Navi. Webcast replay wiil be available in the next 24 hours, link: http://ir.amd.com/shareholder-services/annual-meeting



Nothing we didn't know really, but the hype words around Ryzen 2 contrasting with "Navi is an architecture we are releasing" is a little interesting if you wanted to read into it.
That image says "All new GPU architecture in Navi".
 
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Negotiator

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SonGoku

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I know, man. Just like everyone likes big titties... it's all about the eye candy.

It doesn't hurt to ask something more than that, does it? ;)
Not really an apt comparison, i prefer medium perky "graphics" over ultra and bloated "graphics"
I dont like silicon customizations either, if you catch my drift ;)
 
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Insane Metal

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Just a "FYI": on the latest AdoredTV video (yeah I know, "LOL") talking about AMDs Madrid CPU (Zen 3) it is shown that it's been revealed (not a rumor) that Zen 3 (for servers and datacenters) will actually boast 15 chiplets. Apparently (now this is the rumor), 10 CPUs, 4 GPUs and 1 I/O all in one. What a fucking monster.

Other things are speculated: that it'll come with embedded HBM2, that it'll support 4 threads per core, etc.
 
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SonGoku

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Or he could add a option to disable like steam/pc does.

But yeah, a better battery is always welcome.
Current battery is cheap af though.
I agree an option should definitely be added.
 
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Sycomunkee

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Like the steam controller.
To add accuracy for shooters and better camera control.
That's probably not going to happen, the license just tells me that the track pad is staying. Something like that would not fly with the average gamer.

MS needs to add gyro on XB2 controllers. It costs pennies and MS is by far the most wealthy company (they hit $1 trillion market cap a while ago).

Even XB1 could have had it: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-11-20-xbox-one-pad-cost-usd100-million-in-r-and-d-microsoft

Sony and Nintendo already have it on PS4 and Switch respectively.
If anything Microsoft needs to add a Mic and a Speaker to the controller. Not having to put on a headset would be sweet, but so would not having to have the TV blaring to hear people on the screen that's 10' away. Better yet, it would also be good for voice commands. I have no use for a gyro, I never used it on the PS4 and personally, I dislike motion controls unless it's for VR.

Current battery is cheap af though.
I agree an option should definitely be added.
What about the option to use my own batteries? Enloops anyone?
 
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SonGoku

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Just look at the right trackpad, not the dpad or controller design
People are lazy, thumbsticks are too.
Only the right analog would be replaced with a trackpad, it would make aiming and looking around much better, they just gotta advertise it properly.
The left analog and dpad would remain the same.
DS4 here in Brazil is already super expensive, with all those gadgets DS5 will have a console price.
Not if the official retail price remains the same which traditionally does.
The reason ds4 is expensive in brazil is government taxes.
 
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Sycomunkee

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Just look at the right trackpad, not the dpad or controller design

Only the right analog would be replaced with a trackpad, it would make aiming and looking around much better, they just gotta advertise it properly.
The left analog and dpad would remain the same.
I Understand how the controller works. I just don’t think people will like sliding their finger across the trackpad multiple times just to turn around.The beautiful thing about analog sticks is you don’t have to tell anybody how to use it and that’s important.
 

thelastword

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I believe people are setting themselves again for disappointment believing they will see a Navi for compete on high-end this year but hey I'm just an spectator (I don't buy PC GPUs).
No, this is of your own doing, nobody said anything about what strength AMD GPU lands this year or not.....I only took issue with these statements "Vega VII and Navi are the same lineup and Navi is only Mid Gen" and that still stands.......It was never about what lands this year or not, that was never the argument......The truth is, nobody knows for sure, all we have are rumors.....Yet we know for a fact that AMD said they will be competing with Turing on the high end and that's all there is to it.....

This chart was already proved incorrect a lot of times... maybe because plans changed? I don't know.
Another rumor does not prove a prior rumor incorrect, they are all rumors....

Navi this year will be only the replacement for Polaris in the mainstream market... Vega will be the only launch for high-end market... AMD confirmed that today.
Send me the links to this confirmation.....Are you saying that there will be no Navi product this year that's stronger than an RX 590? I also think you are conflating mainstream with Mid-End..........

I'm talking about up to date official (today) news about Navi... not old plans of rumors.
I've searched, can't find anything, what is this new news? Link me up Scotty.....
 

~Fake

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Not if the official retail price remains the same which traditionally does.
The reason ds4 is expensive in brazil is government taxes.
Its not cheap in New York as well in my experience, but can be more worse don't you think?

And others rumors/leaks about a screen on the ds... Hope all wrong. Put a oled screen is not cheap.
If I can use a DS4 on ps5 already be a good take. Besides the analog position, DS4 still a great joystick.
 

Negotiator

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If anything Microsoft needs to add a Mic and a Speaker to the controller.
No, that's a bad idea. Sony wanted to do that, but the mic caught clicking noises from the buttons. You don't want that.

I have no use for a gyro, I never used it on the PS4 and personally, I dislike motion controls unless it's for VR.
I blame Sony for not utilizing it properly (all shooters should have it). Dreams has it. Give it a try.

If you've ever played Vita/3DS/Wii U/Switch games, then you'll understand what I'm talking about. It's the equivalent of mouse aiming for consoles.

Besides, it's meant to be optional, not mandatory. Would that bother you as well?
 
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SonGoku

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I Understand how the controller works. I just don’t think people will like sliding their finger across the trackpad multiple times just to turn around.The beautiful thing about analog sticks is you don’t have to tell anybody how to use it and that’s important.
Doesnt trackpad work the same as analog with added accuracy? Its not like they have to learn to use it
They could always add something like this for people attached to analogs


What do you think about a trackball instead?
 

Geki-D

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No physical feedback is extremely uncomfortable, just like on a phone screen. I just Googled reviews for the Steam controller and a lot of them complain about them for the type of games you generally find the most on consoles:

"I’m also not sold on the touchpads. They work great on some titles, particularly turn based strategy games, like Pillars of Eternity, but they’re not up to scratch fast paced genres, like shooters.

Playing Left 4 Dead 2, Killing Floor 2 and Warhammer: End Times Vermintide, I’ve never been able to get the right sensitivity level on the pads. They are reactive, but their sensitivity flips between sluggish to super fast in the blink of an eye.
"

"Well, the Steam Controller’s greatest strength (and ironically, its greatest weakness) are those recognizable trackpads. Namely, while they make the controller work much better as a substitute for keyboard and mouse controls, they are also less precise and a bit uncomfortable to use in action games.

Now, the haptic feedback does do its part, so using the trackpads doesn’t feel the same as using virtual sticks on a phone or a tablet. But sadly, even so, the experience just doesn’t compare to having actual physical analog sticks under your thumbs.
"

"And in making concessions to those PC games, it’s made playing console-style games much more problematic. Using a touchpad for camera controls instead of a second thumbstick is awkward at best, debilitating at worst. And the subtly altered geometry of the Steam Controller, which thrusts up the handles to insist that the user’s thumbs to rest on both touchpads and reach for the left thumbstick and A/B/X/Y face buttons, makes extended play sessions of console-style games much more uncomfortable than they are with a less innovative design."

"Also, for controlling a character in third-person, the trackpad isn’t as convenient as an analog stick, because there’s no rim to press the stick against and rotate. It is possible to replicate this behavior through software configuration, but it’s not the same as the physical sensation."

There's no chance Sony or MS would replace analogue with a trackpad, they just aren't good for the games they make and it's way too alien to console gamers.
 

SonGoku

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Its not cheap in New York as well in my experience
Same price as the DS3 before it though
No physical feedback is extremely uncomfortable, just like on a phone screen. I just Googled reviews for the Steam controller and a lot of them complain about them for the type of games you generally find the most on consoles:
I've read numerous positive user reviews as well, claiming is almost as good as a mouse
But lets say you are right, there has to be a better replacement for analogs, trackball perhaps?
 

ethomaz

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When somebody reply to you “Are you saying that there will be no Navi product this year that's stronger than an RX 590?” you really need to stop to argue because the guy has no ideia what he is talking or reading lol

Just to be clear this year AMD GPU releases:

High-end: Vega 7nm (Vega 14nm replacement)
Mainstream: Navi 7nm (Polaris replacement)

All cards are part of the same family Radeon VII.

In performance terms you will see a jump over Polaris but not enough to match Vega 7nm.

It will trade blows in the segment of RTX 2060 and RTX 2070... nVidia could launch an overclocked RTX 2070 Ti to say they launched something better lol
 
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Geki-D

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I've read numerous positive user reviews as well, claiming is almost as good as a mouse
For cursors it works though your thumb alone is still way less precise than your whole hand resting on a mouse layed down on a flat surface. Where it fails is camera control. That works for a mouse for the same reason I just pointed out it's more precise (anchored, whole hand movement), but a trackpad falls flat when the thing your moving isn't an obvious point and you can't feel the limits of your movement like with the rim of the analogue stick housing.

But lets say you are right, there has to be a better replacement for analogs, trackball perhaps?
Maybe, though with a trackball you'd have no return to center so you'd have to keep making micro adjustments which would be a pain. Trackballs also have a decent weight to them which would make the pad heavier, they're also more fragile. They also require constant spinning and adjusting which is tedious work people won't be bothered with whilst an analogue just needs you to hold it in a position for constant movement.

Valve actually considered trackballs for their pad and decided against it for perfectly valid reasons:

The best thing for pads is analogue, there's no getting around it unless a brand new type of control is invented. A mouse is good because it's a set down control method but for handheld, only being moved by the most imprecise digit on your hand, analogue is best. Platform holders would do best to find ways to make what we already have more precise than jump left and right, wasting time and money on stuff they already know doesn't work.
 
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SonGoku

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@Geki-D
I dont believe for a second that current analogs are the best a gamepad can offer, there has to be something better
BTW my comment about positive user reviews refers to shooters accuracy

I've watched the video, the conclusion i got is valve let go of trackball because it would require a higher investment to implement properly
you'd have no return to center so you'd have to keep making micro adjustments which would be a pain.
I agree, this is the main drawback with trackpads/trackbals, if they could figure out a way around it, it would be golden
They also require constant spinning and adjusting which is tedious work people won't be bothered with whilst an analogue just needs you to hold it in a position for constant movement.
This wont be an issiue with a right trackball used for camera movement, it would wprk the same as analog: Point in the direction you wanna look
 
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TeamGhobad

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People think we will actually see Anaconda and Lockhart full specs and the console itself at E3 this year? if its coming fall 2020 is way to early to discuss it. I think they might tease something but it will be very minor. I honestly think most of you will be disappointed by MS E3 presentation.
 

SonGoku

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People think we will actually see Anaconda and Lockhart full specs and the console itself at E3 this year? if its coming fall 2020 is way to early to discuss it. I think they might tease something but it will be very minor. I honestly think most of you will be disappointed by MS E3 presentation.
Yeah at most i expect a scorpio type reveal with promise of more to follow.
 

Evilms

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I gave you real benchmarks across 37 games, games tested recently.... This is no database of old results and estimated perf ratios...
Techpowerup is not a beginner, so I don't see why hardware unboxed benchmarks are more legitimate. In reality, the RX Vega 56 is rather between the GTX 1070 ans 1070Ti but absolutely not the GTX 1080 level.

 
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