Next-Gen PS5 & Next Xbox |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Sycomunkee

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No, that's a bad idea. Sony wanted to do that, but the mic caught clicking noises from the buttons. You don't want that.


I blame Sony for not utilizing it properly (all shooters should have it). Dreams has it. Give it a try.

If you've ever played Vita/3DS/Wii U/Switch games, then you'll understand what I'm talking about. It's the equivalent of mouse aiming for consoles.

Besides, it's meant to be optional, not mandatory. Would that bother you as well?
I guess that makes sense, the Xbox controller is a bit more insulated but I could see where that would cause issues. It would be nice for verbal commands regardless.

If the gyro were optional, most likely not. So long as the price remains the same.

Doesnt trackpad work the same as analog with added accuracy? Its not like they have to learn to use it
They could always add something like this for people attached to analogs


What do you think about a trackball instead?
That looks over-engineered and easily breakable, not good for kids. I’d humor a track ball but still prefer analog sticks on a controller. I would just prefer as little thumb movement as possible. Mouse and keyboard is really the best.
 
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thelastword

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I think anybody trying to downplay Navi needs to see what's going on here.........Turing was just released a few months back......Jensen Huang blew a gasket over Vega VII because nobody is buying 2080 ti's...In reality, AMD does not need to compete with a card few people buy, yet they will aim for 2080ti perf with NAVI......Maybe not this year but eventually at a lower price, with most likely more VRAM and some smoking Raytracing support...

Folk should ask themselves, why are there rumors of a RTX/GTX 2070ti and a refreshed 2080ti? You think Nvidia would just do so? Refreshing the 20 series so soon....From 14Gbps - 16Gbps, will allow much better bandwidth and they also have plans to boost clocks as well.....Why would Nvidia do that if all that's on the horizon are RX 580 and 590 replacements? Anyone remember when Vega 56 came on stream and waxed the GTX 1070? Nvidia went on to develop the 2070ti to combat the Vega 56, they boosted the 1060's memory setup to combat the RX 580 etc...

If Nvidia was only worried about 75 watt Rx 580 perf on 7nm, they would never bother with boosting their current lineup...


Speculation Part on Navi Tech

I think we've already established that Navi CU's are more potent than Fiji and Vega by a good margin....Less CU's will give you much more performance over Vega....,It's very likely that 1 Navi CU = 4 Vega CU's at optimum........Yet, how can AMD break the CU limit for even more breakthrough performance and RTX processing power? They could put 2-4 full 64CU chips on a single wafer and introduce an Infinity Fabric multi-gpu setup.......I think that's the future.......Even if they can't get 64 CU's per chip right now, they can do 4 clusters of 20CU's, 24, 32, 40 and scale up to 56 and 64 clusters in time, maybe not even right away, but that could be a roadmap.......With a two chiplet GPU design we're looking at 40, 48, 64, 80 CU's and 112 and 128CU's on the extreme end.......With a 4 chiplet GPU system, we're looking at 80, 96, 128, 160, 224, 256 CU systems scaled up.......

First gen/release Navi may very well be a monolothic setup, especially for the low end to mid, but I think the ground work has already been established to push GPU technology for the longterm.......And I dare say, we're are not going to go anywhere for much longer if all GPU manufacturers are looking to do is simply wait for another die shrink to increase clocks and lower thermals.......Someone must be thinking ahead to push GPU technology forward.....

Im thinking about two things that Lisa said makes me think, they're going that route.......Sometime last year, Lisa Su said that they were doing heavy Research and Development into compute......and more recently she said...

------------
This builds on Dr. Su’s comments at an interview with Barron's a month prior where she asserted that AMD will be “competitive in high-end graphics,” and that AMD is “making high-performing quality products and building a solid long-term foundation.”

And TSMC’s 7nm process is key to all of it.

AMD CEO Lisa Su – Q3 2018 Earnings Call
“We see significant opportunities to build on this momentum as we transition to our next generations of high performance products and launch the industry’s first 7-nanometer x86 CPUs and discrete GPUs over the coming quarters.”
------------

The bolded is what stuck with me the most, nobody saw threadripper coming, but it was a genius move relative to CPU design....Just Like Ryzen, AMD knows it has to do something revolutionary in the GPU space and Navi has been cooking for a while.........There are many small hints that they are going the multicore route, not just for CPU's but for GPU's as well....I hope they are able to nail it.....
 
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Imtjnotu

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I think anybody trying to downplay Navi needs to see what's going on here.........Turing was just released a few months back......Jensen Huang blew a gasket over Vega VII because nobody is buying 2080 ti's...In reality, AMD does not need to compete with a card few people buy, yet they will aim for 2080ti perf with NAVI......Maybe not this year but eventually at a lower price, with most likely more VRAM and some smoking Raytracing support...

Folk should ask themselves, why are there rumors of a RTX/GTX 2070ti and a refreshed 2080ti? You think Nvidia would just do so? Refreshing the 20 series so soon....From 14Gbps - 16Gbps, will allow much better bandwidth and they also have plans to boost clocks as well.....Why would Nvidia do that if all that's on the horizon are RX 580 and 590 replacements? Anyone remember when Vega 56 came on stream and waxed the GTX 1070? Nvidia went on to develop the 2070ti to combat the Vega 56, they boosted the 1060's memory setup to combat the RX 580 etc...

If Nvidia was only worried about 75 watt Rx 580 perf on 7nm, they would never bother with boosting their current lineup...


Speculation Part on Navi Tech

I think we've already established that Navi CU's are more potent than Fiji and Vega by a good margin....Less CU's will give you much more performance over Vega....,It's very likely that 1 Navi CU = 4 Vega CU's at optimum........Yet, how can AMD break the CU limit for even more breakthrough performance and RTX processing power? They could put 2-4 full 64CU chips on a single wafer and introduce an Infinity Fabric multi-gpu setup.......I think that's the future.......Even if they can't get 64 CU's per chip right now, they can do 4 clusters of 20CU's, 24, 32, 40 and scale up to 56 and 64 clusters in time, maybe not even right away, but that could be a roadmap.......With a two chiplet GPU design we're looking at 40, 48, 64, 80 CU's and 112 and 128CU's on the extreme end.......With a 4 chiplet GPU system, we're looking at 80, 96, 128, 160, 224, 256 CU systems scaled up.......

First gen/release Navi may very well be a monolothic setup, especially for the low end to mid, but I think the ground work has already been established to push GPU technology for the longterm.......And I dare say, we're are not going to go anywhere for much longer if all GPU manufacturers are looking to do is simply wait for another die shrink to increase clocks and lower thermals.......Someone must be thinking ahead to push GPU technology forward.....

Im thinking about two things that Lisa said makes me think, they're going that route.......Sometime last year, Lisa Su said that they were doing heavy Research and Development into compute......and more recently she said...

------------
This builds on Dr. Su’s comments at an interview with Barron's a month prior where she asserted that AMD will be “competitive in high-end graphics,” and that AMD is “making high-performing quality products and building a solid long-term foundation.”

And TSMC’s 7nm process is key to all of it.

AMD CEO Lisa Su – Q3 2018 Earnings Call

------------

The bolded is what stuck with me the most, nobody saw threadripper coming, but it was a genius move relative to CPU design....Just Like Ryzen, AMD knows it has to do something revolutionary in the GPU space and Navi has been cooking for a while.........There are many small hints that they are going the multicore route, not just for CPU's but for GPU's as well....I hope they are able to nail it.....
With what she said about the size of teams working on the CPU and gpu side, after ryzen I figured a good chunk of the teams would be out on Navi. That's why Vega and Polaris suffered. They have two fronts and can't focus on one like Intel and nvidia do.

I think Navi will be a good change for them
 
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DeepEnigma

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Some games like PS4 exclusives (Horizon, GoW, etcc.) and others like Witcher 3 keep change the color of the light based on your health (green 100%, yellow 50%, red critical). Constant change of color drain the DS4 battery.
I could have sworn tests were run by people who disconnected the led, and there were no discernible difference (6% max if that) in battery life. It is such a low draw. Rumble motors impact it far more.

It’s the battery size itself. Since a super cheap battery swap practically doubles or more usage time.

But I will agree, they should have an option to completely turn it off.
 
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I like having AA battery compartment. We have about 12 rechargeables and it's easy to rotate them.

Probably won't happen, but I hope they'll allow at least the new BT Xbox one controllers to work with scarlett systems.
 
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wordslaughter

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Don't understand why anyone WANTS an internal battery for their controller. I wish I could take the batteries out of ALL my electronics. An internal battery means that product has an artificially limited lifespan and one day you just won't be able to use it anymore AND you get to look forward to having the battery life become more and more shit over time before that happens. Yay.

And it's not just about that. Everyone already has rechargeable AA batteries in their home anyway for a wide variety of other needs. It just makes sense to use AA in a controller too. And when you run out of charge you just swap out new batteries. It takes 10 seconds are you're ready to go.

Also, 2 AA batteries last a LOT longer than whatever size battery Sony used in their controllers.

There's just no advantage to having a battery locked away that you can't quickly swap out. What do you want? A waterproof controller? lol
 

Sycomunkee

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The battery in the controllers last longer than a single generation. Which next-gen you’d get a new controller anyway so it’s really a non-issue.
But with removable and rechargeable batteries, I can have a spare charging and change it on the fly rather than spending money on two controllers and rotating them out. I really don’t understand why this would be frowned upon.
 

bitbydeath

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But with removable and rechargeable batteries, I can have a spare charging and change it on the fly rather than spending money on two controllers and rotating them out. I really don’t understand why this would be frowned upon.
Yeah, if the charge can last a good 12 hours then should have the best of both worlds. Just place it on the charger as you go to bed. No having to mess around with batteries is a damn good thing.
 

devilNprada

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May 2, 2019
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Don't understand why anyone WANTS an internal battery for their controller. I wish I could take the batteries out of ALL my electronics. An internal battery means that product has an artificially limited lifespan and one day you just won't be able to use it anymore AND you get to look forward to having the battery life become more and more shit over time before that happens. Yay.

And it's not just about that. Everyone already has rechargeable AA batteries in their home anyway for a wide variety of other needs. It just makes sense to use AA in a controller too. And when you run out of charge you just swap out new batteries. It takes 10 seconds are you're ready to go.

Also, 2 AA batteries last a LOT longer than whatever size battery Sony used in their controllers.

There's just no advantage to having a battery locked away that you can't quickly swap out. What do you want? A waterproof controller? lol
Battery technology is pretty good now. Not many products outlast the batteries these days.

Rotating between two controllers is the way to go.. I'm baffled everyone doesn't do that..
 

Sycomunkee

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Battery technology is pretty good now. Not many products outlast the batteries these days.

Rotating between two controllers is the way to go.. I'm baffled everyone doesn't do that..
:messenger_neutral:

Yeah, if the charge can last a good 12 hours then should have the best of both worlds. Just place it on the charger as you go to bed. No having to mess around with batteries is a damn good thing.
Maybe but don’t be the poor bastard that gets the funky battery that quits charging after the warranty is up.
 
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Sycomunkee

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The rumors are getting out of hand, how did we get here? There should be a google sheets with all the predictions.
 

DeepEnigma

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Buy some Eneloop’s :messenger_grinning_sweat:
Or they should include them since they charge the same as competitors for a controller without an included rechargeable battery option. More cost for the consumer.

But that is a derailing argument that is redundant coming into next gen.
 

wordslaughter

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Battery technology is pretty good now. Not many products outlast the batteries these days.

Rotating between two controllers is the way to go.. I'm baffled everyone doesn't do that..
That's not a convincing argument. There are PLENTY of products that man not simply break for many many years on their own. But that battery inside limits it to just a handful of years. And maybe only 2 at optimum function.

And your "solution" to not being able to simply swap out a couple AA batteries is to have a seperate controller acting as nothing more than an expensive battery charging station.

It doesn't make sense.
 
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bitbydeath

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This sounds ideal, with perfect hopes and dreams. I want to believe.
It does, it also looks like a best of list.
The price from Cernys comments, as many would have expected $499. And he mentioned something about people being pleased or some such.
The IR Camera is from Rutheniccookies.
The specs are pretty much the same as every other rumour before it.

September launch is the main surprise.
 
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devilNprada

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That's not a convincing argument. There are PLENTY of products that man not simply break for many many years on their own. But that battery inside limits it to just a handful of years. And maybe only 2 at optimum function.

And your "solution" to not being able to simply swap out a couple AA batteries is to have a seperate controller acting as nothing more than an expensive battery charging station.

It doesn't make sense.
Products that you use daily? Uh huh..

I'm not trying to argue with you or convince you. I simply would rather just get off the couch and grab the other controller, than get off the couch and look for fucking batteries. That little convenience is worth $50 to me. But hey that's me..

So I'll leave it at OK, you go do your thing I'll do mine.
 

DeepEnigma

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It does, it also looks like a best of list.
The price from Cernys comments, as many would have expected $499. And he mentioned something about people being pleased or some such.
The IR Camera is from Rutheniccookies.
The specs are pretty much the same as every other rumour before it.

September launch is the main surprise.
I would love for them to go back to viral like Easter egg ads they did with the first PlayStation like, URNOTE (e) NOS Lives for the 9th of September release.

It will be the 25th Anniversary for Western release of the first PlayStation, and the West is now their strongest markets and home base.

What I find interesting, the original name for the PlayStation in Japan before its initial launch was PlayStation X which is where the acronym PSX comes from. Then they released the Slim called PSOne.

And MS went with Xbox One, then Xbox One X. Familiarity marketing strategy perhaps.
 
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Tarkus98

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This sounds ideal, with perfect hopes and dreams. I want to believe.
Yeah, it sound really good. Unfortunately it kinda lost me when I read that GT would be a launch game. Can’t see that happening but it would be awesome. Also BC for PS3? Don’t think Sony is going to go through the time and effort to create an emulator to do this. Again, it would be great - I just don’t believe it.
 
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Bankai

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He mentioned output (8K) which is not necessarily for gaming
8K Pacman Championship = 8K gaming.

8K is just RESOLUTION guys, no more no less. Some simple games will probably support it, no problem. I can run Pacman @12K if I wanted on my GTX780.
 

SonGoku

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8K Pacman Championship = 8K gaming.

8K is just RESOLUTION guys, no more no less. Some simple games will probably support it, no problem. I can run Pacman @12K if I wanted on my GTX780.
Of course simple 2d/3d indie games will run just fine but i dont think devs will even bother supporting 8k because the user base is non existent.
 

bitbydeath

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Of course simple 2d/3d indie games will run just fine but i dont think devs will even bother supporting 8k because the user base is non existent.
They’d probably automatically upscale with little to no effort anyway. Which is possibly all it means. No cap on res, TV will handle the upscaling.

We don’t need 8K textures taking up so much space right now anyway.

I do hope Sony has implemented some software tricks though to improve the image.
 
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TBiddy

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Looks similar to what happened in 2013.
Let's see how it turn out this time.
Gonna be interesting for sure. I just hope that neither Sony nor MS repeats their mistakes from the past (ridiculous architecture and idiotic tv-focused shit).
 

bitbydeath

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BC with all previous PlayStations.

Don't break my heart, rumormill.
I think there is a good chance of it.
People like to point to PSNow as to why it won’t happen but I could also see them doing BC because of PSNOW.

Why? So PSNOW can have the option to download all games and not just PS4 + rebuilt PS2 ones. Without BC it hinders that aspect of PSNOW.

They also had a patent one time suggesting they found a way to do it too.

That said since Cerny didn’t mention it may mean it might not be ready right now and possibly not ready for launch either.
 

SonGoku

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We have to ask ourselves, is PS3 BC worth the investment? If Sony already puts such little priority on PS2 BC what makes us think it will be any different next gen for PS3 no less.
TBH I'll be happy with PS4Pro BC + boost mode for dynamic rez games and fluctuating framerates.
 
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CurryPanda

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We have to ask ourselves, is PS3 BC worth the investment? If Sony already puts such little priority on PS2 BC what makes us think it will be any different next gen for PS3 no less.
TBH I'll be happy with PS4Pro BC + boost mode for dynamic rez games and fluctuating framerates.
It’s just a nice incentive to have to be able
to play all your old titles on a new machine, that’s all. :)