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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & Next Xbox |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Next Gen Consoles Power Level


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Oddspeak

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Renders of the patent.





Sauce
Well... it's definitely a unique form factor and sets itself apart from any other console, but it frankly screams "plastic $50 plug-and-play toy".

Of all the concepts I've seen, I've only ever really liked one:



Grey color as a tasteful throwback to the PS1, the slanted back of the PS4, layered slat bottom half that could be used as vents that go around the entirety of the console.
 

mckmas8808

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May 24, 2005
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Well... it's definitely a unique form factor and sets itself apart from any other console, but it frankly screams "plastic $50 plug-and-play toy".

Of all the concepts I've seen, I've only ever really liked one:



Grey color as a tasteful throwback to the PS1, the slanted back of the PS4, layered slat bottom half that could be used as vents that go around the entirety of the console.
That looks too similar to a xbox one x right?
 

llien

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Feb 1, 2017
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In Cerny words, previously unattainable visuals, instantly noticeable
Some examples:
Uncharted2&3->Uncharted4
Killzone3-> Shadowfall
Infamous2-> SecondSon
asscreed3-> whatever asscreed is out now
rdr->rdr2
But I asked for numbers.
Yet you can't provide them, and for a good reason: there is NO HARD multiplier that "must be provided" for visual bump up (resolution is easier).

Both Sony and Microsoft, when considering what to put inside, will go for:
1) The best GPU they can get
2) With total system consumption at 250 watt tops
3) +50$ up to +$100 over previous gen console, without losing much money

Those are THE constraints they work with. If NAVI wouldn't beat Vega so badly, we'd get slower consoles, nobody would say "oh, it's not X times faster, that's not fast enough for imaginary 'next gen'".

As a baseline, we have:

PS4 - 328mm2 chip on 28nm, which was about a third bigger than PS3 on 40nm
7nm chip is more expensive to produce (as well as develop)
8 core Ryzen chiplet - 74mm2, but not counting huge 14nm IO die.
Positive: competition heat
Negative: plans to include expensive SSD reduce APU budget
Neutral: from what I've read, for AMD migration to 7nm+ makes less sense, than to 6nm, although both are close perf/density wise, the former is quite a bit of an effort, while the latter is somewhat straightforward according to TSMC. But then we have Zen3 on AMD presentation shown as 7nm+, hm. Anyhow, 6nm is also coming in 2020 and in the context of this thread is the same as 7nm+ (EUV)


So, uh, what did you estimate PS5 chip size to be?

Wonder if this design leads to an external power brick.
Moving 20-30 watts of power to dissipate out of console would be a hint at GAF dreams about PS5 perf coming true.
 
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SonGoku

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Aug 16, 2018
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But I asked for numbers.
Yet you can't provide them, and for a good reason: there is NO HARD multiplier that "must be provided" for visual bump up (resolution is easier).
But you can compare the visual and hw leap
Both Sony and Microsoft, when considering what to put inside, will go for:
1) The best GPU they can get
2) With total system consumption at 250 watt tops
3) +50$ up to +$100 over previous gen console, without losing much money
All this doable with a 11TF+ console
PS4 - 328mm2 chip on 28nm,
348mm2 actually
So, uh, what did you estimate PS5 chip size to be?
DUV: 380-400mm2
EUV: 330-340mm2
 

llien

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Feb 1, 2017
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But you can compare the visual and hw leap
Way to subjective and doesn't help quantifying requirements, unlike with PS4 Pro, when Sony was apparently afraid to miss the VR wagon, and figured they needed to double the GPU perf (4k was a side effect, in my humble opinion).

Both Horizon and GoW 4 look quite close to what I see in latest Witcher.
Sony exclusives will drop jaws no matter what, since there is so much graphic fidelity one could achieve with simply putting more effort into game.

Mea culpa.

DUV: 380-400mm2
EUV: 330-340mm2
Without IO die, I guess.
So GPU in DUV version is about 300-320mm2, 20-28% bigger than 5700XT, but with 20% lower clock and helluva cooler.
EUV would simply allow some cooler sanity.

That looks quite close to 5700-5700XT to me. :)
 
Apr 1, 2019
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Well... it's definitely a unique form factor and sets itself apart from any other console, but it frankly screams "plastic $50 plug-and-play toy".

Of all the concepts I've seen, I've only ever really liked one:



Grey color as a tasteful throwback to the PS1, the slanted back of the PS4, layered slat bottom half that could be used as vents that go around the entirety of the console.
This one looks way better. The other render is like if the console is upside down.
 

SonGoku

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Aug 16, 2018
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Both Horizon and GoW 4 look quite close to what I see in latest Witcher.
TW3 looks ugly on consoles imo, and its not that good looking on PC either
Sony exclusives will drop jaws no matter what
No doubt
Without IO die, I guess.
So GPU in DUV version is about 300-320mm2, 20-28% bigger than 5700XT, but with 20% lower clock and helluva cooler.
IO included shared with CPU
My conservative estimate is 60CU Total - 56 enabled at 1600MHz = 11.46TF
75mm for CPU
62.7mm2 for 384 bit bus (24GB)
69.99mm2 for front end SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 20.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
146.7 mm2 30WGPs with RT (60CUs)
Total:

N7P: 385.96mm2
N6 328.066mm2
N7+: 320.3468mm2

They might also say fuck it to power consumption and raise clocks to hit 12-13TF
Better cooling for a 300W console woulnt be that much more expensive
EUV would simply allow some cooler sanity.
20% density increase as well
That looks quite close to 5700-5700XT to me.
Not really
 
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Negotiator

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Without IO die, I guess.
I don't understand why this matters for consoles with monolithic APU chips. Care to explain?

They're going to use one lithography (most likely 7nm EUV judging by 2 GHz) for the entire chip, not 2 or 3 separate nodes.

I/O die will be incorporated in the same APU die and we know that 7nm offers 3.3x density improvement vs 12-14nm.
 
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Jul 29, 2013
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Guy did a great job with that dev kit mockup. Seems like he went for more of a finished consumer look, the materials and led lighting used really pop in that environment. I wouldn't be surprised if it has a finish more similar to the PS4 Pro dev kit...


Has anyone dared to speculate on the component layout inside that PS5 devkit? I know some people are saying it might be similar to the consumer version. How would a teardown for that look? I tried to come up with something incorporating the Sony heatsink patent, but I was struggling.
 
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Oct 26, 2018
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That PS5 design looks slick, but no doubt a fake. No dev kit would go through that much trouble of looking nice. And going by retail console shells, no console has ever looked so out there like an Alienware design.
 

stetiger

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Jun 8, 2013
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What are the current estimates nowadays? I have missed a lot of this thread, but my guess would be that Sony is still targeting 10.6+ TFLOPS?
 

T-Cake

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May 28, 2019
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Interesting renders. I would have thought there might be a little display screen like the X1X dev kit has. Devs have said this is a useful thing. And 5x USB 3 ports, I would maybe expect USB-C in there somewhere.
 
Jan 7, 2018
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Well... it's definitely a unique form factor and sets itself apart from any other console, but it frankly screams "plastic $50 plug-and-play toy".

Of all the concepts I've seen, I've only ever really liked one:



Grey color as a tasteful throwback to the PS1, the slanted back of the PS4, layered slat bottom half that could be used as vents that go around the entirety of the console.
yeah this one could end up being very similar to release ps5. I wouldn't mind.
 
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Cubamus Prime

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I just hope we get better quality backwards compatible like what the Xbox x does right now. For example bloodborne would look a lot better at 4 k running at 60 frames. Also I just hope that an option for 1080p 60 frames or 4K at 30 frames. That's all I really want. Also I hope the PS5 hit 14 teraflops.
 

T-Cake

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I just hope we get better quality backwards compatible like what the Xbox x does right now. For example bloodborne would look a lot better at 4 k running at 60 frames. Also I just hope that an option for 1080p 60 frames or 4K at 30 frames. That's all I really want. Also I hope the PS5 hit 14 teraflops.
I would love the PS5 to do an equivalent of Xbox One X-enhancements for non-Pro PS4 games but I can't see it happening. Sony will probably do the bare minimum of getting the games running, maybe with a slight boost to framerate but no resolution increase or change from 30 to 60fps.
 

Cubamus Prime

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I would love the PS5 to do an equivalent of Xbox One X-enhancements for non-Pro PS4 games but I can't see it happening. Sony will probably do the bare minimum of getting the games running, maybe with a slight boost to framerate but no resolution increase or change from 30 to 60fps.
We did get games that give us options wether we want 1080p60f or 4K30 on PS4 Pro. So you never know.
 
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Negotiator

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I just hope we get better quality backwards compatible like what the Xbox x does right now. For example bloodborne would look a lot better at 4 k running at 60 frames. Also I just hope that an option for 1080p 60 frames or 4K at 30 frames. That's all I really want. Also I hope the PS5 hit 14 teraflops.
MS doesn't patch current-gen (XB1) games (AC Unity still runs at 900p30) to increase resolution/fps, so why do you expect Bloodborne to get patched by Sony for 4k60?

Only FROM Software can do that.
 
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~Fake

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MS doesn't patch current-gen (XB1) games (AC Unity still runs at 900p30) to increase resolution/fps, so why do you expect Bloodborne to get patched by Sony for 4k60?

Only FROM Software can do that.
Simple: Emulation.

Ps4pro don't 'emulate' ps4 games, just a more powerful base ps4 with need patchs for take advance of the boost specs. Its not the case of PS5.
PS5 will emulate PS4 games, so maybe there is a chance of PS5 improve some PS4 games without the need of patchs just like PC emulators.
Its up to Sony. Dunno why people keep forgeting all bloody time the Xbox One BC. Microsoft don't need the game company to make the game run better. Its emulation. Microsoft devs choise to improve the game on the Xbox BC emulator.
 
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Negotiator

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Simple: Emulation.

Ps4pro don't 'emulate' ps4 games, just a more powerful base ps4 with need patchs for take advance of the boost specs. Its not the case of PS5.
PS5 will emulate PS4 games, so maybe there is a chance of PS5 improve some PS4 games without the need of patchs just like PC emulators.
Its up to Sony. Dunno why people keep forgeting all bloody time the Xbox One BC. Microsoft don't need the game company to make the game run better. Its emulation. Microsoft devs choise to improve the game on the Xbox BC emulator.
Who said anything about emulation?

PS4 games will run natively on PS5, just like XB1 games run natively on XB1X. PS4 Pro also runs PS4 games natively, just like Wii U runs Wii games natively.

Care to explain why AC Unity has not been patched to increase resolution/fps (900p, 30 fps)?

There's a reason MS only patches OG XBOX & XBOX 360 games (those games run via emulation, not natively).
 
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Sycomunkee

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Jan 21, 2019
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Well... it's definitely a unique form factor and sets itself apart from any other console, but it frankly screams "plastic $50 plug-and-play toy".

Of all the concepts I've seen, I've only ever really liked one:



Grey color as a tasteful throwback to the PS1, the slanted back of the PS4, layered slat bottom half that could be used as vents that go around the entirety of the console.
This looks way better than the dev kit. The dev kit reminds me of something that corporate pukes think gamer stuff should look like. Over the top and hideous.
 

~Fake

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Who said anything about emulation?

PS4 games will run natively on PS5, just like XB1 games run natively on XB1X. PS4 Pro also runs PS4 games natively, just like Wii U runs Wii games natively.

Care to explain why AC Unity has not been patched to increase resolution/fps (900p, 30 fps)?

There's a reason MS only patches OG XBOX & XBOX 360 games (those games run via emulation, not natively).
Its BC. Was already confirmed will be BC by Sony.
And I don't see any article saying 'PS5 will run native PS4 games' as you keep mention. The wired spoke about BC.
Is the only way of PS4 get patched without the game company interference if you're still confused about 'how Bloodborne will get PS5 boost without From Software patch'.
Well, there is your answer.
 
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xGreir

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Apr 1, 2019
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Its BC. Was already confirmed will be BC by Sony.
And I don't see any article saying 'PS5 will run native PS4 games' as you keep mention. The wired spoke about BC.
Is the only way of PS4 get patched without the game company interference if you're still confused about 'how Bloodborne will get patched without From Software patch'.
BC, or Backwards compatible, doesn't mean anything, emulation or native.

It is just: Backwards. Compatible. xDDD

We don't know yet, but for example, PS2 was BC, and did it natively, as some of the JAP PS3.

Maybe this time is something like EU PS3, that used a hybrid concept, matching part of the hardware, and doing the rest trough Software.
 
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~Fake

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BC, or Backwards compatible, doesn't mean anything, emulation or native.

It is just: Backwards. Compatible. xDDD


We don't know yet, but for example, PS2 was BC, and did it natively, as some of the JAP PS3.

Maybe this time is something like EU PS3, that used a hybrid concept, matching part of the hardware, and doing the rest trough Software.
Its BC. If will be or not native is still not confirmed, but as I said, only via emulation the game can be patched without company interference. Again... Its up to Sony.
 
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Negotiator

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Its BC. Was already confirmed will be BC by Sony.
And I don't see any article saying 'PS5 will run native PS4 games' as you keep mention. The wired spoke about BC.
Is the only way of PS4 get patched without the game company interference if you're still confused about 'how Bloodborne will get PS5 boost without From Software patch'.
Well, there is your answer.
"Care to explain why AC Unity has not been patched to increase resolution/fps (900p, 30 fps)?"

^ Where is my answer to that?
 

~Fake

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"Care to explain why AC Unity has not been patched to increase resolution/fps (900p, 30 fps)?"

^ Where is my answer to that?
WTF is this question? Is AC Unity a old gen game?
You're making silly questions. Why you don't ask why RDR get a 4K resolution via BC while Sonic Unleashed get nothing via BC?
 
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Negotiator

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WTF is this question? Is AC Unity a old gen game?
You're making silly questions. Why you don't ask why RDR get a 4K resolution via BC while Sonic Unleashed get nothing via BC?
And you still don't understand my point.

Current-gen games (PS4/XB1) have to be patched by devs themselves.

MS's BC team cannot patch XB1 games, otherwise they would have done it already. XB1X enhanced games are patched by devs. See the difference now?

That's why Sony's BC team (they only handle PS2 games currently) cannot patch PS4 games like Bloodborne. Bloodborne is a current-gen game, just like AC Unity. Only FROM and Ubisoft can patch them.

Comprende?
 
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~Fake

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And you still don't understand my point.

Current-gen games (PS4/XB1) have to be patched by devs themselves.

MS's BC team cannot patch XB1 games, otherwise they would have done it already. XB1X enhanced games are patched by devs. See the difference now?

That's why Sony's BC team (they only handle PS2 games currently) cannot patch PS4 games like Bloodborne. Bloodborne is a current-gen game, just like AC Unity. Only FROM and Ubisoft can patch them.

Comprende?
OMG you're so confuse. I being talking about BC (original Xbox games running in Xbox One and Xbox One X), not about Xbox One X games who need patches just like PRO dude.
Christ, BC games don't need to get patched just like AC: Unity in Xbox One X.
Its a software emulation via Microsoft.
If Sony will use BC via software emulation I don't fucking know, but your post about 'bloodborne' had an answer. Its software emulation.
 
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Negotiator

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OMG you're so confuse. I being talking about BC (original Xbox games running in Xbox One and Xbox One X), not about Xbox One X games who need patches just like PRO dude.
Christ, BC games don't need to get patched just like AC: Unity in Xbox One X.
Its a software emulation via Microsoft.
No, you are confused.

I explained why Sony's BC team CANNOT patch Bloodborne to run at 4k60 on PS5, only FROM Software can do that. Even a PS4 Pro patch would require FROM's involvement.

Both Bloodborne and AC Unity are current-gen games, so the same logic applies to both.

What's so hard to understand about that? Is there any language barrier or what?
 

~Fake

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No, you are confused.

I explained why Sony's BC team CANNOT patch Bloodborne to run at 4k60 on PS5, only FROM Software can do that. Even a PS4 Pro patch would require FROM's involvement.

Both Bloodborne and AC Unity are current-gen games, so the same logic applies to both.

What's so hard to understand about that? Is there any language barrier or what?
And who say Bloodborne at 4k60? Lmao Even RDR1 can't run at this.
If you don't know how software emulation works so I can't help you buddy.
Again, you're running in circle. I don't fucking know why you keep bringing AC:Unity to the conversation.
Start make little steps. First exclusives, next other parties.
 
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Negotiator

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And who say Bloodborne at 4k60?
This guy:
I just hope we get better quality backwards compatible like what the Xbox x does right now. For example bloodborne would look a lot better at 4 k running at 60 frames. Also I just hope that an option for 1080p 60 frames or 4K at 30 frames. That's all I really want. Also I hope the PS5 hit 14 teraflops.
RDR1 is a last-gen game. Bloodborne is a current-gen game. How many times do I need to repeat that?

RDR2 got 4K thanks to Rockstar, not Microsoft. Microsoft only patched OG & 360 games, not XB1 games.

If you don't know how software emulation works so I can't help you buddy.
Again, you're running in circle.
Pot, kettle, black.

XB1 games run natively (x86-64/GCN machine code), not via software emulation. Look it up.