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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & Next Xbox |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Next Gen Consoles Power Level


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Negotiator

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I don't believe a design goes straight from design complete/tape-out to being mass produced for dev kits or a product. There are 12+ months of verification and respins at least?

Example: Zen 2 was "design complete" in January 2018 according to AMD but didn't go on sale until July 2019.

SoC Based Devkit: early version of the ORBIS hardware

Available January 2013
Maybe it was taped out a few months earlier, but I wouldn't call this mass production (producing a few dozens of dev kits for select studios?).

Either way, I don't expect final specs until January 2020 at the earliest and mass production for consumers until July-August 2020.
 

Cubamus Prime

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Feb 5, 2018
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This guy:

RDR1 is a last-gen game. Bloodborne is a current-gen game. How many times do I need to repeat that?

RDR2 got 4K thanks to Rockstar, not Microsoft. Microsoft only patched OG & 360 games, not XB1 games.


Pot, kettle, black.

XB1 games run natively (x86-64/GCN machine code), not via software emulation. Look it up.
Well with the power of PS5 you probably can get last gen games running on new HW with 4K60f with frame unlocked via patch..You never know.
It like me buying a new PC with 2080 GPU and running old games at 4K with 60f
 
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bhunachicken

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Apr 11, 2018
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Sony will likely put out a PS5 Pro, but not until 3-4 after the base PS5 has been on sale.

Launch will be a single SKU so that customers know what they're getting and won't have to wonder what the benefits of the standard vs the pro models are (i.e. market confusion).

One thing I was interested in was the application of Sony's blockchain-based DRM patent. Seems it's for music and video, though. Being able to sell "used" digital games to other gamers, etc. would've been pretty neat.
 

carsar

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Sep 10, 2017
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"13.5TF - 14TF (68CU) 7nm EUV ~ 2080Ti tier
14.2TF (72CU) 7nm EUV ≥ 2080Ti tier"

2080 ti has 15.7Tfps at real clocks(1800mhz).
At 2000mhz(non-ref cards or OCed) it has 4352*2*2000 = 17.4Tfps.

So, even 72CU nextgen gpu would be weaker than 2080 ti,.
 

SonGoku

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Aug 16, 2018
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"13.5TF - 14TF (68CU) 7nm EUV ~ 2080Ti tier
14.2TF (72CU) 7nm EUV ≥ 2080Ti tier"

2080 ti has 15.7Tfps at real clocks(1800mhz).
At 2000mhz(non-ref cards or OCed) it has 4352*2*2000 = 17.4Tfps.

So, even 72CU nextgen gpu would be weaker than 2080 ti,.
True but i used reference boost clocks, 13.45TF

BTW are you sure those OC models can mantain 1.8GHz-2GHz the whole time and not just temporary? thought the consensus for turing was 200MHz over advertised boost clocks
 
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rəddəM

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Feb 8, 2018
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Strongly Disagree with a PS5 Pro next gen.
HDMI 2.1 and 4K are set and done, PSVR is set and done.
Now all Sony needs is a machine capable of native 4K 60fps Ray Tracing and a better VR experience.
A 12 RDNA TF U$500,00 box would do.
 

SonGoku

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Strongly Disagree with a PS5 Pro next gen.
HDMI 2.1 and 4K are set and done, PSVR is set and done.
Now all Sony needs is a machine capable of native 4K 60fps Ray Tracing and a better VR experience.
A 12 RDNA TF U$500,00 box would do.
you can always push hw to the limit which is why 60fps is uncommon on consoles
 

Negotiator

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Strongly Disagree with a PS5 Pro next gen.
HDMI 2.1 and 4K are set and done, PSVR is set and done.
Now all Sony needs is a machine capable of native 4K 60fps Ray Tracing and a better VR experience.
A 12 RDNA TF U$500,00 box would do.
Gotta sell 8K Bravia TVs...
 

iamvin22

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Jan 22, 2010
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Strongly Disagree with a PS5 Pro next gen.
HDMI 2.1 and 4K are set and done, PSVR is set and done.
Now all Sony needs is a machine capable of native 4K 60fps Ray Tracing and a better VR experience.
A 12 RDNA TF U$500,00 box would do.
Can't wait for 2.1 spec tvs to drop. Instant buy with the ps5
 
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mckmas8808

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May 24, 2005
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Strongly Disagree with a PS5 Pro next gen.
HDMI 2.1 and 4K are set and done, PSVR is set and done.
Now all Sony needs is a machine capable of native 4K 60fps Ray Tracing and a better VR experience.
A 12 RDNA TF U$500,00 box would do.
What does HDMI 2.1 give us that we currently don't have with the current HDMI spec?
 

rəddəM

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Feb 8, 2018
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What does HDMI 2.1 give us that we currently don't have with the current HDMI spec?
A few already replied but more importantly, future proofing.
At the end of next gen we might see some 8K apps (Netflix, YouTube, Media Player)...
And for PS5 to be able to support 8K it needs HDMI 2.1 with all the other goodies that come with it.
 

mckmas8808

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Thanks for this. Man so now I have to buy a A/V Receiver and a 8K TV with HDMI 2.1 if I want to future proof my home theater room next summer.

A few already replied but more importantly, future proofing.
At the end of next gen we might see some 8K apps (Netflix, YouTube, Media Player)...
And for PS5 to be able to support 8K it needs HDMI 2.1 with all the other goodies that come with it.
Something tells me that Netflix, Disney+, and Youtube will have 8K video with Dynamic HDR+ before the PS5's generation is finished.
 
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Croatoan

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Jun 24, 2014
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I recently got a 2080ti and was a bit surprised to see it struggle to run some games 4k 60fps maxed.

Anyone that thinks ps5 or xbx2 is going to do 4k 60fps is delusional.

1440p with some decent AA looks pretty close to 4k in my tests though and that is completely doable by both next gen consoles.
 

~Fake

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I recently got a 2080ti and was a bit surprised to see it struggle to run some games 4k 60fps maxed.
Anyone that thinks ps5 or xbx2 is going to do 4k 60fps is delusional.
Delusional are the casual pc players who try to beat poor game optimization with PC brute force. You already know that when you play on your PC using your dupersuper 2080ti you normally play games at 'native' resolution, do you know that right?
Consoles in the other hand are using and abusing of many dev/engine tricks features like 'Checkerboard rendering', 'Temporal injection', 'Dynamic resolution', 'Temporal reconstruction' etc... to achieve 4k or even 8k 'IF' in the next years next gen consoles push a new wave of tricks like those I mention.
Do you know that too right? So much for delusional.
 
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Negotiator

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4k60 is a given for properly optimized cross-gen (not next-gen) games (TLOU2, Halo Infinite etc.)

Hell, games like Borderlands 3 struggle running even on high-end PCs and it would be silly to suggest the hardware is at fault, especially when we've seen what Gears 5 can do on an RX 580.

I find it very ironic that AAA devs still struggle with DX12 vs DX11 that performs better. That strategy ain't gonna fly next-gen.

DX11 bottlenecks even 9900k running at 5+ GHz when it comes to draw calls in demanding AAA games (like AC Odyssey). They need to get their shit together before Zen 2 @ 3.2 GHz becomes the next-gen baseline.
 
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Sosokrates

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I don't think we will get a lower tier console.
Sony and ms will market the pro and 1x for a couple of years for gamers on a budget, also there streaming services will be a "budget" option.
I think with streaming, the need for a lower tier console is reduced.

Also there will be more 60fps games next gen then there was this gen, not all games need lots of CPU, this gen saw a solid leap and the jaguar cpus are not much more powerful then last gen cpus, in fact the PS3 cpu is a bit more powerful then the 8 core jaguars, however next gen is different not only are we getting substantial GPU + ram upgrades but we are also getting a serious CPU upgrade 4x more powerful then this gen.
I think next gen they will be able to make a game at 4k 60fps and still have CPU left over for more drawcalls, polycount, A.I, NPC count + complexity and other CPU tasks.

Next gen is going to be bigger leap then some are expecting because they will be designing a game from the ground up from a vastly more powerful starting point, not an obselete 1.31tflop gpu, a netbook CPU and 5gb of slow ram.

Think TLOU2 at 4k 60fps, better lighting effects, animation, npc sophistication, higher polycount and environmental realism.
 
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FranXico

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4chan rumor. You guys know the drill. Take it with a truckload of salt.

Most of that stuff is just counter-productive. Sounds like a wishlist made up by someone who isn't even aware of PS4 BC on the PS5.
 
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TLZ

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I recently got a 2080ti and was a bit surprised to see it struggle to run some games 4k 60fps maxed.

Anyone that thinks ps5 or xbx2 is going to do 4k 60fps is delusional.

1440p with some decent AA looks pretty close to 4k in my tests though and that is completely doable by both next gen consoles.
You have to take into account that you're maybe playing with everything on ultra, plus much higher framerates, while consoles possibly push medium or high details with lower framerates and can thus go higher on resolution.
 
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Whitecrow

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Delusional are the casual pc players who try to beat poor game optimization with PC brute force. You already know that when you play on your PC using your dupersuper 2080ti you normally play games at 'native' resolution, do you know that right?
Consoles in the other hand are using and abusing of many dev/engine tricks features like 'Checkerboard rendering', 'Temporal injection', 'Dynamic resolution', 'Temporal reconstruction' etc... to achieve 4k or even 8k 'IF' in the next years next gen consoles push a new wave of tricks like those I mention.
Do you know that too right? So much for delusional.
This.

It's also true that brute force can overcome a bit of bad optimization, but sadly, not all of it.

The 2080ti is not much of an improvement over previous cards aside from Ray Tracing cores.
 
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Croatoan

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Delusional are the casual pc players who try to beat poor game optimization with PC brute force. You already know that when you play on your PC using your dupersuper 2080ti you normally play games at 'native' resolution, do you know that right?
Consoles in the other hand are using and abusing of many dev/engine tricks features like 'Checkerboard rendering', 'Temporal injection', 'Dynamic resolution', 'Temporal reconstruction' etc... to achieve 4k or even 8k 'IF' in the next years next gen consoles push a new wave of tricks like those I mention.
Do you know that too right? So much for delusional.
So much butthurt. Running native 4k at 60fps on next gen consoles is delusion. I don't give a shit about tricks, none of it looks as good as native 4k 60-120fps. You can convince yourself otherwise all you want though... 1440p 60fps, or 4k 30fps with drops (YUCK!), will be possible on the ~GTX 2070/2060 gpus consoles will be getting though.
You'll just have to be happy with that.


That’s what we’re getting with the current gen.
Not at 60fps....

You have to take into account that you're maybe playing with everything on ultra, plus much higher framerates, while consoles possibly push medium or high details with lower framerates and can thus go higher on resolution.
You are correct, but 60fps should be the standard. Force devs to make all games 60fps and we will see gaming move forward. My biggest complaint with console gaming is that we allow devs to make 30fps games.
 
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vpance

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bitbydeath

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DeepEnigma

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~Fake

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So much butthurt. Running native 4k at 60fps on next gen consoles is delusion. I don't give a shit about tricks, none of it looks as good as native 4k 60-120fps. You can convince yourself otherwise all you want though... 1440p 60fps, or 4k 30fps with drops (YUCK!), will be possible on the ~GTX 2070/2060 gpus consoles will be getting though.
You'll just have to be happy with that.
I love when someone say 'butthurt' into his argument...
Where I said games will run at native 4k 60 fps on next gen consoles?
Re-read my post again mate. Its not that hard.
 
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rəddəM

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I’ll say it.

Games will be running native 4K, 60FPS next-gen.
Even though there's a small chance of 30fps but ray traced to the max cinematic games returning, I would bet next gen is powerful enough for 60fps native 4k with RT.
But nothing comes with sacrifices and RT demands it. Maybe 4k checkerboard 60fps with heavy ray tracing.
 
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Negotiator

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RT will probably be the framerate killer next-gen, not the CPU.

Hopefully they'll offer more options.

If the GPU is not a bottleneck, they can go all the way up to 240 fps (4x CPU performance* on Jaguar-based 60 fps games like Fortnite/Apex/Doom etc).

* in general purpose/integer workloads. In SIMD/FPU performance it's actually 8 times faster (102.4GF for Jaguar @ 1.6 GHz/128-bit FPU vs 819.2GF for Zen 2 @ 3.2 GHz/256-bit FPU).
 

Croatoan

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I’ll say it.

Games will be running native 4K, 60FPS next-gen.
How will AAA games hit 4k 60fps? They aren't going to have anything like a 2080ti in them and they will not even come close to matching high end PCs in other ways.

This same crap came up with ps4 and I said the same things and was proven right. Sony isn't going to put a $1000 GPU in their unit so there is no chance for native 4k 60fps AAA games. Some indies will for sure though.
 
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bitbydeath

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How will AAA games hit 4k 60fps? They aren't going to have anything like a 2080ti in them and they will not even come close to matching high end PCs in other ways.

This same crap came up with ps4 and I said the same things and was proven right. Sony isn't going to put a $1000 GPU in their unit so there is no chance for native 4k 60fps AAA games. Some indies will for sure though.
You were right about what?
PS4 did standardise 1080P.

Some indies will reach 8K.
 

mckmas8808

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You are correct, but 60fps should be the standard. Force devs to make all games 60fps and we will see gaming move forward. My biggest complaint with console gaming is that we allow devs to make 30fps games.
The bolded would be the dumbest thing any console maker could do.
 

Croatoan

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You were right about what?
PS4 did standardise 1080P.

Some indies will reach 8K.
I was right about the PS4 not being able to do 1080p 60fps on AAA titles. Most can barely reach 30fps.
I was right about the PS4 not being able to hold a candle to PCs on launch. It was weak at launch.
I was right about there not being an ounce of "Special Sauce" for either console. Still laughable.

Of coarse some 2d game will reach 8k, nobody cares about that. They care about the next sony exlusive being 4k 60fps. Which it wont, because the PS5 will be weak out of the box just like the PS4. Sony cannot afford to try to fight the PC and people are too worried about power costs to ask for a truly strong machine.

That doesn't mean the PS5 or Xbox 2 will be bad or anything. I just think people need to be realistic that 4k 30fps or 1440p 60fps are the ceilings for next gen consoles for AAA style titles. Hopefully devs give us a choice between the two because I would take 1440p 60fps with a little aa any day of the week.


The bolded would be the dumbest thing any console maker could do.
60fps is a better standard than 30fps. Why would that be dumb? A lot of people would notice the sudden jump to 60 for everything and see that as "next gen".
 
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mckmas8808

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60fps is a better standard than 30fps. Why would that be dumb? A lot of people would notice the sudden jump to 60 for everything and see that as "next gen".
Because nobody should force that high level of framerate on developers. Plus 30 fps is a playable frame rate. And on top of that, everyone will notice the "next-gen" when they see a ND game at 30 fps with RT with a 1440p resolution with CB turned on to make it look like 4K native.
 

Croatoan

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Because nobody should force that high level of framerate on developers. Plus 30 fps is a playable frame rate. And on top of that, everyone will notice the "next-gen" when they see a ND game at 30 fps with RT with a 1440p resolution with CB turned on to make it look like 4K native.
IMO 30 fps is not a playable framerate. It makes me physically ill to play games that low, which is why I play most of my games on PC (with a controller) despite liking consoles better. This is also why I wish consoles used desktop GPUs so you could just put whichever one you wanted in the PS5 and rock.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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Because nobody should force that high level of framerate on developers. Plus 30 fps is a playable frame rate. And on top of that, everyone will notice the "next-gen" when they see a ND game at 30 fps with RT with a 1440p resolution with CB turned on to make it look like 4K native.
Some of us can't stand 30 fps.

Please give me the option to turn off RT and give me higher frames.

To me all day long minimum 60 fps with RT off will rule 30 fps with RT.