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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & Next Xbox |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Next Gen Consoles Power Level


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    309

mckmas8808

Member
May 24, 2005
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IMO 30 fps is not a playable framerate. It makes me physically ill to play games that low, which is why I play most of my games on PC (with a controller) despite liking consoles better. This is also why I wish consoles used desktop GPUs so you could just put whichever one you wanted in the PS5 and rock.
That's fine and I believe you. But for the majority of gamers on Earth, a steady 30 fps is good. So there's no reason to make my games worse, just because you want a 60 fps mandate.
 

Lort

Member
Jul 9, 2017
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I was right about the PS4 not being able to do 1080p 60fps on AAA titles. Most can barely reach 30fps.
I was right about the PS4 not being able to hold a candle to PCs on launch. It was weak at launch.
I was right about there not being an ounce of "Special Sauce" for either console. Still laughable.

Of coarse some 2d game will reach 8k, nobody cares about that. They care about the next sony exlusive being 4k 60fps. Which it wont, because the PS5 will be weak out of the box just like the PS4. Sony cannot afford to try to fight the PC and people are too worried about power costs to ask for a truly strong machine.

That doesn't mean the PS5 or Xbox 2 will be bad or anything. I just think people need to be realistic that 4k 30fps or 1440p 60fps are the ceilings for next gen consoles for AAA style titles. Hopefully devs give us a choice between the two because I would take 1440p 60fps with a little aa any day of the week.



60fps is a better standard than 30fps. Why would that be dumb? A lot of people would notice the sudden jump to 60 for everything and see that as "next gen".
Some of what you say is based on truth, other parts like 1440p 60 fps “cap” on next gen are hyperbole.

I have just been playing Gears of War 5 with awesome graphics at 4k hdr 60 fps. Yes it has dynamic res but never goes as low as 1440p and uses the same techniques as Spiderman to maintain image quality when its not 4k.

Many if not most next gen games will be 4k 60.
 

PocoJoe

Member
Jul 9, 2018
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natural thumb position is up. thumb on movement stick and thumbs on facebuttons. with ps controller your thumbs are constantly pressed down.
No they are not. How the heck are you gripping if you feel like that?

DS4 = both thumbs rest perfectly at the sticks when they are relaxed.

Xbox = right thumb rests and left have to be "pressed up left" or having different grip and that doesnt work because rest of the controller is not asymmetrical

Do you have hand size of 5 years old? Hard to imagine that adult would have to press down to reach sticks on sony.

Ps. I think you are talking bullshit as you wöuld also complain about reaching one of the sticks on xbox if this would really be an issue
 

ksdixon

Member
Jul 31, 2010
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Man the pop-in on Division 2 on regular PS4 is bad. I'm literally running down the street seeing trees materialise in front of me. Will the various improvements in PS5 hardware improve this when I run that game on that system?
 

ksdixon

Member
Jul 31, 2010
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Shame it's not real. I really like the idea of PS5 being disc-based backwards compatible. But I thought that was impossible? Don't PS3 and PS4 use different colored lasers to read their blu ray discs?

I actually really like the area on the front that the disc pops out of, on this mockup.
 
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bitbydeath

Member
Nov 25, 2015
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Man the pop-in on Division 2 on regular PS4 is bad. I'm literally running down the street seeing trees materialise in front of me. Will the various improvements in PS5 hardware improve this when I run that game on that system?
Yes. Sony already touched on this which you can see demoed in the below video.

 
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FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
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Really not a fan of those Vs everywhere. I like the little touches, like the display next to the disc tray, but not the other stuff.

And that claim of BC all the way to PS1 should really not be getting encouraged. I realistically expect it to be BC only with PS4 games. Would love to be proven wrong, of course.
 

Negotiator

Member
Jun 28, 2011
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I really like the idea of PS5 being disc-based backwards compatible. But I thought that was impossible? Don't PS3 and PS4 use different colored lasers to read their blu ray discs?
Nope, it uses the exact same tech. The only difference is the speed (2x CLV vs 6x P-CAV).



It's a shame they stopped developing new optical (and more dense) media.

Man the pop-in on Division 2 on regular PS4 is bad. I'm literally running down the street seeing trees materialise in front of me. Will the various improvements in PS5 hardware improve this when I run that game on that system?
According to Cerny, yes, but you're gonna need a PS5 patch for the ultimate improvement.
 
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Sycomunkee

Member
Jan 21, 2019
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Shame it's not real. I really like the idea of PS5 being disc-based backwards compatible. But I thought that was impossible? Don't PS3 and PS4 use different colored lasers to read their blu ray discs?

I actually really like the area on the front that the disc pops out of, on this mockup.
I mean, what may actually happen is that the console will recognize the disc, then download it from PSN. You would then need a disc inserted into the drive to play as a DRM thing.
 
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Negotiator

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The download process is too heavy for the ARM chip alone, so the Jaguar-based CPU of the main APU (Accelerated Processing Unit, that includes CPU and GPU) is called into action to do the heavy lifting and protocol processing.

That causes the power saving effect of the ARM chip to be diluted during that kind of heavier activity. While this is the situation with the present design, Ito-san specified that it could change with further iterations of the console’s design.
I wonder if PS4 Pro has a more powerful ARM CPU, since it's got more RAM. Probably not, but it looks like they finally fixed it in the PS5. 1-2 A72 cores would be fine to handle OS tasks.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Mar 31, 2014
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Twitter links never load for me on Neogaf, weird. Is this the power reduction at idle thing?

With a big feature of the PS5 being the rather fast (PCI-E 4) SSD, my guess is instead of leaving the game in RAM as the PS4 does, this can dump it to disk and effectively hibernate like a PC, and the resume would just be seconds more than just turning on with it in RAM already with how fast it’s going to be. The difference between hibernate power draw and off power draw is slim to none as the PC is effectively off (I guess they said 0.5W just to cover any vampire draw).

My guess anyways. I also hope as N Negotiator said that the ARM APU is up to snuff this time and can take even more OS functions off the main cores.
 

Sycomunkee

Member
Jan 21, 2019
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Twitter links never load for me on Neogaf, weird. Is this the power reduction at idle thing?

With a big feature of the PS5 being the rather fast (PCI-E 4) SSD, my guess is instead of leaving the game in RAM as the PS4 does, this can dump it to disk and effectively hibernate like a PC, and the resume would just be seconds more than just turning on with it in RAM already with how fast it’s going to be. The difference between hibernate power draw and off power draw is slim to none as the PC is effectively off (I guess they said 0.5W just to cover any vampire draw).

My guess anyways. I also hope as N Negotiator said that the ARM APU is up to snuff this time and can take even more OS functions off the main cores.
I've noticed, that when using an ad-blocker, Tweets sometimes do not appear.
 
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Negotiator

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Jun 28, 2011
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With a big feature of the PS5 being the rather fast (PCI-E 4) SSD, my guess is instead of leaving the game in RAM as the PS4 does, this can dump it to disk and effectively hibernate like a PC, and the resume would just be seconds more than just turning on with it in RAM already with how fast it’s going to be. The difference between hibernate power draw and off power draw is slim to none as the PC is effectively off (I guess they said 0.5W just to cover any vampire draw).
Won't that cause more wear & tear on the SSD? Especially with cheap NAND (QLC) chips.

I'd rather have the option of suspend to RAM, even if it consumes a bit more power. PS4 is like 7-8W (probably less if you disable USB charging).

OG XB1 consumes around 15-20W in sleep mode, despite the fact that it uses DDR3 (GDDR5 is supposed to be more power hungry, but they heavily reduce clocks in rest mode, so it's not a big deal).
 
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PaNaMa

Member
Jul 20, 2007
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In my worthless opinion, it's well passed high time for some concrete info on these new consoles. And I'm not talking about how much energy they use when they're sleeping. Where are the real leaks man!! Phil said on that Destiny stream a week or two ago he's playing games on Scarlett hardware now, so someone out there knows something! Come on leakers, get leaking!
 

LordOfChaos

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Mar 31, 2014
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Won't that cause more wear & tear on the SSD? Especially with cheap NAND (QLC) chips.

I'd rather have the option of suspend to RAM, even if it consumes a bit more power. PS4 is like 7-8W (probably less if you disable USB charging).

OG XB1 consumes around 15-20W in sleep mode, despite the fact that it uses DDR3 (GDDR5 is supposed to be more power hungry, but they heavily reduce clocks in rest mode, so it's not a big deal).

That's likely why it's an option you have to actively turn on, rather than being default. Probably appeasing some regulation or tax credit somewhere.
 
Jul 29, 2013
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The Big 3 are part of a EU voluntary compliance agreement to produce energy efficient consoles. I posted this way back in the thread, but basically they set energy standards for different types of consoles, and the different modes they operate in. They are sent an Annual Compliance Report and a rep for each company tests the system in different modes with movies and games.

Efficient Gaming EU

If you feel like letting your inner autist out, have a read through all their annual meetings and compliance reports.
 

sonomamashine

Member
Jun 29, 2019
695
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285
In my worthless opinion, it's well passed high time for some concrete info on these new consoles. And I'm not talking about how much energy they use when they're sleeping. Where are the real leaks man!! Phil said on that Destiny stream a week or two ago he's playing games on Scarlett hardware now, so someone out there knows something! Come on leakers, get leaking!
there is nothing, it's dry, RX 5300 xt (Navi 14) spotted 4Gb GDDR5 (not 6) Vram maybe something Nintendo will use for their next gen console (just speculation) would benefit them porting games easily & stack their library.
 
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Negotiator

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That's likely why it's an option you have to actively turn on, rather than being default. Probably appeasing some regulation or tax credit somewhere.
If we have an option to choose between suspend to RAM, suspend to disk and fully turned off, that's fine. I just hope suspend to RAM won't be replaced by suspend to disk. :)
 

SonGoku

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Aug 16, 2018
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SonGoku SonGoku should op be update with watt comparison between ps4xps5?
link?
I being talking with John from Digital Foundry on twitter about that.
'Options' should be standard for next gen.
That wont always be possible on consoles considering devs optimize their game around a fixed spec
4K/30 -> 1080P/60 option would be nice but it wont always be possible.
 
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~Fake

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Dec 20, 2018
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That wont always be possible on consoles considering devs optimize their game around a fixed spec
4K/30 -> 1080P/60 option would be nice but it wont always be possible.
Its already possible in most of first party games.
We already are very familiar with 'resolution mode' and 'perfomamce mode' this generation, at least on PRO/X.
And I don't even asking this, but I quite happy with the CoD MW beta options have.

I mean, an option to turn off motion blur, weapon motion blur, film grain and even gibs. They're going very far in this and I like it.
Damn, even an option to turn off crossplay.
 
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~Fake

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Dec 20, 2018
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Most dont double the framerate at 1080p
I mean, an 'option' betwen performance over quality or virse-versa.
Keep in mind that even with the option don't mean you'll get a stable 30 while resolution mode or either a locked 60 while perfomance mode. Its always up with devs.
But still, the more options we get the more some users will be pleasure. No more excuse about 'buhh, I hate "X" or I love "Y". Will be there for you to choise what suites you.
 
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SonGoku

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Aug 16, 2018
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At 0.5 watts, that's incredibly low.
is it that surprising though? Most of the system is off
I mean, an 'option' betwen performance over quality or virse-versa.
Keep in mind that even with the option don't mean you'll get a stable 30 while resolution mode or either a locked 60 while perfomance mode. Its always up with devs.
But still, the more options we get the more some users will be pleasure. No more excuse about 'buhh, I hate "X" or I love "Y". Will be there fou you to choise what suites you.
i see, i just brought it up to avoid common misconception when people hear performance mode they assume 60fps, which won't necessarily be the case.
 

xool

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May 29, 2018
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The "EU low power off" thing is a legacy of when TVs/HiFi systems had massive iron cored transformers in the power supply that remained energized in standby mode and drew a lot of power because of their low efficiency.

Now all that is needed is a tiny microcontroller to monitor the power button, (and possibly a wireless chip) for an on signal so that it can switch a relay to start sucking power again.

0.5W standby is pretty normal for home electronics standby mode in the EU nowadays..


Now if they could keep the GDDR6 to retain memory in that 0.5W standby mode I would be impressed .. I don't think that is what we will get though [edit - this Enhancing DRAM Self-Refresh for Idle Power Reduction puts lowest self refresh power at ~6W for 32GB of DDR4 .. too high )
 
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xool

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May 29, 2018
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with 2+GB/s SSD is it needed though?
I think they were talking about traditional standby, but not sure.

That's 8 sec shutdown or start then for 16GB .. not that bad if they can get games loading as soon as you press power on .. hide it behind a splash screen and you're good ..
 
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SonGoku

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I think the real takeaway is that the PS4 uses way too much power when suspended.
how much power ps4 uses?
I think they were talking about traditional standby, but not sure.

That's 8 sec shutdown or start then for 16GB .. not that bad if they can get games loading as soon as you press power on .. hide it behind a splash screen and you're good ..
10 sec for 20GB but SSD speed could be higher (4-10GB/s) and with clever menus it'll go unnoticed
Maybe 5W for traditional standby?
 
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LordOfChaos

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I think they were talking about traditional standby, but not sure.

That's 8 sec shutdown or start then for 16GB .. not that bad if they can get games loading as soon as you press power on .. hide it behind a splash screen and you're good ..

They said it's an optional opt in feature, so my guess is by default it sleeps to RAM and takes a few watts more, but you can opt in to deep sleep where it'll dump to the fast SSD and resume in a few seconds more, being all but off in power draw.