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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & Next Xbox |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Next Gen Consoles Power Level


  • Total voters
    309

ArabianPrynce

Member
Jun 4, 2019
159
131
195
Hmm I am still sticking with 9-10tflop even with the latest wire article all Sony seems to focus on is the CPU and ssd very little specifics on the gpu tflops. If they have a Kajiu lvl 14 or 13 tflops they would be singing it to the heavens.
 

ArabianPrynce

Member
Jun 4, 2019
159
131
195
Peeps are hungry for next-gen leaks/rumors, so I delivered:



Source: https://forum.beyond3d.com/members/fehu.7520/

7TF GPU and 800 GB/s of memory bandwidth doesn't make sense to me, but whatever.

The CPU also seems woefully underpowered for a next-gen jump. Roughly the same clocks as Pro (2.13 GHz) and X (2.3 GHz), double IPC. Nothing to brag about.

2TB SSD is a bit excessive. I'd rather have 1TB if that means more budget to the APU (CPU/GPU).
Lmaooooooo, no way they are releasing this garbage when the pro exist lmao
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Mar 31, 2014
9,196
1,284
710
Peeps are hungry for next-gen leaks/rumors, so I delivered:



Source: https://forum.beyond3d.com/members/fehu.7520/

7TF GPU and 800 GB/s of memory bandwidth doesn't make sense to me, but whatever.

The CPU also seems woefully underpowered for a next-gen jump. Roughly the same clocks as Pro (2.13 GHz) and X (2.3 GHz), double IPC. Nothing to brag about.

2TB SSD is a bit excessive. I'd rather have 1TB if that means more budget to the APU (CPU/GPU).

Does their 'veteran' rank mean they haven't been banned so far for nonsense leaks on b3d? Wondering if their posting history had any rumors that came out to be true.

It does sound low even for the pessimistic 8-9Tflop range, if they have any credibility, maybe just a non-final version of the dev kit for gradually increasing build targets?



Edit:

about 7TF, frequency not finalized

Er, but one is directly influenced by the other, how can they know the Tflops but not the clock speed?

Edit 2: It doesn't really seem like B3D is taking them at their word as if they were an old reliable leaker.
 
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McHuj

Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Austin, Tx.
Like posted there, the BW and TF numbers would only make sense if the raytracing hardware was really significant. Basically in this scanario, a lot of the traditional GPU algorithms are done by the RT (lighting, shadows, etc) so you don't need as many traditional flops. I could see a 7TF+lots of RT HW GPU providing much better visuals than a ~10-12 TF GPU but with very limited RT support.

I think that would be really cool and games might look spectacular because of that, but I have my doubts as that would be a very involved custom solution.
 

Negotiator

Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,355
926
720
Like posted there, the BW and TF numbers would only make sense if the raytracing hardware was really significant. Basically in this scanario, a lot of the traditional GPU algorithms are done by the RT (lighting, shadows, etc) so you don't need as many traditional flops. I could see a 7TF+lots of RT HW GPU providing much better visuals than a ~10-12 TF GPU but with very limited RT support.

I think that would be really cool and games might look spectacular because of that, but I have my doubts as that would be a very involved custom solution.
Sounds like a modern PS3/Cell equivalent. Kinda exotic, but lots of effort needed, which would definitely affect the porting process.
 

Imtjnotu

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,084
1,593
390
san diego
PS4 has a 6x BD-ROM drive (around 1GB per minute). It takes 45 minutes max to install a full disc (45GB).

PS5 might take the same time with 100GB discs and 12x BD-ROM drive.

The real question is, how are they going to handle cross-gen (PS4/PS5) games? 100GB/BDXL is not compatible with PS4 consoles.
They aren't going to make PS5 games for ps4
 

vpance

Member
Jun 20, 2005
7,156
357
1,380
That guy seems pretty sure of himself. Confirmed rumors already debunk it (Klee 10TF+ for both consoles). If it's anything, he's describing base model PS5.

Like posted there, the BW and TF numbers would only make sense if the raytracing hardware was really significant. Basically in this scanario, a lot of the traditional GPU algorithms are done by the RT (lighting, shadows, etc) so you don't need as many traditional flops. I could see a 7TF+lots of RT HW GPU providing much better visuals than a ~10-12 TF GPU but with very limited RT support.

I think that would be really cool and games might look spectacular because of that, but I have my doubts as that would be a very involved custom solution.
I really doubt they would go that custom on RT. Especially when they have to think about games running on MS cloud solutions in the future.

Also at around 300nm2, no amount of specialized cores is going to give that much of boost to match a 12TF GPU that's like 50% bigger.
 
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McHuj

Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Austin, Tx.
Sounds like a modern PS3/Cell equivalent. Kinda exotic, but lots of effort needed, which would definitely affect the porting process.
Yeah, that's why I'm skeptical.

The rumor indicated that it's also some hybrid between RDNA and RDNA2. We don't know much about RDNA2, but its conceivable that there may another efficiency game in terms of actual performance/TF. We know there were big gains when comparing GCN to RDNA. The same could happen again.
 

sonomamashine

Member
Jun 29, 2019
694
356
285
Peeps are hungry for next-gen leaks/rumors, so I delivered:



Source: https://forum.beyond3d.com/members/fehu.7520/

7TF GPU and 800 GB/s of memory bandwidth doesn't make sense to me, but whatever.

The CPU also seems woefully underpowered for a next-gen jump. Roughly the same clocks as Pro (2.13 GHz) and X (2.3 GHz), double IPC. Nothing to brag about.

2TB SSD is a bit excessive. I'd rather have 1TB if that means more budget to the APU (CPU/GPU).
Usually leaks make sense, this is not a leak just someone posting misinformed random stuff, low clock on CPU, underpowered GPU and too much Ram + SSD storage, the best part was "Ok, now i can talk" fckin brilliant.
 
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Negotiator

Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,355
926
720

Nintendo is not going back to AMD, unless they have suicidal tendencies (you can kiss Switch BC goodbye).

Nintendo is forced to stay with nVidia due to NVN API and custom nVidia libraries (physics etc). There are both technical and legal hurdles, if OG XBOX BC tells us something.
 
Jul 29, 2013
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CurryPanda CurryPanda

I'm having a hard time understanding who the people talking on the chinese PC site are. Looks like they're saying Anubis and Arden were Xbox, and now Anubis is gone and Arden is the only chip moving forward. Having a hard time remembering these rumors. I think Anubis was...https://pastebin.com/y8qXme7b
SOC: Anubis ( 393mm2 )

CPU: Custom Zen 2, 8 Cores 16 Threads @ 3.4GHz Built-in with DirectX 12.X, DXR, DirectML and Havok instructions into the chip.

GPU: Custom Navi 21, Full 56 Compute Units @ 1623MHz

RT: 1 RTC per Compute Unit

RAM: 48GB GDDR6 @ 560GB/s

STORAGE: 1TB+4TB SSD NVMe PCIe 4.0 @ 4GB/s, Flexible Dedicated vRAM starts with 32GB ( Up-to 64GB )

AUDIO: Custom Tensilica HIFI DSP

I/O: 2x HDMI 2.1, 4x USB-C ( Thunderbolt ), 2x USB-A, 2x RJ-45, 1x S-PDIF, 1x IR-OUT, Bluetooth 5.0, WIFI Direct, WIFI IEEE 802.11ax

API: DirectX 12.X, DXR, DirectML
PSU: 275W
This new rumor says 350mm² Arden remains, and Oberon(Gonzalo, Flute, etc?) is 300mm². What's Sparkman supposed to be? Somebody seemed to hint at Nintendo, but they're with Nvidia atm.
 
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CurryPanda

Will restrain his sexual perversions
Mar 4, 2019
10,134
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1,180
CurryPanda CurryPanda

I'm having a hard time understanding who the people talking on the chinese PC site are. Looks like they're saying Anubis and Arden were Xbox, and now Anubis is gone and Arden is the only chip moving forward. Having a hard time remembering these rumors. I think Anubis was...https://pastebin.com/y8qXme7b

This new rumor says 350mm² Arden remains, and Oberon(Gonzalo, Flute, etc?) is 300mm². What's Sparkman supposed to be? Somebody seemed to hint at Nintendo, but they're with Nvidia atm.
That’s pretty much what they were saying. I’m confused by it all too, though.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Nov 25, 2015
8,563
6,557
905
CurryPanda CurryPanda

I'm having a hard time understanding who the people talking on the chinese PC site are. Looks like they're saying Anubis and Arden were Xbox, and now Anubis is gone and Arden is the only chip moving forward. Having a hard time remembering these rumors. I think Anubis was...https://pastebin.com/y8qXme7b

This new rumor says 350mm² Arden remains, and Oberon(Gonzalo, Flute, etc?) is 300mm². What's Sparkman supposed to be? Somebody seemed to hint at Nintendo, but they're with Nvidia atm.
That RAM though.:messenger_grinning_squinting:
 

Mass Shift

Member
Jun 12, 2019
274
217
295
CurryPanda CurryPanda

I'm having a hard time understanding who the people talking on the chinese PC site are. Looks like they're saying Anubis and Arden were Xbox, and now Anubis is gone and Arden is the only chip moving forward. Having a hard time remembering these rumors. I think Anubis was...https://pastebin.com/y8qXme7b

This new rumor says 350mm² Arden remains, and Oberon(Gonzalo, Flute, etc?) is 300mm². What's Sparkman supposed to be? Somebody seemed to hint at Nintendo, but they're with Nvidia atm.
Arden can't be anything belonging to Xbox because Arden is a forest in Shakespeare's play "As You Like It"

This all continues the Shakespeare motifs we've seen revealed thus far.
 
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Jul 29, 2013
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bitbydeath bitbydeath
Whoever this is commenting says, "Anubis is no longer doing, it may be development machine code...Arden is moving faster...Oberon still in early stages of verification...Arden more than a size bigger than OBR[Oberon]."

Anubis was probably the devkit for Anaconda(Plan A: Big Anaconda, Small Lockhart). Arden in this rumor is being described more in line with Scarlett(Plan B: Only 1 model) and what they showed in the reveal(newer ~350-360mm estimates). All speculation, of course.

M Mass Shift
That's true, nice catch. Maybe they're AMD's internal codes? Just have to wait for more details.🤷‍♂️

---
Concerning Sparkman, looks like a member on that site said it might be the 2nd generation of "Chinese Little King Z"(SuborZ+?).
 

bitbydeath

Member
Nov 25, 2015
8,563
6,557
905
bitbydeath bitbydeath
Whoever this is commenting says, "Anubis is no longer doing, it may be development machine code...Arden is moving faster...Oberon still in early stages of verification...Arden more than a size bigger than OBR[Oberon]."

Anubis was probably the devkit for Anaconda(Plan A: Big Anaconda, Small Lockhart). Arden in this rumor is being described more in line with Scarlett(Plan B: Only 1 model) and what they showed in the reveal(newer ~350-360mm estimates). All speculation, of course.
88GB of RAM is not believable in any stretch of the imagination even for a super-dooper powerful machine.
 
Jul 29, 2013
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88GB of RAM is not believable in any stretch of the imagination even for a super-dooper powerful machine.
48GB? Well, this was just a Pastebin I remembered that mentioned Anubis. I don't recall seeing any believable Pastebins, just collecting any info relevant to Anubis or Arden. I'll try to do some more digging on both so I can refresh my memory.

More history on codenames...Brad Sams, Xbox Codenames, Jan. 2019:
He's using Reee- as his source. I'll have to see where they pulled it.
 
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bitbydeath

Member
Nov 25, 2015
8,563
6,557
905
48GB was the early build.
Retail states 88GB (in the same link)

  1. Scarlett ( Retail )
  2. -*Targeting Performance.
  3. -Final version around Aug 2020.

  4. SOC: Anubis ( 393mm2 )
  5. CPU: Custom Zen 2, 8 Cores 16 Threads @ 3.4GHz Built-in with DirectX 12.X, DXR, DirectML and Havok instructions into the chip.
  6. GPU: Custom Navi 21, 52 Compute Units @ 1623MHz
  7. RT: 1 RTC per Compute Unit
  8. RAM: 24GB GDDR6 @ 560GB/s ( Samsung 12x2GB ), 18GB GDDR6 + 2GB GDDR6 Cache + 32GB~64GB SSD vRAM ( Up-to 84GB for Game ) and Dedicated 4GB GDDR6 for OS ( Native 4K60/120FPS Dashboard )
  9. STORAGE: 1TB SSD NVMe PCIe 4.0 @ 4GB/s, Flexible Dedicated vRAM starts with 32GB ( Up-to 64GB )
  10. AUDIO: Custom Tensilica HIFI DSP
  11. I/O: 2x HDMI 2.1, 2x USB-C ( Thunderbolt ), 2x USB-A, 1x RJ-45, 1x S-PDIF, 1x IR-OUT, Bluetooth 5.0, WIFI Direct, WIFI IEEE 802.11ax
  12. API: DirectX 12.X, DXR, DirectML
  13. PSU: 275W
 
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Jul 29, 2013
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bitbydeath bitbydeath

That's 24GB GDDR6 total, half of the alleged dev kit. The 24GB splits into: 18GB VRAM, 2GB "Cache", and 4GB OS. Still sounds like a BS rumor based on some half-truths and forum scrounging. Brad Sams in that vid says he vaguely recalls Anubis being some old MS project. He says(based on Reee- posts) that Arden is Xbox. There was also some random leak about "Argulus".

Would AMD give them both Shakespearean names? Seems odd. Still trying to find the original mention of Arden.
 
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Kazekage1981

Neo Member
Apr 7, 2019
35
23
120
I/O: 2x HDMI 2.1, 4x USB-C ( Thunderbolt ), 2x USB-A, 2x RJ-45, 1x S-PDIF, 1x IR-OUT, Bluetooth 5.0, WIFI Direct, WIFI IEEE 802.11ax
Why would they use thunderbolt considering its Intels proprietary technology? USB 4.0 makes much more sense considering its basically thunderbolt without the licensing fees.

RAM: 48GB GDDR6 @ 560GB/s
All that RAM with Low Bandwidth?! It should be atleast close to 1 TB/sec.
 
Jul 29, 2013
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I’m confused, why does it state 84GB for game?
They are using "32GB~64GB SSD vRAM" for virtual memory. This rumor seems bunk, but it's relevent to new claim from the Chinese user on the forum linked above that said Anubis was cancelled, Arden is ~350mm², and Oberon is ~300mm².
---
I'm digging through old shit and from what I can tell, the origin of the Arden name is the PCI-e database. Brad Sams mentioning Hmqgg from Reee- is the oldest mention so far. I'm going back through old Komachi and Apisak tweets and I'll dump them in this quote so I don't clutter too much.
This one is from Aug 12, 2019, and then I'll work back through to earlier references. I think he's pulling from the pci-e database.

So Oberon is tied to GPU_ariel refs , while Arden references GPU_arden. He tied Gonzalo to Ariel earlier, and the clocks from Oberon are a match for PS4 and PS4 Pro, and a new faster core clock of 2GHz compared to Gonzalo


Translation "You can see the word "RayTracing" in things like Arden's test results ... "
---


Arden, Oberon, Sparkman mention
---

Interesting conversation concerning Ariel and Arden. "Arden is X2, My birdie also said too, plus chiplet". Is X2 a product or meaning multiple of something? Curious they added, "plus chiplet" *Looked into this and since this user refers to Xbox One as "X1", this would seem to translate, "Arden is Xbox 2, my birdie said too, plus chiplet." Wonder is they will go with the X1S, X1X, X2S, X2X, X3S, etc naming convention I was suggesting a while back?
---

Now I'm remembering this shit from April 20, 2019. It was posted across B3D, Twitter, and Reee-.
---

Arden is possibly name of the SoC, while GPU could be ID "1607"

Also, this tweet is from Feb. 11, 2019 and has a very early mention of Anubis: "Also Kryptos(X1) has Anubis? interesting". *Looked into this more and Kryptos(X1) likely refers to the OG Xbox One SoC codename.
---

Komachi and TechPowerUp database editor mentioning Anubis back on Jan. 23, 2019
---

Jan. 18, 2019 mention of Anubis as MS semi-custom.

Older Anubis benchmark for 2GB VRAM SoC. In previous tweet Komachi stated perhaps Anubis in this context is "Anubis+" which could have been the rumored Lockhart.
---

Older Anubis mention from Jan. 2017 involving the same users. This links to the German site Planet3dnow! forum...


This is probably what Brad Sams was referring to in his vid when he says it was some old MS project. Regardless, this is the oldest mention of Anubis I can find involving this group of users. It would seem, and this is stretching, that the Anubis codename, if it was tied to a MS console, would have been the Lockhart.

The Anubis pastebin I posted above was from July 18, 2019, so they had plenty of time to bite on all these codenames with a mix bullshit.
---
Hmqgg mentions Arden and Argalus. I need to find the earliest mention of Argalus.


^Suggestion that Argalus could be Lockhart.
 
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TeamGhobad

Member
Oct 15, 2018
2,669
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470
384bit is Xbox. 7tflop machine.....reallly phil!?

seems rumors of soc being occupied with fp64 is true. imagine the shitbox that was lockhart if this is the anaconda. im done honestly.
 

henau212

Neo Member
May 30, 2019
11
4
90
CurryPanda CurryPanda

I'm having a hard time understanding who the people talking on the chinese PC site are. Looks like they're saying Anubis and Arden were Xbox, and now Anubis is gone and Arden is the only chip moving forward. Having a hard time remembering these rumors. I think Anubis was...https://pastebin.com/y8qXme7b

This new rumor says 350mm² Arden remains, and Oberon(Gonzalo, Flute, etc?) is 300mm². What's Sparkman supposed to be? Somebody seemed to hint at Nintendo, but they're with Nvidia atm.
Maybe sparkman is the 2nd generation surface processor, which is already confirmed to be in development.
 
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Ar¢tos

Formerly 'ColdToffee'
Oct 24, 2017
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There will be loading.
There is always loading. But SSD can shorten those times a lot and the loading can be hidden in many ways.
Last save (new game in case of no save existing) can be loaded in the background while studio/Middleware/main menu are being displayed. Fast travel areas can start loading as soon as a name is highlighted before the player confirms the destination, next level can start loading when a player reaches a certain area of the end of the previous level, etc. Open world games will benefit more from the tech, we will have areas with much bigger scope.
 
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Kenpachii

Member
Mar 23, 2018
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There is always loading. But SSD can shorten those times a lot and the loading can be hidden in many ways.
Last save (new game in case of no save existing) can be loaded in the background while studio/Middleware/main menu are being displayed. Fast travel areas can start loading as soon as a name is highlighted before the player confirms the destination, next level can start loading when a player reaches a certain area of the end of the previous level, etc. Open world games will benefit more from the tech, we will have areas with much bigger scope.
They can remove loading already today if they cared for it. They don't. Next gen isn't going to change anything about this.

Also loading isn't what prevents bigger open world area's, it's budgets and disc space.

Vanilla wow already had a huge world seemingless with 1000's of players running around without any loading, u could enter houses etc and that was build for.

800mhz cpu, 32mb video card, 4gb harddrive space, 256mb ram.

All the other stuff u mention can already and where already done in the PS3 area or even with god of war today.

With faster harddrives more shit will be loaded in and the same results will happen, unless they care for it.

The PS4 can basically already push out any game they want too without any issue's, sure maybe a bit reduced visuals but that will always be the case but there is no limitations anymore already in current gen. A bit faster this or that isn't going to change anything.

This also what makes next generation extremely lackbusting in my view.

edit

Also the reason why they are moving now into the SSD space is because they will have to push into it with 4k focus and eventually 8k, 5400rpm would simple not work for this. So again nothing changes.
 
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Mass Shift

Member
Jun 12, 2019
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CrustyBritches CrustyBritches

It certainly is possible that AMD has given both Sony and MS engineering samples with the same Shakespearean themed codes.

The thing is I kept looking for anything that might point to an Arcturus related sample. Because in all this talk about chiplets no one ever bothered to consider that these non 3D Arcturus engines could simply have the RDNA graphic cores embedded on them as it's geometric solution.

So far I haven't found anything to support that.
 
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Jul 29, 2013
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H henau212

It would be nice to know who the users on that chinese pc site were supposed to be. Now that I read back through, I think the Pastebin "Anubis" leak is bunk. If this chinese leak is anything more than speculation, I'm leaning towards Anubis being the cancelled Lockhart. Also, I'm wondering if this is an approximation and that 300mm² could be referring to the ~316mm² Reddit OQA PCB leak. Same with the 350mm² for Arden, which could be an approximation based on the Scarlett reveal render and B3D estimates.

M Mass Shift

Arden and even Argalus have ties to Shakespeare, so it's all very interesting. My best guess is still that Oberon's clock speeds and Sony's BC patents are connected. That Gonzalo "20k+" Fire Strike Score is probably the PS5, with 8c/16t Zen 2 1.6GHz base/3.2GHz boost, stripped L3 cache, and Navi 10 GPU with 40CUs(possibly 4 disabled for retail), and 16GB GDDR6. Just my two cents.

---
P.S.- I don't buy into this B3D "Fehu 7TF" rumor at all.
 
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R600

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Jun 17, 2019
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3-3.2GHZ Zen2 with 1/2 or 1/4 of L3 cache

1600-1800MHz Navi with 36-44 active CUs

16-20GB of RAM (18Gbps for PS5, 14Gbps for Scarlett)

256 bit bus on PS5, 320bit bus on Scarlett

RT hardware ~ 15-20% of CU space
 
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GermanZepp

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Feb 15, 2017
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They can remove loading already today if they cared for it. They don't. Next gen isn't going to change anything about this.
I don't know man, shure devs can hide loading times but, has i understand it they are "forced" to do stuff that maybe they don't want. Maybe put a cutscene, maybe an elevator, a long hallway with a boring walking section. What if those things are no longer necessary, that impacts directly in how devs craft games. I can't imagine the extent of this, don't believe it will be revolutionary, but maybe they can surprise us.
 
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Mass Shift

Member
Jun 12, 2019
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P.S.- I don't buy into this B3D "Fehu 7TF" rumor at all.
There are some very informative discussions over there, but they do have the tendency to lowball everything when it comes to speculations. They paint a more realistic picture and temper expectations when people get hardware fever. But they have been wrong almost as many times as they've been right on rumors and leaks.

Now they DO have an annoying habit of being right about hardware once they get all the real clocks and specifics. 😂

They called out Jaguar very very early as the weak sauce in both consoles before they even launched. It wasn't something gamers wanted to hear, but now we collectively recognize just how much Jaguar was an impedance to game developers efforts.

B3D serves a vital role, because when the specs are finally revealed and the deep dives begin I will be heading right over there for the technical breakdowns.