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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & Next Xbox |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Next Gen Consoles Power Level


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sonomamashine

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Jun 29, 2019
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Jeez, there's already enough of this nonsense out there without company execs spouting it.

I have a Ryzen 7 3700X in my PC. Based on what Greenberg is saying here I should have some sort of magic CPU with no limitations, but when I turn up settings my framerate goes down. Maybe I just don't have the secret sauce?
Oh boy 🤦‍♂️.
 
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xPikYx

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Jun 23, 2019
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Honestly what I care about is the impact of how the next gen graphic will look like, doesn't really matter how many flops the machines will calculate. At the moment the only example we have is that halo infinite trailer and that, I'm sorry, is not enough. I hope, especially Sony, they have much more to show next year
 

thelastword

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it is just a guess based on nvidia/intel being gougers and not offering price value. i just have faith that Cerny did the best he could.
I don't know what people expected...….Intel certainly didn't have a low power alternative to offer against jaguar......and how much would intel sell Sony a 2 core 4T cpu for a 2013 launch? Farless a 4 core CPU, which was what their i7's led with at the time...…..The power draw on that thing would be ridiculous...….Jaguar was the only option for consoles, and Sony was good enough to work with AMD so they could finally have low power high end CPU's for their next consoles.....According to JimQuisition….."Thank God for AMD".....

Funny enough the same people saying jaguar and PS4 was shit when it launched, want expensive console hardware in name, but will go on forums declaring how Sony is off their rockers with a $600 pricetag...……"$299" and they just may consider purchasing one......
.
Quoting myself from earlier in this thread. You can see how Richard is actually a massive MS shill, and that was even before MS money.



Fucking clown Lol.
This is POTY right there (Post of the Year)…….You probably missed a few choice quotes from the "most balanced console article" however...….Regardless, perhaps what would be most enlightening is if you get some quotes from when Project Scorpio debuted...….and how enthusiastic Rich was about the same 40% raw hardware
uplift, the same 40% higher resolutions etc......I'm not sure I've heard the term "pretty much like for like in visuals and rez" past circa November 2017...….

Quite evident when you read his interview with the MS Xbox One tech guys and when they invited them in for the Xbox One X deep dive. Former case “oh 40% more raw performance advantage does not matter because... hw customisations” and in the latter “HW customisations do not matter, when you have a >=40% raw performance advantage”... even Jaguar instead of being the same just clocked a bit higher than on the PS4 Pro it was a magically customised x86 core in the comparison specs sheet.

Richard routinely takes rumours from one side and finds the least positive angle possible and from the other side the most optimistic way to look at things... he is not the impartial one there.
Precisely...…..How about that DX12 hardware we heard would change the game and how "huge it was"....It was a big talking point just prior to Scorpios's launch in late 2017..

Calm down Richard.
Richard600?

The whole 8TF thing started as a joke/downplay from MS employee Albert Penello. DF run with it and this is why it’s still mentioned today.

Naturally they would...…...Yet, 8TF wont be anything as impressive next gen.....

I happen to think if PRO was released in 2017, it would be an 8TF GPU as Cerny specified for native 4k with last gen assets...….

Yes I remember Leadbetter being a big MS supporter back then.
Actually, Richard was a huge Sega Supporter......He worked on Sega Saturn Magazine and the Official Dreamcast Magazine...…....Most of the DC guys became XBOX fans because Sega had a huge partnership with OG XBOX, (all those Sega titles on XBOX).....remember Peter Moore and what happened there?...…So he just moved on from Sega to MS simply because he followed on to his deep-rooted origins........He followed Sega and it's games....

It might even be possible that Richard was in fact "Lazy 8's"..... 🤔
 

sonomamashine

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Honestly what I care about is the impact of how the next gen graphic will look like, doesn't really matter how many flops the machines will calculate. At the moment the only example we have is that halo infinite trailer and that, I'm sorry, is not enough. I hope, especially Sony, they have much more to show next year
Teraflops help you get an idea how games will look like so ... , Halo was bad because it was native 4k 60 fps (no RT of course), you will see better games at 1440p/1080p.
 

Sycomunkee

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Jan 21, 2019
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Naturally they would...…...Yet, 8TF wont be anything as impressive next gen.....
But 8TF this-gen vs 8TF next-gen are two completely different things, and I'm not sure why people still don't understand this. 8TF next-gen is more like 12TF on this-gen hardware.
 
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thelastword

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But 8TF this-gen vs 8TF next-gen are two completely different things, and I'm not sure why people still don't understand this. 8TF next-gen is more like 12TF on this-gen hardware.
I am talking about 8TF Polaris..............

They already had 64rops on PRO, it remained latent, because they did not have enough memory bandwidth and the clockspeed to push it.......They would have accomplished this with 1 more year with the same butterfly concept...…Parts would have been cheaper and they would have enough time to maybe tweak cooling etc...and push clocks......

In any case, that's water under the bridge.....We can all agree that keeping PRO at the $400 pricepoint was at the forefront of Sony's strategy, that is why they pushed CB and other rendering methods "like geometry rendering so much".......Not 4k, but a precursor to 4k for those who have UHD Tv's....I think it worked because PRO's sell almost as much as Slim PS4's at this point...closer to 50/50......
 
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thelastword

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I really doubt that. You can find a Slim for €250 these days. Not the case with the Pro.
https://www.vg247.com/2017/02/03/ps4-pro-sales-are-stronger-than-that-of-ps4-slim-says-sony-cfo/

The only thing that may affect that is a lack of availability of PRO vs Slim...….This is no way means that PRO has a bigger installbase, just that it has been selling consistently well since launch and being out of stock in many cases, places for a long time...



-----------
As for next gen.....I think PS5 will be based on a GPU much stronger than the 5700XT......I expect both CPU and GPU in PS5 to be based on 7nm EUV.....For reference 5700XT is about 10TF give or take......
 

rəddəM

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Feb 8, 2018
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Can't wait for 60fps ray traced single players to be the norm.
I want to see what next gen Naughty Dog looks like SOOOO BAAAD!
If I see a 30fps game next gen I'll do absolutely nothing because I'm adaptable and able to enjoy stable 30fps.
But 60fps is way more responsive and smooth.
 

Negotiator

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It's called the Pareto principle.
 
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thelastword

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It's called the Pareto principle.
I think things have evolved quite a bit from there wouldn't you say?
 

Negotiator

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Can't wait for 60fps ray traced single players to be the norm.
I want to see what next gen Naughty Dog looks like SOOOO BAAAD!
If I see a 30fps game next gen I'll do absolutely nothing because I'm adaptable and able to enjoy stable 30fps.
But 60fps is way more responsive and smooth.
I expect 30 fps with RT ON, unless it's something like 1080p60.

We also don't know how much they're willing to push the CPU in terms of next-gen world building.

If most next-gen AAA SP games run at 30 fps with Zen 2 @ 3.2 GHz, good luck having 60 fps (Zen 2 @ 6.4 GHz <-- only with LN2)... unless Intel or AMD double the IPC of future PC CPUs. Maybe Jim Keller will do his magic once again, we'll see.
 

Lort

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Just a couple features from it (not full spec), but full 2.1 includes VRR, up to 10K, 8K/60, 4K/120, ALLM, etc..

XB1X is 18gbs 2.0, which allows for VRR and ALLM to be added, and not having to get “recertified”, so they can technically call it 2.1, but it’s still 2.0.
its getting certified if its not already according to MS it was going to be the first certified device.

You dont have yo implement everything to be certified.
 

Physiognomonics

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Sep 18, 2019
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I am talking about 8TF Polaris..............

They already had 64rops on PRO, it remained latent, because they did not have enough memory bandwidth and the clockspeed to push it.......They would have accomplished this with 1 more year with the same butterfly concept...…Parts would have been cheaper and they would have enough time to maybe tweak cooling etc...and push clocks......

In any case, that's water under the bridge.....We can all agree that keeping PRO at the $400 pricepoint was at the forefront of Sony's strategy, that is why they pushed CB and other rendering methods "like geometry rendering so much".......Not 4k, but a precursor to 4k for those who have UHD Tv's....I think it worked because PRO's sell almost as much as Slim PS4's at this point...closer to 50/50......
That's not actually true. Where did you read that ?
 

thelastword

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That's not actually true. Where did you read that ?
The Playstation 4 Pro GPU is a high-end graphics card by AMD, launched in November 2016. Built on the 16 nm process, and based on the Neo graphics processor, in its CXD90044GB variant, the card does not support DirectX. The Neo graphics processor is a large chip with a die area of 325 mm² and 5,700 million transistors. It features 2304 shading units, 144 texture mapping units and 64 ROPs. AMD has placed 8,192 MB GDDR5 memory on the card, which are connected using a 256-bit memory interface. The GPU is operating at a frequency of 911 MHz, memory is running at 1700 MHz. Being a igp card, the AMD Playstation 4 Pro GPU does not require any additional power connector, its power draw is rated at 150 W maximum. This device has no display connectivity, as it is not designed to have monitors connected to it. Its price at launch was 399 US Dollars.

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/playstation-4-pro-gpu.c2876





XBONEX vs PRO APU render......
 
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Darklor01

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I'm still amazed that nothing has leaked about Scarlett.
Cuz frankly Scarlett, I don’t give a damn! Ok, horrible pun. Honestly, seems more usually leak about PlayStations than XBOXes to my recollection. That said, my recollection has also been known to be dead wrong.
 

bhunachicken

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Apr 11, 2018
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I'd actually be staggered if devs release games for next gen machines that run at 30fps in 1080p. I could only imagine them doing that if the extra 16ms was being spent on high quality raytracing.

Then again, as I'm quite fond of saying, devs like EA and Ubisoft will likely shove out everything at 30fps (with dips) just to add more bling.
 

Physiognomonics

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Sep 18, 2019
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The Playstation 4 Pro GPU is a high-end graphics card by AMD, launched in November 2016. Built on the 16 nm process, and based on the Neo graphics processor, in its CXD90044GB variant, the card does not support DirectX. The Neo graphics processor is a large chip with a die area of 325 mm² and 5,700 million transistors. It features 2304 shading units, 144 texture mapping units and 64 ROPs. AMD has placed 8,192 MB GDDR5 memory on the card, which are connected using a 256-bit memory interface. The GPU is operating at a frequency of 911 MHz, memory is running at 1700 MHz. Being a igp card, the AMD Playstation 4 Pro GPU does not require any additional power connector, its power draw is rated at 150 W maximum. This device has no display connectivity, as it is not designed to have monitors connected to it. Its price at launch was 399 US Dollars.

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/playstation-4-pro-gpu.c2876





XBONEX vs PRO APU render......
I know all of that. Sorry my bad. I should have bolded only the right part:

it remained latent
Who told you this ? Do you trust the source of that claim ?
 

Sosokrates

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Feb 22, 2017
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It's very much possible too that developers were so confident in saying the PS5 is more powerful because even Scarlett GPU/CPU upclocks wouldn't make up the difference

Just speculation though
klee said its like og X1 vs X1S.
If clock speeds were not possible in changing the power disparity then PS5 must have a lot more cu's or the same cu's and a much higher clock which is unlikely given the rumours about the size of the PS5 SoC.

It would also be a different strategy compared to there last 2 consoles for Sony to go with such high clocks.
 
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thelastword

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Who told you this ? Do you trust the source of that claim ?
Nobody told me this, there's no way these rops are being fully utilized...….You need bandwidth to push it...I'm saying with an extra year in development, Sony would have been able to increase clocks and memory bandwidth to push those rops…..
 

Sosokrates

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Feb 22, 2017
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CU count + clock speeds

These two small pieces of info are all we need, it will answer a lot of questions.

I see one of two options.
Klee has said its like OG X1 vs X1S level of difference, which is about 6.5%

Scenario A
PS5 40 active cu's @ 1954mhz = 10tflops

Scarlett 40 active cu's @1827 mhz = 9.35tflops

Scenario B
PS5 40 active cu's @ 1954mhz = 10tflops

Scarlett 44 active cu's @1661 mhz = 9.35tflops


Scenario B is probably the better one for MS because they could reach ps5 tflops at much lower clockspeeds and could potentially beat ps5 if they have enough leeway.


However I just rememberd I think klee said both system have tflop numbers in the double digits, which would mean more cu's for PS5.

Arhhhh, who knows, at this point speculation is pretty worthless.
 
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Sycomunkee

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CU count + clock speeds

These two small pieces of info are all we need, it will answer a lot of questions.

I see one of two options.
Klee has said its like OG X1 vs X1S level of difference, which is about 15%

Scenario A
PS5 40 active cu's @ 1954mhz = 10tflops

Scarlett 40 active cu's @ 1662mhz = 8.5tflops

Scenario B
PS5 40 active cu's @ 1954mhz = 10tflops

Scarlett 44 active cu's @ 1510mhz = 8.5tflops


Scenario B is probably the better one for MS because they could reach ps5 tflops at much lower clockspeeds and could potentially beat ps5 if they have enough leeway.
The Xbox One was 1.31 TFLOPS the Xbox One S was 1.4TFLOPS that to me looks more like a 6.5% difference at best. So we are looking more at 9.35TF vs 10TF but that's only if it's the exact same as the scenario he provided. It could be much different like 10 vs 9.75 even.
 

Sosokrates

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The Xbox One was 1.31 TFLOPS the Xbox One S was 1.4TFLOPS that to me looks more like a 6.5% difference at best. So we are looking more at 9.35TF vs 10TF but that's only if it's the exact same as the scenario he provided. It could be much different like 10 vs 9.75 even.
Corrected post.
 

Hobbygaming

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Sep 30, 2019
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klee said its like og X1 vs X1S.
If clock speeds were not possible in changing the power disparity then PS5 must have a lot more cu's or the same cu's and a much higher clock which is unlikely given the rumours about the size of the PS5 SoC.

It would also be a different strategy compared to there last 2 consoles for Sony to go with such high clocks.
If those rumors are correct and the PS5 will have less cores then it has to be the higher clocks that puts it over the Scarlett if they are that close in power
 

Paulxo87

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Oct 24, 2017
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10TFLOPS
16GB GDDR6
1TB SSD

$399

The above is reasonable for the price.

If they hit any higher than the above then $499
 
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Sosokrates

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10TFLOPS
16GB GDDR6
1TB SSD

$399

The above is reasonable for the price.

If they hit any higher than the above then $499
When we consider a 6tflop GCN, 8 core jaguar, 12gb gddr5, 1tb hdd was $499 in Nov 2017, I don't think $399 will be feasible at that spec, maybe at 8tflop.

I do think @ $499 we will be ge more ram then 16gb, my guess is around 20gb.
 

Sosokrates

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Anyone know (or have a good idea) what the GPU will be clocked at?

2Ghz?
There has been some rumours of 2ghz.
However consoles this gen have clocked lower then the base clock of there PC counter parts.
So around 1600mhz seems more realistic.
However ms + Sony seems to be aiming high for next gen, so maybe they will be more ambitious with there clocks this time.
 

Paulxo87

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When we consider a 6tflop GCN, 8 core jaguar, 12gb gddr5, 1tb hdd was $499 in Nov 2017, I don't think $399 will be feasible at that spec, maybe at 8tflop.

I do think @ $499 we will be ge more ram then 16gb, my guess is around 20gb.

It doesn't work this way. I don't think people realize how much they were ripped off with the PS4 PRO/1X comparatively speaking. These are entirely new and current architectures not boosted/overclocked old designs.
 
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Physiognomonics

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Nobody told me this, there's no way these rops are being fully utilized...….You need bandwidth to push it...I'm saying with an extra year in development, Sony would have been able to increase clocks and memory bandwidth to push those rops…..
They are at some point bottlenecked by the bandwidth, yes, but the performance is still much better than if it had only 32 ROPs (and better than PS4 GPU). Even with the limited bandwidth, Pro fillrate is actually higher than XBX fillrate (because the max theoretical fillrate performance possible on XBX is lower than actual tested max fillrate on Pro).

I am telling you this based on actual benchmarks. I think from memory it can reach about 80% or so of its max performance (32 ROPS being then 50% of 64 ROPs, but you need to take into consideration the higher clocked GPU on XBX).
 
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Kenpachii

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When we consider a 6tflop GCN, 8 core jaguar, 12gb gddr5, 1tb hdd was $499 in Nov 2017, I don't think $399 will be feasible at that spec, maybe at 8tflop.

I do think @ $499 we will be ge more ram then 16gb, my guess is around 20gb.
Pretty sure 580 RX was launched at 199 usd ( and that's with massive mark ups for consumers ), as its a cutdown version of it its probably even cheaper, 12gb of memory isn't special to say the least and 1tb hdd was probably about 25-50 bucks for them. that cpu is probably not costing them more then 10-15 bucks lets be honest here.

I see no reason why that box wasn't feasible at that time.

Then about the PS5

Cpu wise ryzens that are 8/16 are going next year in there 4th generation of those chips 1700/2700/3700/4700 so honestly i wouldn't be shocked if they just get the cheapest they can get away with from amd that's probably going to cost them 50 bucks at the end, as a 1700 already costs in consumer hands right now 130 which amd gets way cheaper obviously. Probably the same as PS4 bom.

Then about the GPU, the 7870 that got pushed into a mobile chip 7970 for PS4 launched at 350 bucks, the 5700 launched at 350 bucks and probably is going to be pushed into a mobile chip next year with some cuts or additions towards it to push it into the wattage of what they want or where they can get it.

There big costs will be SSD and memory. that can break there bank but also something they have complete control over.
 
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Sosokrates

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Pretty sure 580 RX was launched at 199 usd ( and thats with massive mark ups for consumers ), as its a cutdown version of it its probably even cheaper, 12gb of memory isn't special to say the least and 1tb hdd was probably about 25-50 bucks for them. that cpu is probably not costing them more then 10-15 bucks lets be honest here.

I see no reason why that box wasn't feasable at that time.
So the 1x had a BOM of about $375?
Yes but the RX5700 xt is retailing at $499, even with the Mark up taken into account, its in a different price league to the 580, the 8 core zen2 will be more expensive then the jaguars.
 
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sonomamashine

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Lol 24Gb of Ram and 1$ per 1Gb :pie_roffles: aaaaaaaaaa, what tha hell is this, 24Gb is way much, i don't see that happening.
some fusion Drive (HDD + SSD combo)
between 16Gb - 20Gb of Ram
between 9Tf - 11Tf MAX (i'm being very generous right now)
 
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