Agnostic2020
Member
Thanks for reply . My issue is that Klee said xsx is around 12.08 or something like that and u say it’s around 11.6.
Where is the difference coming from ? Do you have any ideas ?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
- Status
Where is the difference coming from ? Do you have any ideas ?
Proelite
Member
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I don't think klee dropped any specific specs
Lort
Banned
If it was a real source it would be about CU, clock frequency and tech specs not exact TF numbers without any of that .. it’s not like you boot up the box and it says this box is 12.4 TF!!!
He is just making stuff up or playing the marketing game.
Agnostic2020
Member
He said bingo to 12.08 calculation . That’s how i remember
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I'll be honest I just want Sony to drop some serious megatons like they did at the 2013 PSM.
We had so many fake insiders claiming that MS had it in the bag, they were the power leader, all the devs were extremely excited about Durango but disappointed with what Sony had to show, etc...and then Sony showed up and dropped 8GB GDDR5 bombs. I am hoping we get another one of those moments when PS5 is revealed.
This time, there's no "eSRAM specual sauce" nonsense for the system warriors to cling to when their console is revealed to be weaker.
We had so many fake insiders claiming that MS had it in the bag, they were the power leader, all the devs were extremely excited about Durango but disappointed with what Sony had to show, etc...and then Sony showed up and dropped 8GB GDDR5 bombs. I am hoping we get another one of those moments when PS5 is revealed.
This time, there's no "eSRAM specual sauce" nonsense for the system warriors to cling to when their console is revealed to be weaker.
CuriousToe
Member
Hmm. He did say bingo, but he has also been careful to not talk specifics. I took that as confirmation of the CUs (56?) and the ballpark tflops. But who knows?
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Interesting, must have missed that. The only thing he's said about PS5 is that it's greater than 10TF, correct?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
ha. welcome to the thunderdome. though ive been posting here since june of last year.ha. Didn’t know if anyone still remembered me.
Saw thatSlimySnake got banned at the other place for two weeks and was posting here...so I returned
i looked at his ps4 pro leak. it looks pretty good. somethings are clearly wrong but plans change. just look at the lockhart cancellation and revival.
im not a big fan of his riddles, but his numbers line up with what others are saying. it could just mean that hes simply borrowing from those people, but his impressions of the order (or was it resistance?) are very detailed so we will soon find out if he did indeed see it.
ive been saying this for a while. there is simply no way both consoles arent using the same gpu. they will be using a 5800xt with some disabled cores. even if for some reason sony doesnt go with the big navi, we know one 5500 shader engine can have 24 cus so even if thats the max (Which we dont know if it is), the navi 10 should be able to house at least 48 cus. clock those at 1.9 ghz and you have yourself a rtx 2080.
MS is going with a 400mm2 apu. its a massive apu but not really that big compared to the 385 mm2 xbox one apu. and definitely smaller than the discrete cell cpu and rsx in the ps3. if both consoles are launching at $499 for a loss. we should be expecting bigger apus than the $399 ps4 gpu. i think will try to get cute by cutting down the cache but a 350mm2 apu should be able to house 56 cus with 4 disabled.
i just dont see either console maker giving the other an advantage that large.
devilNprada
Member
Nobody is making you believe anything. It's a speculation thread so why talk shit?
James Sawyer Ford
Member
He claimed that PS4 Pro would have a new CPU...that was hugely wrong.
Everyone was more focused on an upgraded CPU at the time rather than a better GPU.
Everyone was more focused on an upgraded CPU at the time rather than a better GPU.
Agnostic2020
Member
That’s true . Only issue I have with Sony going with 36 cu is that Sony could have launched in 2019 if they wanted to go with 5700 variant .
For example ps4 pro was Polaris that came out in summer 2016 for AMD and Sony used that for November 2016 and added few extra features from Vega of 2017.
So 5700 variant has been out since summer 2019. Sony could have launched it with some raytracing added from 2020 of amd and launched November 2019 (just like what they did with pro). And maybe at some point that was the plan ?
Amd big Navi gpus (56 cu and up)will be out summer 2020 so I don’t know why Sony would launch their console in November 2020 with a year an half old gpu instead of few months old big Navi gpu.especially with cerny saying after my talk with devs they asked for a beefy gpu .
That’s just my hunch Ofcourse
Last edited:
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
We know it was considered. Perhaps his info. was old or just a source being optimistic. Or even just a misconception seeing "custom 8 core CPU" and presuming it wasn't a jaguar.... many made that mistake with the XB1X too.
David Ricardo
Member
Somebody said 12.083 teraflops for the series X and Klee answered bingo. The guy that guessed the teraflops number also said numbers of CUs and frequency but I don't remember those because everybody took klees answer as confirming just the teraflops result, not the cus and frequency.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Yes, a 36 CU part makes absolutely NO SENSE. That's why the GitHub leak doesn't tell the whole story, and it's simply a red herring. I agree with
SlimySnake
that we are getting at a bare minimum a 48CU chip.
David Ricardo
Member
And slightly more powerful in flops. He said single digits, so less than 10% more powerful. Going by his comments PS5 would be between 12.1 and 13.3 teraflops.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I'm starting to think that we are getting a 13 TF PS5...
Benjisales tweet wasn't a mistake (he even admitted it was a true number, it was just so crazy he didnt believe it). It was real info, probably the same number that Reiner didn't want to publicly announce.
Only way I see them getting there is with HBM, so I think that rumor may be true especially since Sony tends to not do things by the book when it comes to memory.
JLB
Banned
xbox 720 tells you something?
SenjutsuSage
Banned
This user has been temporarily removed from thread. Please stop with the nose tapping. Share your opinions not unsubstantiated 'facts' or get 'vetted'.
Because I am certain I already know what's more powerful. But that's for me to know, and for others to find out when things are made official.
Agnostic2020
Member
Yea that GitHub is legit but maybe that’s the dev kit they are using for the time being ? They wanted to send a dev kit in navi architecture (only Navi available was/is 36 cu last year and even now)and they clocked it as high as the could for the dev kit so devs get the games up and running on ps5 and get familiar with ssd and the tools .i highly doubt a retail console would be clocked 2ghz .Yes, a 36 CU part makes absolutely NO SENSE. That's why the GitHub leak doesn't tell the whole story, and it's simply a red herring. I agree with
Ms had no Navi dev kits with developers and hence we were hearing from Jason that devs were not happy with MS and dev kit communication as MS waited to send the big Navi apu dev kit that just went out few weeks back.
Agnostic2020
Member
Yea we all found out x1x has zen cpu like you were telling all of us in 2016 and 2017 .
Last edited:
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Klee actually said single digit difference in flops in absolute terms. A double-digit percentage difference is possible and likely.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Alright, we will see.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
post the receipts
you have a history of not knowing anything. You said Durango was more powerful too
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
their latest moves have bummed me out. i wont lie. godfall, logo reveal, launching pc ports and cancelling e3 has all but deflated my excitement for next gen.
tbh i couldnt care less who comes out on top as long as both are in the 12tflops range or above. i do think sony is planning something absolutely crazy. the cpu and ssd combined with a powerful gpu will give us a jump we havent seen since the ps1 to ps2 era. i think they will have an even better ps meeting than they did in 2013. horizon 2, gt7, bluepoint's new game, the order sequel, spiderman 2 and a gow teaser should all be there.
add in some third party games like re8, sf6, gta6, and rocksteady's superman game and we might have the best conference of all time. my hope is that they are taking their time because they have so many different games to show, they want everything to be ready.
i love how no one wants to believe the hellblade trailer graphics are possible even though i called it when i first saw the unreal engine rebirth demo. we might be getting photorealistic environments next gen and near cg quality character models. but im dying to see what they can do with destruction and large scale battles.
CuriousToe
Member
Seriously? Why is that there are SO many claimed Xbox insiders. TimDog, Senjetsu, Klobrille, Colbert, Jez, Sams...
Could it be that 75% of the information is largely made up or spun together without concrete information, and then you all bounce off each other. "I heard this" "I know this", but realistically most of you know nothing?
Either way, your track record is awful.
Agnostic2020
Member
In fact he has a history of always pushing the wrong narrative from Durango to zen in x1x
Tarkus98
Member
If you are so certain why not just post the numbers for each console? What’s the harm if you are positive?
Apologies if you already posted these but this thread is so large I definitely could have missed it.
David Ricardo
Member
I don't get how to concile Raytracing being almost absent from one of the consoles (1080ti doesn't have rt), teraflops number really close and both consoles games being almost indistinguisable.
If one of them has ray tracing and the other doesn't, that must show in games.
Also, both companies said they had hardware raytracing. So, one is lying?
I don't get that part.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Sony are not doing E3, this somewhat discredits Tommy Fisher.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Yea we all found out x1x has zen cpu like you were telling all of us .
Nope, you got that wrong. That was me hoping and speculating, even though I knew it was very unlikely for a mid-gen refresh based on talking to someone at xbox fanfest that didn't immediately shoot down the idea which made me suspect it was a strong possibility. But perhaps the idea wasn't shot down because they already knew they were hard at work on the next thing after.
So yea, go die on that hill if you want. That was just me being excited and hoping for an unrealistic option against the more likely scenario of them sticking with jaguar. Even then what i was going off of then (speaking to actual people involved in designing xbox one x) was far more than what many of you here are choosing to go off of by believing what Klee and some others have said over a very credible looking leak right out of AMD with major employees specifically signing off on designs listed as full or complete or whatever term was used.
demigod
Member
You were dead set on one x having zen, how did that turn out
.Damnit beaten by Agnostic.
Last edited:
Agnostic2020
Member
Or it was a typo and he meant 2080?
David Ricardo
Member
A single digit teraflop difference is 1-9 teraflops. That wouldn't be information if he was talking in absolute numbers. It must be percentage.
Proelite
Member
Agnostic2020
Member
Oberon has had stepping till E . The GitHub is Oberon B . Please shows us what changed in Oberon C D and E. U can’t ? Cause u don’t know ? Thanks that’s what I thought . Stop being so certain on things you wish to happen . Ofcourse 50 50 chance but still.
Also how did ur info about Durango being more powerful turn out ?come on man
Last edited:
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yeah, if both are nearly identical in tflops and they are both using the same rdna gpu then they should have the same ray tracing performance.
it makes no sense.
its possible that ms devkits being late has something to do with it. sony devkits went out in april. ms devkits went out in november. its possible sony's tools are more mature.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Good question cause nothing was "slapped" onto 1080Ti. They are literally just emulating what hardware accelerated ray tracing does faster on the RTX chips. There is no slapping on occurring. And considering that the "slapped on" is being used, last I checked, to refer to the Xbox Series X's implimentation, that should immediately call into question the knowledge of the individual who passed along such information, seeing as how Microsoft and AMD both have sounded pretty damn definitive enough that there's no way Series X's Ray Tracing solution is just an emulated one using compute shaders.
CuriousToe
Member
Might be a typo? Either way, would be good to get some clarification.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
yeah as a Sony fan it’s been a frustrating two years. Layden takes over and we get a hipster hippie version of E3 in 2018 with flute guy and literally zero major reveals.
then they decide to not show up at all in 2019 and we get some lame state of plays.
it’s honestly felt like being a Microsoft fan for the first time in a long while. Just not a whole lot to get excited for.
My hope is that they have held everything back for an enormous blowout at PSM 2020 for PS5. Sony knows that first impressions are a huge deal with console reveals. They can’t screw it up.
Last edited:
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
If they have 56 active CUs, 12.083 doesn't add up. That's an odd clock (literally between 1685MHz and 1686MHz), and an odd frequency to set the GPU clock to. If you look at the clocks (base, gaming, boost) for AMD's GPUs, they're usually adjusted in whole values, not decimal or fractional values. So it'd be either 1685MHz or 1686MHz, not something in-between.
I also still question if the clock would be that low if Sony could somehow hit 2GHz or at least 1.9GHz with their clock. Again I know that would be easier with a smaller GPU, but that's potentially almost a 300-350MHz split,. Also I just checked and the 5700 has a boost clock of 1725MHz; it doesn't seem unreasonable the XSX can't hit that as its GPU clock with its form factor and cooling solution, at the least.
Memory type has nothing to do with GPU compute performance. These things could be using DDR3 for all we care; the GPU performance would be the same as ever in terms of TFs and other features, they'd just be extremely bandwidth and speed-starved to feed any sufficient amount of data to them.
Last edited:
44alltheway
Member
By this point last generation, were people aware of which console would be more powerful?
Proelite
Member
Even 2080TI would be puzzling, considering that much of the RT is done by tensor cores on Nvidia GPUs, and AMD is going with a hybrid BVH solution.
David Ricardo
Member
Numbers were 64CUs and 1475 Mhz but I insist, everybody took klees comment as just confirming the teraflops number, not the cus and frequency.
Last edited:
Agnostic2020
Member
Xbox Durango (x1)was believed to be more powerful till specs were hacked (from manufacturers )and leaked by vgleaks.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
My track record is a hell of a lot better than some people who say they are insiders here wheras I don't claim anything of the sort. Remember when multiple "insiders" collectively gathered to say the xbox one GPU was getting a downclock? Well, you can go right back and have a look at that very thread to see who was confidently stating the opposite and willing to verify what I could with a mod, particularly on there being yield issues with xbox one. I ended up right, they were all wrong, including the great cboat. But, yea, we can just ignore that.
Agnostic2020
Member
A dev can say the raytracing in this dev kit is similar to what 2080 does as a comparison point and not as how it’s being done .
Last edited:
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
And where did 64CUs suddenly come from? Is this the dual GPU rumor (72CUs, 36CUs each 4 CUs disabled each)?
People do realize that's gonna price the system well north of $500, right? Assuming it's even true (otherwise Sony would likely be looking at $200 loss per system if not more).
CuriousToe
Member
Broken clock etc.
- Status