• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Status
Not open for further replies.

pawel86ck

Banned
Jan 27, 2018
2,122
3,224
430
There's thing that's been bothering me since Cerny talk and i haven't seen it been brough up here. He mentioned the ability to load only what's being shown direcly to the player. Could this mean that XSX will need to expand this loading cone to compensate its slower storage bandwidth?
PS5 SSD is at least 2x faster (and probably more if we take into account better I/O architecture), so theoretically developers on PS5 can build such game that will require assets quality reduction (for exmaple 4K textures instead of 8K or lower level of detail) on XSX because of slower streaming speed.

But can we really expect developers will use CGI like assets everywhere in their games, when PS5 SSD only has 800 GB storage space? UE5 tech demo was really short and people suggest it was probably over 100 GB. I think developers on PS5 will be forced to limit assets quality anyway on PS5 and probably to the point even XSX SSD will be more than enough.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: ErRor88
May 1, 2020
535
3,504
435
This kind of moving around of developers is way more common than people seem to think it is. Especially in moving to startups. Follow enough developers on Twitter and every week someone is saying an emotional goodbye to a studio, saying how wonderful it was and the people were, but how they're excited for the new challenge ahead etc.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Feb 5, 2013
11,280
31,309
1,260
List of developers recently “poached” by Microsoft Studios



A wise man once said - “ If you can’t beat them buy them”.
343 industries also poached the brightest minds in the gaming industry and look at how mediocre their output has been.

You have to cultivate the culture and that takes time.
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
49,171
104,511
1,430
This kind of moving around of developers is way more common than people seem to think it is. Especially in moving to startups. Follow enough developers on Twitter and every week someone is saying an emotional goodbye to a studio, saying how wonderful it was and the people were, but how they're excited for the new challenge ahead etc.

Yes, but now we have posse curated score cards, bruh!
 

Msamy

Neo Member
Nov 16, 2019
47
136
250
Yeah thts what it is no confidence smh we are back to this frivolous narrative. My God some of you never stop.

Your post screams pseudo post and more Microsoft advertising BTW. You don't fool us 👀👀
No I am a huge Sony fan but what they doing right now make me thinking like that , this not a mobile phone to reveal lt one month before release, this is new game console and need big advertising events , and games showcases, Sony seem like the Don't have plans , in the other hand Microsoft show many things and have confiirming dates for Xsex games showcases unlike Sony , and please don't tell me Sony wait until Corona pandemic
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
49,171
104,511
1,430
No I am a huge Sony fan but what they doing right now make me thinking like that , this not a mobile phone to reveal lt one month before release, this is new game console and need big advertising events , and games showcases, Sony seem like the Don't have plans , in the other hand Microsoft show many things and have confiirming dates for Xsex games showcases unlike Sony , and please don't tell me Sony wait until Corona pandemic

No, Sony wanted to get their TLoU2 / GoT marketing and gameplay dives out of the way, plus COVID shook things up from what they had planned. The PS4 and its software are still selling exceptionally well.

If you think a company like Sony doesn't have plans and backup plans, or able to adapt and shift on the fly, then that would be a grossly naive "concern" stance to take. All of this will be forgotten once they show what they need to show.
 
Last edited:
May 1, 2020
535
3,504
435
You have to cultivate the culture and that takes time.

Historically this is something Sony has been good at, and it's how they ended up dominating a market once owned by Nintendo and Sega. Behind the scenes Sony is still suits and haircuts, but they put trust in people like Shu and Cerny, and their first-party studios. Even the smaller ones. Cerny himself being the reason Sonic wasn't a flash in the pan, and the reason Naughty Dog and Insomniac games have the culture they do. Studios still tied to Sony after all this time and working well.

Conversely Microsoft seems to me a bit more "suit and haircut", being lead by managers that have been promoted up the chain, historically wanting to see instant results, and being very aggressive in scaling things back when they think they've achieved enough, and taking not just their talent for granted, but even their customers with the Xbox One launch.
They came in strong with the original Xbox and snapping up Bungie. They came in even stronger with 360, but then seemed to drop the ball a bit.
I wish Xbox could snag someone like Carmack and put him in charge of pretty much everything outside of the day to day running and finances etc, and really invest and dig deep for a few years setting foundations that will end up with them having studios and giants wanting to stick with them.

All my own perceptions and bullshit opinions, but said as someone that loved his original Xbox more than the PS2, and the 360 more than the PS3 (until the last few years).
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
Jun 11, 2018
5,805
15,306
655
I love how fanatics literally keep an Excel scorecard on this shit. :pie_roffles:

Funny shit is once a game is over most devs in companies move along to other jobs and aren't kept. You could literally make a chart like this of all devs positions for every major company and it will have talent coming in from other notable companies prior. They all have ppl tht came from elsewhere so I'm not sure what this chart is for lol 😂 😂 😂
 

Msamy

Neo Member
Nov 16, 2019
47
136
250
No, Sony wanted to get their TLoU2 / GoT marketing and gameplay dives out of the way, plus COVID shook things up from what they had planned.

If you think a company like Sony doesn't have plans and backup plans, or able to adapt and shift on the fly, then that would be a grossly naive "concern" stance to take. All of this will be forgotten once they show what they need to show.
Hopefully you are right I am waiting
 

jose4gg

Member
May 7, 2020
749
5,023
525
PS5 SSD is at least 2x faster (and probably more if we take into account better I/O architecture), so theoretically developers on PS5 can build such game that will require assets quality reduction (for exmaple 4K textures instead of 8K or lower level of detail) on XSX because of slower streaming speed.

But can we really expect developers will use CGI like assets everywhere in their games, when PS5 SSD only has 800 GB storage space? UE5 tech demo was really short and people suggest it was probably over 100 GB. I think developers on PS5 will be forced to limit assets quality anyway on PS5 and probably to the point even XSX SSD will be more than enough.


- Do you think COD Warzone developers actually care that the game occupies 165 GB basically 33% of the PS4 default HDD size? Do you actually believe this developers are worried about the actual space left for users to store other games? 🤦🏽‍♂️ These people...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Sinthor

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
49,171
104,511
1,430
Funny shit is once a game is over most devs in companies move along to other jobs and aren't kept. You could literally make a chart like this of all devs positions for every major company and it will have talent coming in from other notable companies prior. They all have ppl tht came from elsewhere so I'm not sure what this chart is for lol 😂 😂 😂

It's for all of those hyped up cinematic third person walking sim movie games, bro! :pie_smirking:
 
T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
Historically this is something Sony has been good at, and it's how they ended up dominating a market once owned by Nintendo and Sega. Behind the scenes Sony is still suits and haircuts, but they put trust in people like Shu and Cerny, and their first-party studios. Even the smaller ones. Cerny himself being the reason Sonic wasn't a flash in the pan, and the reason Naughty Dog and Insomniac games have the culture they do. Studios still tied to Sony after all this time and working well.

Conversely Microsoft seems to me a bit more "suit and haircut", being lead by managers that have been promoted up the chain, historically wanting to see instant results, and being very aggressive in scaling things back when they think they've achieved enough, and taking not just their talent for granted, but even their customers with the Xbox One launch.
They came in strong with the original Xbox and snapping up Bungie. They came in even stronger with 360, but then seemed to drop the ball a bit.
I wish Xbox could snag someone like Carmack and put him in charge of pretty much everything outside of the day to day running and finances etc, and really invest and dig deep for a few years setting foundations that will end up with them having studios and giants wanting to stick with them.

All my own perceptions and bullshit opinions, but said as someone that loved his original Xbox more than the PS2, and the 360 more than the PS3 (until the last few years).
Could you please elaborate on Sonic and Cerny?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem
May 1, 2020
535
3,504
435
Could you please elaborate on Sonic and Cerny?

Oh which bit in particular? Cerny's history with Sega and with not just Sony but the people trusted with PlayStation is pretty much summed up on Wikipedia. The last few figureheads of Xbox seem to be promoted Microsoft managers that came from areas unrelated and will probably head off to something entirely different 5 years from now and look forward to that challenge. I can't see the likes of Cerny or Shu ever doing that.
But this is all my personal perception and half-heard stories I've picked up over the years, I'm not a historian.
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
Jun 11, 2018
5,805
15,306
655
Oh which bit in particular? Cerny's history with Sega and with not just Sony but the people trusted with PlayStation is pretty much summed up on Wikipedia. The last few figureheads of Xbox seem to be promoted Microsoft managers that came from areas unrelated and will probably head off to something entirely different 5 years from now and look forward to that challenge. I can't see the likes of Cerny or Shu ever doing that.
But this is all my personal perception and half-heard stories I've picked up over the years, I'm not a historian.

Loved the "I'm not a historian" part 🔥😂
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

aclar00

Member
Apr 7, 2020
325
432
295
a
Exactly. That's why I said it's Sony shooting themselves in the feet: BC it's one of the key features that they should advertise just as much as everything else as a part of their transition plan. They have to lure the 100M PS4 users (most of them casuals) to become 100M PS5 users. The core base will get the PS5 anyway (which are something like 30-40M or so), but I wouldn't be so sure about the rest.

Im all for backward compatibility, but i dont thinks its as big as people make it out to be. Its great for people like mean who have a backlog of games and/or revisit old fravorites (i brought about 12 PS1 games for PS3), but i doubt your avg Joe cares too much.

No stats here, but BC is probably most relevant during the first 6 months of a console's life when new games are sparse. You can have a few things to hold you over. Problem is that many casuals (some hardcore alike) sell off their old systems and games in preparation for the new one. You also have the casual games that, while practically ports, stills attract people to purchase them on the newer system. E.g. Madden, NBA 2k, Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc....

You also have those who hold off buying the new systems until more games are readily available...effectively allowing them to get through some of their backlog or play the cross gen games. Dont think BC will be as important to them because theyre waiting on the new games.

With all that said, i still enjoy BC and would love to see PS5 go all the way back to PS1 one, but outside of childhood nostalgia, i doubt it will get used very much relative to the requests and expectations for it.

Think Sony downplayed it on PS4 too by sighting actuallbusage on PS3....ill have to find it.
 
Last edited:

pawel86ck

Banned
Jan 27, 2018
2,122
3,224
430
- Do you think COD Warzone developers actually care that the game occupies 165 GB basically 33% of the PS4 default HDD size? Do you actually believe this developers are worried about the actual space left for users to store other games? 🤦🏽‍♂️ These people...
I expect many next gen games will be around 200 GB, but game with CGI assents quality (something like in UE5 tech demo) wouldn't even fit on 1 TB. Developers will be forced to make compromises and not just because of small SSD, but also because very few people will be able to download their game (not everyone has ultra fast internet connection).
 
Last edited:
Mar 17, 2020
615
2,086
430
I expect many next gen games will be around 200 GB, but full game with CGI assents quality (something like in UE5 tech demo) wouldn't even fit on 1 TB. Developers will be forced to make compromises and not just because of small SSD, but also because very pew people will be able to play their game (not everyone has ultra fast internet connection).

Does PSN finally support IPV6? I've got DSLite ( means i share a iv4 adress with other people) with 1gbit. I wanna take full advantage of it with my PS5.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Feb 5, 2013
11,280
31,309
1,260
No I am a huge Sony fan but what they doing right now make me thinking like that , this not a mobile phone to reveal lt one month before release, this is new game console and need big advertising events , and games showcases, Sony seem like the Don't have plans , in the other hand Microsoft show many things and have confiirming dates for Xsex games showcases unlike Sony , and please don't tell me Sony wait until Corona pandemic
i fucking hate what sony has done so far this year. jerking us around with the logo reveal, doing that god awful road to ps5 video, cancelling e3 and leaving all their plans in flux, but come june 3rd, it will be microsoft who despite all the talking and boasting who wouldve shown a total of zero next gen AAA games. hell, sony hasnt even shown a single game yet but the UE5 demo was running on a PS5 and it looked a generation ahead of anything MS has shown this year.

i am not going to make excuses for Sony's PR. it's been awful. But lets not pretend MS has shown what next gen can do this year. hellblade 2 was last year and just a teaser with no gameplay. what's bizarre is that they are the ones with no plans. they wont have a next gen showcase until july and have zero next gen exclusives at launch. just wtf were they doing for the last 7 years? did they not know a next gen console was launching in 2020? how did they not prepare for a next gen launch showing games? are some indie games from their global partners and one chinese guy really the best they can do? is what they were gonna bring at E3 when Phil went on twitter after sony cancelled their e3 conference and boasted about how they were gonna put on a great show at E3? some indie games? where the best looking game was a top down shooter?

the difference between sony and ms is that sony will have a bunch of next gen games at launch. or during the launch window. with MS, by their own admission, next gen games wont be out until late 2021 or 2022. the fact that they would be at least one month behind sony, probably more seeing as how they have yet to commit on a date, shows how behind they really are.

dont fall for PR. it might seem like sony has no plans, but as we know by now, they do have a plan for early june. they do have a plan for launch. they are just keeping it close to their chest because they dont like to go out there and just talk talk and talk like MS execs. dont get me wrong, it was great at first, but stfu already and show me the games. i dislike sony treating this like a top secret CIA assassination hit, and i have come to hate MS for talking to me like im a five year old who is going through a new generation for the first time. just show me the games already. and despite all the poor pr, sony seems to be going first and is definitely poised to have a much better launch lineup.
 

JerryinSoCal

Member
Apr 11, 2020
1,028
1,740
390
No I am a huge Sony fan but what they doing right now make me thinking like that , this not a mobile phone to reveal lt one month before release, this is new game console and need big advertising events , and games showcases, Sony seem like the Don't have plans , in the other hand Microsoft show many things and have confiirming dates for Xsex games showcases unlike Sony , and please don't tell me Sony wait until Corona pandemic

Microsoft can focus on the new console because that's all they have, they showed us the box last year, they talked about specs and were riding high and then when the day game to show games they fell flat on their faces. They don't have anything coming out until Halo so they have nothing else to talk about other than the Series X, even before now all they had was Ori 2 which is a beautiful game but they didn't really spend time or much money marketing it. Sony has two huge AAA games coming out very soon, yes the pandemic likely made things harder for their specific plans, they seem to want to have a more professional high end looking show than just having people on webcams talking from their homes and I don't blame them. We all want to see more but we also have to realize this thing isn't coming out for at least 5 months there is plenty of time for a reveal soon and then marketing to kick in more once Ghost of Tsushima has launched.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem and Msamy

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
40,573
41,529
1,310
39
Brazil
I expect many next gen games will be around 200 GB, but game with CGI assents quality (something like in UE5 tech demo) wouldn't even fit on 1 TB. Developers will be forced to make compromises and not just because of small SSD, but also because very few people will be able to download their game (not everyone has ultra fast internet connection).
About that...

The whole compression data (Kraken/BCPack) decrease the game data.
Plus there is no more duplicated data.

These two points already decrease the size of the game at over 50% compared with last gen.

Epic devs said the new tech Lunen and Nanite were created to ship games to consumers when asked about game size... so I don’t believe there will be any game over 100GB data this generation (the BD dual layer limit).
 
Last edited:

jose4gg

Member
May 7, 2020
749
5,023
525
I expect many next gen games will be around 200 GB, but game with CGI assents quality (something like in UE5 tech demo) wouldn't even fit on 1 TB if even short demo was massive. Developers will be forced to make compromises and not just because of small SSD, but also because very pew people will be able to play their game (not everyone has ultra fast internet connection).


The limit is 750 GB for a game, developers do not care about other games installed in your system, use an SSD and copy them, you won't be able to play it from another SSD but you will be able to store them there for a period of time.

And we are talking without considering compression, which is now possible due to the hardware decompression available, we are not considering all the duplicate assets that won't be necessary anymore.

The biggest game for PS4 is currently Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, with 175.2GB 35% of the HDD. so 35% of 825 IS 288.75, I would spec that to be the limit for games to use...

And again... The PS5 I/O is not there because game assets are bigger now (that is just a part) the PS5 I/O is there because YOU WANT TO STREAM the assets FAST ENOUGH To create new experiences, where you can have a map using the same assets of SpiderMan, but you can have a fight where the enemy take spiderman through the whole map, not being limited by loading screens or fake smoke, or just playing in one part of the map with cinematics...
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: Rusco Da Vino

saintjules

Member
Dec 20, 2019
4,071
13,277
560
I don't think Sony gonna show anything, I starting to feel that Sony don't have any confidence on there ps5 plans and that will affect ps5 sales dramatically, I am huge Sony fans but truly I start to untrust them , they need to show me why I need to buy ps5 , when in my insides I know that the other competitor console have more pure performance advantage and I try to sell myself those sdd bullshits, and even that Sony don't show me anything other than that ue5 Which not 4k neither 60 fps and no real time ray tracing, , and in the other hand Microsoft are pretty confident in there plans ,and on there console power and keep confirming true 4k , 60 fps , real time full ray trading , full backward compatibility even they show the real hardware design in last year ,

what do you mean sony has no confidence? how about you wait just a little bit longer and you'll see.

There's still a chance they say something tomorrow. I remember the last time they announced something big on a Friday...It was when they let Shawn Layden go :messenger_hushed:
 
Last edited:

bitbydeath

Member
Nov 25, 2015
15,150
26,058
1,200
Don’t think we saw a thread on this but a few days back GTAVI was rumoured to not be coming out for a long long while. (Read: years)

However Take-Two have now squashed that rumour.

Update May 27, 2020: A Take-Two representative told GamesIndustry.biz that the table in the 10-K reflects marketing commitments made to third-party companies. As Rockstar is an internal Take-Two studio, that undermines the notion that the reported marketing commitments would be related to the next Grand Theft Auto.

 
Last edited:

SlimySnake

Member
Feb 5, 2013
11,280
31,309
1,260
Historically this is something Sony has been good at, and it's how they ended up dominating a market once owned by Nintendo and Sega. Behind the scenes Sony is still suits and haircuts, but they put trust in people like Shu and Cerny, and their first-party studios. Even the smaller ones. Cerny himself being the reason Sonic wasn't a flash in the pan, and the reason Naughty Dog and Insomniac games have the culture they do. Studios still tied to Sony after all this time and working well.

Conversely Microsoft seems to me a bit more "suit and haircut", being lead by managers that have been promoted up the chain, historically wanting to see instant results, and being very aggressive in scaling things back when they think they've achieved enough, and taking not just their talent for granted, but even their customers with the Xbox One launch.
They came in strong with the original Xbox and snapping up Bungie. They came in even stronger with 360, but then seemed to drop the ball a bit.
I wish Xbox could snag someone like Carmack and put him in charge of pretty much everything outside of the day to day running and finances etc, and really invest and dig deep for a few years setting foundations that will end up with them having studios and giants wanting to stick with them.

All my own perceptions and bullshit opinions, but said as someone that loved his original Xbox more than the PS2, and the 360 more than the PS3 (until the last few years).
no, i get that impression too. you look at whats happening with halo infinite, a game announced two years ago, 5 years in development and we have yet to see a single snippet of gameplay. i can understand not wanting to show it if its a next gen only game until your next gen show but its not a next gen game. they have fired not one but two directors on the game. with god knows how many other lower level people leaving. When Sony fired Amy henning, they had neil druckmann and bruce straley ready to fill in. when they fired stig assmussen or cancelled his game and allowed him to leave, they had cory fucking barlog in the wing. i cant name one big name director over at 343. someone i can trust.

i remember jason rubin once said that he was basically hiring hollywood artists way back in the early 2000s even though they were only just working on jak. but they were well poised to make something like uncharted when the ps3 came around because they had the talent he had spent years cultivating. MS wants these studios to deliver a GOTY contender right away and that just doesnt happen. ND had to make crash and jak before they hit the big leagues with uncharted 2 and tlou. sucker punch had to make sly before they got to make infamous and now ghosts. who knows halo infinite could be a goty contender but that wouldve taken them 10 years since their inception.

and yeah way too many suits and managers, im shocked that they trott around guys like aaron greenberg, matt booty, yusuf mehdi instead of directors and game designers.
 

Corndog

Member
Apr 17, 2020
728
764
295
there's nothing official out there but there was someone who did a very nice render based on the leaked dev kit and the design of the controller, it looks the most realistic in my opinion. I already posted it yesterday and I don't want to post it again, I can DM you the link if you would like.
I’ve probably seen it. I would not be surprised if the retail ends up looking like the devkit.
About that...

The whole compression data (Kraken/BCPack) decrease the game data.
Plus there is no more duplicated data.

These two points already decrease the size of the game at over 50% compared with last gen.

Epic devs said the new tech Lunen and Nanite were created to ship games to consumers when asked about game size... so I don’t believe there will be any game over 100GB data this generation (the BD dual layer limit).
i would be willing to bet you there will be games over 100GB. How confident are you? $100 confident.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
40,573
41,529
1,310
39
Brazil
The limit is 750 GB for a game, developers do not care about other games installed in your system, use an SSD and copy them, you won't be able to play it from another SSD but you will be able to store them there for a period of time.

And we are talking without considering compression, which is now possible due to the hardware decompression available, we are not considering all the duplicate assets that won't be necessary anymore.

The biggest game for PS4 is currently Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, with 175.2GB 35% of the HDD. so 35% of 825 IS 288.75, I would spec that to be the limit for games to use...

And again... The PS5 I/O is not there because game assets are bigger now (that is just a part) the PS5 I/O is there because YOU WANT TO STREAM the assets FAST ENOUGH To create new experiences, where you can have a map using the same assets of SpiderMan, but you can have a fight where the enemy take spiderman through the whole map, not being limited by loading screens or fake smoke, or just playing in one part of the map with cinematics...
You are using the data after multiples DLC/expansions.
The game shipped way lower than that.

It was 61.78GB at launch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
40,573
41,529
1,310
39
Brazil
I’ve probably seen it. I would not be surprised if the retail ends up looking like the devkit.

i would be willing to bet you there will be games over 100GB. How confident are you? $100 confident.
I don’t do $$$ bets lol

No game will be shipped over 100GB... there is not even media for that.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.