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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Xplainin

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Apr 30, 2020
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Who cares, it's about performance. And so far we have the same target performances in multiplatform games, even the 120 FPS one in Dirt 2. And on top of that I get a real leap forward with the Dual sense and the SSD/IO, things that will affect my experience every time I boot it on.

You're too caught up in the fictional narrative. The real stuff happens once we see H2H, sales, feeback from the controllers etc

On that bit about controllers, it's the more subjective part sure but there are enough differences here. If Gyro aiming picks up, which its starting to seem like it will, that's going to be a marked difference.
I have said numerous times that the difference in power isn't really going to be obvious in the image on the screen, but we are talking about subtle differences in the architecture, and from my point of view, it's interesting to see the difference in approach and how that will effect one console against the other.
Basically nitpicking.
 

Setsuna Mudou

Member
May 29, 2020
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I ran furmark and a cpu burner at the same time for more than 30 minutes with 30+ degree ambient tempson an air cooled system to test new case fans and neither throttled.

But nice attempt at more complete bullshit.
Just for you


Look at the FPS at the start of the test, mid point and towards the end.

"Start: circa 75 fps Mid: circa 71fps End: circa 60 fps"

Good day sir

🎤 dropped
 
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Mar 27, 2020
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Uncharted bunghole
Sony invested heavily in the SSD and accompanying processing. Fast CUs were always going to be needed to compensate for lack of CU count, due to SSD silicone.


You make a pretty good point there. Sony could have gone with more CUs but they chose to sacrifice some CU space for the I/O complex. It's definitely a different philosophy from what Microsoft is doing.

Really curious to see if it will pay off for them.
 

roops67

Member
Apr 24, 2020
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It directs power between the CPU and GPU. How it works is on the PS5 reveal, it is what it is.
The XSX doesn't need Smartshift. Sony have only used it because they have thermal issues with running their APU at peaks loads.
As MS have said, the XSX will run at full speeds all day every day. It won't throttle.
You are really embarrassing yourself with your ignorance
 

Geruda065

Neo Member
Mar 14, 2018
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37
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Nah. Let's be real here.
For whatever reason Sony ended up with a 36 CU GPU. Be that because of back compat or they were looking at launching in 2019.
Because of this they found themselves with a console that was behind the XSX in power levels, and so we're only left with increasing clocks to close the power gap. That led to other issues they needed to solve such as thermal and power.

Nobody in their right mind thinks that Sony went in to this gen with the goal of using variable clocks from the outset.

I think Sony have done a good job to get to where they have.
My thoughts exactly. If Sony could get free pass card to rebuild new ps5 right now from scratch it would look nothing like it does.
 

Redlight

Member
Feb 5, 2014
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Nobody say PS5 to outperform XSX.
Really? The following quotes are from this thread (no user names, not trying to call anyone out)...

"PS5 is overpowered. You've heard it first on NeoGAF, folks. Now let's wait for news outlets to catch up with this thread."

"Check the Medium trailer. It will be possible but with less fidelity than PS5. How much, we don't know yet. I expect quite a lot."

"I”m speculating here, but XsX cpu will be taxed where PS5 will be free, assets will be compromised, sound."

"This statement leaves Microsoft and the Series X in a really bad position. Just imagine Phil Spencer reading this."

"Anyway, simple answer is Xsex will be limited to 10gb vram..." "Presumably MS took this approach to save money/reduce cost."

"Nope, their (Xbox) solution is barely better than current gen"

"UE5 demo already looks better than anything that will be possible on XSX"

"Ps5 games will look better, deal with it."

"This is huge. He's just told the entire industry that Sony left them behind in a puddle of tears. PC hardware will catch up soon but Xbox... Please understand why our games smell of last gen. Please be excited for a mid-gen refresh in 3 years. Please use the cloud in the meanwhile."

"A mid-gen (Xbox) refresh will not fix this"
 

DaGwaphics

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Dec 29, 2019
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what a ridiculous thing to say

:messenger_tears_of_joy: You know these consoles are built willy-nilly based on drawings on napkins.

Both these teams chose the designs for specific reasons, they would do the same again. It seems like MS was very focused on a chip that could work seamlessly for Xcloud in the most efficient way possible. Sony had very specific goals also. They built different boxes, we'll have to see how they stack up, what the prices are, etc. before we could say someone goofed.
 
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sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
Jul 3, 2019
6,897
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A local pond.
:messenger_tears_of_joy: You know these consoles are built willy-nilly based on drawings on napkins.

Both these teams chose the designs for specific reasons, they would do the same again. It seems like MS was very focused on a chip that could work seamlessly for Xcloud in the most efficient way possible. Sony had very specific goals also. They built different boxes, we'll have to see how they stack up, what the prices are, etc. before we could say someone goofed.

It's just crazy the fucking bullshit some of these people are making up.
Mods let a whole group of them back in and boom, here we go again.
They are laughing at the mods good will.
 

LED Guy?

Banned
Apr 21, 2019
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I have beaten The Last of Us Part 2 & I’m just awed at this game, I couldn’t believe what I was seeing, that Joel & Ellie conversation... 😭😭😭

I’m really excited to double-dip for the PS5 remastered version, I would love to have enhanced shadows, textures, AF filtering & draw distance, but what I would love so much is maybe have like 2 modes.

1. Standard Native 4K 60 FPS like a normal remaster.

2. RT shadows, Global Illumination & reflections at 60 FPS with lower resolution than 4K.

It would be like heaven if this game got Ray-traced effects because at certain times with its dimly-lit scenes, it really needs those RT effects & that alone would make it look like real-life.
 
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ToadMan

Member
Dec 2, 2018
2,009
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Nah. Let's be real here.
For whatever reason Sony ended up with a 36 CU GPU. Be that because of back compat or they were looking at launching in 2019.
Because of this they found themselves with a console that was behind the XSX in power levels, and so we're only left with increasing clocks to close the power gap. That led to other issues they needed to solve such as thermal and power.

Nobody in their right mind thinks that Sony went in to this gen with the goal of using variable clocks from the outset.

I think Sony have done a good job to get to where they have.

Indeed Sony have developed a solution to meet their target requirement. MS did the same - although Sony wouldn't have known about xsex notional power 2 years or more ago so that wasn't a factor any more than MS trying to try to close the gulf of SSD throughput, or find a way to work with their memory pools.

So now we agree - PS5 doesn't have a thermal "issue" as you put it any more than MS had with xsex.

Not sure why it took you so many posts to finally reach the right conclusion when you'd been told it over and over though... Almost like arguing for the sake of it...
 

PropellerEar

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Dec 8, 2018
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Brad Sams. Google him. And your armchair expertise is better? Got it! And their are MS devs stating themselves the flaws in variable clocks. Perhaps your armchair dev expertise knows more than them also?
Did, he looks like a volunteer MS PR guy with no tech or dev chops.
MSFT can state all kinds of nonsense like power of the cloud and you and Sams will buy into that shit every time.
 

kensama

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Mar 25, 2007
533
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Really? The following quotes are from this thread (no user names, not trying to call anyone out)...

"PS5 is overpowered. You've heard it first on NeoGAF, folks. Now let's wait for news outlets to catch up with this thread."

"Check the Medium trailer. It will be possible but with less fidelity than PS5. How much, we don't know yet. I expect quite a lot."

"I”m speculating here, but XsX cpu will be taxed where PS5 will be free, assets will be compromised, sound."

"This statement leaves Microsoft and the Series X in a really bad position. Just imagine Phil Spencer reading this."

"Anyway, simple answer is Xsex will be limited to 10gb vram..." "Presumably MS took this approach to save money/reduce cost."

"Nope, their (Xbox) solution is barely better than current gen"

"UE5 demo already looks better than anything that will be possible on XSX"

"Ps5 games will look better, deal with it."

"This is huge. He's just told the entire industry that Sony left them behind in a puddle of tears. PC hardware will catch up soon but Xbox... Please understand why our games smell of last gen. Please be excited for a mid-gen refresh in 3 years. Please use the cloud in the meanwhile."

"A mid-gen (Xbox) refresh will not fix this"


I don't know what you try to do there. But for most of part that's not related to PS5 to outperform XSX. Some are speculation and this thread is here for that. Some facts (10Gb for VRAM said by Microsoft themselves, UE5 told by Sweeney that the UE5 will turn on XSX but not at the scale that it was showed due to PS5 optimisation and EPIC and Sony coworking since 3 years)
Can you provide links with statements please
 
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sonomamashine

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Jun 29, 2019
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Against the assault of laughter
Being sick of users like @SleepDoctor (or @Jon Neu , etc) I am currently in open conversation with the Staff. Until this conversation is over, I will not participate in the forum in the way that I did. Once the discussion with them is over, I will decide if I continue to contribute things to the forum or if I take my suitcase (or my BS as said by my users) and leave. I am sure that these types of users are normal in the forums, but it is something that I am not used to, if it has to be that way then I will always leave. If, on the contrary, measures are taken in this regard, then I will make another decision.
We (Gaf) also not used to see insiders still lurking in the forum after they got everything they said to be False.
You misinformed people, lost credibility, got called out, simple.
We already had a conversation about this in this thread :

 

Rudius

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Feb 19, 2020
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I have beaten The Last of Us Part 2 & I’m just awed at this game, I couldn’t believe what I was seeing, that Joel & Ellie conversation... 😭😭😭

I’m really excited to double-dip for the PS5 remastered version, I would love to have enhanced shadows, textures, AF filtering & draw distance, but what I would love so much is maybe have like 2 modes.

1. Standard Native 4K 60 FPS like a normal remaster.

2. RT shadows, Global Illumination & reflections at 60 FPS with lower resolution than 4K.

It would be like heaven if this game got Ray-traced effects because at certain times with its dimly-lit scenes, it really needs those RT effects & that alone would make it look like real-life.
The image quality is very nice already on the Pro, so 1440p 60 would suffice, with grapical improvements. Also it would be nice to have the cinematic models playable in game.
 

SSfox

Lies about why mods reply ban and warn me.
Jan 7, 2018
2,847
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It said already by that Jeff guy that The Initiative won't be there, so no Perfect Dark, half of the hype of the show already dead to me, at least mostly when it comes to exclusives.

Hope at least there are gonna be some cool 3rd party games announcements to save the day.
 
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dimaveshkin

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May 20, 2020
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I wish it had asymmetrical sticks, the moment I tried Xbox's controllers on PC I couldn't go back to Dualshock.
Which sucks since I don't care about Xbox as a platform.
Just FYI, there are alternative PS4 controllers with Xbox layout (Nacon, SCUF). I guess it's safe to assume they will be doing alternatives for PS5 too. It's interesting how they will handle haptic feedback tho.
 

LED Guy?

Banned
Apr 21, 2019
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The image quality is very nice already on the Pro, so 1440p 60 would suffice, with grapical improvements. Also it would be nice to have the cinematic models playable in game.
Yeah I agree and for the cinematic models, it’s really just high resolution lights and shadows being hand-put by developers in each camera shot around the main characters to flesh them out way more, it’s what many call it “hero lighting”, while all of that happening, they’re performing motion-captured animations that were done by their actors/actresses and sometimes they put custom additive shaders like sweat/blood/rain in some cutscenes to specifically tell what happened to those characters.

You just can’t put lights around a character while you’re playing the game because you’re moving freely in any area.
 
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My thoughts exactly. If Sony could get free pass card to rebuild new ps5 right now from scratch it would look nothing like it does.

I still think they wouldn't have changed their I/O architecture. They could have gone with a larger die and increased the CU count but that would have been alot more expensive. They could also have made the ram faster or include more of it but then cost would be an issue.

Maybe they would have changed some things but the overall design would have remained the same.

People are acting like they screwed up with the hardware and that the design is some sort of horrible mistake. But that really isn't the case.
 

HeisenbergFX4

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Random Q, What happned to Osiris black? Havent seen his avatar in awhile...

He was quite convinced the PS5 was considerably more powerful then it turned out to be.

Still to this day from speaking to him privately I do not believe he intentionally set out to deceive people I think he had bad info from his source and after some recent events with some devs I believe that more then ever today.
 
Mar 27, 2020
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Uncharted bunghole
He was quite convinced the PS5 was considerably more powerful then it turned out to be.

Still to this day from speaking to him privately I do not believe he intentionally set out to deceive people I think he had bad info from his source and after some recent events with some devs I believe that more then ever today.

It wasn't him that thought that other insiders did as well. No idea if it was just a high TF GCN dev kit or just bad info that did this.

There were other users that were just trolling though like that T tflopsmatter person. He basically tried to set everyone's expectations sky high (cause he had a strong feeling that the final numbers would be lower) and then proceeded to trash the systems once the numbers were given.
 
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Metroiddarks

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All i know is XSX has all most a 2tf power advantage at sustained performance,which is superior to variable clocks in terms of performance and ease of development.

Other than that, i have a some armchair devs spinning things in favor of the weaker PS5. I'll leave it at that.
So you use phrase 'some armchair devs' just after you used the term TF as the definitive argument.

I don't see any irony.
My understanding is that it can't run at full speeds for both the gpu and cpu at the same time.
The consume of you CPU for example is not only Clock=Power usage
Brad Sams. Google him. And your armchair expertise is better? Got it! And their are MS devs stating themselves the flaws in variable clocks. Perhaps your armchair dev expertise knows more than them also?
Basically any engineer/dev is better in this topic than him, at least please see what the guy studied or in what he is work before.

I have said numerous times that the difference in power isn't really going to be obvious in the image on the screen, but we are talking about subtle differences in the architecture, and from my point of view, it's interesting to see the difference in approach and how that will effect one console against the other.
Basically nitpicking.
I expecting to see 3 basic kind of cases:

1) Almost equals in both console not all studios will have time/money to optimize for this consoles and PC
2) Better lighting/a little more of resolution in some XSX games.
3)Better textures/geometry for some games in PS5.
 

Sinthor

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It's just crazy the fucking bullshit some of these people are making up.
Mods let a whole group of them back in and boom, here we go again.
They are laughing at the mods good will.

Exactly. It's AMAZING how consistently we see with just about every generation that 'Sony planned on launching a year earlier, but they screwed up...' followed by domination after domination. People said the PS3 was underpowered because it was meant for the year before...still ended up having the better looking games. PS4...same thing was being said and then...whoops! Now this with the PS5. Look, I'm not saying that either MS or Sony can't make mistakes- they obviously do. But products like this are often OVER-engineered if anything. They don't and CAN'T just slap some things together because they screwed up, and still make a successful product. Now if the PS5 comes out and just SUCKS running games and has tons of hardware issues...maybe there's a case to be made. What we're hearing right now though indicates simply a different philosophy and one that has the "slower" hardware running neck and neck and sometimes BETTER than the "faster" hardware. We need more head to head comparisons in real world to really see where we're at though.

I DO feel with 99.9% certainty that the people thinking that somehow MS will be able to have games with significant framerate differences (like saying games will be 30fps on PS5 and 60fps on XSX) will be severely disappointed.
 
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