Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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saintjules

Member
I am partially agree but also you can spent a lot money to have a PC better than the XSX.

As I say before if you have problems to be able to afford both and you are adult who work probably
you time should be used in trying to have a better job instead to participate in a console war
between companies but also saying that the companies need to show you games you want to play.



I actually went ahead and got a 2060 Super for my Machine. Trying PC slowly to see the hype surrounding the Master Race.
 
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yewles1

Member
Not sure you aimed that at me or the other guy?

Yeah I see Ali Salehi did make a comparison to the XSX and the PS3 in the interpretation. I don't know maybe he was being kind to the XSX or maybe the interpretation was slightly off

On the whole Ali has been correct about the PS5 and he deserves ultimate kudos for it as he was one of the first! But his XSX PS3 comparison is a bit pair shaped I don't exactly agree with, again it may have been the interpretation...

(Stuff you may know already) The PS3 had no physical bottlenecks, yes it was a nightmare cos developers who could not understand it's CELL processor couldn't utilize it's advantages, it was totally different paradigm shift in programming techniques. The CELL was too exotic and alien to the average devs so it was a big learning curve which took time to master. Yeah it's RSX GPU by itself could not compete with 360's GPU, but it was tailored to work in conjunction with the CELL and when it was used that way the PS3 outshone everything the 360 had to offer

Whereas XSX is the direct opposite, it is very familiar territory for the developers and more like the traditional PC (much more than the PS5). The bottlenecks here have nothing to do with devs trying to master the system, the bottlenecks is real in the physical hardware, no amount of expert programming or new software api's will make it perform better than the hardware innovations implemented in the PS5

But hey I'm no authority (leave that to lepermessiah 🙃 ). I just have a passion for innovative technology... I suspect you too ?
I do too, that's why I became more surprised by PS5's tech the more I looked into it after my initial disappointment without thinking right about it all.
 
I know it sounds silly, but I'm starting to think XSX will be delayed. I know they have already confirmed the November launch but MS marketing isn't making any sense these days, just like they announced the F2P MP knowing Halo needed/would be delayed.

I just can't see that console being ready. We haven't seen any next-gen footage on it, we have only seen it complete with youtubers under MS supervision and everywhere they just have those empty prototypes.

It's funny, Sony hasn't show the hardware that much physically, but the fact they bolst they are running games on PS5 makes me okay with it. I know what's inside the shell it's good, but with the XSX I just know the shell, despite spec sheets.

Same is true for Lockhart... Where is it? Shouldn't it be being mass factured? Where are the leaks? I don't think Lockhart will make through 2020, I'm not even sure about XSX.

This is just odd, something is definitely wrong on Microsoft.
 
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I’m starting to believe Xbox Series X is not a functional machine yet.

Neither a Xbox One game running into it via BC was showed.

No it functions.They are probably hitting several bottlenecks. And not hitting their target of "2080TI".Hence no footage & *representation of XSX gameplay disclaimers*. The performance is not there yet.

I think after they saw Cernys GDC speech & the UE5 demo. The xbox engineers have been battling 3 fronts the I/O SSD, hitting their 2080TI target , and XSX performance issues. They have been trying to get the XSX to do the PS5 I/O stuff. But it's not going happen. PS5 is heavily customised its target rendering is completely different space. As seen by UE5 demo.

XSX is a suped up 1X. It's built to be the best version of how games currently work. It's not gong to do what the PS5 does. It cant be replicated with software api's & velocity architect nonsense. Engineers are running our of time , they are probably going to have to release the XSX as suped up 1X. Im sure the footage will show up. Not sure how great it will look. But the footage will be here. If they keep hiding the actual gameplay footage. Until retail release then it means they are hiding a 720p esq shame. But in this case not 12TF more powerful console..
 
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I know it sounds silly, but I'm starting to think XSX will be delayed. I know they have already confirmed the November launch but MS marketing isn't making any sense these days, just like they announced the F2P MP knowing Halo needed/would be delayed.

I just can't see that console being ready. We haven't seen any next-gen footage on it, we have only seen it complete with youtubers under MS supervision and everywhere they just have those empty prototypes.

It's funny, Sony hasn't show the hardware that much physically, but the fact they bolst they are running games on PS5 makes me okay with it. I know what's inside the shell it's good, but with the XSX I just know the shell, despite spec sheets.

Same is true for Lockhart... Where is it? Shouldn't it be being mass factured? Where are the leaks? I don't think Lockhart will make through 2020, I'm not even sure about XSX.

This is just odd, something is definitely wrong on Microsoft.

I think they’ll be on time, but it seems like they were perhaps slow to get dev-kits out compared to Sony.

To my knowledge we’ve seen nothing come out the backside of a Series X, yet. Not even from a dev-kit, only PC footage.
That doesn’t mean there are technical problems but perhaps does suggest dev-kits arrived late and haven’t been figured out fully enough to demonstrate anything yet?
 

tillbot8

Banned

Train is still rolling!

 
I think they’ll be on time, but it seems like they were perhaps slow to get dev-kits out compared to Sony.

To my knowledge we’ve seen nothing come out the backside of a Series X, yet. Not even from a dev-kit, only PC footage.
That doesn’t mean there are technical problems but perhaps does suggest dev-kits arrived late and haven’t been figured out fully enough to demonstrate anything yet?
I don't understand why, if that's the case, it's taken so long to get dev kits in developers hands. What was the hold up? Was it hardware related? PS5 seems a bit more bespoke in its own hardware, so it seems strange something a bit more traditional/straightforward like the Series X would have these difficulties getting to studios. In fact, Series X seemed ahead of the curve when it came to next-gen reveals so everything looked full steam ahead. Odd.
 

TLZ

Member
I don't understand why, if that's the case, it's taken so long to get dev kits in developers hands. What was the hold up? Was it hardware related? PS5 seems a bit more bespoke in its own hardware, so it seems strange something a bit more traditional/straightforward like the Series X would have these difficulties getting to studios. In fact, Series X seemed ahead of the curve when it came to next-gen reveals so everything looked full steam ahead. Odd.
It's really weird, considering Phil showed us he had the SX in his home since last year.
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
No it functions.They are probably hitting several bottlenecks. And not hitting their target of "2080TI".Hence no footage & *representation of XSX gameplay disclaimers*. The performance is not there yet.

I think after they saw Cernys GDC speech & the UE5 demo. The xbox engineers have been battling 3 fronts the I/O SSD, hitting their 2080TI target , and XSX performance issues. They have been trying to get the XSX to do the PS5 I/O stuff. But it's not going happen. PS5 is heavily customised its target rendering is completely different space. As seen by UE5 demo.

XSX is a suped up 1X. It's built to be the best version of how games currently work. It's not gong to do what the PS5 does. It cant be replicated with software api's & velocity architect nonsense. Engineers are running our of time , they are probably going to have to release the XSX as suped up 1X. Im sure the footage will show up. Not sure how great it will look. But the footage will be here. If they keep hiding the actual gameplay footage. Until retail release then it means they are hiding a 720p esq shame. But in this case not 12TF more powerful console..

Isn't it WAY too late to be "battling bottlenecks" and the like? I mean this hardware is already in production. You might make SOFTWARE adjustments, even BIOS type adjustments, but nothing hardware. So IF there are bottlenecks somewhere there will just be very limited things that can be done to mitigate the issues. And...whether MS engineers are as good as Sony's or not...they're still engineers. They KNOW they can't do anything to get magical I/O performance when the hardware just isn't at that level.

I think the only reason we're not seeing anything, even third party running on XSX yet is that MS isn't allowing it to be shown. For whatever reason. The reason we see nothing 1st party is because those studios have only been working on their titles for 1-2 years so far. Not much to show at that point.

I DO think it's curious we're not seeing anything even like Assassins Creed running on XSX, but there has to be a reason that MS is restricting that. We'll see. Not a lot of time left- only a couple of months!
 
Isn't it WAY too late to be "battling bottlenecks" and the like? I mean this hardware is already in production. You might make SOFTWARE adjustments, even BIOS type adjustments, but nothing hardware. So IF there are bottlenecks somewhere there will just be very limited things that can be done to mitigate the issues. And...whether MS engineers are as good as Sony's or not...they're still engineers. They KNOW they can't do anything to get magical I/O performance when the hardware just isn't at that level.

I think the only reason we're not seeing anything, even third party running on XSX yet is that MS isn't allowing it to be shown. For whatever reason. The reason we see nothing 1st party is because those studios have only been working on their titles for 1-2 years so far. Not much to show at that point.

I DO think it's curious we're not seeing anything even like Assassins Creed running on XSX, but there has to be a reason that MS is restricting that. We'll see. Not a lot of time left- only a couple of months!
If by some unknown reason these consoles are delayed till 2021, I'm flippin' tables.

Strange for Microsoft to be restricting anything. They've been so open with Series X. I just don't understand how they'd be restricting game footage when they've already done a damn Hot Chips. Also, considering all missteps so far on their part, if any studio had something worth the price of admission for Series X, they'd definitely have shown it off already. I'm positive they'll have great stuff down the line, but everything up to this point makes me think they're just cursed.
 
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James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
the retailer cut on consoles can be as high as $60. Possibly $80 if you look at the ps4 bom and the fact that they needed to sell a first party game to break even.

So if Sony can cut the retailer on even 20% of the consoles sold, they will have saved hundreds of millions of dollars on the first 10 million shipments.

This could mean the console is expensive but it could also mean console is cheaper because Sony is willing to bypass retailers

What's stopping Sony from just having a cheaper price on their online store vs. what other retailers offer?
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
If by some unknown reason these consoles are delayed till 2021, I'm flippin' tables.

Strange for Microsoft to be restricting anything. They've been so open with Series X. I just don't understand how they'd be restricting game footage when they've already done a damn Hot Chips. Also, considering all missteps so far on their part, if any studio had something worth the price of admission for Series X, they'd definitely have shown it off already. I'm positive they'll have great stuff down the line, but everything up to this point makes me think they're just cursed.

Yeah, I know...I'm reaching. It does seem very odd. Ok, while I'm reaching...let me throw this out there. I generally hate doing this kind of thing and this kind of speculation but hell, this IS a speculation thread. So here's my imagination at work. :)

So MS has a very powerful piece of hardware in the XSX. The GPU is very powerful. However, they used a split memory bank which they have had performance issues from in the past. WHAT IF:

They cannot get the full use out of the GPU because with their memory design, any access of the "slow" memory, relegates the whole system to that speed? What if the only way to get the higher speed out of the memory is to NOT use ANY of the slow RAM. This means that not even parts of the OS could be in the slow RAM area which is what it's designed for, and you can access NONE of the OS features if you want that high speed bandwidth and performance? So memory has to be flushed in order to load your game code and run fast. Then, to access OS features, the whole system slows down again and the OS portions have to be loaded? So they are working on BIOS and software solutions to make these transitions much easier for developers because all of the current game code just utilizes the slower speeds and so isn't really showing what the box can do?

Ok, I'm sure there's holes in that speculation and I'm not really serious about it. I mean, I won't be surprised to learn that there ARE performance restrictions due to the split memory banks, but I WOULD be surprised if they were to this extent!

Like I said before...we know there's nothing first party to show because those studios aren't far enough along yet. Fine. The lack of third party showings IS weird though. Could it be that for whatever reason, the third party games actually have deficiencies in comparison to the PS5 versions for some reason and MS wants to hold off on showing that as long as possible so that they can have SOMETHING that is XSX native to show and that would offset those deficiencies? Like being able to show a Halo demo that looked like their initial CGI trailer would go a long way towards balancing things even if games like Assassins Creed look worse on XSX than on PS5?

Well, that ends my rampant, pulled out of my ass, speculation on all this. Again, maybe it's just Covid and we'll start to see tons of cross platform demos and games getting into late September and into October.
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
What's stopping Sony from just having a cheaper price on their online store vs. what other retailers offer?

Absolutely NOTHING. It's just a matter of balancing the need to have goodwill from these retailers or perhaps even contract terms. I mean, they could sell PS5 for half the cost on their website... but...if you are Sony would you want to risk all the people working at GameStop, BestBuy and other retailers starting to badmouth Sony and push people in their stores to XSX? I mean there have been stories in the past of certain stores belonging to some chains being actively pro one brand and negative on another and it was something that all companies including Sony and MS have fought against when it comes up. Apple used to have people that would go into Best Buy's and if the sales people were trying to tell people "Apple sucks, you need to buy a PC" they would take the issue up the chain to corporate. They weren't the only company doing this by any means. So I think it's more a matter of retailer goodwill. These companies still need the brick and mortar stores and they need those stores to support them. Until and unless that changes....I don't think you'll see this kind of thing.
 
Yeah, I know...I'm reaching. It does seem very odd. Ok, while I'm reaching...let me throw this out there. I generally hate doing this kind of thing and this kind of speculation but hell, this IS a speculation thread. So here's my imagination at work. :)

So MS has a very powerful piece of hardware in the XSX. The GPU is very powerful. However, they used a split memory bank which they have had performance issues from in the past. WHAT IF:

They cannot get the full use out of the GPU because with their memory design, any access of the "slow" memory, relegates the whole system to that speed? What if the only way to get the higher speed out of the memory is to NOT use ANY of the slow RAM. This means that not even parts of the OS could be in the slow RAM area which is what it's designed for, and you can access NONE of the OS features if you want that high speed bandwidth and performance? So memory has to be flushed in order to load your game code and run fast. Then, to access OS features, the whole system slows down again and the OS portions have to be loaded? So they are working on BIOS and software solutions to make these transitions much easier for developers because all of the current game code just utilizes the slower speeds and so isn't really showing what the box can do?

Ok, I'm sure there's holes in that speculation and I'm not really serious about it. I mean, I won't be surprised to learn that there ARE performance restrictions due to the split memory banks, but I WOULD be surprised if they were to this extent!

Like I said before...we know there's nothing first party to show because those studios aren't far enough along yet. Fine. The lack of third party showings IS weird though. Could it be that for whatever reason, the third party games actually have deficiencies in comparison to the PS5 versions for some reason and MS wants to hold off on showing that as long as possible so that they can have SOMETHING that is XSX native to show and that would offset those deficiencies? Like being able to show a Halo demo that looked like their initial CGI trailer would go a long way towards balancing things even if games like Assassins Creed look worse on XSX than on PS5?

Well, that ends my rampant, pulled out of my ass, speculation on all this. Again, maybe it's just Covid and we'll start to see tons of cross platform demos and games getting into late September and into October.
A stretch, but maybe. I think it just comes down to poor execution. Maybe even ironing out issues in dev kits themselves.
 

Bligtgate

Member
Series X dev kit as being sent out early January here in Montreal. Two months after covid happens... i know for fact that the console aint the problem but business is business and games studios need to prioritize and right now PS5 is the priority since development starter early 2019 for a super heroes games coming out in November on ps5. Btw full visual upgrade will be late for XSX and it as nothing to do with the hardware it will even look n feel a bit bitter but unfortunately dev kit was send late n from
What i heard its the same for bunch of studios
 

BoxFresh123

Gold Member
Isn't it WAY too late to be "battling bottlenecks" and the like? I mean this hardware is already in production. You might make SOFTWARE adjustments, even BIOS type adjustments, but nothing hardware. So IF there are bottlenecks somewhere there will just be very limited things that can be done to mitigate the issues. And...whether MS engineers are as good as Sony's or not...they're still engineers. They KNOW they can't do anything to get magical I/O performance when the hardware just isn't at that level.

I think the only reason we're not seeing anything, even third party running on XSX yet is that MS isn't allowing it to be shown. For whatever reason. The reason we see nothing 1st party is because those studios have only been working on their titles for 1-2 years so far. Not much to show at that point.

I DO think it's curious we're not seeing anything even like Assassins Creed running on XSX, but there has to be a reason that MS is restricting that. We'll see. Not a lot of time left- only a couple of months!

Granted it's rumours but there was talk about MS limiting what has been show to titles available day and date on Game Pass. How many of the top tier 3rd party games go to Game Pass day 1?
 
Series X dev kit as being sent out early January here in Montreal. Two months after covid happens... i know for fact that the console aint the problem but business is business and games studios need to prioritize and right now PS5 is the priority since development starter early 2019 for a super heroes games coming out in November on ps5. Btw full visual upgrade will be late for XSX and it as nothing to do with the hardware it will even look n feel a bit bitter but unfortunately dev kit was send late n from
What i heard its the same for bunch of studios

That is some of it. Also dev kits software on PC’s having issues emulating Xbox Series X features like VRS, Ray Tracing, Velocity Architecture , And other features The Xbox Series X has. Will be better over time but getting off the ground has been made difficult with Covid in Dev time.

Number one rumor I hear about Xbox Series X. Is how in depth and detailed Velocity Architecture is. Very difficult to master. Takes time mastering and using all levels of feature sets of Xbox Series X. This is why your still seeing game engines running on PC trying to emulate Xbox Series X. Some of these issues showed it’s ugly head in the Halo Infinite Gameplay demo. I could talk more..but Don’t have time tonight.
 

Thedtrain

Member
That is some of it. Also dev kits software on PC’s having issues emulating Xbox Series X features like VRS, Ray Tracing, Velocity Architecture , And other features The Xbox Series X has. Will be better over time but getting off the ground has been made difficult with Covid in Dev time.

Number one rumor I hear about Xbox Series X. Is how in depth and detailed Velocity Architecture is. Very difficult to master. Takes time mastering and using all levels of feature sets of Xbox Series X. This is why your still seeing game engines running on PC trying to emulate Xbox Series X. Some of these issues showed it’s ugly head in the Halo Infinite Gameplay demo. I could talk more..but Don’t have time tonight.
Cool. This is stuff that I kind of assumed too. They should pump out some amazing visuals out of that box, very intrigued to see it in a few months.
Might have been a better idea to delay release imo
 
Let me know what you think about the hair in both of these characters...

I really think Insomniac Games have a secret sauce for next-gen hair...

Note: consider that the top image is rendered far from the camera while the bottom image is rendered close to it.



Well more than a secret sauce is because now they can use a GPU with features of 2020 and a CPU which still be one the best in this moment.

They now can implement more complex algorithms and different API not available before, the last generation basically have one big improvement
which was the RAM-VRAM, curiously this time that is smaller change (8-16) but now in my opinion we have a more balance system than the last time,
with the last consoles when we know will be 8 cores for a moment we will happy but then we discover how bad were those cores so was not the best way
to start the gen.

The CPU now is huge problem even for manage in a decent way all the draw calls the devs need to do, not even mention physics simulation and AI. The
current GPUS are not good using tessellation. Not even mention than the RT still be a field where the devs still doing different research so I will not surprise if
the method they use now for RT changes completely in just a couple of years.

 
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That is some of it. Also dev kits software on PC’s having issues emulating Xbox Series X features like VRS, Ray Tracing, Velocity Architecture , And other features The Xbox Series X has. Will be better over time but getting off the ground has been made difficult with Covid in Dev time.

Number one rumor I hear about Xbox Series X. Is how in depth and detailed Velocity Architecture is. Very difficult to master. Takes time mastering and using all levels of feature sets of Xbox Series X. This is why your still seeing game engines running on PC trying to emulate Xbox Series X. Some of these issues showed it’s ugly head in the Halo Infinite Gameplay demo. I could talk more..but Don’t have time tonight.

Sounds like the hardware is doing the work for developers on the PS5 where the I/O is concerned.
 

Bligtgate

Member
Cool. This is stuff that I kind of assumed too. They should pump out some amazing visuals out of that box, very intrigued to see it in a few months.
Might have been a better idea to delay release imo
MS won’t delay the hardware is here and viable but Dev’s are working literally from home and sometime u need send the hardware back and wait for the new built to come but while waiting you’re working on PC and on PC software is not all up n running cause no software ingénieur are working on it 7 days a week its more of a situation of yeah im available oups sorry got to go my kid came in the room type of situation. Its suck’s but right now it aint easy for MS xbox but they r trying really hard to do the right thing.. n FOR SUR SERIES Come November 5 but it might still feel like a xbox one X on launch day. But they r trying really hard right now. And for the next AC the series X update might or should i even say push back a little..
 

Games Dean

Member
What's stopping Sony from just having a cheaper price on their online store vs. what other retailers offer?
I think it's two things. First, I think that doing so would cause a serious strain in the relationship Sony has with it's retailers. 2nd, and probably more importantly, they'd be setting themselves up for a lawsuit. You can't force retailers to sell for a higher price which is what in effect they'd be doing, than you actually want to sell the product for.
 
Sounds like the hardware is doing the work for developers on the PS5 where the I/O is concerned.

PS5 solution is more hardware based with some Software to back it. As Xbox Series X is more 50% Hardware and 50% software based. To put it in layman terms. This approach has given Sony’s PS5 Solution and early leg up in development. But There has been some small problem developing for PS5 to on a small scale for some studios and devs. That is where some of the Rumors came from. I can go in detail on that if you would like. Mind you what I hear is second hand and whispers in the wind.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
MS won’t delay the hardware is here and viable but Dev’s are working literally from home and sometime u need send the hardware back and wait for the new built to come but while waiting you’re working on PC and on PC software is not all up n running cause no software ingénieur are working on it 7 days a week its more of a situation of yeah im available oups sorry got to go my kid came in the room type of situation. Its suck’s but right now it aint easy for MS xbox but they r trying really hard to do the right thing.. n FOR SUR SERIES Come November 5 but it might still feel like a xbox one X on launch day. But they r trying really hard right now. And for the next AC the series X update might or should i even say push back a little..

Amazing news! Thanks for sharing! 🥳
 
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