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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Gamernyc78

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Yes, developers can choose how to set up the installs. Rushy talked about this towards the end of Driveclub’s final updates in the past.

Probably why some games do it, and some don’t. Most recently for me Death Stranding and RDR2 updates don’t do the “copying” part. They act just like games all did the first few years, installed instantly when download was done.

Just like tht play and go feature. So
Yes, developers can choose how to set up the installs. Rushy talked about this towards the end of Driveclub’s final updates in the past.

Probably why some games do it, and some don’t. Most recently for me Death Stranding and RDR2 updates don’t do the “copying” part. They act just like games all did the first few years, installed instantly when download was done.

This conversation reminds me of playgo and how ps4 had this feature since the beginning but I'm not remembering it used in all games.... (maybe I'm not remembering right)

 

SmokSmog

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bitbydeath

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The N7+ volume production is one of the fastest on record. N7+, which began volume production in the second quarter of 2019, is matching yields similar to the original N7 process that has been in volume production for more than one year.


N7+ is also providing improved overall performance. When compared to the N7 process, N7+ provides 15% to 20% more density and improved power consumption, making it an increasingly popular choice for the industry’s next-wave products.

 

xool

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Not sure if I should believe this .. one guy on twitter suddenly has commercially sensitive info for both TSMC and Samsung ...


Also this :


is made up data based on a defect density of 1.4 per mm2 for Samsung, and 0.09 per mm2 for TSMC

Don't know where they got those numbers from. arse maybe ?

[edit] and their calculations seem completely wrong .. 0.09 /mm2 is 9 defects per cm2 .. the yield from that even for 155mm2 chip (1.55cm2) is near 0 [edit they probably meant 0.09 / cm2]
 
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bitbydeath

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Not sure if I should believe this .. one guy on twitter suddenly has commercially sensitive info for both TSMC and Samsung ...


Also this :


is made up data based on a defect density of 1.4 per mm2 for Samsung, and 0.09 per mm2 for TSMC

Don't know where they got those numbers from. arse maybe ?

It’s irrelevant to next-gen. TSMC already has 7nm+ EUV available.
 

MaulerX

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Why does he then go on to explain that he always gamed on many systems and that he is now unshackled from the PR speak and that he saw this through his now job at Blizzard?


One statement had absolutely nothing to do with the other. That was Tweeter response he gave about the publisher poll he ran on a completely different day.


Had nothing to do with what he said in the RDX podcast. And he NEVER said anything about seeing something at his new job at Blizzard in that tweet. You guys are clearly fabricating stuff now to suit your narrative.
 
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Lunatic_Gamer

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“PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X SSDs may both use a derivative of new enterprise tech to boost speeds and provide devs with granular access to data”.

 

TBiddy

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“PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X SSDs may both use a derivative of new enterprise tech to boost speeds and provide devs with granular access to data”.


Thanks. Very interesting read that one. Sounds like both parties have created their own software stack on top of the SSDs to increase the I/O as much as possible.
 
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sinnergy

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A now PS has secret sauce? HBM? Ultra fast SSD, ReRAM, it’s getting ridiculous, right after the series X reveal! Sony should give fans some more info .... also as machine are both with current tech, the won’t differ that much, economically and technologically not feasible, we have seen this before.
 

megreotsugua

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Guys please allow me some MisterXMedia-level of speculation. But I'm sure you'll find this interesting.

First, read what a game dev told me about how ReRAM might be used in games.
Assuming magic compression exists, CPU could uncompress insane details to ReRam so it is available quickly, e.g. when player turns view.
Then my initial Megatexture argument would make more sense again, if we make some assumptions:
* decompression very expensive, so need to cache full environment around player, not just what's currently on screen. 10 x more data.
* Sub millimeter texture resolutions everywhere. 100x100 more data?


If you uncompress insane details to ReRAM so it is available quickly then you can stream textures and assets at run-time without ever using your CPU bandwidth and cores for such task. At load-time it doesn't matter but at run-time CPU resources is precious and better used to run your games. Decompression is very demanding and may use entire CPU. It is the present bottleneck in load times, not the SSD bandwidth. Now consider this statement by a dev:
When it comes to the PS5, faster hardware is always appreciated and will make life easier in the short term, but it's the new SSD that really stands out; essentially streaming will become something that we don't really have to worry so much about and it will free up some extra CPU bandwidth in the process," said Remedy's lead programmer Sean Donnelly while speaking to the Official PlayStation Magazine.


This statement could mean two things. PS5 has a secondary chip dedicated for decompression or the streamed assets are not compressed at all. And then consider this next statement from another dev:
If games would stay the same in terms of scope and visual quality it’d make loading times be almost unnoticeable and restarting a level could be almost instant [in PS5 games].

However, since more data can be now used there can also be cases where production
might be cheaper and faster when not optimising content, which will lead into having to load much more data, leading back into a situation where you have about the same loading times as today.


Same loading times as today? 30 seconds - a minute? I don't see that scenario at all with 20GB RAM and 4GB/s SSD with 8-core CPU all being used to decompress AT LOAD-TIME. Even XSX is touting mere seconds of loading times because of their fast SSD and powerful CPU.

The only scenario I see this happening is if the game was made to read from the ReRAM immediately because they are showing insane details in their game. In this scenario, devs may find themselves having to load assets and textures to both main RAM and ReRAM from the "cold storage" (which could be a regular fast SSD) if they do not optimize their content and manage the memory well. If you have to load 16GB of RAM plus another 64GB of memory (assuming that's the amount of memory allocated and needed for the game to run) and you have 4GB/s of SSD, then that would really "lead back into a situation where you have about the same loading times as today".

But that will not happen "if games would stay the same in terms of scope and visual quality it’d make loading times be almost unnoticeable and restarting a level could be almost instant [in PS5 games].

But if devs will take advantage of that ultra-fast "extra storage", then they have to manage their memory again or they will find themselves "having to load much more data, leading back into a situation where you have about the same loading times as today."
 
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henau212

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Not sure if I should believe this .. one guy on twitter suddenly has commercially sensitive info for both TSMC and Samsung ...


Also this :


is made up data based on a defect density of 1.4 per mm2 for Samsung, and 0.09 per mm2 for TSMC

Don't know where they got those numbers from. arse maybe ?

[edit] and their calculations seem completely wrong .. 0.09 /mm2 is 9 defects per cm2 .. the yield from that even for 155mm2 chip (1.55cm2) is near 0 [edit they probably meant 0.09 / cm2]
Anandtech also said that Samsung 7nm is inferior at the qualcomm 865 announcement (the snapdragon 865 is a lot smaller).. Seems to be some truth to the Twitter. Only question is whether both consoles are N7P or EUV at TSMC..
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1517...65-and-765-5g-for-all-in-2020-all-the-details
 

ZywyPL

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With HDMI 2.1 do we need to replace TV’s or are 2019 model TV’s more then enough for next generation?

Current TVs will do just fine, especially the high-end 120Hz QLED/OLED ones. But to fully utilize the next-gen consoles HDMI 2.1 will be a must-have - low-latency input, variable refresh rate etc. all of the tech will elevate the experience even further than the already great 4K60.
 

ANIMAL1975

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What youre missing is our friend R600 here looking for FUD to push his agenda of a 9.2 TF console :messenger_tears_of_joy:

When he is not busy maligning fellow posters by calling them retards that is.
I think you might be on to something 🤔

You havent put tht dude on ignore? I did tht over a year ago 😂😂😂😂
But then you miss all the fun from when he gets called out (and from the tears and crows when specs finally come out)

You have red gaming tech saying that they are hearing the Xbox GPU is more powerful, as well as the xbox Ray tracing is better than the PS5.
Sony and MS would know what each others specs are, and both have the ability to match what the other is doing, so long as they have the same Cu's. Both are able to remove heat from their consoles and get the highest clocks.
I wouldn't be surprised if both come in at the exact same power level.
Well that's my point? I wasn't even arguing which is more powerful, i was talking about the nonsensical of the gonzalo leak believers putting both machines in the 8/9tf power envelope, or putting only the PS5 to say that it's 'going to be trounced' by the X series,... remember 'Arcturus'!?

Stop you guys I'm sure he is on to something here

Drugs probably
Nah I'm pretty sure it's cheap red wine
That shit gets you inspired!

Yet some random on an internet forum does?
And where do those random internet sites you have quoted go to get their 'information' this far from launch, and with the people in the 'know' full of NDAs? Never mind i tell you, it's on the internet forums where 'random' guys, who may actually have sources, post. If you're talking about windows central, that by the way isn't a random internet site, I'm pretty sure those were 'vetted' ms leaks.

Fake edit: Just to get things clear, and get something out of my head _ this buzz between my ears that's starting to get really annoying _ when you say 'those random on a internet forum' you are referring to forums in general.... Or just this one?
 
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BadBurger

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It's going to be interesting if these next gen consoles are as powerful as these leaks and news suggests. I know it's possible to crank out some serious performance from a well designed APU / SoC, but damn
 
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molly14

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If most the games are going to be 4k at least the price of a 4k tv is coming down.

Saw a brand new one yesterday 50inch for 299 pounds,nearly bought it at that price.
 
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xool

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With HDMI 2.1 do we need to replace TV’s or are 2019 model TV’s more then enough for next generation?

2019 won't have hdmi 2.1 .. but nether will/does anyone else .. devs will still be building for the old tech (not variable refresh rate)

So they should be fine. By the end of next gen things may be different.
 
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FranXico

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Fair enough.... but won't tell or don't know (like everyone else it seems)?

What confuses me is that this mystery RAM must be in the dev kit and be detailed in the developer documents and it has been out for 8 months. How is it possible that hasn't been leaked?
Devkit must have a certain setup, and documents specify that it is not representative of the final version. I guess.
 
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THE:MILKMAN

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Devkit must have a certain setup, and documents specify that it is not representative of the final version. I guess.

I really think at this point the dev kit is very representative of final given how far and wide it has been distributed and how long its been out (8 months) and to quote Cerny 'so that game creators will have the time they need to adjust to its capabilities'.
 
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