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[oldergamer]

I’m gonna agree to disagree on the geometry front. I don’t think XSX will be able to push the same polys ie data the PS5 will (and has), but should be interesting. I think the XSX is a more conventional design that will continue to show that. It might be better in some FPS comparisons of newer games (although current cross-gen has yet to show that).

Both consoles are more then powerful enough to fill an entire screen with polygons smaller then a pixel in size. Polygon throughput isnt an issue or even much of a factor in todays game performance. Rasterizing, culling, Texturing and shading those pixels are a much bigger factor on performance. This is why xbox imo is better suited with more ways to save on bandwidth or performance in hardware the ps5 has.

Xbox is less traditional then ps5 when it comes to the gpu, as they included some custom features that are meant to be released for pc at some point (future direct x)

 

[oldergamer]

The Xbox Series has very good tech, but it all comes down to whether a developer is going to use the stuff or just not bother. If they dont then i doubt we will see the Series perform any better than PS5.

This is spot on. Not all developers are going to use every feature to thier advantage. So some games on ps5 will benefit while others Xbox benefits.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Both consoles are more then powerful enough to fill an entire screen with polygons smaller then a pixel in size. Polygon throughput isnt an issue or even much of a factor in todays game performance.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Rasterizing, culling, Texturing and shading those pixels are a much bigger factor on performance. This is why xbox imo is better suited with more ways to save on bandwidth or performance in hardware the ps5 has.

I wonder why, lol.

Xbox is less traditional then ps5 when it comes to the gpu, as they included some custom features that are meant to be released for pc at some point (future direct x)

Can you name them?

 

[BatSu]

Don't try to understand, just look at it

 

[Great Hair]

The developer said it time and time again https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/gamerant.com/medium-next-gen-exclusive-reason/amp/

So ask yourself why ps5 games like spider man demon souls load in a second ratchet switches worlds in 2 seconds and unreal engine 5 streams 100+Gb of data in realtime on ps5 only and nothing of sort hasn't been shown on Xbox series x besides promises and a lot of marketing campaigns yet nothing to show for.

Spoiler: heh

 

[Lysandros]

I wouldn't rule Series X out although I'm confident PS5 will outperform it in geometry intense scenarios. Primitive and Mesh Shaders will also be a game changer for rendering geometry as they're ridiculously more efficient and programmable compared to the traditional graphics pipeline and allow higher levels of GPU utilisation, they also allow things like tessellation (increasing poly count of geometry by sub-dividing triangles/polygons) to become more easier and programmable.

Well even at elemantary level PS5 can render 22% more polygons per second while retaining the ability to cull 22% more due to clock frequency difference. PS5 is comfortably ahead in geometry throughput.

 

[Neo Blaster]

 

[Interfectum]

The Xbox Series has very good tech, but it all comes down to whether a developer is going to use the stuff or just not bother. If they dont then i doubt we will see the Series perform any better than PS5.

Series X is at a disadvantage due to the direction Xbox is going. Game Pass titles have to be coded across the Xbox ecosystem (PC, Series S and Series X). Dev time to fully optimize for Series X will be sparse. Contrast that with PS5 and, once cross platform shit is done, Sony first party can fully concentrate on only PS5 architecture.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Well even at elemantary level PS5 can render 22% more polygons per second while retaining the ability to cull 22% more due to clock frequency difference. PS5 is comfortably ahead in geometry throughput.

Culling is a bit more complicated than this. You're right if you consider only the traditional render path with fixed function hardware used for culling. However, most devs today will use GPU compute for culling as it's way faster. In which case XSX has an 18% advantage.

That said, the GE has it's own capabilities will allowing for culling earlier, so while XSX will cull triangles faster, PS5's potentially "smarter" culling solution could potentially cull polys more comprehensively, leading to higher overall performance due to having less degenerate geometry to render.

 

[Krisprolls]

Xbox is less traditional then ps5 when it comes to the gpu, as they included some custom features that are meant to be released for pc at some point (future direct x)

Actually, the more traditional console is definitely the Series X here. PS5 is the one with the most meaningful advanced features like real time variable frequency depending on workload (ensuring optimal use of power available at any time on CPU and GPU) or custom I/O and SSD, which makes for unmatched I/O speed and higher definition asset streaming (even compared to PC world).

 

[abel empire]

Both consoles are more then powerful enough to fill an entire screen with polygons smaller then a pixel in size. Polygon throughput isnt an issue or even much of a factor in todays game performance. Rasterizing, culling, Texturing and shading those pixels are a much bigger factor on performance. This is why xbox imo is better suited with more ways to save on bandwidth or performance in hardware the ps5 has.

Xbox is less traditional then ps5 when it comes to the gpu, as they included some custom features that are meant to be released for pc at some point (future direct x)

Nope the games we've seen have shown a bottleneck on series x design the polygon throughout matters! We've seen assassins creed have more detail like grass on ps5 than series x, hitman 3 drop frames in scenarios with more grass on screen, dirt 5 has less tessellation and texture streaming issues on series x than ps5, nba 2k21 dropping frames when more alpha effects are on screen on series x and not problem on ps5, recently outriders having a stable fps on ps5 and better texture filtering while flactuating during action on series x, these are all traditional games and they all show that faster clocks on ps5 help when lots of polygons are on screen and variable clocks keep stable frame rates.

 

[Dabaus]

Saw this at NPC ERA in the xbox thread, any idea if its true?

"There a rumors that Avowed loss their Game Director (Chris Parker) & Design director (Bobby null) and Carrie pattel lead the project now but it's just rumor with no sources."

 

[LiquidRex]

Because Demon Souls was designed to take advantage of the PS5.

Funny thing is, Demon's Souls doesn't even push what the PS5 is really capable of.

 

[Lysandros]

Culling is a bit more complicated than this. You're right if you consider only the traditional render path with fixed function hardware used for culling. However, most devs today will use GPU compute for culling as it's way faster. In which case XSX has an 18% advantage.

That said, the GE has it's own capabilities will allowing for culling earlier, so while XSX will cull triangles faster, PS5's potentially "smarter" culling solution could potentially cull polys more comprehensively, leading to higher overall performance due to having less degenerate geometry to render.

I am not sure to understand why to waste compute power for culling in the first place while you have a dedicated hardware for it? Are you saying XSX will favor culling using compute instead of using its GE?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Funny thing is, Demon's Souls doesn't even push what the PS5 is really capable of.

It does use some of it's unique features to an extent. The developers talked about how they are just loading a small area into the ram as you go through the level. One of the reasons why detail is very good in the game.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It does use some of it's unique features to an extent. The developers talked about how they are just loading a small area into the ram as you go through the level. One of the reasons why detail is very good in the game.

He's speaking about the interview when the developers said they didn't even scratch the surface of what the machine is capable of. Whether that is hyperbole or not remains to be seen. It's still impressive for a launch title.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

I am not sure to understand why to waste compute power for culling in the first place while you have a dedicated hardware for it? Are you saying XSX will favor culling using compute instead of using its GE?

What I'm saying is that the actual act of culling, i.e. discarding degenerate polys, is faster when using GPU compute as a general principle and so XSX will be up to 18% faster at this.

However, it's just as important when you do the culling. Culling itself is intended to discard non-visible triangles so as to save performance during the subsequent shading steps of the render pipeline. However, with the traditional render pipeline, using fixed function hardware for culling or conventional asynchronous compute (like on PS4), culling is done after parameter generation of the existing geometry. So your GPU is wasting cycles generating parameters for geometry that will eventually be discarded during culling.

The PS5 GE allows for you to discard triangles earlier, i.e. prior to parameter generation, so you save performance on both shading and primitive parameter generation. I don't know if XSX allows for a similar thing. Matt Hargaret's tweet on the subject kinda suggests it doesn't.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Conceptually it could be amazing... but in the actual execution... yeeeesh!

Graphics appear last gen and animation is damn near stop-motion.

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

Next Gen, for PS4 - Xbox One, okay mate.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Next Gen, for PS4 - Xbox One, okay mate.

Exactly what crossed my mind

 

[Great Hair]

Conceptually it could be amazing... but in the actual execution... yeeeesh!

Graphics appear last gen and animation is damn near stop-motion.

How the fuck did a studio established 2015 get the rights to make an alien game? WTF?!

MobyGames

www.mobygames.com

Glassdoor

 

[ErRor88]

 

[Lysandros]

What I'm saying is that the actual act of culling, i.e. discarding degenerate polys, is faster when using GPU compute as a general principle and so XSX will be up to 18% faster at this.

However, it's just as important when you do the culling. Culling itself is intended to discard non-visible triangles so as to save performance during the subsequent shading steps of the render pipeline. However, with the traditional render pipeline, using fixed function hardware for culling or conventional asynchronous compute (like on PS4), culling is done after parameter generation of the existing geometry. So your GPU is wasting cycles generating parameters for geometry that will eventually be discarded during culling.

The PS5 GE allows for you to discard triangles earlier, i.e. prior to parameter generation, so you save performance on both shading and primitive parameter generation. I don't know if XSX allows for a similar thing. Matt Hargaret's tweet on the subject kinda suggests it doesn't.

Thanks for the reply. Which specific GPU component/s is responsible for 'fixed function hardware culling' in this case? Do you have an idea why AMD gives the culling rate metrics for its GPUs as derived from clock frequency (4 per cycle if i remember correctly) if compute based based culling is so much more effective?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Source of these sales figures?

Thanks for the reply. Which specific GPU component/s is responsible for 'fixed function hardware culling' in this case? Do you have an idea why AMD gives the culling rate metrics for its GPUs as derived from clock frequency (4 per cycle if i remember correctly) if compute based based culling is so much more effective?

There is a fixed function hardware unit within the GPU front end. I'm not 100% sure where exactly it's located but it's likely to be part of the GE. This fixed function unit is able to process a fixed number of primitives per clock cycle, which I believe you're right in citing AMD's report of 4 primitives per clock.

GPU compute based culling is more effective, because instead of using a small fixed function unit that culls only 4x polys per clock, you're using the full width of your GPU shading array, which is faster BECAUSE its waaaay wider and so can cull polys per clock in proportion to the width of the array, i.e. number of CUs.

 

[LiquidRex]

Dead Island 2 is now releasing only on PC and next-gen - KitGuru

Dead Island 2 was first announced all the way back in 2014. Since then, the open-world survival zomb

www.kitguru.net

Good to know.

 

[Lysandros]

Source of these sales figures?



There is a fixed function hardware unit within the GPU front end. I'm not 100% sure where exactly it's located but it's likely to be part of the GE. This fixed function unit is able to process a fixed number of primitives per clock cycle, which I believe you're right in citing AMD's report of 4 primitives per clock.

GPU compute based culling is more effective, because instead of using a small fixed function unit that culls only 4x polys per clock, you're using the full width of your GPU shading array, which is faster BECAUSE its waaaay wider and so can cull polys per clock in proportion to the width of the array, i.e. number of CUs.

That's the thing, i was also seeing GEs (essentially) to be responsible for hardware culling and since PS5's GE is 22% faster and further customized to be fully programmable to do culling earlier in the pipeline, i was considering PS5 to be convincingly more capable at it.

Your counter argument of using CUs/compute resources for culling seems a bit counter untiutive to me but i lack knowledge about the matter, i need to do some research about it. Thanks.

 

[jamwest24]

Both consoles are more then powerful enough to fill an entire screen with polygons smaller then a pixel in size. Polygon throughput isnt an issue or even much of a factor in todays game performance. Rasterizing, culling, Texturing and shading those pixels are a much bigger factor on performance. This is why xbox imo is better suited with more ways to save on bandwidth or performance in hardware the ps5 has.

Xbox is less traditional then ps5 when it comes to the gpu, as they included some custom features that are meant to be released for pc at some point (future direct x)

But wouldn’t said data throughout matter in that context as well? Culling those polygons efficiently and moving more data/textures as the player moves through the world to maintain performance and speed not just for the current frame, but the frames to follow would be incredibly important would it not? It’s one thing to say the XSX can fill the screen a few times with high polys/textures but it’s maintaining that high throughout to move through a world with no loading that becomes even more important.

Any bottlenecks that arise from any link in the chain—CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD will eventually rear their head with all these polys/textures being pushed. And not only having the ability to push more data through the that pipeline as well as cull the unneeded data faster, should increase the detail and performance that much more because less data has to sit in the RAM to account for where the player could potential go. The faster it can draw textures/polys, the less RAM is wasted on the potential places a player goes in the environment. It goes back to closing that gap from having the next possible 30 seconds to 1 minute in RAM to only having 1-2 seconds in RAM, thereby utilizing all that data for what’s ACTUALLY in front of the player instead of what he COULD see.

Having more CUs and more TFs begins to have diminishing returns once you hit certain resolutions in a higher poly/data scenario when you don’t have the means to keep the data flowing as efficiently both ways. And as far as custom, do you mean standard RDNA 2? Because that’s basically what Microsoft is saying. They have a few customizations, but it doesn’t seem that much attention was devoted to limiting bottlenecks and pushing data throughput. The speeds they’re pushing are from mid-level Gen 3 SSD, that was essentially purchased off the shelf.. vs a completely customized SSD controller and culling features that basic RDNA 2 doesn’t have. Their goal was largely to kill 2 birds with one stone—a decent PC-like console to help development with PC market, while also creating a cloud-based server architecture to help their cloud-services. It’s rarely true (if ever) that trying to do two things well beats a system that is focused on doing one thing great.

As this generation progresses and new engines are created, how a system be it a PC, XSX, or PS5 uses data will be the largest factor for performance and detail. And I would argue PS5 has the advantage there from just a sheer data throughout number, without even factoring in all the other customizations they have.

 

[SlimySnake]

it looks better than outriders and most cross gen games ive seen so far.

animation needs work but its not an AAA game and animation is very hard to get right.

 

[oldergamer]

Actually, the more traditional console is definitely the Series X here. PS5 is the one with the most meaningful advanced features like real time variable frequency depending on workload (ensuring optimal use of power available at any time on CPU and GPU) or custom I/O and SSD, which makes for unmatched I/O speed and higher definition asset streaming (even compared to PC world).

Variable frequency isn't an innovation and its been achieved before in GPU's. Both consoles have a custom I/O

 

[assurdum]

Xbox is less traditional then ps5 when it comes to the gpu, as they included some custom features that are meant to be released for pc at some point (future direct x)

 

[oldergamer]

Nope the games we've seen have shown a bottleneck on series x design the polygon throughout matters! We've seen assassins creed have more detail like grass on ps5 than series x, hitman 3 drop frames in scenarios with more grass on screen, dirt 5 has less tessellation and texture streaming issues on series x than ps5, nba 2k21 dropping frames when more alpha effects are on screen on series x and not problem on ps5, recently outriders having a stable fps on ps5 and better texture filtering while flactuating during action on series x, these are all traditional games and they all show that faster clocks on ps5 help when lots of polygons are on screen and variable clocks keep stable frame rates.

The games don't show a bottleneck, that's your interpretation. We've already seen a number of examples where further optimization was needed on series X to achieve better performance. If it were "traditional" that would not be required to the same extent. All of the items you mentioned were fixed or addressed in later patches. NBA2k players sweat more on Xbox then they do on PS5.

Everything you listed is more anecdotal then proof of a bottleneck.

 

[oldergamer]

Sure cover your eye's, plug your ear's. It's not going to change any actual facts. You show me a single game where geometry throughput is a bottleneck.

 

[assurdum]

Sure cover your eye's, plug your ear's. It's not going to change any actual facts. You show me a single game where geometry throughput is a bottleneck.

There are not facts. It's the same shitty PR marketing words of MS. The only advantage series X could have it's when CUs is more involved, outside that it's all useless chats and blabla

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Variable frequency isn't an innovation and its been achieved before in GPU's. Both consoles have a custom I/O

workload based variable frequency is definitley what i'd call an innovation

 

[oldergamer]

But wouldn’t said data throughout matter in that context as well? Culling those polygons efficiently and moving more data/textures as the player moves through the world to maintain performance and speed not just for the current frame, but the frames to follow would be incredibly important would it not? It’s one thing to say the XSX can fill the screen a few times with high polys/textures but it’s maintaining that high throughout to move through a world with no loading that becomes even more important.

Any bottlenecks that arise from any link in the chain—CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD will eventually rear their head with all these polys/textures being pushed. And not only having the ability to push more data through the that pipeline as well as cull the unneeded data faster, should increase the detail and performance that much more because less data has to sit in the RAM to account for where the player could potential go. The faster it can draw textures/polys, the less RAM is wasted on the potential places a player goes in the environment. It goes back to closing that gap from having the next possible 30 seconds to 1 minute in RAM to only having 1-2 seconds in RAM, thereby utilizing all that data for what’s ACTUALLY in front of the player instead of what he COULD see.

Having more CUs and more TFs begins to have diminishing returns once you hit certain resolutions in a higher poly/data scenario when you don’t have the means to keep the data flowing as efficiently both ways. And as far as custom, do you mean standard RDNA 2? Because that’s basically what Microsoft is saying. They have a few customizations, but it doesn’t seem that much attention was devoted to limiting bottlenecks and pushing data throughput. The speeds they’re pushing are from mid-level Gen 3 SSD, that was essentially purchased off the shelf.. vs a completely customized SSD controller and culling features that basic RDNA 2 doesn’t have. Their goal was largely to kill 2 birds with one stone—a decent PC-like console to help development with PC market, while also creating a cloud-based server architecture to help their cloud-services. It’s rarely true (if ever) that trying to do two things well beats a system that is focused on doing one thing great.

As this generation progresses and new engines are created, how a system be it a PC, XSX, or PS5 uses data will be the largest factor for performance and detail. And I would argue PS5 has the advantage there from just a sheer data throughout number, without even factoring in all the other customizations they have.

We're talking throughput though, not just streaming data, culling what isn't needed should net you a performance gain from not processing it. People here are always throwing out words like "geometry throughput" without having context. So me one game on either console that is struggling with geometry. The capabilities of both consoles is more then enough to draw millions of micro poly's. If that is the case, what makes anything think there is a potential throughput issue?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

That's the thing, i was also seeing GEs (essentially) to be responsible for hardware culling and since PS5's GE is 22% faster and further customized to be fully programmable to do culling earlier in the pipeline, i was considering PS5 to be convincingly more capable at it.

Don't conflate the extended functionality of the PS5 GE, i.e. customisations in the Next-Gen Geometry (NNG) fast path, with the hardware culling unit that sits in the traditional fixed-function geometry processing steps of the traditional render path.

You can't take credit for PS5's 22% clocks for culling versus the XSX when using the NGG fast path and primitive shaders to cull earlier in the pipeline, because when using the NGG fast path the fixed function culling unit it not used. It sits on the traditional data path which is independent.

When using the NGG fast path culling is done on the shader cores. So like I said, the actual act of culling triangles on PS5 in this mode will be faster than the FF hardware, but a little slower than the XSX; however, the PS5 has the advantage that it can potentially cull earlier.

Your counter argument of using CUs/compute resources for culling seems a bit counter untiutive to me but i lack knowledge about the matter, i need to do some research about it. Thanks.

It only seems counter-intuitive because I think you're thinking that the extended functionality of the PS5 GE using the NGG fast path includes more fixed function hardware for culling, which it doesn't. Culling is done on the shader cores because it's both faster and more flexible, so culling can also be done in a smarter more targeted way. It's absolutely more intuitive to do it on the shader cores because they are really the most logical place to perform such workloads, precisely for the aforementioned reasons.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Sure cover your eye's, plug your ear's. It's not going to change any actual facts. You show me a single game where geometry throughput is a bottleneck.

We're already in next-gen, sure current games are not geometry intense but within the next 2 years, more games will move exclusively to next-gen engines which will look significantly better, this will be done through a number of factors such as higher resolution textures and ray-tracing, but more importantly higher polygon/triangle geometry just like what we saw in UE5 (which many games will adopt). So the ability to draw and render geometry efficiently will be a major factor in performance as well as efficient usage of RAM.

 

[oldergamer]

workload based variable frequency is definitley what i'd call an innovation

Pretty certain it's been done before. just not in a console.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Pretty certain it's been done before. just not in a console.

Not before 2020 it wasn't

The traditional method was based on temperature

 

[assurdum]

Pretty certain it's been done before. just not in a console.

If ps5 is not innovative in some way, series X is not absolutely in any

 

[oldergamer]

We're already in next-gen, sure current games are not geometry intense but within the next 2 years, more games will move exclusively to next-gen engines which will look significantly better, this will be done through a number of factors such as higher resolution textures and ray-tracing, but more importantly higher polygon/triangle geometry just like what we saw in UE5 (which many games will adopt). So the ability to draw and render geometry efficiently will be a major factor in performance as well as efficient usage of RAM.

i think that is why there are other features that then become more important. once you can draw enough poly's ( with polys smaller then a pixel being less optimal to performance ) it then becomes more important what you do to keep performance. I don't think you will ever see a game achieve max poly throughput in a real world scenario on these consoles.

 

[oldergamer]

If ps5 is not innovative in some way, series X is not absolutely in any

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[abel empire]

The games don't show a bottleneck, that's your interpretation. We've already seen a number of examples where further optimization was needed on series X to achieve better performance. If it were "traditional" that would not be required to the same extent. All of the items you mentioned were fixed or addressed in later patches. NBA2k players sweat more on Xbox then they do on PS5.

Everything you listed is more anecdotal then proof of a bottleneck.

This is a fantastical lie dirt 5 has fixed some of the issues but they still persist texture streaming is still a problem and tessellation nba 2k on series x has reduced alpha transparencies it hasn't fixed the problem and no they don't sweat more on series x than ps5 where is this proof. As all Xbox fanboys you turn to lies when u fail to explain things. The fact is we've seen Xbox drop frames than ps5 in scenes with more effect on screen in not one but many games this isn't because of tools or covid19 or ebola it's simply a fact of life the series x is botllenecked on things that require higher clock rates than ps5.

 

[SlimySnake]

Xbox is less traditional then ps5 when it comes to the gpu, as they included some custom features that are meant to be released for pc at some point (future direct x)

surely that would would make it MORE traditional, no? the fact that they are part of the traditional RDNA 2 feature set that every PC RDNA 2.0 card would get?

The features you are talking about are VRS, Mesh Shaders and Sampler feedback. All part of the dx 12 feature suite. I think that makes xbox more advanced, but I dont know if it makes it less traditional/custom.

The PS5's IO design is far more custom and unlike anything on PC or consoles before it. The CPU and the GPU are fairly PC like, but the GPU clocks is way beyond anything we saw on consoles. The way they are handling power is also very unique and while im not a big fan of this low CU high yet variable clock design, I really dont understand how it can be more traditional than the fixed wide and slow approach MS has taken.

Lastly, the cooling solution is absolutely insane with liquid metal being used instead of traditional thermal paste. The heatsink is fairly traditional compared to say vapor chamber cooling, but that thing is so massive and able to cool such a power intensive GPU that its anything but traditional.

If anything I think the PS5 is way too custom, way too overengineered. They wanted a $399 console so went with a smaller GPU. Then realized to hit their 10+ tflops target they would need to push the clocks as high as they can. But increasing clocks disproportionately increases power consumption so they ended up needing a massive heatsink and an entirely new way of managing power loads on the GPU/APU. I think their cooling solution is so good they couldve easily cooled a 52 CU 2.0 ghz GPU within the same power budget. thats 13.8 tflops right there.

In the end, they had to sell the console at $499 anyway. Shouldve just gone with a more traditional, wide and slow GPU with fixed clocks.

 

[oldergamer]

This is a fantastical lie dirt 5 has fixed some of the issues but they still persist texture streaming is still a problem and tessellation nba 2k on series x has reduced alpha transparencies it hasn't fixed the problem and no they don't sweat more on series x than ps5 where is this proof. As all Xbox fanboys you turn to lies when u fail to explain things. The fact is we've seen Xbox drop frames than ps5 in scenes with more effect on screen in not one but many games this isn't because of tools or covid19 or ebola it's simply a fact of life the series x is botllenecked on things that require higher clock rates than ps5.

Again, you have no proof of any the things you claim. You can call it a fantastical lie all you want. There is no issue with tesselation on NBA2K. That is made up BS. Reduced transparencies where and on what game? all if this is anedotal. Go back to the comparisons, and there are videos that show the players sweating more on Xbox then PS5. You've seen both consoles drop frames in different scenarios. Again performance on launch games isn't a beacon of truth,

 

[oldergamer]

surely that would would make it MORE traditional, no? the fact that they are part of the traditional RDNA 2 feature set that every PC RDNA 2.0 card would get?

The features you are talking about are VRS, Mesh Shaders and Sampler feedback. All part of the dx 12 feature suite. I think that makes xbox more advanced, but I dont know if it makes it less traditional/custom.

The PS5's IO design is far more custom and unlike anything on PC or consoles before it. The CPU and the GPU are fairly PC like, but the GPU clocks is way beyond anything we saw on consoles. The way they are handling power is also very unique and while im not a big fan of this low CU high yet variable clock design, I really dont understand how it can be more traditional than the fixed wide and slow approach MS has taken.

Lastly, the cooling solution is absolutely insane with liquid metal being used instead of traditional thermal paste. The heatsink is fairly traditional compared to say vapor chamber cooling, but that thing is so massive and able to cool such a power intensive GPU that its anything but traditional.

If anything I think the PS5 is way too custom, way too overengineered. They wanted a $399 console so went with a smaller GPU. Then realized to hit their 10+ tflops target they would need to push the clocks as high as they can. But increasing clocks disproportionately increases power consumption so they ended up needing a massive heatsink and an entirely new way of managing power loads on the GPU/APU. I think their cooling solution is so good they couldve easily cooled a 52 CU 2.0 ghz GPU within the same power budget. thats 13.8 tflops right there.

In the end, they had to sell the console at $499 anyway. Shouldve just gone with a more traditional, wide and slow GPU with fixed clocks.

I would say no to that.

you keep going back to the I/O when both consoles have custom components not seen in PC hardware ( yet). They both have compression and decompression hardware, they both tailor solutions to NVME drives. Take that one part away from both, and which has the more traditional architecture?

 

[ErRor88]

 

[abel empire]

Again, you have no proof of any the things you claim. You can call it a fantastical lie all you want. There is no issue with tesselation on NBA2K. That is made up BS. Reduced transparencies where and on what game? all if this is anedotal. Go back to the comparisons, and there are videos that show the players sweating more on Xbox then PS5. You've seen both consoles drop frames in different scenarios. Again performance on launch games isn't a beacon of truth,

There is no video that shows more sweat on series x than ps5 nba 2k and you keep lying again and again I didn't say nba ha don't tessellation problems I said dirt 5. Learn to read properly. And yes nba2k removed some alpha transparencies on series x to hold the frame rate. The proof is on countless from digital foundry and nx gamer most games run better when more stuff is inn screen on ps5.