• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Feb 25, 2020
993
2,238
325
O'dium's description earlier is interesting. I was always under the impression that devs still have to make design decisions with hardware based on lowest common denominator. A dev decides he wants to push out full environmental destruction unlike anything seen before in a game but can't do it on a console that's much weaker. They scrap the design decision and go with more middle ground to accommodate the lower console since it's only way it can exist there and the higher console does not get their full power potential unlocked.

What happens if Microsoft also puts very strict stipulations in for their certifications to keep games in line? In the past didn't both consoles have requirements where they couldn't use certain features to give the other console a big advantage hardware wise on a multiplatform title? It's not realistic to think Microsoft would throw strict certification around to prevent messes on Lockhart? Maybe I'm not fully understanding what O'dium is saying but it seems hard to believe a console that is speculatively nearly 3x more powerful is not held back by the lowest common denominator console. I guess it depends if it's on the same architecture as we think then it would just downclocked in power.

Not saying you're lying or wrong but I guess I just don't understand how on a technical level. Yeah, I get that you can always lower resolution, use dynamic resolutions, lower the graphics effects but do devs do that now? It sure as hell seems like they'd rather give you a 20fps game that's gorgeous to look at than make it look like Nioh and run at a consistent 60fps. Maybe that's a philosophy difference between Western and Japanese devs because Western devs love giving you shitty performance for eyegasms rather than toning a game down graphically for better performance.
Again, this is just chatting without knowing the base of Lockhart hardware. Tflops won't make your console so different from another for certain, if it has the same baseline. If Lockhart have SSD, Zen tech, RDNA2, GDDR6 then we are just talking about uglier games on that platform, graphics and resolution can scale a lot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem
Oct 26, 2018
11,231
14,029
595
Here you are playing victim again. Oh showing off that you have a bigger dick with your collection that you probably got for free or didn't even pay for with your money? Nobody gives a shit. Your site is biased and it clearly shows. Your name is tied with Digital Foundry, deal with it. If you had any ounce of ethic you would've spoke up but no you can't stand up to your bosses who puts food on your table. For a guy that dissects games, you can't even tell me that AMD's presentation clearly meant RDNA 2 for both consoles? Are you fucking kidding me. Stop being disingenuous. Go play victim on ree where they worship you guys.
You can reply when your ban is done or not. Don't care if you do or not.

But if you do and right away start typing, can you you just stop for a second and realize a lot of us are just having fun on gaming boards? Whether or not someone is trolling or an astute believer of hardware specs 1-2-3, who really gives a shit?

It's game console that will cost around $500.

I wonder if you put this much effort into things that cost more like kitchen appliances, cars, home audio gear, or even something mundane like a living room sofa.
 
Last edited:

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
4,009
8,266
635
You underlined the wrong part.

The cheaper XsS will in fact be Xbox biggest seller by a lot and thus will be the so called defacto console for the masses.
Microsoft, doing gamer gods work! Now for a moment of silence for a gen that will be special, special olympics special.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nadojay

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
37,287
62,657
1,170
There’s really a super simple reason for Oberon being a PS5 dev kit at some point.

Navi 2 isn’t ready. But you want devs to have access to the architecture changes instead of being on GCN still.

What do you do....take the 40 cu limit and make a 36cu chip for yields, then clock that thing as high as possible to get close to target specs then let devs work with it. Once Navi 2 is ready for dev kits you replace those units.

Though in all honesty I just think github is a BC mode stress test. So only part of the chip active.
That’s what a lot of us were trying to say when it very first came out, and the narrative pushers wanted to shout that down.

Yet more and more pieces of the puzzle are starting to come together in that possible favor.
 
Last edited:
Feb 25, 2020
993
2,238
325
While commercialy I absolutely see the value of Lockhart, I'm not convinced that 300 vs 500 dollars (likely) are worth it from an "ideological" point of view, it's still a 200 dollars difference in seven years. Unless they designed the hardware to perfectly scale 4K\1080 p no problem, there will be another complication in sight while console enviroment should be as focused as possible, what about SeX Pro when will come out? Three main consoles? Meh.
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
37,287
62,657
1,170
You can reply when your ban is done or not. Don't care if you do or not.

But if you do and right away start typing, can you you just stop for a second and realize a lot of us are just having fun on gaming boards? Whether or not someone is trolling or an astute believer of hardware specs 1-2-3, who really gives a shit?

It's game console that will cost around $500.

I wonder if you put this much effort into things that cost more like kitchen appliances, cars, home audio gear, or even something mundane like a living room sofa.
A forum dedicated to furniture wars. Now that must be a sight to see!
 
Oct 26, 2018
11,231
14,029
595
A forum dedicated to furniture wars. Now that must be a sight to see!
Would be awesome.

My sofa is awesome because it's leather, has 3 seats to it and solid wood frame. Straight from the manufacturer on their web site. There's even a picture of it.

Ya, but according to rumours the sofa I will get will be even better because it has 3.5 seats to it, and the wood frame is 1 millimeter thicker.

That's a rumour. According to a leaked spec list from The Brick, your sofa is actually only 2 seats.

Ya, BUT why would the maker have a wooden base that is thicker if it's only a two-seater? It's got to be 3, maybe even 4 seats wide.

Doesn't matter. The manufacturer's leaked spec list from the salesman said your sofa coming out later this year is 2 seats.

But that sheet is outdated. There's surely a more up to date spec sheet. I spoke to the delivery guy in the shipping bay, who spoke to the clerk who is in charge of dishing out 36-month loans. He said that she said my sofa has a better frame than yours so logically it can't be less than 3 seats.
 
Last edited:

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
4,009
8,266
635
I will quote you

Question. If some developers will make a great looking game 1440p on Series X (that looks near indistinguisable from q 4k image), how would this game run on a 4TF console ? 720 ?
The GPU computational power between 4tf and 12tf is gens apart. That power will be squandered on higher res and precision of effects. Diminishing effects that make things look nicer, but essentially still the same exact game. Freedom to go to the metal on a 12tf GPU to create some serious wizardry is a dead dream.
 

Xaero Gravity

Member
May 12, 2013
13,232
13,015
1,165
Canada Eh
What I meant to say before editing, do I need to own the new CoD or nah?
Nah it's free for everyone, and any XP you unlock through Warzone will be transferred over to the main game and it's battlepass if you ever get it.

Only difference is those who own MW will get the skins they've purchased and unlocked available to use in Warzone, and they get to play a few hours earlier tomorrow.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
37,287
62,657
1,170
Nah it's free for everyone, and any XP you unlock through Warzone will be transferred over to the main game and it's battlepass if you ever get it.

Only difference is those who own MW will get the skins they've purchased and unlocked available to use in Warzone, and they get to play a few hours earlier tomorrow.
Nice! Have not played CoD in forever, but might give this a go!
 

Trainsmove

Member
Jan 6, 2017
120
129
270
That’s a pretty shitty thing to say but you’re probably right. This feels like such a tiny thing compared to everything else going on, though, so fuck it. I will do as you say and leave.

Oh, and not that it matters, but of course PS5 is RDNA2. I never said otherwise. I just hadn’t seen that presentation until today because I was not in town. I expect amazing things from PS5.

If mods are reading, maybe reach out. I’d like to say just delete my account or maybe a temporary ban would be better. This is my final post here. Appreciate the folks that have been kind. If you want to stay in touch, reach out elsewhere.
This is no confirmation of anything and that's just his opinion. He is making the same mistake and Assumption we all are making. And to make this point stick "we don't know if Xsx is 12TF RDNA OR 12TF Gcn = RDNA" I always said it was 12TF RDNA. So I was right and he was wrong. Still waiting for PS5 RDNA2, SONY?
 

-Jay-Rod-

Banned
Dec 31, 2019
65
127
200
it doesn't debunk anything it just at least means that Oberon once was based on navi 10 but then got transitioned over to navi 2x
guys any GPU that claims to be 8K capable gotta be above 12TF period...Sony claiming full support for 8K monitors with the ps5....probably checker boarding like PS4 pro for 8K output and full support for 8K movies
 
Last edited:
Dec 29, 2018
1,467
3,392
595
There’s really a super simple reason for Oberon being a PS5 dev kit at some point.

Navi 2 isn’t ready. But you want devs to have access to the architecture changes instead of being on GCN still.

What do you do....take the 40 cu limit and make a 36cu chip for yields, then clock that thing as high as possible to get close to target specs then let devs work with it. Once Navi 2 is ready for dev kits you replace those units.

Though in all honesty I just think github is a BC mode stress test. So only part of the chip active.
TOO MUCH SENSE in this post its making my head hurt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RasAlGhoul

HawarMiran

Member
Jan 2, 2020
592
2,019
350
guys any GPU that claims to be 8K capable gotta be above 12TF period...Sony claiming full support for 8K monitors with the ps5....probably checker boarding like PS4 pro for 8K output and full support for 8K movies
Yeah I said that before. All the bullet points of Sony and MS sound the same. 8K, ray-tracing, ray-traced audio, SSD, 8 core CPU etc.
 
Dec 29, 2018
1,467
3,392
595
That’s a pretty shitty thing to say but you’re probably right. This feels like such a tiny thing compared to everything else going on, though, so fuck it. I will do as you say and leave.

Oh, and not that it matters, but of course PS5 is RDNA2. I never said otherwise. I just hadn’t seen that presentation until today because I was not in town. I expect amazing things from PS5.

If mods are reading, maybe reach out. I’d like to say just delete my account or maybe a temporary ban would be better. This is my final post here. Appreciate the folks that have been kind. If you want to stay in touch, reach out elsewhere.
Lol ?
1) I hate that people get to you soo easily. There are shitty people everywhere. People who's sole aim in life is to be a walking penis to piss all over everything.
2) You leaving because of said walking penises is playing right into their hands.

Just report the fuckers to the mods and quite being a little bitch. I say this with the utmost respect. The world is full of shitty people. You can't let their shittyness put you off. Be the better person and tell them to get fucked and report them.

EDIT:

Just to add. I've always been a huge fan of your work and Digital Foundry. I'm especially happy to see you on these forums. Please reconsider your stance on leaving. There are people here who appreciate your views and you're most welcome here to contribute to this hobby we love.
Don't take offence to my post. It's not intended to come across as that. I'm merely frustrated that good people just give in to bully's and online trolls so easily. It happens far too often and good people are pushed away and i'd hate for this to happen to you.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2018
11,231
14,029
595
That’s a pretty shitty thing to say but you’re probably right. This feels like such a tiny thing compared to everything else going on, though, so fuck it. I will do as you say and leave.

Oh, and not that it matters, but of course PS5 is RDNA2. I never said otherwise. I just hadn’t seen that presentation until today because I was not in town. I expect amazing things from PS5.

If mods are reading, maybe reach out. I’d like to say just delete my account or maybe a temporary ban would be better. This is my final post here. Appreciate the folks that have been kind. If you want to stay in touch, reach out elsewhere.
You were responding to arguably the most biased Sony fan on this site. Just make a mental note anytime you see that user name, it's Sony or nothing. In which you'll just brush it off going forward.

Now if you want him giving you high fives when he's back, just do a post saying there's rumour PS5 will be 13TF.
 

MetalAlien

Member
Mar 6, 2005
12,576
8,855
1,880
Here you are playing victim again. Oh showing off that you have a bigger dick with your collection that you probably got for free or didn't even pay for with your money? Nobody gives a shit. Your site is biased and it clearly shows. Your name is tied with Digital Foundry, deal with it. If you had any ounce of ethic you would've spoke up but no you can't stand up to your bosses who puts food on your table. For a guy that dissects games, you can't even tell me that AMD's presentation clearly meant RDNA 2 for both consoles? Are you fucking kidding me. Stop being disingenuous. Go play victim on ree where they worship you guys.
 

Handy Fake

Member
Mar 2, 2014
4,082
2,215
680
Sunderland
Lol
1) I hate that people get to you soo easily. There are shitty people everywhere. People who's sole aim in life is to be a walking penis to piss all over everything.
2) You leaving because of said walking penises is playing right into their hands.

Just report the fuckers to the mods and quite being a little bitch. I say this with the utmost respect. The world is full of shitty people. You can't let their shittyness put you off. Be the better person and tell them to get fucked and report them.
Um. Godspeed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
Jun 11, 2018
5,058
12,259
640
Lol
1) I hate that people get to you soo easily. There are shitty people everywhere. People who's sole aim in life is to be a walking penis to piss all over everything.
2) You leaving because of said walking penises is playing right into their hands.

Just report the fuckers to the mods and quite being a little bitch. I say this with the utmost respect. The world is full of shitty people. You can't let their shittyness put you off. Be the better person and tell them to get fucked and report them.
🙄
 

44alltheway

Member
May 19, 2019
370
771
335
So it seems like every Tuesday people will make up a reason for Sony to drop some next gen news.... Here's my idea

They will release a Wired article tomorrow on the same day Ori's review scores come out (which will be above 90 imo, game looks sick!)
 

siekro1983

Banned
Jan 31, 2020
867
777
305
Lol ?
1) I hate that people get to you soo easily. There are shitty people everywhere. People who's sole aim in life is to be a walking penis to piss all over everything.
2) You leaving because of said walking penises is playing right into their hands.

Just report the fuckers to the mods and quite being a little bitch. I say this with the utmost respect. The world is full of shitty people. You can't let their shittyness put you off. Be the better person and tell them to get fucked and report them.

EDIT:

Just to add. I've always been a huge fan of your work and Digital Foundry. I'm especially happy to see you on these forums. Please reconsider your stance on leaving. There are people here who appreciate your views and you're most welcome here to contribute to this hobby we love.
Don't take offence to my post. It's not intended to come across as that. I'm merely frustrated that good people just give in to bully's and online trolls so easily. It happens far too often and good people are pushed away and i'd hate for this to happen to you.
i think the part about being a little bitch is a little too much.
 

Lng0004

Member
Nov 15, 2013
213
47
410
What he needs is not > than what we need. What he needs should be what we all need. That should be the right to be treated with respect. There is no excuse for treating another The way he was treated. None.

Edit: I want to point out I agree with what you wrote right up to that one sentence about what he needs >what we need.
That was a response to OP's "we need posters like you." So my sentiment still hold true. His needs > "our" needs for posters like him. But anyway, I digress.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Darklor01

Gamernyc78

Banned
Jun 11, 2018
5,058
12,259
640
Lol ?
1) I hate that people get to you soo easily. There are shitty people everywhere. People who's sole aim in life is to be a walking penis to piss all over everything.
2) You leaving because of said walking penises is playing right into their hands.

Just report the fuckers to the mods and quite being a little bitch. I say this with the utmost respect. The world is full of shitty people. You can't let their shittyness put you off. Be the better person and tell them to get fucked and report them.

EDIT:

Just to add. I've always been a huge fan of your work and Digital Foundry. I'm especially happy to see you on these forums. Please reconsider your stance on leaving. There are people here who appreciate your views and you're most welcome here to contribute to this hobby we love.
Don't take offence to my post. It's not intended to come across as that. I'm merely frustrated that good people just give in to bully's and online trolls so easily. It happens far too often and good people are pushed away and i'd hate for this to happen to you.
So you think everything that demi said was hollow?? I don't and it's true this dude has cried about leaving a site before just because someone went a little hard at him. Like come on 🤦‍♂️ I agree with alot of what demi said he just shouldn't have conveyed it in tht manner.
 
Last edited:

Sinthor

Gold Member
Jun 6, 2013
742
2,303
775
Phoenix, AZ.
www.woodchuckproductions.net
Because none of us actually knew what RDNA2 was exactly? Don't tell me you weren't among the people who were absolutely sure RDNA2 was exclusive to 7nm EUV, because that's what 99% of people in this thread were thinking for the longest time. The common thread of thought was that the systems would most likely be 7nm, and AMD's little graphic placing '7nm' above RDNA2 at the conference just caused some of us to assert that position even if the naming change wasn't for what most logically assumed upon seeing it.

In fact prior to AMD's conference I thought BOTH systems would be RDNA1 with large amount of RDNA2 features customized to their APUs, because there were a few other posters claiming RDNA2 as a feature set standard that was node-agnostic. Which is still partly true; both APUs aren't going to be exactly like the PC RDNA2 GPU cards AMD will launch later this year.

It's only been after that conference where we got clarification directly that RDNA2's 7nm node reference in the slides was down to nomenclature, not that it is actually a 7nm process. And that's when I accepted that both systems must be on EUV for the GPUs.

And from there I've been able to look at Oberon in hindsight and deduce that it is pretty much an RNDA2 chip since it and Ariel are the two PS5 GPUs we've found data on (from AMD's own databases btw, regardless of what platform or services AMD seems to be using to store (likely copies) of the results) and E0 has a log date of December 2019, which matches up pretty well with the rumors of the then-latest PS5 devkit around some time in January.

So unless there's yet another Oberon revision with a log date of January this year that got out just in time with that recent dev kit, then by and large it means Oberon has been an RDNA2 chip since at least E0, but probably even longer than that honestly. Not hard to assume, either, if Microsoft has supposedly been further behind in dev kits overall yet had a semi-final APU shot of an obviously large APU (larger than one having a 40CU GPU at any case) right in time for CES.

Honestly I never even paid attention to the Navi10 listing in Rogame's tweets, either, but even that can be rationalized as either referring to an earlier Oberon revision, or not referencing Oberon at all, rather results for Ariel iGPU profile regression using an Ariel testlist. I was never pushing Oberon (or by relation, PS5) as an RDNA1 chip without ALSO speculating XSX was an RDNA1 chip (in fact I was speculating that even after MS's XSX info reveal that Monday a week or so back!), and this was all because of non-clarity by AMD on what RDNA2 actually entailed besides a few known features like RT, VRR and VRS.

For the longest time my thought was both systems would be on 7nm and thus RDNA1 but customizing many RDNA2 features to their APU silicon, which wasn't and probably still isn't a crazy thought to have; both Sony and MS have heavily customized their console chips in the past going even as far back as their respective first consoles.

I don't have enough time to search my older comments so you'll just have to take me at my word on this Just know there's never been any nefarious agenda with me when it's come to referencing any of the Github data or testing data from sources like Rogame, Komachi etc. when discussing PS5. I just reference that info because it's hard data, has a consistent pattern, related data (such as existence of other GPUs and chips in AMD's product line) being more or less verified of its accuracy and existence in other cards and products surfacing using chips reflecting that data and benchmarks precisely, and has a time scale that can be followed. All of which is very important to me in discussing next-gen even if some of that data ends up outdated.

It's not my only reference point in terms of sources when talking about next-gen but it's arguably the most pertinent IMHO, and there's several ways it actually lines up with several insider claims as well including Jason, Matt, Klee, Osiris, Heisenberg you name it. At least the ones that have a bit more context to them, anyhow, regarding the next-gen platforms.
Nice explanation. I for one, don't mind longer posts when they are informative or contain an interesting opinion. So I appreciate the effort it takes to write those. Thanks!
 

ethomaz

Member
Mar 19, 2013
31,825
17,117
1,025
38
Brazil
I kind agree with demigod demigod
While he was harsh I understand that as a employee of Digital Foundry you should put your voice to make it a better place.

It is shameful that any bad PS5 rumor become first page there in less than 24hours while any positive news take weeks if ever posted there.

I know MS pays to make the “reveal”... it is fine and I believe they should continue giving first news from MS.

But they need to take the other e serious without bias too.

Dark is part of that no matter anybody tries to spin it or act like victim.

Said that you were too harsh with your frustration Demi... I’m frustrated too but a bit of politely is always good ;)

BTW it is not the firsttime that we put in the table that there is something wrong with DF and it becoming frustrating... I should prefer to DF never cover PlayStation news anymore if that continues.
 
Last edited:

Gamernyc78

Banned
Jun 11, 2018
5,058
12,259
640
I kind agree with demigod demigod
While he was harsh I understand that as a employee of Digital Foundry you should put your voice to make it a better place.

It is shameful that any bad PS5 rumor become first page there in less than 24hours while any positive news take weeks if ever posted there.

I know MS pays to make the “reveal”... it is fine and I believe they should continue giving first news from MS.

But they need to take the other aide serious without bias too.

Dark is part of that no matter anybody tries to spin it or act like victim.

Said that you were too harsh with your frustration Demi... I’m frustrated too but a bit of politely is always good ;)
🔥🔥🔥🔥Alot of ppl on here feel tht way and it isn't a coincidence.
 

HawarMiran

Member
Jan 2, 2020
592
2,019
350
So you think everything that demi said was hollow?? I don't and it's true this dude has cried about leaving a site before just because someone went a little hard at him. Like come on 🤦‍♂️ I agree with alot of what demi said he just shouldn't have conveyed it in tht manner.
I mean you and I are some anonymous users on the internet and don't encounter stuff like that. that digital foundry guy witnesses this a lot probably. everyone takes this sort of shit differently. I would ignore people who talk to me like that or I would go all out and curse the shit out of them. He on the other hand seems sensitive. Nevertheless that message to him by demigod was on the brink of lunacy
 
  • Like
Reactions: pawel86ck
Dec 29, 2018
1,467
3,392
595
i think the part about being a little bitch is a little too much.
Yes its a bit harsh and i did edit my post to add more to what i mean. I said what i said in good faith and yes i could have used a better term.

I did not delete that part of my message because i don't want people to have a negative impression that i stealth edit my posts so i rather leave it up as is. I don't want to hide behind stealth edits.