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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Bo_Hazem

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Salalah, Oman
Oh ok. That would be a hard sell though. But I get your point now.



You can blame least common denominator for that.

Asset streaming WILL SHOW ADVANTAGE if it's taken advantage of. That's what I get from the devs' statements hyped about it.

Of course devs can make 2.4gb/s work if that's the common denominator. They can even work for 20gb/s (PS4 spider-man). But we're talking about the advantage.

The point is that they are stuck to that (even the 1st part devs), unless, like you said, they sell you an expansion that is mandatory to play the game.

The best part of it that it's done automatically, no efforts from the devs. Assets stream when needed in less than a blink of an eye. That's magic.
 

xHunter

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I never made fun of PS5 as a console and never once said it was a bad console, my point it has inferior specs in some regards are factual and some folks here are getting triggered by that. I also never downplayed how fast SSD is on PS5 is, I only make fun of those who seem to think SSD will make up that GPU difference and hype it up to more than it is. And it's cute of you to count amount of messages I have, I'm glad I have such an avid follower 😆.
took me literally 10 seconds to count your posts, since its quite easy if you look at your recent content on your profile and do the math. You dont have to be an avid follower to calculate 8*25.

Edit: this is my last post for now, i explained why i thought you were a fanboy, dont want to derail the thread any further
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Salalah, Oman
Correct. 22gb/s using Kraken compression.

Source/Exact moment:


HOLY COW! That Kraken chip power is equivalent to 9x ZEN 2 cores! THAT'S INSANE.

 
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I think (keyword: 'think' = my opinion) that he's referring to his previous claims. I just now came to realization that on one of the first AMD's keynotes this year, they said that RDNA has a 50% advantage over GCN architecture...

BG's joke TFlops number for PS5 was always 13.8.

9.2 TF x 1.5(50% increase) equals....... yup 13.8


Anywho, that's just what I can think of. Let's wait for BGs to reply.


Edit: grammar
From where this X1.5(50% increase) comes from.
 

semicool

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They both most likely use bog standard RDNA2 which is a modification to the TMU that runs at performance linear to the CU count and clock of the GPU core. The XSX is about 18% more powerful RT wise.
It sounds like the XSX has extra, dedicated hardware in addition to the full CUs. Can you address the quotes? How do you parse, interpret the additional what Gossen is saying?
 
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It appears from the presentation that the RT solutions from ps5 compared to XSX is different. In summary, appears to be superior on the XSX.


Cerny says it's built into the cu ie...would be limited by the CUs, not dedicated but accelerated by the enhanced CU hardware. Effectively, with RT, the ps5 CUs get used for that purpose.

Whereas in the DF article on Eurogamer Andrew Gossen said the XSX was separate..ie .dedicated, hence the 25 TF number he stated because it runs separate and in parallel. Like it's a separate piece of hardware. Sounds much stronger in RT than ps5 because it can run in parallel non the X. Like "could have been done in shaders"(but isn't like it's done in the ps5", "offloaded onto dedicated hardware" and "run in parallel with full performance"(separate, in addition to, unlike ps5),...which he States is why he is saying 25TFs if ran with Ray tracing on.

I quote, and note the differences vs ps5:

"Without hardware acceleration, this work could have been done in the shaders, but would have consumed over 13 TFLOPs alone," says Andrew Goossen. "For the Series X, this work is offloaded onto dedicated hardware and the shader can continue to run in parallel with full performance. In other words, Series X can effectively tap the equivalent of well over 25 TFLOPs of performance while ray tracing."
Still, PS5 has officially hardware acceleration RT, which is exactly how Andrew Goossen name the SeX solution too. So hardware acceleration is not about dedicated hardware in parallel with the standard one?
But in this sense, how is the ""25 TF" even a thing on SeX and not on PS5 if Goossen directly link it to hardware acceleration which PS5 officially has?
Also, without hardware acceleration, that level of RT would require 13 TF, his own words. So, how is PS5 even capable in the slightest of RT if it stops at 10 TF? Why even include it?
This probably are incredibly naive questions, I know.
 
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Reindeer

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without Sony exclusives, AAA are pure mediocrity. FOR ME.
Red Dead Redemption, Doom, FF7 Remake, Resident Evil 7, Resident Evil 2 Remake, Witcher 3, Sekiro, Monster Hunter, Yakuza series, Wolfenstein, Hellblade, Tomb Raider, Titanfall 2, MK11, DMC5, Batman Arkham Knight, Metro Exodus, Control and so on and so forth.

Yeah, third party AAA games have been very mediocre this gen...
 
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Gamernyc78

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I love how the entire game press pretends like all Xbox One games will be playable on Xbox Series X. But Microsoft is like “we don’t know yet how many, def not all at launch“ and no one says shit.
Sony says the exact same shit and everyone is like “fuck you Sony” lol it’s so dumb. Both consoles will probably play most last gen games over the next few years. Some won’t.

Yup this is the same Sony message "most but not all" so wtf are ppl going on about in here? Selective reading. Reading comprehension is indeed lost on many.
 

Sycomunkee

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You're crazy if you think you will not have to wait at least 1-2 seconds on PS5.
I don't not think that, but I also expect 1st party studios to take full advantage of the SSD the way it was meant to be used. However as the generation progresses, I expect load times to get longer on the PS5 simply due to the fact games will get bigger, better, and have more fidelity. Sony and Microsoft both have a way with falling short as generations progress.
 

bhunachicken

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As someone who will still be on 1080p for the foreseeable future (TV is 1080p, no reason to upgrade unless it breaks), I'm expecting to get 1080p @ 60fps on all PS5 titles.

Something that has me excited is that the PS4 BC games will apparently benefit from performance boosts. Could finally see Bloodborne at a stable 60fps.

Also, being on a base PS4, I don't have access to things like God of Wars 60fps in pro mode. I imagine I'll get to enable that..?

Also, also: does anyone yet know how much RAM the PS5 is reserving for the OS? Maybe 2.5GB, like the Xbox Series X? Was there any mention of a dedicated 1-2GB as speculated, leaving the full 16GB for developers? Or is that now wishful thinking?
 
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Red Dead Redemption, Doom, FF7 Remake, Resident Evil 7, Resident Evil 2 Remake, Witcher 3, Sekiro, Monster Hunter, Yakuza series, Wolfenstein, Hellblade, Tomb Raider, Titanfall 2, MK11, DMC5, Batman Arkham Knight, Metro Exodus, Control and so on and so forth.

Yeah, third party AAA games have been very mediocre this gen...
RDR2 follows some of the "life sim" shits that I didn't like in GTA V too, plus two times input lag of an already high input lag title like Uncharted 4 is crazy. Doom I like it, but I didn't remember it for long. FF7 Remake and Yakuza 7 are temporary PS4 exclusives, but it's different, true. Still, I don't trust Nomura IN THE SLIGHEST after KH 3 and FF XV (others bullshit AAA titles by the way), and no one still played the entire game so it's bold to even include it. Also, others Yakuza titles are barely AAA, they recycle tons of stuff to keep costs in check, Yakuza 6 is the most sold and it reached like 2 milions copies, Hollow Knight sold like 2x that, definetly not a big hit. I like them a lot anyway.
Witcher 3 is one of the most lacking games in terms of pure mechanics, dynamics and interactivity, yawned after 20 hours of following a yellow line on the map. Monster Hunter is probably great, yes.
RE7/2 remake are horrors, I don't care about them in the slighest.
Wolfenstein are definetly good, but I played 2 recently and while I consider it a GREAT shooter it doesn't amaze me anymore, it will not be what I remember of this gen. Not mediocre for sure, you're right.
Hellblade is a cinematic corridor adventure that make Uncharted 4 looks like a PS5 open world, honestly.
Tomb Rider... yeah, didn't like it in the slighest. Very average combat, I.A. and story, no original gameplay hints.
Titanfall 2 is mainly multiplayer, if I need to consider that single player ANY good then I can't put Wolfenstein 2 under 9.9 by comparison, get real. I played tons of far better single player shooter experiences.
MK11... yeah, true, but not my genre.
Batman Arkham Knight made me yawn again after three fucking Batman games, the biggest thing is a car and the expanded open world totally unnecessary.
Control... no idea how that game took 9. Narration style is basically only plain dialogues with no camera works and average animations, destruction is accessory with no strong usage in gameplay, powers are incredibly trivial and lack any development, enemie design and I.A. are basics, the estetic is nice for 10 minutes but not suited for a metroidvania structure which requires a varied pool of visual styles to orient yourself.
Didn't play Metro Exodus yet.
Sekiro is good, yet far away in budget from very big budget titles like Sony exclusives, my point is that it seems that games with giant budgets can't properly deliver aside few others excluding Sony ones (or Nintendo of course).

I'l give you that "mediocre" was a clear hyperbole for some of these games, which have some high quality sides, but as overall experiences they fall in the "another game" I played, mostly, for my tastes of course. But I was talking about me, when I wrote "FOR ME" in the previous post.
 
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Reindeer

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Nope, instant streaming is integrated in the system, meaning more free room for CPU/GPU/RAM. So ALL games will benefit from the ultra fast SSD even if not designed around it, without developers doing anything extra as Cerny expressed.
By now you have a PHD when it comes to how SSD works.

 
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Reindeer

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RDR2 follows some of the "life sim" shits that I didn't like in GTA V too, plus two times input lag of an already high input lag title like Uncharted 4 is crazy. Doom I like it, but I didn't remember it for long. FF7 Remake and Yakuza 7 are temporary PS4 exclusives, but it's different, true. Still, I don't trust Nomura IN THE SLIGHEST after KH 3 and FF XV (others bullshit AAA titles by the way), and no one still played the entire game so it's bold to even include it. Also, others Yakuza titles are barely AAA, they recycle tons of stuff to keep costs in check, Yakuza 6 is the most sold and it reached like 2 milions copies, Hollow Knight sold like 2x that, definetly not a big hit. I like them a lot anyway.
Witcher 3 is one of the most lacking games in terms of pure mechanics, dynamics and interactivity, yawned after 20 hours of following a yellow line on the map. Monster Hunter is probably great, yes.
RE7/2 remake are horrors, I don't care about them in the slighest.
Sekiro is good, yet far away from very big budget titles like Sony exclusives, my point is that it seems that games with giant budgets can't properly deliver.
Wolfenstein are definetly good, but I played 2 recently and while I consider it a GREAT shooter it doesn't amaze me anymore, it will not be what I remember of this gen. Not mediocre for sure, you're right.
Hellblade is a cinematic corridor adventure that make Uncharted 4 looks like a PS5 open world, honestly.
Tomb Rider... yeah, didn't like it in the slighest. Very average combat, I.A. and story, no original gameplay hints.
Titanfall 2 is mainly multiplayer, if I need to consider that single player ANY good than I can't put Wolfenstein 2 under 9.9 by comparison, get real. I played tons of far better single player shooter experiences.
MK11... yeah, true, but not my genre.
Batman Arkham Knight made me yawn again after three fucking Batman games, the biggest thing is a car and the expanded open world totally unnecessary.
Control... no idea how that game took 9. Narration style is basically only plain dialogues with no camera works and average animations, destruction is accessory with no strong usage in gameplay, powers are incredibly trivial and lack any development, enemie design and I.A. are basics, the estetic is nice for 10 minutes but not suited for a metroidvania structure which requires a varied pool of visual styles to orient yourself.
Didn't play Metro Exodus yet.

I'l give you that "mediocre" was a clear hyperbole for some of this games, which have some high quality sides, but as overall experiences they fall in the "another game" I played, mostly, for my tastes of course. But I was talking about me, when I wrote "FOR ME" in the previous post.
Some of those Sony games have the same issues you just mentioned about some of these games. I could start talking about Uncharted 4 potholes, but I really ain't got time for that. Anyway, you seem to be hardcore Sony guy, props to you 👍.
 
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pasterpl

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It sounds like the XSX has extra, dedicated hardware in addition to the full CUs. Can you address the quotes? How do you parse, interpret the additional what Gossen is saying?

so basically we are excited about everything that Cerny said, and making it even better with our interpretations but we are downplaying everything that MS said about RT, VRS, 3D Audio, velocity architecture, BCPacks, DLI etc. ffs this is sad.

power of the ssd, less cus is better, higher clocks on console from manufacturer of PS4 aka jet engine is good as well now....I am guessing that if Sony would announce ps5 with 18cu at 3ghz some here would try to spin it as well (We would get videos of cars vs motorcycle)
 
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As someone who will still be on 1080p for the foreseeable future (TV is 1080p, no reason to upgrade unless it breaks), I'm expecting to get 1080p @ 60fps on all PS5 titles.

Something that has me excited is that the PS4 BC games will apparently benefit from performance boosts. Could finally see Bloodborne at a stable 60fps.

Also, being on a base PS4, I don't have access to things like God of Wars 60fps in pro mode. I imagine I'll get to enable that..?

Also, also: does anyone yet know how much RAM the PS5 is reserving for the OS? Maybe 2.5GB, like the Xbox Series X? Was there any mention of a dedicated 1-2GB as speculated, leaving the full 16GB for developers? Or is that now wishful thinking?
As far as I know there is no GoW on 60 fps, even on Pro in 1080 p gets like 45 fps similar to Dark Souls 3 and such.
 
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Reindeer

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5 seconds of load times once every hour
Vs
shittier resolution and framerate for 59 minutes and 55 seconds every hour.

I would pick longer loading every time.
Imagine people boasting about having to wait 5 seconds less so that they can enjoy inferior visuals 😆😆😆. The unscientific math on this thread is getting insane 😆. That should be a meme 👍😆.
 
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Some of those Sony games have the same issues you just mentioned about some of these games. I could start talking about Uncharted 4 potholes, but I really ain't got time for that. Anyway, you seem to be hardcore Sony guy, props to you 👍.
Yes, Horizon has terrible human I.A. for example, but you can't find that mechanics enemies or that bow combat easily at all, in other games.
It's not about being the best in everything, it's about having overall high quality+something that stands out. Most Sony exclusives are no masterpiece in my eyes, mind you, but that is not my point. TGL has flaws indeed but it will be what I recall in terms of new languages in gaming, not Tomb Rider or Control for sure even if they have more longevity or better camera.
I really, really don't give a fuck who makes the games. One of my favorites games of all times is The Darkness, no PS3 exclusive for sure, and I find the Ratchet & Clank on PS4 mediocre as other titles I mentioned despite being exclusive and despite me being a giant fan of the series.
Never said it isn't my taste anyway, I repeat it.
 
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Audiophile

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It appears from the presentation that the RT solutions from ps5 compared to XSX is different. In summary, appears to be superior on the XSX.


Cerny says it's built into the cu ie...would be limited by the CUs, not dedicated but accelerated by the enhanced CU hardware. Effectively, with RT, the ps5 CUs get used for that purpose.

Whereas in the DF article on Eurogamer Andrew Gossen said the XSX was separate..ie .dedicated, hence the 25 TF number he stated because it runs separate and in parallel. Like it's a separate piece of hardware. Sounds much stronger in RT than ps5 because it can run in parallel non the X. Like "could have been done in shaders"(but isn't like it's done in the ps5", "offloaded onto dedicated hardware" and "run in parallel with full performance"(separate, in addition to, unlike ps5),...which he States is why he is saying 25TFs if ran with Ray tracing on.

I quote, and note the differences vs ps5:

"Without hardware acceleration, this work could have been done in the shaders, but would have consumed over 13 TFLOPs alone," says Andrew Goossen. "For the Series X, this work is offloaded onto dedicated hardware and the shader can continue to run in parallel with full performance. In other words, Series X can effectively tap the equivalent of well over 25 TFLOPs of performance while ray tracing."

XSX Ray tracing sounds much stronger because of additional, separate, dedicated hardware that can run in parallel...ie...25TFs with Ray tracing. Which is like Nvidia s separate RT cores, MS appears to have a separate block of AMD RT cores. It even sounds like MS can use the CUs cores together with the separate AMD RT cores together for the "25TFs" of Ray tracing , which I wonder if the full path Minecraft Ray tracing is doing..ie .using more than just the dedicated block?


And based on the fact that Cerny previously routed rapid pack math..ie..fp16 for the PS4 pro(8TFs fp16 talk anyone?) but but makes no mention similar to Gossen in Cernys tech , dev friendly deep dive in regards to RT(like Gossens 25 TFs) like he does comparing PS4 CUs to Ps5 CUs equivalency...and does state it's built in...makes me think they are different in this way....ps5 built in to CUs vs XSX additional dedicated hardware.

Sony isn't touting RT to the same degree and performance level that MS is.

I am not saying this is for sure, but if I had to say, this appears to be the case based on the details that have been shared so far from both sides.

Both systems use AMD's RDNA2 RT, this is an Intersection Engine in the vicinity of the texture units in the CUs. No additional, separate hardware has been mentioned.

MS' spin on 25TF doesn't entirely hold weight as the Intersection Testing is only one component of RT calculation and the CUs will still have to pull their weight for the other RT operations.

That intersection work alone would have cost 13TF of conventional compute and is now being shifted to those specialised units and so they're saying the 12TF that still remains on the GPU can be added to that 13TF; and I guess that's fair enough to say for marketing but the same ratio will be true of the PS5. And as mentioned above, there are other operations to be performed to calculate RT and that will eat up some of that remaining 12TF (and likely some CPU too).

The XSX will have an RT advantage, but it's the same as their Compute/TF advantage of 16-~20%; which itself is further negated by the faster clockspeeds in the PS5 GPU that will run every other component of the GPU faster and feed the CUs slightly more efficiently too. The real world performance advantage across Compute/RT will almost certainly be in the 8-10% region in favour of the XSX.
 
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Reindeer

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Yes, Horizon has terrible human I.A. for example, but you can't find that mechanics enemies easily at all in other games.
It's not about being the best in everything, it's about having overall high quality+something that stands out. Most Sony exclusives are no masterpiece in my eyes, mind you, but that is not my point. TGL has flaws indeed but it will be what I recall in terms of new languages in gaming, not Tomb Rider or Control for sure even if they have more longevity or better camera.
I really, really don't give a fuck who makes the games. One of my favorites games of all times is The Darkness, no PS3 exclusive for sure, and I find the Ratchet & Clank on PS4 mediocre as other titles I mentioned despite being exclusive and despite me being a giant fan of the series.
Never said it isn't my taste anyway, I repeat it.
Talking about terrible AI, Last of Us 1 had some atrocious AI and it was seen as one of the best games ever made. Now Last Of Us is overall one of the best games out there, but people always seem to overlook some wack stuff about Sony games because their presentation is so on point.
 

Rudius

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I'm talking specifically about resolution here and how people made such big deal because of 16% advantage, same people that now wanna write off 1.87 tflop advantage and talk about SSD. I know not all PS gamers are like this, but the bias is obvious with fans of each system.
In fact 900p to 1080 about 40% diferrence in resolution (number of pixels). A 17% gap would be about 1000p or something close to that to upscale better.

But that would be with fixed resolutions, and in the end of this generation we are seeing more and more devs implement dynamic resolution on their games. I believe that all we are going to see is the dynamic decrease occurring more often in the PS5, or perhaps dropping 10% lower on each axis when the drops occur.
 
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saintjules

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LOL.

I had the video on beside me on another laptop as I was on my work laptop. I keep glancing back and forth trying to do double duty. Those 4-5 pitch black shadows seemed stiff right off the bat.

Then in one of these threads someone said they might be fakes. I immediately went back to watch and even though they seemed like statues, they did move. As you said the guy on the left half off the screen moved the most (his arm). The rest barely moved, but seemed alive.

I didn't go back to re-watch the rest as the video seemed to cut away at his PPT and him only. So I don't know how much more shadow figures were on screen later on.

So you guys are thinking they faked the silhouettes later?

That would be fucking hilarious if true. Even Sony plants can't take listening to him for an hour.

Lol - this is the real talk of the video here - I think they recorded maybe 5 minutes of people actually in the room, sent them off, and then used the canned footage to make it appear they were always there.
 
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Reindeer

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I believe that all we are going to see is the dynamic decrease occurring more often in the PS5, or perhaps dropping 10% lower on each axis when the drops occur.
I can agree with this. A slight resolution decrease isn't the end of the world, but #ResolutinGate I think is inevitable. Gonna be interesting when first games are tested by DF, will have to make lots of popcorn for that.
 
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B_Boss

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Lol. You can enjoy far better experience with 98% of games on PC with far higher resolution and framerate and have much better experience overall 😆. I can also pick PS5 for cheap down the line to play 5-6 must have games. And that library you call mediocre is 98% of the games on your console 😆. Or are you gonna keep replaying 10 hour campaigns of few Sony exclusives for the next 7-8 years? 😆 Here, have some 🧂.

Personally, higher frame rates or even resolution has never, ever necessarily translated to a superior experience for me. I mean it’s cool and all but core experience can either include high res or framerate but it isn’t necessarily a better experience.

Depending on the game I prefer frame rates closer to film (24-30) but I actually like higher frame rates for more fantasy based games. Higher frame rates in some games oftentimes has that “slick” “soap opera” effect that just doesn’t work for me visually but to each their own.
 
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Feb 25, 2020
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Talking about terrible AI, Last of Us 1 had some atrocious AI and it was seen as one of the best games ever made. Now Last Of Us is overall one of the best games out there, but people always seem to overlook some wack stuff about Sony games because their presentation is so on point.
And funny enough The Last of Us isn't even close to be in my favourite games, I actually don't like Naughty Dog THAT much and the Uncharted saga along with it. Played once, crazy set pieces.... Uncharted 4, plot holes or not, make a giant leap in metaphorical story telling compared to 1-2-3 B movies style, also in hub structure, difficulty and shooting, but they are too cinematic for my taste. I vastly prefer 20 hours of Death Stranding's expository dialogues (and eleven hours of actual cutscenes anyway) if then you give me free gameplay.
But again, Sony seems capable to take teams and give them 5 years and dozens of millions to create new IPs that actually stand out overall, something that outside of Sony I find more in stuff like Prey which isn't a big title at all; and this is just their ground work, with PS5 they will continue to add with sequels and new IPs, I can't wait to see the results. They shines also due to the comparison with other AAA producers that vastly suck, as PS4 shined also due to One, but it is what it is.
 
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Reindeer

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Personally, higher frame rates or even resolution has never, ever necessarily translated to a superior experience for me. I mean it’s cool and all but core experience can either include high res or framerate but it isn’t necessarily a better experience.

Depending on the game I prefer frame rates closer to film (24-30) but I actually like higher frame rates for more fantasy based games. Higher frame rates in some games oftentimes has that “slick” “soap opera” effect that just doesn’t work for me visually but to each their own.
Higher framerate improves input lag and response time. This is a scientific fact. You have been gaming on consoles for too long if you can't see or feel that 😆.
 
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Rusco Da Vino

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5 seconds of load times once every hour
Vs
shittier resolution and framerate for 59 minutes and 55 seconds every hour.

I would pick longer loading every time.

I always thought you were a PS guy and now all what you do is to downplay Sony & the PS5 tech.

Have you been playing an stupid astroturfing game all this time? Is it time to spread dissapointment?

If you are just "disappointed" with the PS5, get a XSX, man and stop the autoflagellation ;)

 
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ethomaz

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title of this slide is spot on! It is a dream, if everything falls into place that would be the outcome. Still, it is only a dream.
He is talking about a product not a dream anymore.
This slide is what they could archive from that dream with that product.

It is basically for what PS5 was created.
 
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