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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Dec 22, 2019
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"we expect"
"most of the time"
"most of the time"
"a couple percent"

Such definitive numbers and wording.
Such reading comprehension skills.

Try following the conversation and the post I was responding too.

It’s clear from Cerny’s presentation that the PS5 cannot sustain both max clock speeds for the cpu and gpu.
This is literally made up FUD. Cerny said the exact opposite and I posted the transcript in case someone actually believed that poster's bullshit.

Trying to be flippant and pretending to be confused about the Merriam-Webster definition of the word 'couple' is irrelevant. Your grasp of the English language is irrelevant to the purpose of my post.
 
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Gamernyc78

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Why were Sony's target specifications for the PlayStation 5 so low? Why did they gimp on the CPU and GPU, which are the core of any gaming machine's power?
You don't know what you are talking about. Stop feeding into the bs hive mind of trolls. They didn't skimp on gpu or cpu, is it lower than nextbox? Yes but with better ram. Big step up from Gcn to RDNA 2. It is more Than 10tf Gcn but 10 plus on RDNA 2 and only slightly lower than what is found in the nextbox 🤦‍♂️
 
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lol This is in no way what is going on right now. Swap the SSD and GPU and you would have it right. Everyone is so enamored with the XSX because it’s the “stronger” of the two systems, but now more developers are coming out and showing their excitement for PS5 which has fanboys up in a tizzy.
Ya, sure they are.

Go to the Reeee thread which brought it up.

And about 5 responses down, people were basically like...... "dude, these are all Naughty Dog and former Sony partnership people".

As someone said later in that thread answering why SeX doesn't have the same number of people Tweeting the same thing. His response..... "MS doesn't need damage control"
 

scie

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"Remedy signs deal with ‘major publisher’ for two next-gen games"

The first project is a “AAA multi-platform game” already in pre-production, the company said on Thursday, while the second is a “smaller-scale” project set in the same franchise. Both projects are being developed on Remedy’s proprietary Northlight game engine and tools.

The games will be released for next-gen consoles and PC in “the next few years,” Remedy said. The Finnish studio will retain ownership of the unannounced games’ IP, while revenue will be split with the publisher.

More details regarding the partnership between Remedy and the publisher will be announced later today by a press release.
It´ll be interesting who the publisher is
 

CJY

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Ya, sure they are.

Go to the Reeee thread which brought it up.

And about 5 responses down, people were basically like...... "dude, these are all Naughty Dog and former Sony partnership people".

As someone said later in that thread answering why SeX doesn't have the same number of people Tweeting the same thing. His response..... "MS doesn't need damage control"
Maybe there was some damage control by some factions of the PlayStation userbase but soon everyone saw the light and the game has changed. People used to argue about polygon counts at one time in consoles. On PC, it was Mhz. TFlops is old and the fact that MS is still pushing them shows how out of touch they are with where the console market is really going.
 
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Okay. Where I pushed narrative that Sony did it in last minute? I always talked about it as possibility and surely i wasn't implying, that they saw Xbox article and upped the frequencies. But it's nice to see, you are cherrypicking what suits your "arguments"

I will give you one possibility. It is possibility so even fanboy like you will understand: Since, we established, that one company know what other is doing, Sony found out in 2018-2019, that their GPU chip is severely less powerful that XsX. So they had two options - either produce completely new chip with higher CU count, which wasn't feasible or just try to get maximum power from current chip. So they put everything together and tried to up the frequencies until they hit peak of cooling capabilities. And since maximum frequencies caused some problems in testing, they implemented variable frequencies which take to account power load of console and can downclock in case of high heat. Sounds like possibility?


He was not talking about fact, that Microsoft knew, that Sony will reveal PS5 specs during GDC presentation. He was talking, that Microsoft knew that Sony have non-fixed frequencies for GPU and CPU. That's why, during DF article they stressed multiple times, that they have fixed frequencies. They said it multiple times because they knew, that Sony doesn't have that. Why would they do it otherwise?
Well, MS definitely knew Sony was going to present something that Wednesday. Just follow their pattern of undercutting Sony's other announcements from earlier in the year. XSX early APU reveal right before Sony's CES event (and logo reveal). New XSX details right before Sony announced they were skipping E3. That initial blog post where they probably thought Sony was going to announce something later that week (didn't happen). The info on Monday last week cutting ahead of the GDC PS5 presentation on Wednesday.

And yeah, these two companies would obviously know a lot more on each other's specs than we would. They might've known for a while about Sony's variable frequency strategy. As for if it's likely Sony upped the GPU clock "last minute"? Not necessarily. Now, I don't think they had a plan to clock it as high as they have, but at least 2 GHz seemed like it was always part of the plan, when you combine that with their cooling patent. We don't know exactly when the 2.23 GHz clock was set in place, though. It wasn't June 2019, it could've been during December or slightly before December. In terms of pinning a specific timing, the best we can do is guess.

As to if the 2.23 GHz clock was done in reaction? I don't know. I mean if you look simply at the reactions to 9.2 TF that were here on this forum alone (let alone everywhere else), MOST people didn't like the sound of that idea. So if they upclock was done in reaction, even if part of it was in knowing what MS had with XSX, at least another part of the reaction could've been from people at Sony seeing the reaction from fans who just would not accept a hypothetical 9.2 TF PS5. Or, maybe they surmised people would've reacted that way well before any leaks or data mining results came out.
 
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Desodeset

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Maybe there was some damage control by some factions of the PlayStation userbase but soon everyone saw the light and the game has changed. People used to argue about polygon counts at one time in consoles. On PC, it was Mhz. TFlops is old and the fact that MS is still pushing them shows how out of touch they are with where the console market is really going.
I can't wait for PS5 Pro with even more bits.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I've seen a leak/rumor today which points out that Ampere might actually have just 4992 SP and 12GB GDDR6, which is not as dramatic step up from current 2080Ti as previously rumored 7-8k SP GPUs with 16GB VRAM... Besides, even if those 20-30TF GPUs turn out to be real, who and why otehr than content creators would need such computing power for 1080p, or 1440p at best? 4K is basically non-existent on PC, if anything, widescreen or multi-screen setups are vastly more popular, but they apply to narrow applications like all sort of simulators, or a simple/office work that can rely on iGPU. And DLSS 2.0 basically makes anything above 1080p irrelevant right now. And with all that said, I expect that upcoming mid, or even low-end GPUs will match with the upcoming consoles, maybe not in terms of on-paper specs/Tflops, but in the actual performance/results.
I can say that 50% of the content I watch on youtube is at 4K. Maybe for a small screen 1440p is enough, but going 40" and above 4K is just no brainer.

Now if I show these trailers of crossgen:



Look so much cleaner and sharper than current gen, although assets in general aren't that great overal and grass looks like shit in Halo. If you are not looking at it on a big 4K screen, you won't appreciate it.

By the way, 8K is much better than 4K, but not as staggering as 4K vs 1080p. 8K=33.2 megapixles, 4K=8.2MP, 1080p=2.1MP.

I would ask for native 8K to be a thing by 2023-2024. For me resolution>FPS, Graphics>FPS. Unless you're playing FPV game/shooter then yes FPS are preferrable.
 
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Ahhh of course, of course lol. thanks for the response :messenger_beermugs:.
According to Cerny, the idea is not to literally eliminate loading times anyway, like constantly streaming real time. He pictures a black screen merely fading for one second and that's it.
If he really has eliminated the bottlenecks and the results in loadings corresponds to the increase in speeds (100x), which is what he states he did anyway, I don't see why viewing it as impossible. Even if it's 2-3 seconds I will not complain lol
 
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Maybe there was some damage control by some factions of the PlayStation userbase but soon everyone saw the light and the game has changed. People used to argue about polygon counts at one time in consoles. On PC, it was Mhz. TFlops is old and the fact that MS is still pushing them shows how out of touch they are with where the console market is really going.
Aside from PC gamers who have been using SSDs for gaming and productivity, no console gamers have even experienced SSDs, and not even at the speeds a PC user would traditionally use as the PS5/SeX SSDs are much faster than the average PC SSDs out there.

Of course you would say mhz and tf are old. Doesn't fit the narrative that SSD is suddenly the wave of the future of gaming starting on March 18, 2020.

When both consoles come out and they are blazing away at SSD speeds faster than what 99% of PC gamers are using (HDDs and slower SSDs), we'll have to see how they compare against good PC rigs.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Probably because it's just much heavier than a normal game.

Star Citizen with HDD: like what, one minute? Two? Even more, don't remember.
With SSD: 20 seconds.

Normal game with HDD: 5-10 sec.
With SSD: 2-3 sec.

This is exactly what dimishing returns are.
Those numbers with SATA SSD, which should be considered as HDD in the SSD market. SATA SSD do around 512MB/s, PS5 is doing 5500MB/s. Or 0.512GB/s vs 5.5GB/s.
 
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Aside from PC gamers who have been using SSDs for gaming and productivity, no console gamers have even experienced SSDs, and not even at the speeds a PC user would traditionally use as the PS5/SeX SSDs are much faster than the average PC SSDs out there.

Of course you would say mhz and tf are old. Doesn't fit the narrative that SSD is suddenly the wave of the future of gaming starting on March 18, 2020.

When both consoles come out and they are blazing away at SSD speeds faster than what 99% of PC gamers are using (HDDs and slower SSDs), we'll have to see how they compare against good PC rigs.
How do you think they will compare?
They will have insane graphical detail, it's unavoidable, at that level it doesn't matter much what is the difference. If they want stable 60 fps also, they do not have CPUs constraints, they can do it. They will scale some things down on PS5 and that's it.
RT will be the only real difference here, but I want to see how it goes.
 
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TBiddy

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Maybe there was some damage control by some factions of the PlayStation userbase but soon everyone saw the light and the game has changed. People used to argue about polygon counts at one time in consoles. On PC, it was Mhz. TFlops is old and the fact that MS is still pushing them shows how out of touch they are with where the console market is really going.
What a load of baloney. Of course the graphical prowess of a console is important. I know, it's become less important in the last week or so.. you know, since a certain event, but claiming a company is "out of touch" because they have a faster console and aren't afraid to tell it? That's damage control on a new level.
 
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CJY

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Aside from PC gamers who have been using SSDs for gaming and productivity, no console gamers have even experienced SSDs, and not even at the speeds a PC user would traditionally use as the PS5/SeX SSDs are much faster than the average PC SSDs out there.

Of course you would say mhz and tf are old. Doesn't fit the narrative that SSD is suddenly the wave of the future of gaming starting on March 18, 2020.

When both consoles come out and they are blazing away at SSD speeds faster than what 99% of PC gamers are using (HDDs and slower SSDs), we'll have to see how they compare against good PC rigs.
I think the general understanding is that PC is theoretically and literally capable of better performance than consoles with a sufficient budget, so a comparison between that and consoles is nothing more than brief curio. If someone wanted a PC, they'd go build one, but the vast majority of console gamers don't want the investment in time, money and convenience that entails.

I really don't know why PC is being brought into the discussion anyway.
 
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Probably because it's just much heavier than a normal game.

Star Citizen with HDD: like what, one minute? Two? Even more, don't remember.
With SSD: 20 seconds.

Normal game with HDD: 5-10 sec.
With SSD: 2-3 sec.

This is exactly what dimishing returns are.
Well, if a normal game on SSD is 2-3 seconds then a super fast PS5/SeX SSD which are faster than the average SSD in people's PCs shoud be able to load a game in literally like 0.5 seconds.

We'll see how it goes!
 
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Gamernyc78

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Thanks found it, no info in there yet on why it be relevant or a big deal I’ll keep an eye on it
No problem. Yeah wasnt much when I saw it few days ago but I'm glad you found it. Ppl are pretty fast on here about making new threads about new news. It happens to me sometimes when I cite something or make a new thread and somebody tells me it's already being discussed.

Happy gaming and stay safe.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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How do you think they will compare?
They will have insane graphical detail, it's unavoidable, at that level it doesn't matter much what is the difference. If they want stable 60 fps also, they do not have CPUs constraints, they can do it. They will scale some things down on PS5 and that's it.
RT will be the only real difference here, but I want to see how it goes.
Don't worry, my friend. It'll mostly be low-mid ray tracing implementation, could you tell the difference between Low and Ultra here?


 

CJY

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What a load of baloney. Of course the graphical prowess of a console is important. I know, it's become less important in the last week or so.. you know, since a certain event, but claiming a company is "out of touch" because they have a faster console and aren't afraid to tell it? That's damage control on a new level.
Cerny literally built PS5 around the central premise of have a super fast SSD and fast clocks. Xbox built their console to win the performance crown. Flops are important if you haven't got any, but at the higher levels like we're seeing next gen, they don't add much. Some people are downplaying the impotance SSD... yet that's all almost anyone is talking about, and those same people are also trying to steer the conversation back to talking about Flops. It's strange. Why do Xbox people keep trying to steer the conversation back to Flops? It's because it's what Xbox focused most of their engineering and budget on, and nobody is trying to downplay the XSX as being weak in Flop performance. Fair play, they win on that single performance metric. The SSD is just more interesting in its potential.


I feel Xbox are out of touch with the general public, but they have their finger firmly on the pulse of their existing fanbase. Everything they do feels reactionary to PlayStation and they seem to try so hard to get there "first".
 
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Rusco Da Vino

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PC MASTER RACE!!! :)

On a more seriously note - I do not think I am spreading FUD - I voice my opinion and speculate about next gen gaming consoles.

Another side note - the only consoles I own is a Switch (that collects dust) and a PS3 where I play GT6 with a steering wheel. I have tried both Forza and Forza Horizions and know that better graphics does not automatically mean a better game (GT6 is much better).

If a new Gran Turismo comes to PS5 I just might bite the bullet. ;)
See, man. That is exactly my point :)

You have no plan to buy a PS5 but still the mayority of your posts here are to try to downplay its specs providing 0 evidence/sources about your 9.2tf claims, even when Mr Cerny just told the world that the PS5 is a 10.28tf machine which uses AMD SmartShift tech, hence its variable CPU/GPU clocks.

I know you dont want to hear about this but the PS5 gains a +10% of performance by default using variable clocks and AMD SmartShift tech.

Source:


It is not me saying this, man, it is AMD ;)
 
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TBiddy

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Cerny literally built PS5 around the central premise of have a super fast SSD and fast clocks. Xbox built their console to win the performance crown. Flops are important if you haven't got any, but at the higher levels like we're seeing next gen, they don't add much. Some people are downplaying the impotance SSD... yet that's all almost anyone is talking about, and those same people are also trying to steer the conversation back to talking about Flops. It's strange. Why do Xbox people keep trying to steer the conversation back to Flops? It's because it's what Xbox focused most of their engineering and budget on, and nobody is trying to downplay the XSX as being weak in Flop performance. Fair play, they win on that single performance metric. The SSD is just more interesting in its potential.
I assume for the same reason that Sony people try to steer the conversation towards the SSD.

Xbox literally built their console around the central premise of a super fast SSD and lots of TF. SSD speed is important, if you haven't got an SSD, but at the speed levels in next gen, it won't make much of a difference. See? It goes both ways.

Of course it's exciting with an SSD in the new consoles. I don't think anyone disagrees.. but this whole "out of touch with the console market" you were trying to push is nonsense.
 
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Well, if a normal game on SSD is 2-3 seconds then a super fast PS5/SeX SSD which are faster than the average SSD in people's PCs shoud be able to load a game in literally like 0.5 seconds.

We'll see how it goes!
My numbers are just an example. To say: Star Citizen loadings with HDD are REALLY FUCKING LONG, they are not so long on SSDs, so you see a lot of difference. While on a good PC, loadings are far better on consoles even with HDD for the average game, so even with SSDs you will not fell that same difference, to explain dimishing returns and respond to the post.
Also, games will get very big and heavy to load. As I said before, if there are no bottlenecks we are looking at orders of magnitude better, so even if games require 10x the speed to load on par with games on PS4 and One, with this SSDs you will potentially have many more times that, drastically reducing the time regardless.
However, Cerny himself explained that there are several bottlenecks that prevents from the raw speed of an SSD to translate exactly to games loadings, like a 10x faster SSD result in 2x faster loadings. He claims to have eliminated all these bottlenecks, meaning that PS5 100x faster SSD is ACTUALLY 100x faster for games, while we know shit about SeX in this regards aside from raw numbers. Let alone that magic 22 GB/s which should bring to a peak of like more than 200x faster, but we need to see how it's possible.
That's why the SSD on PS5 seems kind of a big deal and why we can't do "but but only 2x", anyway, if you even don't include stuff like 6 channels priorities.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Well people say they because you need to do that at least 30 times per second... that is why devs uses a lot of duplicated data in their games (same texture for examolr) because there is no time to go on disc to get a different one.

Of course in a ideal world you can refresh the RAM dozen of times per second but that is actually impossible with actual tech.

So you refresh with new data the RAM the max the HDD/SSD allow you.

No dev in the world will not be happy with a faster SSD because when you design a game you already take in consideration which amount of data you will refresh on RAM at render time.

More SSD speed = more new data you carry from SSD to RAM to be used by GPU.
But why can't we just stick to what Mark Cerny is saying? YOU DON'T NEED DUPLICATES in a friendly tone :lollipop_tears_of_joy: 🙌

 

CJY

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I assume for the same reason that Sony people try to steer the conversation towards the SSD.

Xbox literally built their console around the central premise of a super fast SSD and lots of TF. SSD speed is important, if you haven't got an SSD, but at the speed levels in next gen, it won't make much of a difference. See? It goes both ways.

Of course it's exciting with an SSD in the new consoles. I don't think anyone disagrees.. but this whole "out of touch with the console market" you were trying to push is nonsense.
Sure, the "system war" mentality is difficult to break away from sometimes. Xbox is great. They know exactly what PlayStation gamers want and next gen, they're gonna win back all the gamers they lost to PlayStation this gen... is that better?
 

Shio

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Because it has like 5% slower CPU and 2-3 times the SSD speed.
If that was the case then i suppose pretty much any console could be called the 'fastest', fastest GPU, fastest CPU, fastest SSD, suppose best to wait after release and get the one with 'best games', that's something i am more interested in rather than these fancy tags.
 
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If that was the case then i suppose pretty much any console could be called the 'fastest', fastest GPU, fastest CPU, fastest SSD, suppose best to wait after release and get the one with 'best games', that's something i am more interested in rather than these fancy tags.
"Fastest" is directed to average customers, it's marketing.
For the average customers, the fastest console will have the shortest loading times, less time to boot and do anything on the OS. For them, fastest does not translate to better graphics, that's why SeX is not called the FASTEST MORE POWERFUL ALSO. Of course it's subjective what fastest means.
 
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CJY

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What a way to run from a discussion.
Basically, if you really want to have a discussion... Xbox's strategy dictates that the vast majority of their games will run on anything from a lowly PC and Xbox One, right through to XSX. I think most people's understanding of console generations, which has been embedded into people's psyches their whole lives is that a new generation should bring about games that weren't possible in the previous gen. I believe this is the crux of the matter affecting MS. Their games will be playable on many, many other systems. I know myself, I'm more likely to build a PC or buy an Xbox One X than a Series X, cos they're going to have the same games.

On PS5 though, everyone knows they're going to get guaranteed next-gen titles that won't be available anywhere else.

The problem with MS isn't that they are out of touch, I was just trolling... but their strategy remains largely unproven in the console space.
 

mckmas8808

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According to this assets still get loaded into System RAM, which in turn, is the bottleneck given the amount of bandwidth. Microsoft actually has the edge in bandwidth there, but lacks the SSD bandwidth to get it to the RAM. I know it's still apples to oranges, but the SSD and the amount it streams is only as good as the pipeline. I do agree that the PS5 definitely has it's benefits in loading assets, but I don't think people will notice all that much of a difference.
The bandwidth the PS5 isn't a huge bottleneck compared to the XSX. If you think about the bandwidth compared to the total amount of TFs each GPU has, I think there's a 7% MB/s difference.
 

FranXico

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The problem with MS isn't that they are out of touch, I was just trolling... but their strategy remains largely unproven in the console space.
One can argue they don't worry about that. Console doesn't matter to them more than PC.
 
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TBiddy

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Basically, if you really want to have a discussion... Xbox's strategy dictates that the vast majority of their games will run on anything from a lowly PC and Xbox One, right through to XSX. I think most people's understanding of console generations, which has been embedded into people's psyches their whole lives is that a new generation should bring about games that weren't possible in the previous gen. I believe this is the crux of the matter affecting MS. Their games will be playable on many, many other systems. I know myself, I'm more likely to build a PC or buy an Xbox One X than a Series X, cos they're going to have the same games.

On PS5 though, everyone knows they're going to get guaranteed next-gen titles that won't be available anywhere else.

The problem with MS isn't that they are out of touch, I was just trolling... but their strategy remains largely unproven in the console space.
The strategy does not dictate that. We're talking a limited time period. Something which has been repeated God knows how many times on this forum by now. The issue here is that there's a lot of people out there spreading the FUD that all XSX games will have to run on XB1 - whether they do it on purpose or out if ignorance, I do not know.

If you want to build a PC or buy an X1X instead of the XSX, that's just fine. Each to his own.

I've bolded something in your quote, by the way. Gaf would be a much nicer place if people cut that shit out or took it somewhere else.
 
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See, man. That is exactly my point :)

You have no plan to buy a PS5 but still the mayority of your posts here are to try to downplay its specs providing 0 evidence/sources about your 9.2tf claims, even when Mr Cerny just told the world that the PS5 is a 10.28tf machine which uses AMD SmartShift tech, hence its variable CPU/GPU clocks.

I know you dont want to hear about this but the PS5 gains a +10% of performance by default using variable clocks and AMD SmartShift tech.

Source:


It is not me saying this, man, it is AMD ;)
Only if there is no 100% (or closes to 100%) workload and power target consumption.
In a console environment that's something you aim to utilize and get done later into the generation.
It's smart in general, but not I'm not sure if I like it in a console as much as a regular Laptop.
 
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"Remedy signs deal with ‘major publisher’ for two next-gen games"



It´ll be interesting who the publisher is
Hopefully not Tencent. Or even Google xD.

The strategy does not dictate that. We're talking a limited time period. Something which has been repeated God knows how many times on this forum by now. The issue here is that there's a lot of people out there spreading the FUD that all XSX games will have to run on XB1 - whether they do it on purpose or out if ignorance, I do not know.

If you want to build a PC or buy an X1X instead of the XSX, that's just fine. Each to his own.

I've bolded something in your quote, by the way. Gaf would be a much nicer place if people cut that shit out or took it somewhere else.
The "just get a PC" stuff doesn't make sense to me, either. The number of PC gamers with next-gen ready setups is insanely small, for one thing. Plus, just to have a setup at that level you'll be investing thousands into the hardware, upwards $2,000 if not more when considering the type monitor you'll need, headphones, a comparable controller for games that are better suited for it etc.

I have to upgrade my PC setup later this year but it will be nowhere near next-gen gaming ready, that much is guaranteed xD. So both consoles (yes, both) still have value to me in terms of next-gen gaming machines. And I'd assume that to be the case with millions of others. "Just get a PC" is pretty much a non-argument.

Is it funny in a way? Yeah, it has its roots in humor. But I can't even keep count of how many folks in YT stream comments try using it as a legit console warrior talking point. It's kind of ridiculous.
 
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CJY

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One can argue they don't worry about that. Console doesn't matter to them more than PC.
Exactly. MS don't care as much about the console space as much as their PC business and trying to take over the PC space is probably far more lucrative to them than the console space anyway. Steam, GOG, EGS... MS should be competing with those guys but they are basically nowhere to be seen. Sure, they're making in-roads, but again, the whole strategy is unproven.

I feel their current strategy was done in an attempt to stay relevant and as a sign of desperation. That's just my own opinion, and they should keep going, cos I'm hearing and seeing good things. I'm surprised Xbox is still around in all honesty after what happened early this gen. So they're definitely resilient, but they're going to have to absolutely knock it out of the park this whole gen for any chance for me to trust them.
 

Shio

Member
Jan 28, 2020
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See, man. That is exactly my point :)

You have no plan to buy a PS5 but still the mayority of your posts here are to try to downplay its specs providing 0 evidence/sources about your 9.2tf claims, even when Mr Cerny just told the world that the PS5 is a 10.28tf machine which uses AMD SmartShift tech, hence its variable CPU/GPU clocks.

I know you dont want to hear about this but the PS5 gains a +10% of performance by default using variable clocks and AMD SmartShift tech.

Source:


It is not me saying this, man, it is AMD ;)
So it's essentially 'free' in the sense that for the user it doesn't cost anything like added temperature or something, but for the manufacturer they have to implement this technology which i assume isn't free. For Sony they paid for it so have it (probably was cheaper than adding in silicon to get the same performance) and Microsoft opted instead to just add in the extra silicon. Sony basically started with a price and tried to squeeze as much of their vision within that price, trying every trick in the book to get us the best within that price whereas Microsoft did the same but started with a higher price. Compared side by side becomes irrelevant unless we know the price, just like when we were comparing current gen console to current top range PCs without looking at the price difference.
 
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The strategy does not dictate that. We're talking a limited time period. Something which has been repeated God knows how many times on this forum by now. The issue here is that there's a lot of people out there spreading the FUD that all XSX games will have to run on XB1 - whether they do it on purpose or out if ignorance, I do not know.

If you want to build a PC or buy an X1X instead of the XSX, that's just fine. Each to his own.

I've bolded something in your quote, by the way. Gaf would be a much nicer place if people cut that shit out or took it somewhere else.
Two years are not so little, c'mon. Putting aside first parties, if MS convince some third parties to work on One also, we will have an absurd long time of crossgens basically, and it's just unnecessary, really. One doesn't have a very big user base, just drop it, BC is more than enough.
I'm not saying if the worst of the worst, but it's not good, especially because it's not needed.
 

CJY

Banned
Jan 8, 2016
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The strategy does not dictate that. We're talking a limited time period. Something which has been repeated God knows how many times on this forum by now. The issue here is that there's a lot of people out there spreading the FUD that all XSX games will have to run on XB1 - whether they do it on purpose or out if ignorance, I do not know.

If you want to build a PC or buy an X1X instead of the XSX, that's just fine. Each to his own.

I've bolded something in your quote, by the way. Gaf would be a much nicer place if people cut that shit out or took it somewhere else.
There's an equal amount of FUD and misinformation coming from both sides, but I know for a fact that Spencer has come out and said that all 1st party games will run on Xbox One for a period of 2 years. I said it then and I'll say it now, my interest in next-gen Xbox dropped to zero at that point.
 
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As VanSirius said, fastest is subjective and any company can use that term how it wants. One car maker can say fastest and it means top speed, another claims it goes for acceleration 0-60. Another can say it's fastest at folding down seats.

Nerd specs only apply to people on game forums. The average person wanting to buy a new console for the living room isn't going to compare SSD speeds.

What they will do is watch whatever marketing is put in their face like a TV ad comparing an old console loading and new hip teenager playing a new console and playing the game in 1 second..... Hey, I'm cool and fast!

Teraflops isn't something most people resonate with. At least I don't think so. Horsepower in a cars people get the drift. Doesn't mean a higher horsepower means your car is faster. But there is a general trend it is more powerful assuming every other spec in the car is reasonable. And people resonate with it.

A BMW at 400 hp is probably going to be more powerful and faster than a 280 hp car. But an army tank at 400 hp probably can't even move, but any car at 280 hp is going to work in some form.

Even among car buffs. Nobody says my car's max speed is 250 km/hr so it's better than yours at 240 km/h. But what they do is dick wave who has more hp or does 0-60 faster.
 
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ethomaz

Gold Member
Mar 19, 2013
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It’s clear from Cerny’s presentation that the PS5 cannot sustain both max clock speeds for the cpu and gpu. Most games will run at 2GHz glu clock speeds. Those games that do not, will have the cpu transfer power to the gpu such that it can hit 2.23 GHz
But he said the opposite :pie_thinking:
It can sustain and the drops for some specific heavy workload are a coupe of percent only.

Everything else is baseless assumption because nobody talking has the devkit or PS5.
 
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Exactly. MS don't care as much about the console space as much as their PC business and trying to take over the PC space is probably far more lucrative to them than the console space anyway. Steam, GOG, EGS... MS should be competing with those guys but they are basically nowhere to be seen. Sure, they're making in-roads, but again, the whole strategy is unproven.

I feel their current strategy was done in an attempt to stay relevant and as a sign of desperation. That's just my own opinion, and they should keep going, cos I'm hearing and seeing good things. I'm surprised Xbox is still around in all honesty after what happened early this gen. So they're definitely resilient, but they're going to have to absolutely knock it out of the park this whole gen for any chance for me to trust them.
If MS should be competing with them (they are), then by relation Sony should as well. The idea a company like MS or Sony can't simultaneously offer competitive products and services in somewhat related markets is misguided, given their relative sizes and areas of R&D reach. And in regards to Sony, we're already seeing a strategic shift from them to do so. I wouldn't say MS doesn't care about their console side to the point where it's even seemingly insignificant compared to the PC side, because otherwise they would not have invested into the gaming studios and XSX hardware as much as they have. The proof is seemingly in the pudding.

I don't even know where you're getting the idea it's a desperate strategy, because again, Sony's going to be doing these same things and already have in some ways. They simply don't have the means to go as hard into it as MS, Amazon, Google, Apple etc. because they're a smaller company, and their cloud infrastructure isn't as good as theirs. If it were, however, you'd be seeing a lot of that type of stuff more openly from them and baby steps like Horizon to PC and (possibly) God of War 4 to PC are pretty indicative of that.

ms = brute force
sony = innovation
Ah, the false narrative strikes again!
 

Neo Blaster

Gold Member
Jan 27, 2020
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The strategy does not dictate that. We're talking a limited time period. Something which has been repeated God knows how many times on this forum by now. The issue here is that there's a lot of people out there spreading the FUD that all XSX games will have to run on XB1 - whether they do it on purpose or out if ignorance, I do not know.

If you want to build a PC or buy an X1X instead of the XSX, that's just fine. Each to his own.

I've bolded something in your quote, by the way. Gaf would be a much nicer place if people cut that shit out or took it somewhere else.
Spencer was pretty clear about first party games for a period. Thirds are not obliged, but we all know that in the first two years they prefer crossgen games to tap both current and new install bases.
 
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nosseman

Member
Mar 16, 2020
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See, man. That is exactly my point :)

You have no plan to buy a PS5 but still the mayority of your posts here are to try to downplay its specs providing 0 evidence/sources about your 9.2tf claims, even when Mr Cerny just told the world that the PS5 is a 10.28tf machine which uses AMD SmartShift tech, hence its variable CPU/GPU clocks.

I know you dont want to hear about this but the PS5 gains a +10% of performance by default using variable clocks and AMD SmartShift tech.

Source:


It is not me saying this, man, it is AMD ;)
There you go. You say that I downplay the spec - I say you downplay the effects the difference in spec AND you also overplay other features - it all sounds like 10.x tflop > 12.x tflop to me.

AMD Smartshift is great for 4xxxH cpus from AMD with TINY GPU:s on the APU - we are talking 7 CU:s on the best APU:s. In that situation you could perhaps see a 10% increase in tflop.

The problem is that even WITH that 10% extra PS5 would still only hit 10.x tflop since that is its peak performance and for that to happen you would have to seriously down clock the CPU.

Perhaps in the beginning of this generation down clocking the CPU is fine since its a huge step up from previous generation but something tells me that developers will run out of CPU power again in 2-3 years and when that happens you can kiss that 10% extra GPU-performance goodbye.

Last gen was 8 slow jaguar cores and this gen its 8 cores and 16 logical cores - but it will run out.
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer & GIF/Meme Champion
Feb 10, 2020
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Salalah, Oman
I'm honestly surprised more people aren't talking about the fact he teased more games coming to PC. That's huge. Also surprised mods haven't moved to verify his claim. I am definitely holding on my PS5 pre order until I hear more from him or something indicating the state of Sonys library.
Mod of War Mod of War would you please check recent claims of insider info that guy made? Regards. 🙌