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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

roops67

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Apr 24, 2020
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how come we believe everything coming from Sony and treating any statements from MS as bs?
It's MS statements downplaying PS5 we call BS on, it comes from Phil Spencer and all other MS employee that opens their mouths to the media, contradicting themselves in the process!
Haven't heard anything out of Sony downplaying XSX, so where's the bs there?? Or do you have any example of Sony trying to spread fud about XSX?
 
Apr 18, 2018
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I had some thoughts about console pricing today. Lets assume the following start prices for both consoles:
PS5 Disc: 500$
PS5 Digital: 400$
XSX: 400$
XSS: 250$

In this scenario Sony might have trouble keeping their installbase advantage over MS in the beginning of this generation. So for Sony to offer a cheaper entry into their new gen and their ecosystem overall they could make the Digital Version even cheaper 1 or 2 years into the gen, while keeping the disc version at 500$.

People would have more incentive purchasing the digital edition, which in turn would guarantee Sony to make more money with their PSN and PS-Store on per customer basis.

However dropping the price of the Digital Edition even further would mean they would potentially make less profit with the hardware then the gen before. This would need to be compensated.

And I think this could actually be Sonys greatest incentive to reduce game development time to 3 years tops for each title while shortening the estimated gameplay time.
They could be aimimg at 25ish hour titles as a base for 60-80$ and/or Sequels/Prequels/Spinnofs/DLCs with 10-15is hours for 30-50$ .
The more games a first party development team of sony creates in a console lifespan the more Sony would earn in return. Especially if they manage to "lure" more customers into their digital portfolio.

Anyone else here who could see that happening?
why would the ps5 be more expensive when it has a lower BoM than the series x?
 

McHuj

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why would the ps5 be more expensive when it has a lower BoM than the series x?
no one knows (outside of MS/Sony) the bom’s if either device. It’s all speculation.

people can guess the XSX since we’ve seen the tear down, but there’s nothing on the PS5. It could be more, it could be less. A lot depends on the cost of the SSD components and their cooling solution.
 

Sinthor

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Jun 6, 2013
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why would the ps5 be more expensive when it has a lower BoM than the series x?
I think it's just all speculation. Pretty easy to speculate Sony would have at least ONE box at $399 since that worked out so well for them last time. I have a harder time, given the teardown, thinking that the XSX can be $399. I think $499 for both the XSX and the BD drive version of the PS5. But we'll see!
 

BadBurger

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Nov 6, 2019
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Just going back to comparisons between consoles another thing to consider and not always mentioned enough is useable ram. If this is right then this could be a big advantage for PS5..

Not sure if this is right but people have mentioned about ps5 OS is likely be less of the ram used maybe it should be able to just load almost instantly using the ssd and io speed, presuming that's what they do. If that's the case is almost full ram available compared to xbox 13.5GB?

Anyway... even if not then this slide is surely very important.



PS5 holds only data in ram for next second of gameplay leaving more for actual use. It's ssd is 2x faster and with io is at least 2x faster than the xbox. Because of eliminated bottlenecks and the xbox not having the dedicated hardware to eliminate them, the xbox is likely far more than 2x slower in actual use in games as cerny showed if you don't eliminate all bottlenecks in that slide.

This appears to be backed up by various different leaks and insiders we have had posted on here. Bg's said around 5x faster worst case for data management. A confirmed insider post from inside metal said similar although open to interpretation. Xbox uses cpu for io so likely to introduce latency.

Even just going off ssd speeds, at twice as slow the xbox would have to hold another second of gameplay in ram, if these higher amounts slower are true then surely this is going to be a bad result for the xbox with even more needing to be held in ram...

Thoughts?
It sounds like how many storage area network solutions I deal with use virtualization and fast cache solutions to reduce queuing for things like random I/O for massive databases / arrays of databases. Seen it take an environment that was crushed to one that had absolutely no performance issues. I won't pretend to know about the ins and outs of hardware at this low a level, but looking at the data and leaks it makes a lot of sense.
 

yewles1

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If Perfect Dark is real that could be excting if done right.

Honestly i wasn't that much looking forward about the Xbox show, and while of course we'll have to wait and see the concrete stuffs, but things already starting to smell good and better than the last 10 years of Xbox.

PS: Still one of the best VG TV spot ever made.

I miss Don LaFontaine... :messenger_crying:
 
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pasterpl

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Maybe because they have a history of spreading bullshit?
but historically Xbox engineers are “better”, MS had ”only” one major hardware disaster (rrod) while Sony (and Cerny ) Delivered YOLD and followed up with ”jet engine” PS4. Xbox on their other hand had OG Xbox, solid Xbox one (underpowered but without too many issues) and then state of the art xbonex. Then we have got xbsex, that even AMD said will be “pinnacle of innovation” coming this gen.

also when talking about bullshit, isn’t Sony quite of famous for spreading “bullshots” and presenting Gci trailers that are not matching the final product?
 

pasterpl

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Sony isn't talking about XSX at all. MS has no class.

you mean Like that video about game sharing (directly pointing out Xbox one fups), or Kutaragi san bashing Xbox 360 as Xbox 1.5? Sony have a history of attacking their competition in same or even stronger way that what is currently happening.

but I am guessing that if Sony is doing the exact same thing it is funny and acceptable, but it Is unacceptable when ms is doing the same thing?

or are you saying that Sony just now got that class you are referring to and had none of it in the previous generations?
 

pasterpl

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Me reading this and looking at the last Inside Xbox:

none of the trailers were marked as running on xbsex, they were quite transparent saying that shown quality is representative of what game might look like when released On xbsex, not sure what are you referring to. It is different than Sony showing a first glimpse into a game on e3 without any caveats on screen, whole industry assuming that this is how the final product will look like, and then surprising everyone with actual game looking nothing like the e3 presentation, i think similar things happened multiple times in case of Sony and couple other publishers (ubi).
 

SlimySnake

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Feb 5, 2013
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Did they? I genuinely ask this becuase I only remember Lisa Su saying Mark Cerny was trying to revolutionize console gaming with the PS5.

Source timestamped:
yeah, i remember this. jason schrier had people tell him this too. the ready at dawn guy said the same thing. Matt on era and a bunch of other developers have made similar claims. tbh, i bought into all this sony is revolutionizing this with their architecture PR talk. i saw nothing in that conference and among 24 games that was anything close to revolutionary.

maybe it was a bad marketing decision to not show much gameplay, but if this thing is revolutionary, i am not seeing this.
 

FeiRR

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May 22, 2013
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Wait does YouTube support 120FPS videos?
Not only it doesn't but very few people have displays which can match that. It's even more difficult to market than VR. I've seen 120 Hz things in person and I wasn't very impressed.

Do we know if TLoU2 has any PS5 version yet? And whether it’s more than just a resolution and frame rate buff?
I wrote a post a few days back with my musings of possible expansions in the game, if you care to trace it through my posting history. I think double framerate, better textures and elements of RT are a possibility while extended audio is actually already hinted in game. I don't really see the need for higher resolution (framerate too but people are going to cry for it).

I had some thoughts about console pricing today. Lets assume the following start prices for both consoles:
PS5 Disc: 500$
PS5 Digital: 400$
XSX: 400$
XSS: 250$
I don't see XSX selling for 400. I think it'll be matched price to PS5 with disc or maybe just a bit cheaper because of their insecurity. I expect XSX to be something like their Elite controller: overpriced with a false aura of luxury. They'll use Lockhart price in their Game Pass and exclusive game ads "you can play this game STARTING FROM $250".

I can see them not caring about profit on the digital edition. For me even if the Digital edition costs 200 dollars less i wouldn't buy that. But the people who will buy the digital one, will be more profitable for them in the long run. That console is basically what MS tried with their console at the start in the last generation. You can't buy used games, you can not simply share like you do with a physical copy of a game. I have no clue how sharing works on PS4, but as far as i know you can only share a game to one person right?
You can share with many people but only one extra person at a time can be playing.

If XSS could shave another £50 off what Sony wanted to sell PS5DE for I’d be very happy. Competition is great for all of us.
To a point when they bleed money because they've gone too far. We've already had one Atari moment in the history of gaming. Game Pass is a danger of it coming back. This is my main problem with Xbox, not because their logo is green or anything like that.

but historically Xbox engineers are “better”, MS had ”only” one major hardware disaster (rrod) while Sony (and Cerny ) Delivered YOLD and followed up with ”jet engine” PS4. Xbox on their other hand had OG Xbox, solid Xbox one (underpowered but without too many issues) and then state of the art xbonex. Then we have got xbsex, that even AMD said will be “pinnacle of innovation” coming this gen.

also when talking about bullshit, isn’t Sony quite of famous for spreading “bullshots” and presenting Gci trailers that are not matching the final product?
I'm not going to discuss anything with you because, as I had said previously, I consider you to be a person of very limited intelligence and hence not worth my time. I'm just going to leave one graph here.



Quality wise, Xbox 360 was a piece of trash.
 

pasterpl

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Did they? I genuinely ask this becuase I only remember Lisa Su saying Mark Cerny was trying to revolutionize console gaming with the PS5.

Source timestamped:
here is a full quote

The Xbox Series X is the biggest generational leap of SoC and API design that we’ve done with Microsoft, and it’s an honor for AMD to partner with Microsoft for this endeavor. The Xbox Series X is going to be a beacon of technical innovation leadership for this console generation and will propagate the innovation throughout the DirectX ecosystem this year and into next year. It is a privilege to be Microsoft’s trusted partner, and we look forward to a successful launch this holiday season!
Sebastien Nussbaum is Senior Fellow and Corporate Vice President, Semi-Custom Products & Technologies at AMD

source
 

pasterpl

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Feb 8, 2020
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I'm not going to discuss anything with you because, as I had said previously, I consider you to be a person of very limited intelligence and hence not worth my time. I'm just going to leave one graph here.
...

.

I can see that I have struck a nerve...in addition, your response shows me that you obviously didnt understand my post
 
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Setsuna Mudou

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May 29, 2020
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you mean Like that video about game sharing (directly pointing out Xbox one fups), or Kutaragi san bashing Xbox 360 as Xbox 1.5? Sony have a history of attacking their competition in same or even stronger way that what is currently happening.

but I am guessing that if Sony is doing the exact same thing it is funny and acceptable, but it Is unacceptable when ms is doing the same thing?

or are you saying that Sony just now got that class you are referring to and had none of it in the previous generations?
The game sharing video was funny because it was true. And it was so bad it actually had MS realize how much they fucked up and completely 180 their policies. If you like the current MS strategy you should be thanking Sony and all the people that vocally complained against the XB1 reveal.
 

pasterpl

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The game sharing video was funny because it was true. And it was so bad it actually had MS realize how much they fucked up and completely 180 their policies. If you like the current MS strategy you should be thanking Sony and all the people that vocally complained against the XB1 reveal.
The point I was trying to make is that Sony, similar to ms can make digs at the competition, that’s normal. I liked that Sony video, and yes, ms dropped the ball massively at that time. Point is that some people in this thread are trying to portray Sony as company that is just minding their own business and that It is only petty US corpo that talks about their competition.
 

Setsuna Mudou

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May 29, 2020
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but historically Xbox engineers are “better”, MS had ”only” one major hardware disaster (rrod) while Sony (and Cerny ) Delivered YOLD and followed up with ”jet engine” PS4. Xbox on their other hand had OG Xbox, solid Xbox one (underpowered but without too many issues) and then state of the art xbonex. Then we have got xbsex, that even AMD said will be “pinnacle of innovation” coming this gen.

also when talking about bullshit, isn’t Sony quite of famous for spreading “bullshots” and presenting Gci trailers that are not matching the final product?
What the hell? Cerny was only the lead architect since the PS Vita, the PS3 was before his time. And besides the childish argument of whose engineers are betters (for real??), the point was the MS guy that was downplaying the PS5 presumably has never seen or touched one, and has a vested interest in claiming any and all advantages. You should at least look for an independent view on those consoles, from some dev that has actualy touched both.
 

FranXico

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Dec 7, 2010
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What the hell? Cerny was only the lead architect since the PS Vita, the PS3 was before his time. And besides the childish argument of whose engineers are betters (for real??), the point was the MS guy that was downplaying the PS5 presumably has never seen or touched one, and has a vested interest in claiming any and all advantages. You should at least look for an independent view on those consoles, from some dev that has actualy touched both.
As far as interviewed third party devs are concerned, nobody seems to have any major complaints about either console so far. Both are very easy to develop for apparently.
 

Setsuna Mudou

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May 29, 2020
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The point I was trying to make is that Sony, similar to ms can make digs at the competition, that’s normal. I liked that Sony video, and yes, ms dropped the ball massively at that time. Point is that some people in this thread are trying to portray Sony as company that is just minding their own business and that It is only petty US corpo that talks about their competition.
Because they are absolutely reactionary and have terrible PR representation. Greenberg is a cancer and the way they actively promote fanboys (like misterx and his ilk) on official channels is pretty disgraceful. I don't know what's the equivalent of this sort of misterx lunacy on the Sony fanbase, but I have never seen the official PR teams promote those sort of people.
 

Leekors

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Oct 11, 2013
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I keep reading people saying on several threads that they will buy the console where the third-party games will run/look better. I understood that at the beginning of past generations but not now. If I have my Ps/Xbox account with a lot of games and friends attached to it, I will never switch to the other and lose all that just for a little better performance/graphics difference. The only ones that would do that would be people buying both consoles and people buying their first console. Maybe I am wrong, but I don’t think that neither of them is the majority. I think that the advantage is not related to better performance/graphics on third parties anymore, it is having a bigger install base with a lot of games attached to the respective account. Not saying that a better performance/graphics does not matter, I am saying that it is not as much relevant as people think it is. The install base and attachment rate could change slowly overtime, but right now it is what it is.
 

DGrayson

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Not only it doesn't but very few people have displays which can match that. It's even more difficult to market than VR. I've seen 120 Hz things in person and I wasn't very impressed.


I wrote a post a few days back with my musings of possible expansions in the game, if you care to trace it through my posting history. I think double framerate, better textures and elements of RT are a possibility while extended audio is actually already hinted in game. I don't really see the need for higher resolution (framerate too but people are going to cry for it).


I don't see XSX selling for 400. I think it'll be matched price to PS5 with disc or maybe just a bit cheaper because of their insecurity. I expect XSX to be something like their Elite controller: overpriced with a false aura of luxury. They'll use Lockhart price in their Game Pass and exclusive game ads "you can play this game STARTING FROM $250".


You can share with many people but only one extra person at a time can be playing.


To a point when they bleed money because they've gone too far. We've already had one Atari moment in the history of gaming. Game Pass is a danger of it coming back. This is my main problem with Xbox, not because their logo is green or anything like that.


I'm not going to discuss anything with you because, as I had said previously, I consider you to be a person of very limited intelligence and hence not worth my time. I'm just going to leave one graph here.



Quality wise, Xbox 360 was a piece of trash.

I normally really try to take a back seat and be a mod but this post is ridiculous.
 

Vae_Victis

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Mar 4, 2020
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also when talking about bullshit, isn’t Sony quite of famous for spreading “bullshots” and presenting Gci trailers that are not matching the final product?
I don't know where this one is supposed to come from.

Last time I remember Sony doing something like this was E3 2007 before the PS3 launch (and still, most of those that went down in history as "fake trailers" were really not that far off the actual games, the only serious offender IMHO being MotorStorm). That was 13 years ago, I was in middle school back then, now I have a university degree and a job. Do you have some more recent example that I completely missed or forgot about?

On the flip side (not because I want to attack Microsoft, but because your claim seems to stem as a response from people doing so), at E3 2013 Xbox One games were still shown and even made playable at the stands while running on Windows PCs, something Microsoft did not disclose and was only found out because their damned OS kept crashing on the users (https://www.slashgear.com/xbox-one-e3-demos-were-played-on-windows-gaming-pcs-15286627/). That too was not exactly yesterday (I was already at Uni back then!), but glass houses and all the rest?
 

BadBreathOfTheWild

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May 1, 2020
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To a point when they bleed money because they've gone too far. We've already had one Atari moment in the history of gaming. Game Pass is a danger of it coming back. This is my main problem with Xbox, not because their logo is green or anything like that.

I'm not going to discuss anything with you because, as I had said previously, I consider you to be a person of very limited intelligence and hence not worth my time. I'm just going to leave one graph here.



Quality wise, Xbox 360 was a piece of trash.
I’m not sure who this last bit was aimed at?
 
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geordiemp

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That I/O system is no joke in terms of value, you just need to see the prices of SSD with the same speed as the PS5... there is that, and the rumored cooling solution... I think that is why people think the PS5 can cost more to produce...
But its 12 lower cost chips in the SSD, the reason its so fast is the 12 channels and the IO in the APU (which is APU cost).

To me the SSD design using 12 cheaper chips (wide design) is a cost design of smaller lower spec chips as much as speed, the 12 lanes costs more.

I can imagine sonty get those older small chips cheap as chips
did I say that

The cooler solution my guess is 2 smaller vapour chamber heat sink but who knows.
 
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PaintTinJr

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The point I was trying to make is that Sony, similar to ms can make digs at the competition, that’s normal. I liked that Sony video, and yes, ms dropped the ball massively at that time. Point is that some people in this thread are trying to portray Sony as company that is just minding their own business and that It is only petty US corpo that talks about their competition.
You might be correct, but I remembered that video as being a response by PlayStation to PlayStation customer concerns.A response to masses of comments on news outlet articles saying that PlayStation weren't revealing their policy and it was an industry stich-up where PlayStation and Xbox had effectively killed offline consoles and physical game sharing, together.
 
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pasterpl

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John Oliver shouts out the "alien's waffle maker" or "penguin designed by Apple" PS5 and Horizon Forbidden West on his show this week. LOL!


Timestamped @ 4:23

"I want to murder dinosaur robots with flaming arrows, and I want to do it now."
I am literally just watching it on my tv and was looking for this clip on youtube to share here
 
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DrDamn

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Feb 19, 2013
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There is too much crap in this thread about past generations and assumptions of what that means for this one. Yes MS messed up with RRoD but X1 and in particular X1S/X1X are fantastic examples of good *quiet* technical design (beacons even!). Yes Sony have in the past been guilty of passing off bullshot / pre-rendered footage as realtime - but not recently. Companies change and learn from their mistakes - hell both MS and Sony managed to turn around mistakes within a generation (X1 / PS3).

They will both make more mistakes, sometimes forgetting what they have learned and making new mistakes, but I'm really positive for both coming in to this generation. Both have great machines with their own strengths, and technical changes which will make the experience of playing games a lot more enjoyable and immersive. Loads and loads of games from both. There is lots to be excited by which ever you buy, and the strength of both teams means they will both me working harder for your money.
 

BadBreathOfTheWild

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Highly unlikely with the type of power envelopes we're expecting here. I think it will use a single large fan running that < 1000 rpm even at full speed, and make close to no sound.
From the wording of the dev-kit patent my bet is on multiple smaller axial fans blowing evenly across the heat sink.
That patent explains why axial is preferably to centrifugal, and the benefits of having multiple smaller ones, too.

There’s no way at all it’s fanless.

Xbox Series X is built around a large single axial fan and it’s the reason it has to adopt the shape that it has done.
 

Snowdonhoffen

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here is a full quote



Sebastien Nussbaum is Senior Fellow and Corporate Vice President, Semi-Custom Products & Technologies at AMD

source
Never read that before, seems both consoles are trying to move the industry forward in their own ways,
 

Neo Blaster

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none of the trailers were marked as running on xbsex, they were quite transparent saying that shown quality is representative of what game might look like when released On xbsex, not sure what are you referring to. It is different than Sony showing a first glimpse into a game on e3 without any caveats on screen, whole industry assuming that this is how the final product will look like, and then surprising everyone with actual game looking nothing like the e3 presentation, i think similar things happened multiple times in case of Sony and couple other publishers (ubi).
Oh, I wasn't talking about the trailers, if you take a look at the YouTube video title, you can see a certain word, what was it...'gameplay'. Looked like a 'curse' so much Aaron had to apologize after the backlash.
 
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Darius87

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Exaggeration much? What's next? Xbox fanboys saying Sony lied about their June event? They said they were going to do it 4th of June! How many other things will they lie about?
sony did have valid reason to postpone june 4th date and it was just for a week ms says it will do show every month and didn't deliver this month and reason is unknown? this type of behaviour is repeating because they can't keep theyr mouth shut.
 

Dibils2k

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i am gonna assume the June event was cancelled because of the backlash to the Inside Xbox, they didnt wanna have another show full of indies or smaller 3rd party games... i think they had to make sure that the next time you saw an event on XSX that it was impressive or atlest showed the big guns