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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

B_Boss

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i mean its clear they have a close relationship considering Unreal engine seems to be made with PS5 in mind :)
Well....wasn’t it (UE5) designed with both consoles + PC in mind yet showcased with what they felt was the more technically appropriate hardware


I guess we are going to have to get used to Alex covering PS5 content :/
Having "another show full of indies or smaller 3rd party games" wasn't the problem, it was having almost NO real gameplay in a showing touted as a gameplay show.... great logical fallacies and goalpost moving after the fact here. It was most likely planned as July from the beginning, but backlash to terrible Inside Xbox might have changed the content of this July show behind the scenes without us knowing the details, we will never know though.

God first 5 minutes and already he's throwing doubts all around and displays his intent of spreading FUD (one part of FUD is doubt and he says that a lot, so.....)
I just cannot stomach the guy and that is unfortunate lol. I avoid him like a serious and literal plague.

eh oh well. What's happening in here? GIF's of people without eyes? Clearly we are still on the rails in this thread.

Context is definitely key. The images just began as a reaction lol, nothing new here in terms of laughs. Gotta keep it light at times as well.
Damn....that is crazy and I’m very interested in where he’ll end up.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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It sounds like how many storage area network solutions I deal with use virtualization and fast cache solutions to reduce queuing for things like random I/O for massive databases / arrays of databases. Seen it take an environment that was crushed to one that had absolutely no performance issues. I won't pretend to know about the ins and outs of hardware at this low a level, but looking at the data and leaks it makes a lot of sense.
That's why having 12-channel, 1 channel per module, instead of 4-channel, 1 channel shared by 4 modules for 1TB, is a massive design made by Sony. Even high-end NVMe m.2 with 8-channel (1 channel for every 2 modules) would cause heat and latency, and above all of that PS5 enjoying 6 priority levels instead of 2 on NVMe.

You can't break physics with software.
 
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thebigmanjosh

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May 9, 2013
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Microsoft shutting down stores and pulling the plug on Mixer sounds like the kind of thing you do if you are looking through your books for opportunities to offset selling an expensive console at a loss.</p>&mdash; talkin&#39; bout Grubbsnax (@JeffGrubb) <a href="">June 29, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Much more likely it’s a result of ‪new fiscal year planning and expense reductions amongst a pandemic and economic collapse. Expect to see a rush of service cuts and layoffs over the next few weeks as orgs adjust to new FY budgets.
 
Aug 28, 2019
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Tom Warren formerly ran WinRumors, a Windows focused tech site. He's been sucking up to MS for a long ass time.

But really.. who cares? It's hobbyist press... generally full of people with biases.
 
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Fordino

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Well, I got eaten alive for stating this 1st tweet replying to Tom Warren's false misinformation.



This is one of the first things I thought when it was suggested Lockhart was only 4TF. An 8TF difference is huge and a lot of GPU power will be left over in games for Series X after the resolution and texture bumps from Lockhart.

For a game like Halo Infinite I'm thinking there will effectively be three (graphically) different versions across the four XBox systems.

Xbox One
- 1080p 60Hz (as Halo 5, but could be dynamic 720-1080p if the game is more ambitious than Halo 5, likely I suppose)
- No ray tracing (obviously)
- Low texture quality

Xbox One X and Lockhart (very similar versions as 6 GCN TF ≈ 4 RDNA2 TF)
- 1440p 60Hz (Halo 5 was native 4K on the One X, but I think Infinite will be more ambitious and will struggle at 4k on these systems, checkerboarding could be used for 4K)
- Minimal ray tracing on Lockhart only (nothing spectacular as RDNA2 ray tracing is proportional to CU count)
- Medium texture quality (Lockhart is rumoured to have less memory than One X, but the game engine will likely load textures on demand (closer to when needed) with the SDD, meaning less textures will be held in memory on Lockhart)

Xbox Series X (8TF advantage over Lockhart)
- 4K 60Hz
- Ray traced shadows and reflections at least (low resolution)
- Heavy use of particle effects (like Ratchet & Clank)
- High texture quality (4K, or even 8K?!)
- Much more scenery detail, such as foliage

CPU wise, the AI, physics, etc, for all versions will likely be restricted due to the XBox One's CPU.

I'm definitely getting a PS5 at launch, but will be tempted to also get a Lockhart if it's a low price and can run a decent Halo game at 1440p-4k. Will wait for Digital Foundry's analysis :messenger_grinning:
 

roops67

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They can use a large centrifugal fan design, like seen in pretty much all laptops, that will funnel air onto the heatsinks.
This is why I believe Sony will use axial fans in the PS5, which will be more efficient at funneling air and cooling both the front and back side of the apu as per the Sony patent.
The cooling is gonna be intrigueng for sure. Centrifugal fan would be a logical fit for the PS5 form factor, but it won't have the airflow as the axial fan. If they went for a row of small axial fans (like the devkit) I would imagine that would be pretty loud due to the many motor bearings
The XSX cooling is a nice solution cos it's straightforward, just one giant fan pulling the air through the whole system
My guess for PS5 could be a single motor between two impellers cooling both sides of the board
Or double vapour chambers and heat pipes carrying away heat to a single block cooled by a axial fan, this may be too expensive
But would be nice to see if they came up with something more exotic to match the PS5 architecture. Cerny has hinted the cooling will be different from the norm. Ideas anyone?

And there's this thing called the 'air bearing heat exchanger', don't know why it hasn't hit the market yet it's been in development since 2011...
 
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By-mission

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[QUOTE = "Snowdonhoffen, postagem: 259015539, membro: 787092"]
3.5 vs. 3.6 Ghz = "ISTO ESTÁ ATENDO A TODA A INDÚSTRIA!"
10.28 vs. 12.15 TF = "ISTO ESTÁ ATENDO A TODA A INDÚSTRIA!"
4 vs. 12.15 / 10.28 TF = "Sim, cara, não há problema, eles são quase os mesmos aqui"
[/CITAR]
My question is FUD comeback?


 
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Neo Blaster

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I saw this making the rounds on Twitter. Outside of the Minecraft Dungeons announcement, this post doesn't read like a fan-fic, and seems very plausible, IMO.


Forza 8 is XSX's exclusive? So no Forza for 2 years? And why so many current gen games in a next gen event?

I call it BS.
 
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Yams

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Forza 8 is XSX's exclusive? So no Forza for 2 years? And why so many current gen games in a next gen event?

I call it BS.
It's probably BS. However, if the July event is a stand-in for Microsoft's E3 presentation, it makes complete sense.
 

Crimson_Fate

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Well, I got eaten alive for stating this 1st tweet replying to Tom Warren's false misinformation.

I agree with you in that the CPU Dictates what games can be run and the GPU determines resolution and level of detail. The PS4 PRO had a faster processor then the PS4 and in that case the PS4 really did hold the PRO back. Devs could make "Pro enhanced versions" if they desired but the base game play was always dictated by what the PS4 could do on its CPU.

If Lockhart has the same CPU then the only difference between it and the XSX will be the resoution /level of detail.

The XBOX DEVS will likely develop for the highest detail on XSX/PC then adjust the graphical settings to work on Lockhart. So yea Lockhart is a just resolution box and I see nothing wrong with that . I have an 10 year old PC which my nephew uses to play fortnight, It uses the lowest setting but it runs. My 10 year old PC is not holding back the devs and neither will lockhart . The only thing holding the XSX back is the BC with PC/Windows.

The Xbox consoles aren't my cup of tea (I have a better PC for that) but for the vast majority of people who don't game on PC and just want to play a PC game where resolution is not a problem then the Lockhart will do just fine.

By Comparison the PS5/DE will be able to deliver game experiences not available on the XSX or PC through the Speed of its SSD, the Sound Quality of Tempest , the PSVR/2 and ultimately and most importantly the quality of their game development teams.
 

Sinthor

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Well, CLEARLY, he, along with the rest of Microsoft, are TERRIFIED of the new PS5. The rats are fleeing the sinking ship!

JUST KIDDING! On a serious note, that IS a really big departure. After 15 years it's not a surprise to have someone move on but this will obviously leave a big gap when potentially, they may need that experience and leadership the most. Will be interesting to see who they pick to fill the spot. That's almost certainly planned already so I'd expect an announcement soon. If they DON'T have succession planned already then I would be more concerned that this could impact them.
 
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Metroiddarks

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Well, I got eaten alive for stating this 1st tweet replying to Tom Warren's false misinformation.



Tom please apply for be community manager for Xbox .... not wait Phil doesn't deserve so dumb guy in his team.

Everytime I read the word TF in Sony or Microsoft marketing a part of me dies .... my fucking god any fucking dev use flop as metric
for anything is not so fucking easy optimize a workload. I swear if in some moment I interview someone and during the interview she/he
told me she/he cannot do something without know the flops of the gpu or the clock of the cpu the interview ends in that moment and
probably laugh.
Wonderful stuff as usual from this channel:

If I remember correctly Ubisoft invert much money in this specially in things like the physics of the clothes, so in this way you can have a large crowd
with low penalty in your CPU.
This is one of the first things I thought when it was suggested Lockhart was only 4TF. An 8TF difference is huge and a lot of GPU power will be left over in games for Series X after the resolution and texture bumps from Lockhart.

For a game like Halo Infinite I'm thinking there will effectively be three (graphically) different versions across the four XBox systems.

Xbox One
- 1080p 60Hz (as Halo 5, but could be dynamic 720-1080p if the game is more ambitious than Halo 5, likely I suppose)
- No ray tracing (obviously)
- Low texture quality

Xbox One X and Lockhart (very similar versions as 6 GCN TF ≈ 4 RDNA2 TF)
- 1440p 60Hz (Halo 5 was native 4K on the One X, but I think Infinite will be more ambitious and will struggle at 4k on these systems, checkerboarding could be used for 4K)
- Minimal ray tracing on Lockhart only (nothing spectacular as RDNA2 ray tracing is proportional to CU count)
- Medium texture quality (Lockhart is rumoured to have less memory than One X, but the game engine will likely load textures on demand (closer to when needed) with the SDD, meaning less textures will be held in memory on Lockhart)

Xbox Series X (8TF advantage over Lockhart)
- 4K 60Hz
- Ray traced shadows and reflections at least (low resolution)
- Heavy use of particle effects (like Ratchet & Clank)
- High texture quality (4K, or even 8K?!)
- Much more scenery detail, such as foliage

CPU wise, the AI, physics, etc, for all versions will likely be restricted due to the XBox One's CPU.

I'm definitely getting a PS5 at launch, but will be tempted to also get a Lockhart if it's a low price and can run a decent Halo game at 1440p-4k. Will wait for Digital Foundry's analysis :messenger_grinning:
Xbox one:
-30 fps, I mean is the best way you take advantage of the new XSX,XSS CPU
-900p dynamic

Xbox one X :
-60 fps the game will underutilize the XSX,XSX CPU but less than have a base version running in that framerate
-1440p dynamic
-Textures improve but not in next gen level
-4k 30 fps ?

XSS:
-60 fps
-1440p
-4k 30 fps ?
-RT sound, shadow and probably some RT reflection for selected objects in the level (like RC)
-Better textures and models
-More dynamic lights in scene
-More particles
-Better physics always is not necessary for the gameplay design
-Loading screens so short that can be hide in easy way or just quickly loading screen

XSX:
-Same as XSS but in 4k
-Better textures

As Halo Infinite in my opinion born to be a game for Xbox one X so more easier for the studio to make increment for the versions of XSS,XSX the hard
part is the base Xbox one.

I will buy XSX for this game but I don't expect this game really represent of what the Xbox studios can do, probably only the second party games
and first party the games with release in 2022 will show it.
 

ksdixon

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Jul 31, 2010
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I still just don't get the point of Lockheart.

Between the XB1X and Remote Play/XCloud Streaming of GamePass from your mobile when paired with an Xbox controller being a thing... just whom is Lockheart supposed to be marketed to?

Anyone wanting a cheaper Xbox console, rather than the power narrative of the SX, will already have either an XB1/1S, or will settle for XCloud on their phones.
 

Dibils2k

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Jan 25, 2018
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I saw this making the rounds on Twitter. Outside of the Minecraft Dungeons announcement, this post doesn't read like a fan-fic, and seems very plausible, IMO.


have these kinda leaks EEEEEVVVVVEEEEEERRR been correct? fuck no

literally never have we seen a "leak" list match with a real event. Why do people keep spreading this stuff
 
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Mirumi

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Apr 4, 2020
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I still just don't get the point of Lockheart.

Between the XB1X and Remote Play/XCloud Streaming of GamePass from your mobile when paired with an Xbox controller being a thing... just whom is Lockheart supposed to be marketed to?

Anyone wanting a cheaper Xbox console, rather than the power narrative of the SX, will already have either an XB1/1S, or will settle for XCloud on their phones.
So, I am a neo, please no flame.

Lockhart I want to know if it even has a disc drive. It could be also a digital edition and marketed as one. BUT if it has a disc, then it would be a great market to players like me. I have never owned an Xbox, but the BC speaks to me as a chance to get to play some exclusives I have missed out on being team Blue and Red.

For example, I want to play the two Ori games. BUT i want physical copies which don't exist on the switch. I also don't want to shell out large amounts for the XSX when I don't care about their normal exclusives (Halo, forza, gears) and I still intend to use PS for my third party (for friends, trophies, ecosystem). So I can see lockhart appealing to:

Xbox users that skipped X1 due to PS4 being so dominate
First time potential Xbox users that want to invest less
Budget gamers
 

xacto

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I still just don't get the point of Lockheart.

Between the XB1X and Remote Play/XCloud Streaming of GamePass from your mobile when paired with an Xbox controller being a thing... just whom is Lockheart supposed to be marketed to?

Anyone wanting a cheaper Xbox console, rather than the power narrative of the SX, will already have either an XB1/1S, or will settle for XCloud on their phones.
Microsoft probably thinks that undercutting Sony with a cheaper console will help them sell more units. Time will tell if that will work out for them, but I don't think it will. It's a bit like throwing different things at a wall and see what sticks.
 

ksdixon

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Microsoft probably thinks that undercutting Sony with a cheaper console will help them sell more units. Time will tell if that will work out for them, but I don't think it will. It's a bit like throwing different things at a wall and see what sticks.
They're running out of battlegrounds. Having the power narrative didn't help when we look at XB1X vs PS4 Pro, for example.
 

LED Guy?

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Apr 21, 2019
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Why would games suddenly run at 1620p on XSX exactly?
I said that as an example, not the rule, because in the future, you’ll be seeing games running at those lower resolutions because game engines get more powerful, more sophisticated, so I don’t see a 1620p or even 1440p resolution at 30 FPS being out of the picture on XSX, because we all know developers will push these consoles so hard.

So if those resolution were targeted for XSX, then what the heck is Series S (Lockhart) is gonna do? Run at 720p? So they’ll just downgrade games’ baselines because we all know developers won’t be making different lighting solutions, textures, character models, amount of vegetation, overall geometry just to accommodate for Lockhart & then make XSX a different set of character models, different LODs, different level geometry etc etc..., so developers will downgrade their games in order to make sure their games run properly on Lockhart 1st THEN on XSX, Because we certainly know Lockhart will sell way more than XSX because it’ll be much cheaper, so developers won’t be doing this, they’ll have to make sure that Lockhart is running well at least 1080p/1440p, making it the baseline for next-gen consoles, which will make XSX just a resolution box.

It sucks to see this kind of stuff, I would like to see Digital Foundry’s John Linneman’s D dark10x thoughts on all this, because that DF video they’ve made didn’t really tackle these certain predicaments/situations that I’ve mentioned.

John, please read this comment if you ever see it.
 
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B_Boss

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Jul 15, 2013
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I get a 5 minute limit to edit it, is that normal?

Oh what the..., Just noticed I can edit them now after the 5min limit. Hmmm something's changed on my account, but I'm not complaining :messenger_winking:
I believe you’re were a “neo member” earlier and you are now a member with regular member access to edits, etc. Congratulations, you’ve taken your first step into a larger world lol 🍻.
 
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lepermessiah

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Mar 2, 2020
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Let's isolate one single clock or TF metric and hold that as the sole determining factor of scaling and performance because I aM AuThoRiTy.

Masters in computer science/programming? Nah I have a twitter account, PhD in FUD and a good dose of dunning-kruger so I am authority.
 
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Fordino

Neo Member
Jan 18, 2020
35
145
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Tom please apply for be community manager for Xbox .... not wait Phil doesn't deserve so dumb guy in his team.

Everytime I read the word TF in Sony or Microsoft marketing a part of me dies .... my fucking god any fucking dev use flop as metric
for anything is not so fucking easy optimize a workload. I swear if in some moment I interview someone and during the interview she/he
told me she/he cannot do something without know the flops of the gpu or the clock of the cpu the interview ends in that moment and
probably laugh.

If I remember correctly Ubisoft invert much money in this specially in things like the physics of the clothes, so in this way you can have a large crowd
with low penalty in your CPU.

Xbox one:
-30 fps, I mean is the best way you take advantage of the new XSX,XSS CPU
-900p dynamic

Xbox one X :
-60 fps the game will underutilize the XSX,XSX CPU but less than have a base version running in that framerate
-1440p dynamic
-Textures improve but not in next gen level
-4k 30 fps ?

XSS:
-60 fps
-1440p
-4k 30 fps ?
-RT sound, shadow and probably some RT reflection for selected objects in the level (like RC)
-Better textures and models
-More dynamic lights in scene
-More particles
-Better physics always is not necessary for the gameplay design
-Loading screens so short that can be hide in easy way or just quickly loading screen

XSX:
-Same as XSS but in 4k
-Better textures

As Halo Infinite in my opinion born to be a game for Xbox one X so more easier for the studio to make increment for the versions of XSS,XSX the hard
part is the base Xbox one.

I will buy XSX for this game but I don't expect this game really represent of what the Xbox studios can do, probably only the second party games
and first party the games with release in 2022 will show it.
It never crossed my mind that they could target Halo Infinite at 30fps on some versions of the game. Doesn't the Halo series pride itself for being 60fps?

I think 343 Industries and Microsoft will want to keep it at 60fps, with reduced (or dynamic) resolutions compared to Halo 5 maybe. Multiplayer is also a strong reason to keep them all at 60fps.

A lot of it depends how they started, did they design the game with the Xbox One as a base, continuing from Halo 5, or did they actually target those much higher specs (as you say) for the Series X four or so years ago.
 
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martino

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Apr 25, 2013
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I saw this making the rounds on Twitter. Outside of the Minecraft Dungeons announcement, this post doesn't read like a fan-fic, and seems very plausible, IMO.


I think i need to prepare for a lack of gameplay disappointment again especially if there is only multiplayer gameplay for halo.
But because of no loading at all for fable i'm in huge doubt.

They're running out of battlegrounds. Having the power narrative didn't help when we look at XB1X vs PS4 Pro, for example.
power for mid refresh is an incomparable context though.
 
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sircaw

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A local pond.
So, I am a neo, please no flame.

Lockhart I want to know if it even has a disc drive. It could be also a digital edition and marketed as one. BUT if it has a disc, then it would be a great market to players like me. I have never owned an Xbox, but the BC speaks to me as a chance to get to play some exclusives I have missed out on being team Blue and Red.

For example, I want to play the two Ori games. BUT i want physical copies which don't exist on the switch. I also don't want to shell out large amounts for the XSX when I don't care about their normal exclusives (Halo, forza, gears) and I still intend to use PS for my third party (for friends, trophies, ecosystem). So I can see lockhart appealing to:

Xbox users that skipped X1 due to PS4 being so dominate
First time potential Xbox users that want to invest less
Budget gamers
DIE YOU PIECE OF SCUM!

Welcome to the board m8. :messenger_beaming:
I hope you have a sense of humour, its needed here, hugs.
 

Mirumi

Neo Member
Apr 4, 2020
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DIE YOU PIECE OF SCUM!

Welcome to the board m8. :messenger_beaming:
I hope you have a sense of humour, its needed here, hugs.
I have one, and I have lurked here for many years before making an account. I actually made this account to post in a friendly thread about "say one good thing about the other company" because I prefer healthy console warring that debates great features the other company does. Alas, there was a waiting period and I have since lost that thread.....

With that said, I felt good to post why I, a long term Sony/Nintendo person would even consider getting the Lockhart as it is appropriate to one of the posts I want to make here once I get Member status.
 

sircaw

Member
Jul 3, 2019
1,018
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A local pond.
I have one, and I have lurked here for many years before making an account. I actually made this account to post in a friendly thread about "say one good thing about the other company" because I prefer healthy console warring that debates great features the other company does. Alas, there was a waiting period and I have since lost that thread.....

With that said, I felt good to post why I, a long term Sony/Nintendo person would even consider getting the Lockhart as it is appropriate to one of the posts I want to make here once I get Member status.
Here is my two cents and it will not be popular with a lot of people here but here goes. As you can see by my profile picture, i win beauty contests not intellectual debates :messenger_beaming: .

I am all for lockheart, why cos it's cheap as chips.

Being able to play the best xbox games, which include ori, grim dawn, halo , forza, new fable, all the gears etc for say around £200 pounds if the rumours are true is beyond awesome.

Knowing microsoft they will include a month or 3 months free with the console and boom you have your gamepass.
You could knock out all those games over the holiday.

However, saying that, i just feel that the ps5 and its game ecosystem are just superior in terms of quality design, and when i say this its by a long shot.

The features they are offering, the advanced haptics, the sound engine, ssd are just superior to Microsoft's offerings. Thats not including the game studious, which lets face it Sony's are the best. Microsoft are offering gaming+ while Sony are offering gaming +++

If people are on an extreme budget, which i am, the necessity for a cheap console is a god send. That's why i will not throw to much shade at it.

However, if you can scrape enough cash together, rob your granny et, sell kitten coats etc, i would tell people to try and save abit more for a ps5.

I don't feel there is really a bad choice in the end, its kinda do i go with product 1 which is an a or product no 2 which is a b.

Hope this helps, it probably did not.
 

sircaw

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A local pond.
Crash Bandicoot 4 has 15 millions views, i knew that Crash is big and it's actually even bigger than i though.

It's my favorite plateformer character so cool see the franchise very beloved. The game's looking too good and i can't wait for this.

Music is spot on for that imo.
Never played a crash game but it looks good.
 
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DrDamn

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Feb 19, 2013
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Forza 8 is XSX's exclusive? So no Forza for 2 years? And why so many current gen games in a next gen event?

I call it BS.
Yeah that stuck out to me as the biggest point of nope. Forza 8 has to be this year doesn't it? The no exclusives thing was 1-2 years wasn't it? So feasibly it could be holiday 2021, but nah, they'll get something out this year and it will be cross-gen.

So I can see lockhart appealing to:

Xbox users that skipped X1 due to PS4 being so dominate
First time potential Xbox users that want to invest less
Budget gamers
I can see it appealing as a second console too, or for people where attaching it to a 4K TV simply isn't an option. So XSX in the living room with the big 4K TV, XSS in the study/den/spare room for secondary use.

Realistically I don't think any of those reasons are big enough for it's existence unless a) the XSX is going to be very expensive ($600) or b) the XSS is going to be comparatively cheap ($300 or less).
 
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Mirumi

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I mean I agree with you on a lot of things there Sircaw. I am getting the PS5 Disc version first. If there is no disc version because of low stock or i missed preorders, I will hold out until one is there.

Gamepass itself is meaningless to me; I don't care for digital games, and Honestly, even if I wanted those, I would play them on my high powered PC. What appeals to me is BC. I have seen a lot of talk about LockHart, but no one talking if it will be a Disc based system or a Digital system. I think that is an overlooked feature that may be a key selling point to drive against the PS5 DE. If Lockhart is discless, then I will put Xbox on the backburner until XSX price drives down.