• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

sircaw

Member
Jul 3, 2019
3,517
16,859
585
A local pond.
I am getting seriously concerned for all the people who can't let go of the "power advantage" narrative and keep chugging it over and over and over in so called "arguments", as if they're trying to ascert a sense of dominance. That shit is NOT healthy. I play games for fun, not to boost my ego or put others down. I couldn't care less about having a weaker or stronger gaming platform of choice as long as I enjoy its particular games. For christ's sake, I really hope the suppression techniques, bickering and trash talking won't go on for the entire PS5/XSX generation.
IT MEANS EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
to some.
 

SatansReverence

Hipster Princess
Mar 30, 2012
4,647
2,673
915
Australia
www.neogaf.com
You are going to be sorely disappointed when you are basing all your arguments on just one figure 12 > 10 . With reduced CPU L3 cache and gimped CU's within the GPU so they can fit all their precious CU's on the die, and gimped memory bandwidth... It's highly unlikely XSX will come close to that stated theoritical maximum TF's with all the cutbacks they made in all their components!
Such riveting fan fiction.

Do try to back it up with facts.

Well that would happen if the components are actually at load (power usage) not utilization. The utilization just means it's not idle.
You clearly have zero concept of what stress testing is.

Doubt do you know the speed of your clock during running a normal benchmark against one with only AVX instructions?
All core boost of an 8700k is 4.3 ghz

Man, I already (metaphorically) broke your back on my previous reply... don't make drink your spinal fluid now, just let it go... it's over :messenger_sunglasses:
Imagine thinking your pathetic evidence of a passively cooled system throttling was actually some sort of "MiC dRoP" when in reality you just showed everyone either A) How little you understand or B) How willing you are to bullshit your way through an argument.

And no, there was no performance lost, at all. Temps Stable to within 2 degrees, average frame rate, stable even with hitches due to doing other things while the stress test was being performed. Sound, audible wooshing, could still hear a mouse fart though.




MIC

D
R
O
P
P
E
D
 
Last edited:

Sinthor

Gold Member
Jun 6, 2013
1,257
4,238
850
Phoenix, AZ.
www.woodchuckproductions.net

What a MASTER in the Spin skill. Goddamn!!! LOL
Well, this isn't a huge surprise. Microsoft is just trying to do with gaming, what they did with MS-DOS and Windows. Make it about the PLATFORM, and not about the specific hardware. They don't WANT you to focus on the XSX or even the XB1 or whatever you own. That doesn't help them that much anyway, since Sony has dominated sales in the hardware arena. What WILL help Microsoft, is if they successfully make developers create games for the 'Xbox platform' instead. So you can run a game you buy on your phone, then on your original Xbox or Xbox One, or on the new XSX that you have. That lets them count ALL THOSE MACHINES they sold in the past as their "user base." So instead of trying to convince say EA to develop some new game for hardware that they sold 40 million of but that Sony sold 100+ million of, they can tell EA that their whole platform user base is...200 million or whatever it is. They hope that they can get more developer support that way and also attract more users with the "run your game anywhere" philosophy.

So not really surprising coming from MS. I'm very curious how this will affect developers and their games however, or whether it will affect them at all. But bottom line, this is Microsoft trying to leverage the hardware they have sold to the fullest and by getting away from a generational approach they also hope to not have to compete with Sony on a basis of units sold. IMHO anyway.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out!
 

welshrat

Member
Apr 28, 2015
63
76
320
I am getting seriously concerned for all the people who can't let go of the "power advantage" narrative and keep chugging it over and over and over in so called "arguments", as if they're trying to ascert a sense of dominance. That shit is NOT healthy. I play games for fun, not to boost my ego or put others down. I couldn't care less about having a weaker or stronger gaming platform of choice as long as I enjoy its particular games. For christ's sake, I really hope the suppression techniques, bickering and trash talking won't go on for the entire PS5/XSX generation.
It's kids, its what they do. No idea of your age but at 43 I have exactly the same feeling, I guess it helps with age comes financial independence so that I can buy what I want without bias. I have exactly the same feeling as you and simply love gaming whatever the platform.
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
Jun 6, 2013
1,257
4,238
850
Phoenix, AZ.
www.woodchuckproductions.net
It's kids, its what they do. No idea of your age but at 43 I have exactly the same feeling, I guess it helps with age comes financial independence so that I can buy what I want without bias. I have exactly the same feeling as you and simply love gaming whatever the platform.
Unfortunately it's not just kids. But it's an extension of the 'tribal' psychology that humans seem to run afoul of. From identifying with sports teams even to the extent that 'WE won the game!' when they're not on the field, to the 'Ford vs. Chevy' types of arguments. People tend to emotionally invest in choices they make and 'memberships' they perceive that they have when they buy certain products. Especially when it comes to purchases, everyone wants to feel and believe that they made the best choice- the RIGHT choice. After all....if they didn't buy the best product, wouldn't that make them STUPID? NO ONE wants to feel stupid! So we tend to place higher importance on these choices and purchases and it becomes a tribal loyalty. Just as in real life, people will fight over their tribal memberships and it's no different in this case, even when we're just talking about hunks of plastic and silicon. Actually there's probably MORE investment in video game consoles and systems due to the interactive nature of the medium and also how much time we tend to spend with the games. That all attracts people and can serve to make them defend those choices even more vigorously. Let's face it though, we all know people that are rabid fans and defenders of just about everything. TV brands, car brands, computer brands, sports teams...all the way to countries and true tribal memberships. They are all different aspects of the same kind of tribal loyalty.

Sometimes age or other factors that advance maturity may let people escape this tribal loyalty to their purchases, but not always. It's definitely a smaller percentage of people that can separate themselves from this tendency as well.
 

sircaw

Member
Jul 3, 2019
3,517
16,859
585
A local pond.
Unfortunately it's not just kids. But it's an extension of the 'tribal' psychology that humans seem to run afoul of. From identifying with sports teams even to the extent that 'WE won the game!' when they're not on the field, to the 'Ford vs. Chevy' types of arguments. People tend to emotionally invest in choices they make and 'memberships' they perceive that they have when they buy certain products. Especially when it comes to purchases, everyone wants to feel and believe that they made the best choice- the RIGHT choice. After all....if they didn't buy the best product, wouldn't that make them STUPID? NO ONE wants to feel stupid! So we tend to place higher importance on these choices and purchases and it becomes a tribal loyalty. Just as in real life, people will fight over their tribal memberships and it's no different in this case, even when we're just talking about hunks of plastic and silicon. Actually there's probably MORE investment in video game consoles and systems due to the interactive nature of the medium and also how much time we tend to spend with the games. That all attracts people and can serve to make them defend those choices even more vigorously. Let's face it though, we all know people that are rabid fans and defenders of just about everything. TV brands, car brands, computer brands, sports teams...all the way to countries and true tribal memberships. They are all different aspects of the same kind of tribal loyalty.

Sometimes age or other factors that advance maturity may let people escape this tribal loyalty to their purchases, but not always. It's definitely a smaller percentage of people that can separate themselves from this tendency as well.
I am almost fifty years old and i enjoy a good laugh most of the time, At my age my body basically looks like a dustbin so i have to get my kicks somewhere else. :messenger_grimmacing_

i enjoy humour. I love to joke around and try to make people have a good time, i welcome banter, regardless if its xbox or sony . Most of my posts have some sort of silly edge to them, but the tribalism of late, its out of control.

I get people's devotion to their plastic preferences but i almost feel some of the things going on are actually paid for. I am not joking either, i seriously think there are a couple of people about that are getting a hand out for their efforts in slagging off the opposition.

For example i wont mention his name, as its not console related but there is a certain intel guy on this forums that is so far against the grain, he has to be being payed for his efforts, a shill. I suspect there are a couple here.
 
Last edited:
Jun 12, 2014
350
955
495

What a MASTER in the Spin skill. Goddamn!!! LOL
This guy is pathetic.. so now he is saying that Xbox series x and s will not have exclusives? This guy is all bullshit.. wait one more week and another interview and him talking about series x having exclusives again..

Embarrassing.... And what is funny is that some people eat this up with a smile...
 
Last edited:

Dodkrake

Gold Member
Feb 28, 2020
1,039
3,798
485
Xbone will not hold back XBSX in spite of games having to run on both. Pc scalability proves that.

Then reality hits hard, and you see that of a game is DESIGNED for an SSD, it will not run properly on an HDD


Suffice to say, if you need to design with the HDD in mind, you are already holding back the platform that uses the SSD.

A toddler could figure this out.
 

Dave_at_Home

Member
Jun 19, 2020
535
1,488
365
It's kids, its what they do. No idea of your age but at 43 I have exactly the same feeling, I guess it helps with age comes financial independence so that I can buy what I want without bias. I have exactly the same feeling as you and simply love gaming whatever the platform.
As a 34 year old, I too remember the days of arguing over the power of the PS2 versus Dreamcast. Also whether or not the N64 was truly 64bit. The good old days of being stupid and petty when you're a kid. Doesn't matter what the price for these new systems are considering I'll be spending over a grand on a new TV anyway. If Sony nails the next PSVR2 and actually gets AAA studios to produce content, than I'm sold on that as well. SOMEONE GIVE ME ACE COMBAT 4 AND 5 IN VR PLEASE! I KNOW IT'S METAL GEAR SOLID OF THE SKY, BUT I LIKE IT!
 

Setsuna Mudou

Member
May 29, 2020
390
2,133
415
Such riveting fan fiction.

Do try to back it up with facts.



You clearly have zero concept of what stress testing is.



All core boost of an 8700k is 4.3 ghz



Imagine thinking your pathetic evidence of a passively cooled system throttling was actually some sort of "MiC dRoP" when in reality you just showed everyone either A) How little you understand or B) How willing you are to bullshit your way through an argument.

And no, there was no performance lost, at all. Temps Stable to within 2 degrees, average frame rate, stable even with hitches due to doing other things while the stress test was being performed. Sound, audible wooshing, could still hear a mouse fart though.




MIC

D
R
O
P
P
E
D
Oh well, spinal fluid it is then.

The entire argument that you hijacked with the other poster referred to a pseudo "all day everyday at 100% load" and how that supposedly is some sort of sustainable or even desirable scenario when compared to shifting clocks as per workload requirements.

In your eagerness to disagree, you failed to address the original claim. I'm not taking it personally, this is clearly a pattern of behavior.

So when you fail to address the argument that was in place, you try some gotcha drive by posting, thinking it was an unfalsifiable claim, only to be shot down within minutes. You can take as many screenshots as you would like from your desktop (snipping a temp for a particular moment in time). Depending on the benchmark, a particularly heavy workload will bring even a top tier GPU to its knees, as long as the test runs for long enough time. GPUs are throttles due to thermals AND due to excessive power consumption. Wear and tear is a real thing on silicone, much more so for an APU (when compared to a $800+ GPU with triple fans wind tunneling it).

Anyway, go ahead, run the same test I linked you to. And please do run it "all day everyday" like the other poster mentioned. Let's see the FPS delta between start of the test and the end.

Go on... I'll wait :coffee::cool:
 

SgtCaffran

Member
Nov 8, 2019
188
780
285
Anyway, go ahead, run the same test I linked you to. And please do run it "all day everyday" like the other poster mentioned. Let's see the FPS delta between start of the test and the end.

Go on... I'll wait :coffee::cool:
Come on same goes for you as well: let's keep it on topic. Nobody here cares for PC stress test results... I hope?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

Setsuna Mudou

Member
May 29, 2020
390
2,133
415
Come on same goes for you as well: let's keep it on topic. Nobody here cares for PC stress test results... I hope?
Lol, sure, I suggested dropping the topic at least twice but kept seeing multiple snipes from the same user, obviously I will respond at some point.

I'm disengaging though, no point talking to a brick wall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

Bladed Thesis

Member
Jun 7, 2019
1,522
3,724
445
My PS4’s been REALLY fuckin loud lately, so I look at the sides of the box where cool air gets pulled in first and lo and behold...




Any ideas on how to safely clean this lol
Nothing personal but this would drive me insane. I clean my electronics all the time because I'm particular about that stuff. External harddrives, PS4, X1X, Switch, PC, laptop, all of them.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
Jan 30, 2020
524
1,343
435
Oxfordshire, England

What a smart investment Sony made! Now multiplats will have advantage on PS5 with UE5 using PS5's perks! Nailing it in 1st party and 3rd party! More timed exclusives! Better optimization! That's how you spend your money, if you have "any".
Has it been confirmed what Sony were paying for, yet? If not - off the back of that wonky looking 60hz Star wars TV show using UE for cgi - I would speculate that the deal is for Sony's cgi film making to use UE5 liberally, and still get full support for features, or the investment is to help Eoic diversify into cgi software at the top tier level with much less risk, and Sony is investing to get a cut of the licensing, along with software geared towards Sony Pictures way of doing cgi so they can save money on film production - maybe with a PS5 derivative finally being the successful video toaster solution that didn't workout with the PS2 and PS3 attempts.

With Sony, Epic and AMD all being so close, it seemed weird that AMD named their top tier SoC tech Epyc back in 2017, I wonder if it is a just coincidence or a tipping of the hat in Epic's direction.
 
Last edited:

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
7,139
37,050
860
34
Salalah, Oman
Has it been confirmed what Sony were paying for, yet? If not - off the back of that wonky looking 60hz Star wars TV show using UE for cgi - I would speculate that the deal is for Sony's cgi film making to use UE5 liberally, and still get full support for features, or the investment is to help Eoic diversify into cgi software at the top tier level with much less risk, and Sony is investing to get a cut of the licensing, along with software geared towards Sony Pictures way of doing cgi so they can save money on film production - maybe with a PS5 derivative finally being the successful video toaster solution that didn't workout with the PS2 and PS3 attempts.

With Sony, Epic and AMD all being so close, it seemed weird that AMD named their top tier SoC tech Eypc back in 2017, I wonder if it is a just coincidence or a tipping of the hat in Epic's direction.
Hmm, would Sony buy them partially? You know, they got plenty of cash to spend and expand. HZD being around $22.5 I think on Epic Games store and $50 on Steam is telling something.

Sony has made a $250 million investment in Epic Games, the two companies announced on Thursday. The deal means Sony gets a 1.4 percent interest in the game development studio and publisher and gives Epic a valuation of $17.86 billion, reports VentureBeat.


I think that means even Gears and other xbox first party games? Sounds like they bought shares.
 
Last edited:

pawel86ck

Member
Jan 27, 2018
2,053
3,101
400
Is it so strange that there are claims that the PS5's design might actually allow it to outperform the Series X in certain scenarios?

Sony has developed so much custom hardware and has looked into every tiny detail of the whole flow of the console to minimise or eliminate bottlenecks.

Yes the XsX has 17% more TFlops. But the TFs don't give the full picture. In fact, it only gives a small part of the picture.
- TF count is theoretical. If you would flip all of the transistors
- Games never utilise the CPU and GPU for 100%
- Other bottlenecks can prevent the GPU to reach it's max theoretical performance

And still, people -including Microsoft, cringe - want to shout that the XsX is the more powerful console. The PS4 was 40% more powerful than the Xbox One and that barely showed in third party games! It's just such a small difference that I'm sure you could do blind viewing of 3rd party games and not be able to tell XsX from PS5.

It's actually quite simple, Microsoft went with a traditional console:
- Constant clocks, variable power
- High CU count, low clock speed
- Reasonably standard SSD
- Basically a beefed up Xbox One X (it was designed by the same team as well)

Playstation went their own unique way:
- Constant power, variable clocks
- Low CU count, high clock speed
- Super custom SSD with more lanes, less chips per lane, way more custom hardware
- Custom hardware to remove bottlenecks around CPU/GPU/RAM
- Concept that nobody has seen before
I/O on XSX is not standard. MS also thought about improving I/O, and that's why they build velocity architecture (hardware decompression chip, directstorage API, sampler feedback streaming) . SSD on XSX is slower compared to ultra fast PS5 SSD, but 2.4 GB/s on it's own is still fast and not bottlenecked like SSDs on PC currently. Of course these technologies will be ported to PC in the near future but currently I/O on XSX is clearly supperior compared to PC.

Also it's too early for such comparisons like yours. We know almost everything when it comes to PS5 architecture (even it's audio), but we are still waiting for full XSX architecture breakdown. Maybe MS also build some interesting custom chips in order to remove bottlenecks.
 
Last edited:

Apollo Helios

Member
Feb 27, 2020
663
3,734
520
Ok getting people cleared for this thread was clearly to make the thread more active/increase clicks/# of posts/$$$ etc but mods come, on it is getting ridiculous. Just look at how some say it is kinda a get back for calm months Sony fans had, it is like a calculated effort to just make this thread miserable, all discussions are for discussions' sake and nothing more, it is blatant trolling just for the kicks and why not? they are back and they are let back in, maybe it was a wink wink from the mods enabling this? That's kinda my feeling as of this moment seeing how for days there isn't a serious moderation in here where it was seriously needed.

I'm unwatching this thread, maybe will lurk to look if the mods take action etc. , but if not well there are other threads where I can enjoy posting with non-trolling friends, and I advise these people to do the same *you know who you are* see you in the civilized thread.
 

sircaw

Member
Jul 3, 2019
3,517
16,859
585
A local pond.
Ok getting people cleared for this thread was clearly to make the thread more active/increase clicks/# of posts/$$$ etc but mods come, on it is getting ridiculous. Just look at how some say it is kinda a get back for calm months Sony fans had, it is like a calculated effort to just make this thread miserable, all discussions are for discussions' sake and nothing more, it is blatant trolling just for the kicks and why not? they are back and they are let back in, maybe it was a wink wink from the mods enabling this? That's kinda my feeling as of this moment seeing how for days there isn't a serious moderation in here where it was seriously needed.

I'm unwatching this thread, maybe will lurk to look if the mods take action etc. , but if not well there are other threads where I can enjoy posting with non-trolling friends, and I advise these people to do the same *you know who you are* see you in the civilized thread.
You might be unwatching this thread, but i will be watching you.
Stalker extreme series here. :messenger_smiling_horns: NO ONE ESCAPES MY CLUTCHES Fins.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
Jan 30, 2020
524
1,343
435
Oxfordshire, England
Hmm, would Sony buy them partially? You know, they got plenty of cash to spend and expand. HZD being around $22.5 I think on Epic Games store and $50 on Steam is telling something.

Sony has made a $250 million investment in Epic Games, the two companies announced on Thursday. The deal means Sony gets a 1.4 percent interest in the game development studio and publisher and gives Epic a valuation of $17.86 billion, reports VentureBeat.


I think that means even Gears and other xbox first party games? Sounds like they bought shares.
I don't think PlayStation would do to the industry, what EA did with the acquisition of Renderware - at the end of the PS2 generation. If anything, Sony buying a stake might be more of defence against some competitor buying Epic - which could cause plenty of issues for PlayStation.

I think Epic can help Sony in other ways (maybe they have better options to sell Sony games on Epic store in China for instance, because of censorship) than it being a money-hatting of biased UE5 marketing for PS5 as some groups will now want to state is definitely true. I also think Sony can help Epic in other ways, like helping them to get the Epic store on an equal footing with other PC game marketplaces without the incentives they've used until now, and also help Epic get Unreal in other markets - like cinema CGI use.
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

Tiago07

Member
Dec 31, 2019
264
791
325
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

roops67

Member
Apr 24, 2020
241
1,225
295
B'ham, UK
I keep beating this drum over and over again. When you look at the Series X, it stands as a pretty traditional piece of hardware. I'm not saying this as a dis, Microsoft wants you in their ecosystem whether its, Series X, Lockheart, PC, or some streaming on a tablet. Looking at the Sony side of the equation, what is the best way for them to separate themselves from Microsoft, or even Nintendo? Virtual Reality. Simple as that. There's absolutely no doubt they have a PSVR2 headset waiting in the wings. When you look at the hardware, you see things like the insane SSD and I/O, along with other things like SmartShift. Not to mention they've not yet gone into more bespoke aspects like their coherency engine. I guarantee there's tweaks in there entirely related to VR performance. I mean the PS5 could have hardware built in that originally was inside the breakout box for the first PSVR. Could explain why it's so large, or it could be simply awesome cooling. We'll see.
What I learnt is the breakout box is only for 3D sound processing, the PS4 doesn't have dedicated sound hardware so the sound for PSVR would have taxed the CPU too much, PSVR needed all the resources of the PS4 to handle the graphics

Obviously this breakout box wouldn't be needed on the PS5. But most likely need an external wireless transceiver if that's the route they take with PSVR2 can't imagine they would integrate that into PS5, very costly. And maybe a HDMI passthrough breakout box, but more likely feasible they make a dedicated connector on the back of the PS5 specific for the PSVR2 hardware

Edit: on second thought can't see why not they just make the PSVR2 connection through WiFi , no extra hardware needed on PS5 side... jobs a good'n (y)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem and Rudius

saintjules

Member
Dec 20, 2019
2,280
7,549
485
Seems a bit early for me. But the sooner we get the price out of the way the better.

Really hope we seen the breakdown really soon.
I know, it's funny thinking it's early this time around lol. Previous generations, we'd already be pre-ordering a new console in June.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

Handy Fake

Member
Mar 2, 2014
4,331
3,317
680
Sunderland
Now we know what it'd look like if some characters from Warframe decided to release a christian rock album.
Oddly enough, I literally just happened across a live performance by the band Stryper when I fell down a YouTube rabbit hole there.
Entertaining few minutes sat with an eyebrow raised and a smirk pulling at my lips.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem