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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Setsuna Mudou

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The bottleneck is on the side of the ps5 .. you just listed out the specs which show that.

xbox gpu has 560 gb bandwith over 100gb more than the playstation GPU.

If the playstation gpu was really so fast that it could keep up with the xbox, the memory would be even more of a bottleneck
You don't need as much ram when you have instant asset loading straight from the SSD. You don't have to duplicate assets and load different LODs for the same asset, etc and store all that redundancy on RAM this time around.
How about we wait and see if there are indeed any memory bottlenecks after the consoles are out? From what I've seen so far I'm quite optimistic.
 

sircaw

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A local pond.
What you may be referring to is quantum tunnelling. Going to lengths smaller than 3nm the effects will be more apparent where electrons act more like waves than particles , in reality they're probability waves than actual point like particle (well actually everything is). Passing through barriers where they're not intended to, across parallel circuit tracks or jumping across the pn junction depletion layer within the transistor when it should be in an off state. Yes higher frequencies plays a part aswell. That's why the industry will be hitting against the laws of physics soon. That's as much detail I'm gonna go into it before I get things wrong, Google it its real interesting stuff ;)
Screw you Bill Nye wannabe. I failed science in high school, thanks for bringing back those traumatic memories.
 
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user1337

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You know one of the things I am excited about for the PS5, appart from all the upgrades they have already mentioned..... The WiFi card 😂.

Hate being stuck with 40-60 Mbps when my phone goes over 200 Mbps because it supports 5Ghz but my OG PS4 doesn't.

Looking forward to being able to use my full connection, on what I hope is an upgraded PSN services.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Wait wait.... so Tim Sweeney is a Sony "shill"???? Am i doing it right?

Thats been obvious forever. But remember the consensus here is only ms pays for shills, reviews, articles , and etc. Everything is done for Sony for free cuz its out of love.
That's how you spend your money, instead of spending $30 million on Ninja then close Mixer in few months and lose all that money. UE is the biggest engine in the world right now, used by game devs, scientists, and movie makers. Having a 1.4% cut is a smart way to do it, and a company as Sony could end up eating most of its shares in a few years.
 
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ToadMan

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This article is kind of weird. Spencer lists a whole set of hardware advances on PS5 - odd for a start - and then says exclusives are the problem next gen.

So this is MS setting out their stall for putting gamepass on Playstation?

I mean lead by example, let XGS compete on every platform.

This gen we've seen a lot of erosion of the barriers from the PS360 gen - cross play is a thing - something that seemed unlikely just a few years ago. BC, Cross buy, PSNow, major Sony exclusives trickling on to PC.

A lot of traditional "barriers" are falling very quickly.

If MS believe exclusives are an impediment to the market - then just release those XGS games on PlayStation. Sony will be forced to respond by opening up their exclusives to other platforms to maintain game revenue and the realignment of the gaming space will be complete.
 

sircaw

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A local pond.
That's how you spend your money, instead of spending $30 million on Ninja then close Mixer in few months and lose all that money. UE is the biggest engine in the world right now, used by game devs, scientist, and movie makers. Having a 1.4% cut is a smart way to do it, and a company as Sony could end up eating most of its shares in a few years.
Ouch,
 

sircaw

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A local pond.
This article is kind of weird. Spencer lists a whole set of hardware advances on PS5 - odd for a start - and then says exclusives are the problem next gen.

So this is MS setting out their stall for putting gamepass on Playstation?

I mean lead by example, let XGS compete on every platform.

This gen we've seen a lot of erosion of the barriers from the PS360 gen - cross play is a thing - something that seemed unlikely just a few years ago. BC, Cross buy, PSNow, major Sony exclusives trickling on to PC.

A lot of traditional "barriers" are falling very quickly.

If MS believe exclusives are an impediment to the market - then just release those XGS games on PlayStation. Sony will be forced to respond by opening up their exclusives to other platforms to maintain game revenue and the realignment of the gaming space will be complete.
NO, no one would buy xbox hardware anymore, and everyone would buy a ps5.
I don't want to see Dealer and Colteastwood cheering for the ps5 tomorrow..
 
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These kinds of arguments are as old as consoles themselves. Didn't you notice it during the entirety of this current gen or the PS3/360 era, or in every other era? It's a constant.

Power is a key element of these technologies. It's important.

I guess people tend not to notice it if the advantage favours their preferred console. Those supporting the less-powerful console tend to not like it to be mentioned at all, as it's all a bit inconvenient.
I have noticed the arguments getting more toxic, as if everything is escalating. My low-key feeling is that someone will get killed over this childish garbage one day :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I can't see how "power" is "important" beyond marketing gimmicks. I really can't. The gap between PS5 and SXS isn't big enough to warrant outcry and the few present, somewhat interesting differences are yet to be fully explored with real world results, but people still keep dishing out full authority arm chair assertions as if they're all professors and engineers; it's cringy enough to break a face. Furthermore, the Switch, which is ridiculously weak in comparison, is the indisputable profit king. In terms of exclusives, it is what it is, they will always entice consumers. In terms of multiplat, noone with a mature mind would lie sleepless at night if their version of a game had some minute difference in performance and was fully enjoyable (yes, even 30 fps games can be fully enjoyable). The skewed narratives, the fighting, the mockery, pointing fingers, demeaning the preferences of others, ascerting ones pre-eminence - it's all a disgrace, laughably puerile grade school behavior.

Arguing over videogame performance is like being right back on that kiddy playground fighting over who's toy is "better".

 
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sircaw

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A local pond.
I have noticed the arguments getting more toxic, as if everything is escalating. My low-key feeling is that someone will get killed over this childish garbage one day :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I can't see how "power" is "important" beyond marketing gimmicks. I really can't. The gap between PS5 and SXS isn't big enough to warrant outcry and the few present, somewhat interesting differences are yet to be fully explored with real world results, but people still keep dishing out full authority arm chair assertions as if they're all professors and engineers; it's cringy enough to break a face. Furthermore, the Switch, which is ridiculously weak in comparison, is the indisputable profit king. In terms of exclusives, it is what it is, they will always entice consumers. In terms of multiplat, noone with a mature mind would lie sleepless at night if their version of a game had some minute difference in performance and was fully enjoyable (yes, even 30 fps games can be fully enjoyable). The skewed narratives, the fighting, the mockery, pointing fingers, demeaning the preferences of others, ascerting ones pre-eminence - it's all a disgrace, laughably puerile grade school behavior.

Arguing over videogame performance is like being right back on that kiddy playground fighting over who's toy is "better".

I am sorry but you are wrong.

That extra blade of grass at 500 yards shown by Hubble means everything to me.
Get with the program.

And whats with the damn Cat, you hate fish or something.
Bastard. :messenger_winking:
 

geordiemp

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What you may be referring to is quantum tunnelling. Going to lengths smaller than 3nm the effects will be more apparent where electrons act more like waves than particles , in reality they're probability waves than actual point like particle (well actually everything is). Passing through barriers where they're not intended to, across parallel circuit tracks or jumping across the pn junction depletion layer within the transistor when it should be in an off state. Yes higher frequencies plays a part aswell. That's why the industry will be hitting against the laws of physics soon. That's as much detail I'm gonna go into it before I get things wrong, Google it its real interesting stuff ;)
7nm is still 70 angstroms so still thick in quantum terms, and remember the critical dimensions for FinFET is the width of the gate/ Semi is always improving the dielectric materials (High K) and performance of the thinnest gates.

The biggest factor is one of tolerance, as nothing actually looks like the FinFET model they are not perfect "blocks", deposition and etches are all cuves and have +/- to consider. Thats where EUV comes in which has been mentioned for RDNA2, probably improved ALD process as well.

Good luck anyone getting TSMC to spill the beams about 3-7 nm and EUV / gate specs of the transistors though, thats semi secret sauce..

One for saturday morings :messenger_beaming:
 
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sircaw

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A local pond.
7nm is still 70 angstroms so still thick in quantum terms, and remember the critical dimensions for FinFET is the width of the gate/ Semi is always improving the dielectric materials (High K) and performance of the thinnest gates.

The biggest factor is one of tolerance, as nothing actually looks like the FinFET model they are not perfect "blocks", deposition and etches are all cuves and have +/- to consider. Thats where EUV comes in which has been mentioned for RDNA2, probably improved ALD process as well.

Good luck anyone getting TSMC to spill the beams about 3-7 nm and EUV / gate specs of the transistors though, thats semi secret sauce..

One for saturday morings :messenger_beaming:
That reminds me, need to take headache pills.
Jesus, so much for relaxing, need to lay down now and watch some cricket.
CRICKET Geordie, hope it rains for two days Dammit. not looking good.

Anyways have fun, England 500/1 here i come.
Peace out.
xxxx
 

DrDamn

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This article is kind of weird. Spencer lists a whole set of hardware advances on PS5 - odd for a start - and then says exclusives are the problem next gen.
What I find odd is that a core part of his argument, and linking it the the PC eco system, is fidelity. He talks about other elements, but the crux of his argument is that the best fidelity is normally on PC and PC supports a wide range of hardware. Ergo cross gen! Now for a lot of games that's true, a lot of games can be done on older hardware and a lot of this generation was just older generation games but prettier. This upcoming generation - more than the previous couple - has major hardware advances (on both XSX and PS5) in CPU and storage that should be exploited to make new game experiences that aren't possible on previous generations.
 

Lort

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Lets just be clear .. any specification such as 10tflops for ps5 is somehow not theoretical despite variable clocks .. but xbox measurement is theoretical.

The SSD on the ps5 loads data “instantly” which is infinitely faster than memory itself..im guessing it uses wormhole technology to beat the speed of light...

All of this means the slower memory and lower tflops of the ps5 is actually faster than the xbox.

Well you have me convinced!
 

ToadMan

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Nonsense. Let's have the quotes speak for themselves, shall we?

"Ps5 games will look better, deal with it."

"PS5 is overpowered. You've heard it first on NeoGAF, folks. Now let's wait for news outlets to catch up with this thread."

"This statement leaves Microsoft and the Series X in a really bad position"

"...XsX cpu will be taxed where PS5 will be free, assets will be compromised, sound"

"Check the Medium trailer. It will be possible but with less fidelity than PS5. How much, we don't know yet. I expect quite a lot."


That seems to be quite a lot of people implying that "10.3 > 12.1." to me. I mean, are you kidding?

Also, let's not forget that I wasn't even commenting on what they said, rather replying to a claim that 'no-one had suggested that the PS5 would outperform the Series X".

They have. No amount of bluster changes that.
Not at all. I don't see a single one of those quotes offering any numbers and certainly none saying 10.3 > 12.1.

One of them is specifically talking about CPU - that's not related to tflops counts.

These quotes are (lazily) referring to system performance measurable in metrics like FPS, resolution, visual effects & fidelity, AI complexity, game architecture, game world size, sound processing, and other things I've probably forgotten - that cannot be reduced a single number.

You might disagree with their analysis - but none of those quotes is making the simplistic claim you say they are.
 

hemo memo

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That's how you spend your money, instead of spending $30 million on Ninja then close Mixer in few months and lose all that money. UE is the biggest engine in the world right now, used by game devs, scientists, and movie makers. Having a 1.4% cut is a smart way to do it, and a company as Sony could end up eating most of its shares in a few years.
It’s taking risks. Sometimes it doesn’t work. Sony did worse with investments before. That’s just the reality of business.
 

kensama

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Lets just be clear .. any specification such as 10tflops for ps5 is somehow not theoretical despite variable clocks .. but xbox measurement is theoretical.

The SSD on the ps5 loads data “instantly” which is infinitely faster than memory itself..im guessing it uses wormhole technology to beat the speed of light...

All of this means the slower memory and lower tflops of the ps5 is actually faster than the xbox.

Well you have me convinced!
No because Cerny said "10.3 most part of time" and also 10.3 will be more achievable due to PS5 architecture than 12.1 on XSX due to his architecure (more hardware bottleneck than the PS5)
 

ToadMan

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Lets just be clear .. any specification such as 10tflops for ps5 is somehow not theoretical despite variable clocks .. but xbox measurement is theoretical.

The SSD on the ps5 loads data “instantly” which is infinitely faster than memory itself..im guessing it uses wormhole technology to beat the speed of light...

All of this means the slower memory and lower tflops of the ps5 is actually faster than the xbox.

Well you have me convinced!
Did you miss a "/s" here?

Tflops are notional performance predictors. Anyone who has said anything else is mistaken.

MS claimed the xsex SSD made 100gb of data "instantly" available - Sony has made no such claim. Clearly that is a loose or undefined use of the term "instant" by MS.

Memory on PS5 is 16Gb @ 448Gb/s, vs 16gb @ 320Gb/s for CPU access with 10Gb @ 520Gb/s for GPU on xsex. So the lower memory bandwidth point is rather muddy and depends on usage.


Convince yourself of whatever you prefer using that information.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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So two months ago Epic started this campaign talking about their new engine and talking about the great collaboration they have with Sony over the last couple of years in terms of developing technology to make Sony invest 250 million later, that's the whole plan... Instead of choosing MS that has more money to invest, they went with Sony, right? that's how it works?
Sony doesn't have gigantic debts, so they can invest comfortably. But it's funny that Sony isn't even relying on UE for PS Studios, it's MS that should be worried.
 
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ToadMan

Report me for trolling MS/Xbox threads > 06/20
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...and will praise companies in alignment with their business goals.
Not until those goals are known to be in alignment...

No one gives anyone a marketing boost in exchange for money until there is a signature on the dotted line. In fact if there is a the thought of money and deals in the future, it tends to put a lid on things until the deal is done.

Whatever Sweeney said before this deal was for his own reasons - but according to his tweet - he said them without an offer of anything from Sony outside the normal day to day working relationship between the companies.
 

hemo memo

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Lets just be clear .. any specification such as 10tflops for ps5 is somehow not theoretical despite variable clocks .. but xbox measurement is theoretical.

The SSD on the ps5 loads data “instantly” which is infinitely faster than memory itself..im guessing it uses wormhole technology to beat the speed of light...

All of this means the slower memory and lower tflops of the ps5 is actually faster than the xbox.

Well you have me convinced!
Brand attachment is a hell of a drug. Same reason why Starbucks could sell people poison but they’ll still blame their metabolism than blame Starbucks.
 

pawel86ck

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GPU: on XSX= 52 CU @1.825Ghz compared to PS5= 36 CU @ 2.23Ghz and with IO like cache scrubber so at the end could on par with the GPU of XSX
Memory: on XSX we have two separate frequencies and split RAM (10Gb @560Gb/s for graphics, 6.5Gb for OS and CPU @336Gb/s) vs 14.5Gb (CPU and GPU i assume 1.5 Gb/s for OS see less) and unified.
So bottleneck on memory is on side of XSX.
There is a hypothetical scenario when XSX GPU can be bottlenecked because of remaining 3.5 GB bandwidth, but I cant imagine developers on XSX will be using over 10 GB just for GPU when there's only 13.5 GB (from 16 GB in totall) available to them. In real life scenario XSX GPU will be only using resources from 10 GB 560 GB/s pool and because 4K requires a lot of bandwidth, so additonal 112 GB/s can be a real advantage compared to PS5 448 GB/s.

Xbox One X GPU wasnt 2x faster than PS4P GPU, but thanks to higher bandwidth there are games on Xbox One X pushing 2x more pixels compared to PS4P (for example RDR2). It shows how important memory BW is on AMD GPUs.

10Gb @560Gb/s for graphics, 6.5Gb for OS and CPU @336Gb/s
XSX has 16 GB in totall, not 16.5 GB.

I assume 1.5 Gb/s for OS
You wanted to say 1.5 GB instead of 1.5 Gb/s? Since MS has the upper hand in software I will be really surprised if PS5 will be using 1 GB less for OS compared to XSX. Sony was using 2.5 GB even on PS4, so I dont know why you assume PS5 will need less for OS.

It's dirt 5 developer


Obviously, that SSD drive is incredible. It’s not like a PC SSD, it’s more than that. Being able to load data so ridiculously fast is not only really impressive but as a developer, it’s very interesting.
It shows MS also build supperior I/O compared to current PCs. Hardware decompression, direct storage API, Sampler Feedback Streaming will remove SSD bottlenecks and there are probably still some details remaining we arnt aware of (we are waiting for full XSX breakdown). People who say MS build a standard SSD (I/O) are simply disingenuous. We know MS want to port these technologies on PC in the future obviously, but compared to current PCs there's a big difference. XSX SSD only looks weak next to PS5, but it's still fast on it's own compared to what we have on PC currently. 1 second load times on PS5, and around 3 seconds load times on XSX thats how difference will look like.
 
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Ass of Can Whooping

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Nonsense. Let's have the quotes speak for themselves, shall we?

"Ps5 games will look better, deal with it."

"PS5 is overpowered. You've heard it first on NeoGAF, folks. Now let's wait for news outlets to catch up with this thread."

"This statement leaves Microsoft and the Series X in a really bad position"

"...XsX cpu will be taxed where PS5 will be free, assets will be compromised, sound"

"Check the Medium trailer. It will be possible but with less fidelity than PS5. How much, we don't know yet. I expect quite a lot."


That seems to be quite a lot of people implying that "10.3 > 12.1." to me. I mean, are you kidding?

Also, let's not forget that I wasn't even commenting on what they said, rather replying to a claim that 'no-one had suggested that the PS5 would outperform the Series X".

They have. No amount of bluster changes that.
What does the CPU and level transitioning in the medium have to do with tflops?

And what's the context of the third quote? You're really grasping here

Edit - The third quote is about the SSD. Nothing to do with tflops 🤦‍♂️
 
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PaintTinJr

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Did you miss a "/s" here?

Tflops are notional performance predictors. Anyone who has said anything else is mistaken.

MS claimed the xsex SSD made 100gb of data "instantly" available - Sony has made no such claim. Clearly that is a loose or undefined use of the term "instant" by MS.

Memory on PS5 is 16Gb @ 448Gb/s, vs 16gb @ 320Gb/s for CPU access with 10Gb @ 520Gb/s for GPU on xsex. So the slower memory point is rather muddy and depends on usage.


Convince yourself of whatever you prefer using that information.
I also think if you look at the timing of things, PlayStation already knew the XsX specs before the Road to PS5 - and probably before, and probably know how many ACEs and ROPs the XsX has through devs - and they knew what Epic were going to show on PS5, and don't seem at all insecure about what they've created - quite the opposite.

That tells me Playstation are happy to let xbox project a "more powerful" message, while Playstation show games on their hardware, and in all likelihood are saving the ACE count spec to the end, to displace the "more powerful" message definitively, because even at an unexpected 16 ACEs in the XsX, the words of Sweeney and what we know about the UE5 demo software all points to the PS5 having more ACEs, and at 400Mhz difference in clock, that's going to be a double uplift with the IO complex (IMHO).
 

X-Fighter

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But talking about tech is also facinating. And we does not forget that for the moment only Microsoft hardcore fanboys are the first to spread to downplay the PS5 and only them (they also created a discord for this).
Yeah that's only one side that does this. Were you here when that side believed they were getting a 13TF GPU?
 

kensama

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There is a hypothetical scenario when XSX GPU can be bottlenecked because of remaining 3.5 GB bandwidth, but I cant imagine developers on XSX will be using over 10 GB just for GPU when there's only 13.5 GB in totall available to them. In real life scenario XSX GPU will be only using resources from 10 GB 560 GB/s pool and because 4K requires a lot of bandwidth, so additonal 112 GB/s can be a real advantage compared to PS5 448 GB/s.

Xbox One X GPU wasnt 2x faster than PS4P GPU, but thanks to higher bandwidth there are games on Xbox One X pushing 2x more pixels compared to PS4P (for example RDR2). It shows how important memory BW is on AMD GPUs.
Yes. But i've red here:







XSX has 16 GB in totall, not 16.5 GB.
Yep my bad.


You wanted to say 1.5 GB instead of 1.5 Gb/s? Since MS has the upper hand in software I will be really surprised if PS5 will be using 1 GB less for OS compared to XSX. Sony was using 2.5 GB even on PS4, so I dont know why you assume PS5 will need less for OS.
Yep.
PS4 OS footprint was already lighter than Xbox one and with time come more lighter. It used BSD.


It's dirt 5 developer



It shows MS also build supperior I/O compared to current PCs. Hardware decompression, direct storage API, Sampler Feedback Streaming will remove SSD bottlenecks and there are probably still some details remaining we arnt aware of (we are waiting for full XSX breakdown). People who call XSX SSD (I/O) a standard are simply disingenuous. We know MS want to port these technologies on PC in the future obviously, but compared to current PCs there's a big difference. XSX SSD only looks weak next to PS5, but it's still fast on it's own compared to what we have on PC currently. 1 second load times on PS5, and around 3 seconds load times on XSX thats how difference will look like.
But how it is compare to PS5 (for IO)?
And you quoted some software solution as direct storage sampler feedback that PS5 has too (different name but the same),so it will never par the hardware integration between SSD and APU on the PS5 and
the RAW data of transfer.
Plus your link is from Microsoft site so they will tell what fans want to hear.
They also talked about PS5 version

 
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kensama

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Yeah that's only one side that does this. Were you here when that side believed they were getting a 13TF GPU?
I was but in fact TF never decide me for console. Game are my priority as i played on every paltform (PS, XBox/PC, Nintendo and smartphone (actually i spend most of time on Saint Seiya awakening and 7 Deadly sin)).
 
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X-Fighter

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I was but in fact TF never decide me for console. Game are my priority as i played on every paltform (PS, XBox/PC, Nintendo and smartphone (actually i spend most of time on Saint Seiya awakening and 7 Deadly sin)).
Not for you personally, I get that. But you are claiming that only one side is trying to say the PS5 is underpowered, while both sides do this.
 

lepermessiah

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Can we stop with the ssd will only improve loading times jibbereejoo. You don't gut out traditional I/O set ups to just improve loading times.

Here's what I honestly expect: more effects and ray tracing on Series X. More resolution (not by a huge margin mind you)

Greater fidelity/texture streaming on PS5. Superior sound also.

I am (maybe) authority. We'll see. Authority pending more vidya evidence. Getting juicy in the meantime.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Its wonderful news, the best Engine being given to the best game developers, working on the most technically advanced console out there.

The things they are going to do are going to be mind blowing.
I would go for the same investment on Unity if I were Sony as well. Grab them tight from the balls so they optimize for your console is their priority not an afterthought so you have the upper hand both 1st party and 3 party! Have those billions of hard cash conquer the gaming scene slowly, but steadily.
 
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kensama

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Not for you personally, I get that. But you are claiming that only one side is trying to say the PS5 is underpowered, while both sides do this.

You have to take the context in consideration for the 13Tf nobody known at this time the PS5 architecture. S
So it was speculation/prediction/desire after "we" saw the XSX announcement.
 
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raul3d

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Raul I usually find your posts are on the ball but I believe you've missed the point here about the relationship of PSU usage (power being drawn) and the frequency. The article Dodrake linked to graphically shows how PS5 uses variable frequency to smooth out the code that causes power spikes (unbounded framerates skyrocket or background processes cycle over and over without meaningful effect) so it can raise the sustained work being done by increasing the average frequency, therefore using up that headroom that would had been wasted with fixed frequency

Dodrake linked to:
Maybe I understood your post incorrectly, but I think that we are talking about the same thing.

Since the efficiency term in the example could be misleading, I just wanted to point this out: In the example, the PSU has a specific efficiency range and some additional reservations, these areas are substracted from the top. As you said, the example shows the advantage of lowering the peak power draw for an overall higher clock. What I wanted to point out is that while the power draw of the chip is limited, it is limited by the chip design itself and not the PSU. You could easily swap the PSU with a more powerful one any time. The efficiency area does not mean that the chip performs more efficiently the closer he gets, just that this particular PSU would start to be less efficient.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Stop trolling. We’ve already seen PS5 games are 4K. You won’t get higher than that on Xbox. We’ve also seen the load time differences to be around 10 seconds.

For frame rates the only comparison we have is Dirt 5 running at 120FPS on both. On top of that we’ve only seen PS5 with 8K textures.

You’re living in hypotheticals when we’ve already seen a lot of what to expect.
The Pathless is actually 6K (5.7K) on PS5:



Source:




Kena showed one 8K screenshot though, but I think it'll be for the main menu. Unlike The Pathless, all of them are 6K (5.7K).
 
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chilichote

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Lets just be clear .. any specification such as 10tflops for ps5 is somehow not theoretical despite variable clocks .. but xbox measurement is theoretical.

The SSD on the ps5 loads data “instantly” which is infinitely faster than memory itself..im guessing it uses wormhole technology to beat the speed of light...

All of this means the slower memory and lower tflops of the ps5 is actually faster than the xbox.

Well you have me convinced!
One is the theoretical maximum that a GPU can achieve based on the clock, the other that is really relevant is how much of these TFlops can be achieved in practice. It's not that difficult to understand this difference.

And: the PS5 does not need as much bandwidth because, due to the new architecture, it has to load less redundant data into the memory.
 
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pawel86ck

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Yes. But i've red here:









Yep my bad.




Yep.
PS4 OS footprint was already lighter than Xbox one and with time come more lighter. It used BSD.




But how it is compare to PS5 (for IO)?
And you quoted some software solution as direct storage sampler feedback that PS5 has too (different name but the same),so it will never par the hardware integration between SSD and APU on the PS5 and
the RAW data of transfer.
Plus your link is from Microsoft site so they will tell what fans want to hear.
They also talked about PS5 versin

I can use the same argument and suggest Cerny tell only what PS fans want to hear.

When it comes to software vs hardware approach, Sony usually try to build hardware for every problem they encounter (they even build PS2 chip into PS3 in the past), while MS prefer software approach. If both methods can achieve the same goal then I dont care how exactly they are doing it.

MS has the upper hand in software without any doubts and they dont even need to build GPU with the same CUs multiplier just to run BC games (thats the reason why PS5 still has 36 CUs). Xbox one x runs BC games (xbox one games and x360) even better than the real hardware and I bet it will be the same on XSX. After reading countless articles about XSX it looks like MS enginees have also adressed I/O bottlenecks in their console (just in a different way). For example directstorage API only require 10% of one CPU core and probably achieve what a dedicated chip on PS5 does.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Repeating your... insane (?) statement doesn't make it more true.
Wake up, he's talking about the official gameplay demo of UE5 running on PS5 with lossless, uncomprssed, Hollywood-level 8K assets with 16K shadows.

"With Nanite, we don't have to bake normal maps from a high-resolution model to a low-resolution game asset; we can import the high-resolution model directly in the engine. Unreal Engine supports Virtual Texturing, which means we can texture our models with many 8K textures without overloading the GPU." Jerome Platteaux, Epic's special projects art director, told Digital Foundry. He says that each asset has 8K texture for base colour, another 8K texture for metalness/roughness and a final 8K texture for the normal map. But this isn't a traditional normal map used to approximate higher detail, but rather a tiling texture for surface details.

++++

"Really, the core method here, and the reason there is such a jump in shadow fidelity, is virtual shadow maps. This is basically virtual textures but for shadow maps. Nanite enables a number of things we simply couldn't do before, such as rendering into virtualised shadow maps very efficiently. We pick the resolution of the virtual shadow map for each pixel such that the texels are pixel-sized, so roughly one texel per pixel, and thus razor sharp shadows. This effectively gives us 16K shadow maps for every light in the demo where previously we'd use maybe 2K at most. High resolution is great, but we want physically plausible soft shadows, so we extended some of our previous work on denoising ray-traced shadows to filter shadow map shadows and give us those nice penumbras."


Let's assume Epic Games is bribed, show me now such details in a running gameplay on another platform and we'll be happy to acknowledge that instead of accusing official facts as being lies while empty-handed. The faster you submit to these facts the better.
 
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DonkeyKong

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Lots of interesting debates about the XBSX vs PS5 power difference, MS are being more and more confident and vocal that they have the most powerful console, i believe MS would of known for a long time what the PS5 hardware was and how it works and vice versa Sony and the XBSX. I’ve said it before but if the PS5 ends up being more powerful MS would look very foolish, i can’t see MS making such a big mistake.... or could they ?
 
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chilichote

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Lots of interesting debates about the XBSX vs PS5 power difference, MS are being more and more confident and vocal that they have the most powerful console, i believe MS would of known for a long time what the PS5 hardware was and how it works and vice versa Sony and the XBSX. I’ve said it before but if the PS5 ends up being more powerful MS would look very foolish, i can’t see MS making such a big mistake.... or could they ?
Power is their only selling point. Their have to. However, the differences will likely be pretty small. A win here for Microsoft, a win there for Sony. And theoretically, measured against the usual scale, their are right.
 
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FranXico

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Can we stop with the ssd will only improve loading times jibbereejoo. You don't gut out traditional I/O set ups to just improve loading times.

Here's what I honestly expect: more effects and ray tracing on Series X. More resolution (not by a huge margin mind you)

Greater fidelity/texture streaming on PS5. Superior sound also.

I am (maybe) authority. We'll see. Authority pending more vidya evidence. Getting juicy in the meantime.
You should change your nickname to Authority.
 

FranXico

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Lots of interesting debates about the XBSX vs PS5 power difference, MS are being more and more confident and vocal that they have the most powerful console, i believe MS would of known for a long time what the PS5 hardware was and how it works and vice versa Sony and the XBSX. I’ve said it before but if the PS5 ends up being more powerful MS would look very foolish, i can’t see MS making such a big mistake.... or could they ?
The PS5 is less powerful. Sony focused on a new I/O paradigm, and did their best to narrow the gap afterwards, but the difference will always be there. MS focused on the GPU first and foremost, and then tried to take over the "instant loads" narrative afterwards, that is their strategy. The difference is just not as large as some zealots would like to believe.
 

Redlight

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What does the CPU and level transitioning in the medium have to do with tflops?

And what's the context of the third quote? You're really grasping here

Edit - The third quote is about the SSD. Nothing to do with tflops 🤦‍♂️
I have never once mentioned 'tflops'. It was claimed that 'no had said that the PS5 would outperform the Series X'. That's not true, the quotes prove that. It's that simple.
 

Bo_Hazem

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So how would the PS5 do then at 1080p with the minecraft... it's not going to be 40% worse than xbox in RT that's seems an xbox fans pipedream. As said faster clocks should benefit it somewhat.

The extra horsepower freed from being at 1080p should help the ps5 run it in a similar fashion, maybe a few less frames or slightly less res than xbox but whoknows.

I bet side by side little to no noticeable difference.
End results is what matters, micecraft graphics is a pile of crap anyway, but this one with a smarter RT implementation with some modified materials done by enthusiasts looks 10x better than the one shown on XSX that's fighting to reach 30fps at 1080p:




End results is the key to gamers. And that's 1440p@60fps (or more like around 20-60fps).
 
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