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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Brudda26

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Jan 19, 2020
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of course it looks much sharper and cleaner, its native 4k instead of the checkerboard 1800p you are playing on pro.
now, about sound, I really dont think I need to go into it for too much.
you are saying that it is normal to not have change in acoustics when you enter or exit a tunnel, at full throttle, in race car. ok.
lets just say that this is your opinion, and it is much different than mine.

lastly, about "how do I know there is no ray tracing during the gameplay segment", this is very easy: I use my eyes, and I trust them.
You can go ask nx gamer or digital foundry about this if you don't trust yours.
Car showroom, garage, trailers, yes, ray tracing was there. in-game, nope, zero.
I see you didnt pay full attention to what he said, in GT the game simulates sound in cockpit from the drivers perspective so audio is dampened by the helmet. On top of that there is a audio change upon entering the tunnel especially the second tunnel. You can quite clearly hear the reverb. Also to add unless you have windows open in a car driving in a tunnel the noise you hear doesnt really change much. I've been in Nissan skylines and Mitsubishi evos with fat exhausts and huge turbos. The noise really only changes in cockpit when windows are down. Just with any other GT game the audio changes depending on what camera you use and you will get significantly more tunnel reverb in chase cam.

Just because it may not sound bombastic doesnt mean it's not realistic. Lots of games over exaggerate car sounds forza does this with alot of its cars the Mazda mx5 being a notorious one in forza 7 sounds like the thing has a LS swap when in fact it has a 1.5litre engine.

Not to mention the indirect lighting in 7 far improved over sport. Areas that are hidden in darkness in sport are much more realistically lit in 7 via the light bouncing around the cockpit.
 
Jun 13, 2020
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Because he is trolling. The reflections in your own car's hood are clearly raytraced, even in the gameplay video. But I mean he could also count the polygons of the cars and identified them as "only GTS" cars, what ever that is supposed to mean..


Then please get your eyes checked and invest more than 5 seconds looking at the trailer. It is really annoying that you present incorrect information as facts. In the trailer you posted, at frame 11140 you can even read the reflected off-screen banner in the car's hood.
even though I will put you on ignore list right after this for calling me a troll and blind, I will answer to you before I do.
there are many ways to do reflections. reflection does not equal raytracing.
I wont go into the many different methods that racing games use in order to produce them. do your own reading on this.
I will just say that
a) there is no sign of your own car reflecting on the aston when close, not from behind nor by side. or on any other car. that would be the number 1 thing to shoot for on raytraced reflections. just like the trailer shows.
b) a dead giveaway to spot if your own car has raytraced reflections is to watch the curved surfaces. like for example the curvature above the headlight.
now go on rewatch the video, and keep your eyes there. if you still can't tell, go watch that curvature when inside the tunnel. watch how the tunnel lights are reflected there.

you are welcome.
 
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J_Gamer.exe

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May 4, 2020
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Here’s a little bit of fun ....
From : https://www.hardwaretimes.com/xbox-series-x-gpu-architecture-deep-dive-ray-tracing-mesh-shading-sampler-feedback-and-vrs/




Yikes. Well there it is.... how can Sony ever come back from this revelation?


Except

.
.
.




Areej Syed is the author of the article and the speculator of this btw.
Ffs... these guys like in this article never stop....we done this one to death, as far as I'm concerned its simple, its rdna 2 in all meaningful ways like perf per watt etc, missing any features they didn't want (where they most likely have their own versions) and added any more features aka rdna 3 or what it may become or not.

So it's not rdna2 stock, no.

Really hope we get news soon and red gaming tech is indeed correct and there's a way to prove features are rdna 3, although not sure how they can prove yet, but just to see these dimwits reactions.

What will they twist then?
 

3liteDragon

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as a playstation proponent, I find it funny that you talk like that.
since we already know that CUs is the place were raytracing calculations will take place,
and ps5 has 50% less than xbox, here is a simple example for you to ponder:
lets say a game -a third party game- uses 28 CUs on ps5 for everything else, and keeps 8 for ray tracing effects.
xbox can easily use 36 Cus for everything else, over-compensating the max possible Hz difference, and still have more than double the available CUs for raytracing effects.

should I wish you good luck?
 

roops67

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Apr 24, 2020
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He is brilliant.

I remember the first girl i ever fell in love with, this damn song was playing at the time.

Makes me cry sometimes. Very manly/fishy i know.
If you don't like this, you have no SOUL cough sole



@Mod of War likes whales, you are in trouble my friend, it's game over.

I saw him and @AeneaGames walking down the road together, i thought it was the start of a god damn stampede.

Nothing wrong with a bit of meat on the bone but damn, i draw the line at Mama Cass.

for people that don't know who Mama cass is she is from this beauty.

I recall Gamernyc78 Gamernyc78 saying he likes thick woman, i think he meant this

The plan to poke some fun in THICC vs THIN went down like a lead balloon, ah well!

Oh shit I could have sworn that singer on Mr.Big vid is a dudette! Reminds me of when I had the instant hots for the Placebo singer after watching 'Pure Morning' vid only to discover some time after HIS name is BRIAN :sick:🤮, to make things worse at the time I had boasted to friends that I would totally DO HER 🥶 , the damn catchy lyrics to 'pure morning' just made things even more confusing! Nonetheless Placebo still became one of my favourite bands...

I think we're (especially you!) testing @Mod of War patience , I foresee a warning coming soon 🥳
 
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raul3d

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Mar 30, 2020
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even though I will put you on ignore list right after this for calling me a troll and blind, I will answer to you before I do.
there are many ways to do reflections. reflection does not equal raytracing.
I wont go in the many different methods that racing games use in order to produce them. do your own reading on this.
I will just say that
a) there is no sign of your own car reflecting on the aston when close, not from behind nor by side. or on any other car. that would be the number 1 thing to shoot for on raytraced reflections. just like the trailer shows.
b) a dead giveaway to spot if your own car has raytraced reflections is to watch the curved surfaces. like for example the curvature above the headlight.
now go on rewatch the video, and keep your eyes there. if you still can't tell, go watch that curvature when inside the tunnel. watch how the tunnel lights are reflected there.

you are welcome.
Thank you for educating me. So then what is your interpretation of the frame I gave you? By which technique did that reflection get there?
 

kyliethicc

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you are saying that it is normal to not have change in acoustics when you enter or exit a tunnel, at full throttle, in race car. ok.
I didn’t say that.

So the gameplay footage in the tunnel begins in a tunnel, so we never heard it enter, but before earlier in the gameplay when it’s outside, I hear a difference. As soon as the footage cuts to in the tunnel, I hear more reverb than when outside in the open. And to my ears, when the car exits the tunnel I hear the sound reverb change back, it’s just not dramatically different because of the it’s the way it’s mixed.

No worries, you don’t have to agree.
 
Jun 13, 2020
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I didn’t say that.

So the gameplay footage in the tunnel begins in a tunnel, so we never heard it enter, but before earlier in the gameplay when it’s outside, I hear a difference. As soon as the footage cuts to in the tunnel, I hear more reverb than when outside in the open. And to my ears, when the car exits the tunnel I hear the sound reverb change back, it’s just not dramatically different because of the it’s the way it’s mixed.

No worries, you don’t have to agree.
no, it begins at least 5 seconds BEFORE entering the tunnel. right where I bookmarked it for everyone to see.


if it doesnt get you there for whatever reason, goto 1min59sec
(you can also notice the tunnel lights popping-in, as you approach)

and we definitely have to not agree that there is a reverb change etc, unless you got cerny-compatible ears for ps5 acoustics and I have 100% incompatible :]
 
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Three Jackdaws

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If anyone's interested Digital Foundry has an analysis on the RT in Sonys PS5 event.

Great video! Pragmata is an interesting game which not talked about enough, I remember seeing it for the first time on the live stream and I immediately noticed those amazing reflections in the puddles as well as the fidelity of the graphics. I think the little girl was a bit of let down, especially the hair, it looked poorly designed. But I hope that was because the footage is early because the game does not come out until 2022.
 

Metroiddarks

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maybe you should have tried reading twice or thrice before commenting, as I made my example the most basic and easy I could
if you can't understand "what do I mean" in that example, I am afraid I cannot make it any more simple for you.
The good thing is I don't need someone like you teach me that, the problem with your examples is those are far
from be realistic and is clear for any person who ever touch an engine than you comments are pure argument
ad conditionalis while you use concepts than sounds like magics to you.

I just read you wrote this :

and I think I am being very generous here with this, because other people would tell you that gt7 at 120@4k probably
would have as much ray tracing in-game, as the time that gpu will soar at 2.23 while the cpu is at 3.5
This for me is the clear indication you have the same level of knowledge as someone who knows how the built a PC (with luck)
but is far from be good enough to understand than the clock and utilization is not same, I know you see a lot videos
in youtube which use afterburner but when you are using profiler tool you don't see your GPU and CPU in that way.
 
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3liteDragon

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Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Cerny said BVH is done outside CUs?
This whole time I’ve been thinking the intersection engines were a separate thing from the TMU’s lol. So why are ray ops done on TMU’s and how does PS5’s CU clock speed affect how texture ops and ray ops are done in parallel?
 

Aceofspades

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95% of the specs are laid out now, both machines exceeded my expectations coming to this gen especially CPUs and SSD. I didn't expect RT but both machine had "good enough" implementation.

I didn't expect the advancement in Audio, Im very excited about that.

Also its great that both machines are closer than ever in performance so picking one would largely be because of games instead of specs.

November can't come soon enough!
 

DaGwaphics

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that's a fish you are talking too, WE DONT MAKE MISTAKES, EVER.

INFUCKINGFALLABLE ----new word for today.

I will shut it now, i know, i am not helping, sorry, bad. "lollipop_disappointed:
You've got to learn to be a FUD poster, keep it vague. If it's anything with numbers, find a way to support multiple possibilities at all times. At the end of the day you can't be completely wrong. If you are completely wrong, just reexplain your position into something that works or provides you with more opportunities to be correct. Even if you are proven to be embarrassingly wrong at every turn, just forge ahead like you didn't even notice, got to keep the confidence up. :messenger_beaming:

Gafers on average are too smart for my techniques to work, but you might find success on Twitter or YT.
 

kyliethicc

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So I agree, seems like 50/50 if Series X will be $500 or $600. So what do we all think it is the more likely of these 2 scenarios?

XSX $600, PS5 $600, PSE DE $500, XSS $400
or
XSX $500, PS5 $500, PSE DE $400, XSS $300

Both companies hiding the price this close to fall does seem like a bad sign, if I’m honest with myself.
 

kyliethicc

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no, it begins at least 5 seconds BEFORE entering the tunnel. right where I bookmarked it for everyone to see.


if it doesnt get you there for whatever reason, goto 1min59sec
(you can also notice the tunnel lights popping-in, as you approach)

and we definitely have to not agree that there is a reverb change etc, unless you got cerny-compatible ears for ps5 acoustics and I have 100% incompatible :]
Oh I was thought you were talking about the second tunnel section a few seconds later. I didn’t know you meant that left turn one, yeah it’s short and he lets off the engine as he turns, but sure maybe they could add a bit more reverb.
 
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So I agree, seems like 50/50 if Series X will be $500 or $600. So what do we all think it is the more likely of these 2 scenarios?

XSX $600, PS5 $600, PSE DE $500, XSS $400
or
XSX $500, PS5 $500, PSE DE $400, XSS $300

Both companies hiding the price this close to fall does seem like a bad sign, if I’m honest with myself.
At this point I'm expecting the PS5 to be cheaper than the XSX after the hot chips event. Makes Lockhart make alot more sense to me.
 

kyliethicc

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At this point I'm expecting the PS5 to be cheaper than the XSX after the hot chips event. Makes Lockhart make alot more sense to me.
Do you think the XSX having a larger SOC could result in a $100 higher price though? That’s what I’m not sure about. But I have no idea how much money it costs for these companies to add another 20 CUs or so.
 
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Do you think the XSX having a larger SOC could result in a $100 higher price though? That’s what I’m not sure about. But I have no idea how much money it costs for these companies to add another 20 CUs or so.
I also believe the XSX isn't cheap to build either with their dual Mobo design. Also Sony had a pretty bad experience at 599$ so I'm pretty sure they won't go through that again. As for Sony hiding the price it could very well be 499$ or a bit above that. It would make sense for them to hide it since people are used to 399$ consoles from Sony.
 
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Aceofspades

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At this point I'm expecting the PS5 to be cheaper than the XSX after the hot chips event. Makes Lockhart make alot more sense to me.
I think both XSX and PS5 are costing about the same.

PS5:
+ more expensive SSD
+ more expensive controller
+ more expensive cooling
- cheaper APU
= equal Ram cost or within $1 or less

Reverse that for XSX
 
Dec 22, 2019
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A $299 Series S is not happening. It's not as if MS completely changed leadership in the last three years where they sold a significantly weaker Xbox One X in comparison for $499 in 2017.

Realistic pricing:
$499 - PS5/XSX
$449 - PS5 DE
$399 - XSS
$299 - Xbox One S v2 (already leaked)

Before any goes "One S v2 is actually Series S!", MS already confirmed the discontinuation of One X and the digital edition. It would be foolish for MS to discontinue One S completely and concede the low end market to Sony. It's not a coincidence that it's hard to find a One S in retail right now and a new version is leaked.

No idea of where Sony is going with PS4 pricing. Considering it has been pretty expensive over the years to begin with.
 

THE:MILKMAN

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Both companies hiding the price this close to fall does seem like a bad sign, if I’m honest with myself.
Maybe but I can't shake off the fact with Sony they did exactly the same with the PS4 Pro reveal/price on Sept 7th 2016 just 2 months before launch even though everything leaked about it in March/April 2016.

According to the Xbox insiders Microsoft are determined to wait for Sony to announce their price before they do hence their repeated delay of "Xboxing Day" that is said to reveal not only Series S but pricing for both it and XSX.
 

Thirty7ven

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Do you think the XSX having a larger SOC could result in a $100 higher price though? That’s what I’m not sure about. But I have no idea how much money it costs for these companies to add another 20 CUs or so.
At the moment it’s hard. XSX has more nand, more expensive bus, bigger gpu. But the PS5 does have an extra co-processor, and a more complex I/O. The Dual Sense might be more expensive to produce too.

If I had to guess atm, I would say they might both cost the same, with the PS5 DE undercutting them, but MS will be losing more money per unit. Or not.
 

TheHustler

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Figured this would be the best place to ask this question.

What are the odds preorders for live before the end of the month? I have $400 in Best Buy reward money I was hoping to use for my ps5 preorder and the rewards expire at the end of this month.
 
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Thirty7ven

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Figured this would be the best place to ask this question.

What are the odds preorders for live before the end of the month? I have $400 in Best Buy reward money I was hoping to use for my ps5 preorder and the rewards expire at the end of this month.
If the rewards are expiring you can just use them to pre order some other stuff and then change, no?
 
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I'm expecting $499 for both, worst case we will have $549 for both XSX and PS5 with $449 DE and $399 Lockhart

Thats my guess.
That slide said the APU is even more expensive than the one in the One X. I'm not even sure if they will nail that 499$ price unless they are willing to lose alot with it.
 
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Gamerguy84

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Figured this would be the best place to ask this question.

What are the odds preorders for live before the end of the month? I have $400 in Best Buy reward money I was hoping to use for my ps5 preorder and the rewards expire at the end of this month.
If not just buy something for 399 and pay the tax, return it unopened for store credit.
 

Thirty7ven

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For Sony, since they are not releasing a lower spec sku, and they priced the PS4 Pro at 399$, I don’t see them jumping from 399$ to 599$. It also doesn’t vibe with what Cerny was saying about “responsibility to keep costs down”. It also doesn’t match the doubling of PS5 production.

But I’m ready to be wrong.
 

Darklor01

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Figured this would be the best place to ask this question.

What are the odds preorders for live before the end of the month? I have $400 in Best Buy reward money I was hoping to use for my ps5 preorder and the rewards expire at the end of this month.
Buy Best Buy gift cards online now for the dollar amount. Do it soon so they can be delivered soon. If you end up pre-ordering while waiting on the gift cards, choose in store pickup so you can pay with the gift cards at pickup since you can’t change payment type for online orders.
 
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For Sony, since they are not releasing a lower spec sku, and they priced the PS4 Pro at 399$, I don’t see them jumping from 399$ to 599$. It also doesn’t vibe with what Cerny was saying about “responsibility to keep costs down”. It also doesn’t match the doubling of PS5 production.

But I’m ready to be wrong.
No way you're pushing 10 million with a $499, $599 entry point. Once they set those investors expectations that high they better deliver. So yeah, doubtful it's gonna be that.
 
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bitbydeath

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For Sony, since they are not releasing a lower spec sku, and they priced the PS4 Pro at 399$, I don’t see them jumping from 399$ to 599$. It also doesn’t vibe with what Cerny was saying about “responsibility to keep costs down”. It also doesn’t match the doubling of PS5 production.

But I’m ready to be wrong.
Agree but if Lockhart is $399 then the PS5 DE must be at least $499 otherwise why even risk botching the gen at all with weak hardware? Even a $100 difference doesn’t sound worth it.
 
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It also doesn’t match the doubling of PS5 production.
Yeah I honestly don't see them doubling production if they are going to sell it at 599$. My guess is that due to cheaper manufacturing costs they decided to up production. Fits with the rumors that the yields were incredibly good for them.

For the PS5 499$ is the maximum that im expecting. But we will see what happens.
 
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Yeah I honestly don't see them doubling production if they are going to sell it at 599$. My guess is that due to cheaper manufacturing costs they decided to up production. Fits with the rumors that the yields were incredibly good for them.

For the PS5 499$ is the maximum that im expecting. But we will see what happens.
If XSX is more expensive than PS5 .. oh lawd

I really don't want an xbox-less console landscape but feel it's a distinct possibility.
 
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saintjules

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So I agree, seems like 50/50 if Series X will be $500 or $600. So what do we all think it is the more likely of these 2 scenarios?

XSX $600, PS5 $600, PSE DE $500, XSS $400
or
XSX $500, PS5 $500, PSE DE $400, XSS $300

Both companies hiding the price this close to fall does seem like a bad sign, if I’m honest with myself.
Definitely feels like bad news as I mentioned the other day. But that depends on who you ask. For me, if it came down to a $600, $700 Console, I got it day one anyway. It's really a flip of the coin here. The specs warrant a high price, but then there's the thought of a Company like Microsoft having little to no problems taking the loss in order to get people into the Game Pass ecosystem long term.

I personally think that the digital SKUs from both Companies are actually an excuse to have the standard versions at a higher price. And for them to be available simultaneously at launch (at least for the PS5 since technically the Series S still doesn't exist) makes me think that even more. The only monkey wrench for the PS5 is that the specs are essentially the same for both models. It's just that damn physical drive that questions the cost difference between the two. Does the removal of the disc drive really warrant a $100 difference in price, many ask? I think it's just the general hit Sony needs to take to push the gap a bit to make the digital model the 'affordable' entry point. The caveat I keep thinking about is that you're stuck with digital purchases only, you alienate previous Playstation owners that have discs, but can't afford the higher cost based model. This goes for the X|S scenario as well.

At least with the Series S, there's a potential compromise in gaming resolution and the possibility of no Controller in the packaging which would then, in my opinion, justify $100 or more in difference. If it's to be believed that the S is $299-$399, that's a $300 max in the gap if the X is $600 (plus or minus state tax, included VAT, etc.). The digital models are there as the cheap entry point, but if you want the best? Go for the premium model. That's the messaging that I thought I would have heard by now. Perhaps Microsoft will spin that somehow when they announce the S.

For me? The lower the price, the more money I'll have leftover for other games. But it's 2020 now, 14 years since the PS3 came out and the price still haunts people in their sleep. If the PS3 60GB SKU was never $599 in the first place, would the talk of $599 for these next-gen Consoles be as worrisome for the Consumer? And if the Pandemic wasn't here? I always wonder that.

Edit: Read some other posts I missed. I remember the talks of Sony wanting to keep costs down. So my question is, why are both Companies really quiet about the price? If the prices were sub $499, that would have been shouted out with pride by now. Sony should be confident with the millions of people invested in their games. So why not let Microsoft undercut? You clearly have the lineup of Developers whom make games that will justify owning the system. The PS4 proved that this generation...Something's wrong here.
 
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GreyHand23

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Man this looks absolutely mind blowing.


Can't imagine what games that strive for realism will look like nextgen.
What I see when I watch this is of course a beautiful game and something that wouldn't have been possible without all of the advances in technology over the years. I also see that now the technology has advanced enough to make a Super Man game that truly does justice to the character. Just imagine flying across the globe and fighting in the atmosphere and then falling down to Earth to continue the fight. It's all possible with SSDs, high end GPUs, and fast internet.
 

Snowdonhoffen

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Agreed. Cory Barlog is directing 1 game, and I think this Eric Williams guy is now directing a new game. He’s a long time Santa Monica dev. I think he might be leading the next God of War while Cory Barlog is leading a new IP.

So Moore's Law Is Dead was right hmmmm he said he heard Cory Barlog was just a producer in the new God of War game.
 

roops67

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There's an interesting article on Digital Foundry from 2013 about the PS4 having two different memory busses with different amounts of bandwidth - Onion and Garlic. Which to me sounds very much like the XSX having two different speeds for its CPU/GPU memory. What do you think?

Different. For starters the onion an garlic physically are 2 separate buses on PS4, whereas the XSX is the same bus for the 2 throughputs (like time shared) tho lot faster than PS4's. But it is a lie to state 560GB/s for XSX GPU cos the bus is not dedicated. Now if they said 560GB/s 'Peak' then yeah it can do that at instances, but definitely not sustained!