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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Ar¢tos

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For example
Anaconda 12 TF, 500$
PS5 8 TF, 400$
Lockhart 4 TF 300$
You can't expect PS 5 to be like Anaconda and being 100 dollars cheaper doesn't work that way
People expect miracles
No.
You can have 8tf 400$ / 10tf 500$ or 10tf 400$ / 12tf 500$, not 8 to 12 with 100 difference because that is not how things scale.
When you reach the higher end (example 10tf) then it takes a lot more power consumption and produces a lot more heat to reach 12tf, making the cooling /Psu more expensive, its lot a linear increase of cost, and the difference will most likely be around 1tf, not 2. To get 2tf difference the price scaling would be higher than 100, or else Sony would just take a loss with the difference, since PlayStation is one of theirs biggest source of income.
 
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Fake

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I watching DF video right now and John is thinking in the same way I posted about the Anaconda taking the place of the Xbox One.
 

ethomaz

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OH I didn't see that account but I also thought it was someone from digital foundry assuming I believe and ppl ran with it.
I believe both happened near each other.

Panelão said in the other forum he thought Sony is going cheaper with PS5 at $399 and 8TFs... he received replies from everybody about 2013 DX memes.

But Panello left MS so I don’t know how much he knows even about NextXbox.
 
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ethomaz

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Seems like the Bleeding Edge name was know for some years already lol
 

Gamernyc78

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I believe both happened near each other.

Panelão said in the other forum he thought Sony is going cheaper with PS5 at $399 and 8TFs... he received replies from everybody about 2013 DX memes.

But Panello left MS so I don’t know how much he knows even about NextXbox.
It's OK he didn't know shit about Xbox even when he was there. Bs and lies would come out his mouth.
 
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Aceofspades

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Sony never skimped on "power" with their playstations.

5th gen: PS1 was more powerful than Saturn , and had features that even PCs at the time couldn't have prior to accelerated graphics, N64 was released 2 years after PS1.

6th gen: PS2 was ahead of anything on the market at the time of release "don't believe the delusional Dreamcast fans 🤣" PS2 way highly customized with features suited for graphics rendering with high fill rate and the crazy 2048bit memory bus. Xbox and GC released a year and half later.

7th gen: PS3 was packed with features (blueray - Wifi- HDD- BC) all these were missing on the early versions of 360. Cell + RSX once utilized properly were able to pull ahead of anything on 360 (Sony exclusives + GTAV) the main drawback of PS3 was the extremely difficult development for the system.

8th gen: PS4 was way better designed and more powerful than One . Both released at the same time.

My point is, Sony has always tried their best to provide cutting edge technology and they never skimped on power at all unlike Nintendo .
 

Marlenus

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Let's be real here.

Sony and MS are sourcing the core of their systems from AMD so if they launch at a similar price to each other within a similar time frame (3 months) they are likely to be very similar to each other performance wise.

MS will not make the esram mistake again and just focus on something that is fast and simple and Sony have has great success with PS4 so will do more of the same.

I think both consoles will be in the 12Tflop range and judging by the limited Navi info we have that is probably slightly better than it appears if Navi also boasts 25% increased IPC. That would be roughly equivalent to a 15Tflop GPU based on Polaris / Vega.
 
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Gamernyc78

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Let's be real here.

Sony and MS are sourcing the core of their systems from AMD so if they launch at a similar price to each other within a similar time frame (3 months) they are likely to be very similar to each other performance wise.

MS will not make the esram mistake again and just focus on something that is fast and simple and Sony have has great success with PS4 so will do more of the same.

I think both consoles will be in the 12Tflop range and judging by the limited Navi info we have that is probably slightly better than it appears if Navi also boasts 25% increased IPC. That would be roughly equivalent to a 15Tflop GPU based on Polaris / Vega.

I'll be happy with this. And I think most agree power difference will be slight not much to make a hoopla about. It's the direction each goes in terms of services, pricing and features and of course exclusive offerings that will decide who will be on top, of course they can still both be successful whether one is the sales leader or not.
 

Marlenus

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$699 Vega VII is 14Tflops
It competed with 2080 at the same price, it has 16GB HBM2, it had fantastic fp64 performance for the price and the die size is about 30% larger than the shown Navi chip.

It was also one of the 1st products using 7nm so has the worst yields (hence why it was limited to mi50 and mi60 cards to begin with)

EDIT: It is the price it is because it can be, it also keeps demand manageable since AMD would rather sell those dies as MI50 cards which have a much higher margin.
 
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Aceofspades

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$699 Vega VII is 14Tflops
So?
Believe me , if you go to AMD and then order 100m units of Vega VII , they will sell it for you at around $150 or less 🤣. They will even treat you to some fancy yachts trips and give you some inside scopes of their future 😉
 
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llien

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It competed with 2080 at the same price, it has 16GB HBM2, it had fantastic fp64 performance for the price and the die size is about 30% larger than the shown Navi chip.

It was also one of the 1st products using 7nm so has the worst yields (hence why it was limited to mi50 and mi60 cards to begin with)
How reasonable it is to expect 30% smaller chip on the same node to go over 12TF?


Believe me , if you go to AMD and then order 100m units of Vega VII , they will sell it for you at around $150 or less
HBM alone probably costs more than that.
 
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Marlenus

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How reasonable it is to expect 30% smaller chip on the same node to go over 12TF
cut out the transistors for fp64 performance, cut out the transistors for int8 performance, increase the density as it is not your 1st 7nm chip. Tweak the routing to improve clockspeeds at same power usage, add in extra features to better utilise the shaders.

It is entirely possible imo.

rx590 is about 232mm and Vega 64 is 487mm which is a greater than 50% reduction but it does not lose 50% Tflops (7.1 for rx590 Vs 12.6 for vega64).

Using the same scaling factor between Tflops and die size means a die that is 30% smaller than Vega20 (using a 64 CU chip running at 1.8Ghz like MI60) would hit almost exactly 12 Tflops (it is like 12.004).

EDIT: also worth noting is that vega64 has higher transistor density than rx590 where as Navi is likely to have higher density than Vega20 as it is a newer architecture on a node the designers now have more experience with.
 
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joe_zazen

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I see the xbox fans are already trying to spin for Phil “if” they end up being on par or weaker than ps5. Everyone who watched the conference knows exactly what Phil meant.
MS pr is top flight, and you need a degree in semiotics to parse their language. If they used ‘benchmark’ and not power, there is a reason.

Benchmark: A standard or point of reference against which things may be compared.

synonyms standard, point of reference, basis, gauge, criterion, specification, canon, convention, guide, guideline, guiding principle, norm, touchstone, yardstick, test, litmus test, barometer, indicator, measure, model, exemplar, classic example, pattern, paradigm, archetype, prototype, ideal

e.g. ‘If we accept 2hr 10 min as the benchmark for a male marathoner, it is worthwhile considering that in 1987, just two runners raced inside that time.’

Tldr A benchmark does not = most powerful.

The wild 8TF appears again.
I still think it is possible we will see an 8tf navi/rdna Ferrari ps5 for $399 that in real world performs better than a 11 tf vega tractor-trailer next box for $499.
 
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demigod

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MS pr is top flight, and you need a degree in semiotics to parse their language. If they used ‘benchmark’ and not power, there is a reason.

Benchmark: A standard or point of reference against which things may be compared.

synonyms standard, point of reference, basis, gauge, criterion, specification, canon, convention, guide, guideline, guiding principle, norm, touchstone, yardstick, test, litmus test, barometer, indicator, measure, model, exemplar, classic example, pattern, paradigm, archetype, prototype, ideal

e.g. ‘If we accept 2hr 10 min as the benchmark for a male marathoner, it is worthwhile considering that in 1987, just two runners raced inside that time.’

Tldr A benchmark does not = most powerful.



I still think it is possible we will see an 8tf navi/rdna Ferrari ps5 for $399 that in real world performs better than a 11 tf vega tractor-trailer next box for $499.
Yes it does. When you set the benchmark, it means the competition has to catch up to you.
 

joe_zazen

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Yes it does. When you set the benchmark, it means the competition has to catch up to you.
No, it means you have created the console equivalent of the International Prototype of the Kilogram

And it fits with Microsoft’s ambition to be the company everyone uses as the defacto standard in computing. If they wanted to reference power, their pr team would have used that word. Have we learned nothing from the years of ms xbox pr releases in salesgaf/reset?
 

vpance

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Set the bar would be a more appropriate word to use then, if they wanted to make a statement on having the most power, not benchmark. MS striving to be the next 3DMark makes no sense.
 

LordOfChaos

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Let's be real here.

Sony and MS are sourcing the core of their systems from AMD so if they launch at a similar price to each other within a similar time frame (3 months) they are likely to be very similar to each other performance wise.

MS will not make the esram mistake again and just focus on something that is fast and simple and Sony have has great success with PS4 so will do more of the same.

I think both consoles will be in the 12Tflop range and judging by the limited Navi info we have that is probably slightly better than it appears if Navi also boasts 25% increased IPC. That would be roughly equivalent to a 15Tflop GPU based on Polaris / Vega.
Everything looks nice and matched up until BOOM, Microsofts reveals they were on Zen 5!
 
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joe_zazen

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Set the bar would be a more appropriate word to use then, if they wanted to make a statement on having the most power, not benchmark. MS striving to be the next 3DMark makes no sense.
Using the word benchmark makes sense if you want people to think you mean power when you actually dont. See, they are PR savants, perception v reality.

I am not saying they wont be, anaconda is the safe bet for most power, just that their pr team chose that word for a reason and that reason is simply they had no way of knowing whether they would in fact be most powerful. But they 100% aim to be the benchmark at the end if next gen.
 
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LordOfChaos

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i just want to put this here : https://www.amd.com/en/products/professional-graphics/radeon-pro-ssg
i believe that sony is using this technology for their ssd.

If they do I really wish Other OS would come back, those cards are like $6999. We could get back to a console being a standout general compute per dollar machine like the Air Force PS3 cluster lol.

I'm not sure anything pointed to this other than that one confirmed fake leak that name dropped HBCC though? Also I'm not really sure if from a game perspective, anything is much different between reading off a fast custom SSD, and looking at the SSD as an extended framebuffer and caching into VRAM. Especially with the SSD patents about fast controller table lookups with SRAM etc.
 
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TBiddy

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If I'm not wrong Cerny confirmed that at Wired article... it is HDMI 2.1 compatible.
Even the XB1X is HDMI 2.1 compatible (although I'm not sure it ever got certified), so the next gen should absolutely be.

Using the word benchmark makes sense if you want people to think you mean power when you actually dont. See, they are PR savants, perception v reality.
Indeed. It's funny how some people underestimate Microsofts ability to say a whole lot of words without saying anything with substance. If Phil wanted to say, that it was going to be the most powerful console, that's what he'd say. He specifically used the term "set the benchmark" to be able to turn that phrase into whatever he wants it to be.
 
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LordOfChaos

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If I'm not wrong Cerny confirmed that at Wired article... it is HDMI 2.1 compatible.
Yeah, hope it also uses VRR and most games support a mode for it, more important to me than 120Hz which few games will hope to hit. But being able to uncap games that can't quite hit 60 and still not tear frames would be awesome.
 

ethomaz

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Even the XB1X is HDMI 2.1 compatible (although I'm not sure it ever got certified), so the next gen should absolutely be.
Xbox One X is HDMI 2.0.

But seems like it received a update to add some HDMI 2.1 features.
 
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