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[quest]

It’s a tricky proposition, but with some luck Sony will remain big enough and influential enough to usher in their sku as the baseline. This is how you advance the sector.

PC users will likely see pci ssd as a common option and even gfx cards with ssd on board. XbX May be close enough to see minimal difference.

Come too far under the baseline, quality will suffer as usual.

You expect me to believe any major third party would have the balls to tell a 100 million steam user buy our game it will run like shit until Samsung or crucial reverse engineer the Sony SSD and you purchase it. It could be year or 2 champ just hang in there. Or they they take the reasonable approach and just make the run of the mill SSD a requirement nvme or Sata.

 

[Agnostic2020]

You could have all the tflops in the world at your disposal, but that wouldn't mean much if your busses and bandwith isn't scaled along with it. If you have a huge hungry monster to feed, you rly need a bigger meatwagon to feed it with.

so you think PS5 might have more balanced bandwidth to feed the gpu causing the GPu not to bottleneck and perform better and more often at its peak?

ok that kinda makes sense

 

[Handy Fake]

You could have all the tflops in the world at your disposal, but that wouldn't mean much if your busses and bandwith isn't scaled along with it. If you have a huge hungry monster to feed, you rly need a bigger meatwagon to feed it with.

I think in this analogy you mean a bigger mouth.

 

[Reindeer]

Yep, games advance, but so do the tools....common sense, it’s all software

This game is created by one man.

 

[mitchman]

No, that as a big surprise for US. MS already knew for a good minute Sony was going with 8GB GDDR5. It's not like they could've quickly redesigned the XBO's memory controller to support GDDR5 or place in huge orders of GDDR5 already contractually placed for Sony and other companies.

According to Penello, MS did not know about the 8GB memory. Are you claiming he's lying?

That was a long time ago, so pulling from memory.

Nothing official in terms of knowing what they were doing of course but I do remember that we knew they were going to have more TFLOPS, and they were using GDDR5 vs DDR3.

However (and I've posted this before so it's well known) we were planning to have more system memory, and there was a debate about ESRAM (and the success that EDRAM saw on 360) and how much real-world difference there would be.

I think the only surprise was them going to 8gb.

Google it to find the forum post he wrote that.

 

[RaySoft]

I think in this analogy you mean a bigger mouth.

If the mouth was small, you wouldn't need a bigger meatwagon in the first place..

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

u need to read his sentence again. he said performance . not TF

He said performance not TFLOPS, no?

"At the beginning of the year PS5 was still the one that offered the best performance"


CPU / GPU overhead are more related with how good the API is then the actual clock of the CPU.
A software layer can use more CPU in a machine than another to do exactly same thing.
That is why a DevKit could have different performance with the same hardware and there is updates for the devkit.

Oh yeah you're right. So XSX could have a higher Tflops number but bit slower memory access so not as balanced maybe.

 

[ethomaz]

Oh yeah you're right. So XSX could have a higher Tflops number but bit slower memory access so not as balanced maybe.

That too

Hardware parts can hold others hardware parts to reach fully potential (eg. memory bandwidth holding GPU performance).
Software can be slower than other software (eg. a lot of abstraction layers with virtual machines like Xbox One can make the game software run slower compared with a more direct access to hardware like PS4).

A mix of both.

 

[RaySoft]

so you think PS5 might have more balanced bandwidth to feed the gpu causing the GPu not to bottleneck and perform better and more often at its peak?

ok that kinda makes sense

I would believe both consoles are well balanced, not just the PS5.
If MS' RT tech consumes compute power from it's GPU and the PS5 have a dedicated RT engine, the xsx would need more CU's than the PS5 to keep parity.

 

[Burrito Bandito]

Right, I think your speaking for the rest without knowing. Anything to push the narrative

But u know some ppl always have to be right and know it all lol

I'll end on tht note though. Shaving off any amount of time off loading doesn't matter now lol smh

you are simply making it a bigger deal than it actually is simply because rumors suggest your system of preference will have the edge in this category. thats it.

Anyone who says they are buying one system over another over .5 or a second difference in loading time is simply lying, sorry. You may have other reasons to buy one system but its not a minuscule loading difference—not unless literally everything else about the two consoles are exactly the same.

 

[Shmunter]

You expect me to believe any major third party would have the balls to tell a 100 million steam user buy our game it will run like shit until Samsung or crucial reverse engineer the Sony SSD and you purchase it. It could be year or 2 champ just hang in there. Or they they take the reasonable approach and just make the run of the mill SSD a requirement nvme or Sata.

You think 100 million Steam users can run AAA games today, much less in their full glory - Champ? Lol

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Quickly.

There is nothing more to add than what has been said by any developer who has commented. At the beginning of the year PS5 was still the one that offered the best performance. I don't know if that has changed with the new Devkits, I don't have access to that information at this time and personally I think that (theoretically) I won't have physical access until early summer, for my part. And I don't like to talk about what I haven't personally experienced. I can say that he says "X" and he says "Y", but since the opinion is so different I prefer not to internalize this information.

If you want I invent data, or if you want I tell you a number ... 13.8 (and I start the speculative machinery). But I don't think it's right.

Now what will not let you sleep will be to think if I have given you a false number ... or maybe not (just kidding).

Do you understand where I want to go? (I don't know if this expression is used in English).

Now I really have to go, until next time.

Can you explain why there haven't been any GPU benchmark testings uncovered through database mining yet, which substantiate this supposed performance edge for PS5 in its current state?

At this point, I want some evidence of hard data. No hard data, no sell. But I might keep browsing

 

[Burrito Bandito]

You could have all the tflops in the world at your disposal, but that wouldn't mean much if your busses and bandwith isn't scaled along with it. If you have a huge hungry monster to feed, you rly need a bigger meatwagon to feed it with.

im 99.9999999% sure engineers at the level to work for MS and Sony design teams would be FULLY aware of that.

 

[Agnostic2020]

I would believe both consoles are well balanced, not just the PS5.
If MS' RT tech consumes compute power from it's GPU and the PS5 have a dedicated RT engine, the xsx would need more CU's than the PS5 to keep parity.

could that be why we also keep hearing that PS5 does raytracing better than XSX?(that could also be bunch of BS rumor though)

 

[Handy Fake]

If the mouth was small, you wouldn't need a bigger meatwagon in the first place..

See, I'm thinking the system is the belly, the bus is the mouth and the SSD is the meatwagon...

 

[ethomaz]

im 99.9999999% sure engineers at the level to work for MS and Sony design teams would be FULLY aware of that.

Well MS engineers probably learned that few years ago.

 

[Insane Metal]

LOL @ Tidux, but here it is

 

[ethomaz]

LOL @ Tidux, but here it is

He gathered on GAF

Final devkits are absolutely not out for a November launch.
PS4 and XB1 final devkits were around June/July after E3.

 

[splattered]

Ahhh I dunno about the balance issue. If you go back and look through interviews and stuff Phil Spencer has repeatedly said that they are putting a major focus on power AND balance. So if at this stage the XsX is more powerful TF wise but not as balanced... it very well may end up that the retail units and newer dev kits provide both the power and full balance to take advantage of it.

I'm however not expecting 3d audio, haptic triggers, or the fastest SSD in the XsX.

Curious to see if MS will innovate with anything like this next gen or if they will just be more about straightforward power balance and nurturing talent in their studios to deliver great games and service without the extra gimmicks.

One thing that's really up in the air for next gen in my eyes is VR support. He's said nah people dont want VR. But he also has said consumers weren't as worried about 60fps. All of this is changing for next gen so I'm wondering at what point does MS jump into the home console VR space too. It'll happen eventually but maybe they will really wait for higher fidelity, better tracking, AND wireless convenience that will be actually affordable for the customer.

 

[Insane Metal]

Lol these guys are absolutely delusional.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I never thought the lowly console would match SSD speeds in my year old PC with its m.2 NVMe SSD drive. I'm a fully paid up member of the PC Master Race but what will we say when consoles have faster loading? It's the worst nightmare for PC elitism, certainly in this aspect.

It's some leap to go from 5400rpm HDD to SSD let alone HDD to NVMe SSD. But they've gone a step further than that even and the SSD looks like being faster than desktop NVMe drives you can buy because of its integration with the system as a whole (GPU, CPU cores and memory).

I said couple years ago, next gen consoles have to punch above their weight by leveraging advantages where PCs, being multi-purpose machines, can't assail them. So it's smart on the console engineers to identify areas like total system/software integration of the hardware/OS to speed up loading inside and out of playing.

When I want to play RDR2 on PC last night, my desktop loads in about 9 seconds, super fast. But then the Rockstar launcher takes about 25 secs to load. Then the game loads after about 30 seconds. Pain in the barse.

 

[saintjules]

LOL @ Tidux, but here it is

Someone quickly shot him down, hah.

 

[On Demand]

As an Xbox fan, who thinks the Xbox one controller is amazing compared to the PS4 one, I can honestly say that the fact they have done nothing more than add a bloody share button to the SX controller is embarrassing. The only other possible things it *may* have are usb-c connection on the pad, which is neither here nor there, and a built in battery, which is 50/50 on if anybody even wants it. Compared to the ps5 controller, which had made really big changes (built in mic, no light, better i assume battery, new sticks, new triggers, resistive buttons and triggers that can be coded per game, etc etc) it’s had barely nothing done to it other than it got a tiny bit smaller...?

Seems no contest who did more there.

Elite controller.

I think they don't want to add too many things to the regular Xbox controller since that would make the Elite look less premium? It would be bad if your normal $60-$70 controller has features like resistive triggers while your $200 controller doesn't.

They never added any new features to the Elite series 2, HD rumble, resistive triggers. So it's expected imo the base controller doesn't have anything new either. Disappointing though yes.

People think the DS4 and DS5 features are gimmicks, but I like the lights bar, the mic, the gyro controls, and now with DS5 an even better mic, resistive triggers, haptic feed back.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Something worth noting, sony sells playstation in alot more countries than MS. Alot of countries are not as rich as the UK,US etc that's why the 399 price point was so popular because it was affordable for the masses. Playstation is a world wide brand, they have to meet the expectations of the consumer on a much larger scale compared to MS because they sell consoles in quite alot less markets. It's fair enough wanting a big beefy console but that comes at a risk of not being affordable for people in alot of markets. They have to hit that pricing sweet spot.

Dude, I'm from Portugal. In Europe only east countries can beat us in the poor-position shitlist! When PS3 came out, i was there first day buying the Resistance FoM bundle with 2nd Dualshock for my kid and second game (don't ask me what my memory suck) i must have spent more than 700€ _ that was probably my salary back then lol! (I bought it with the shops x24 payment plan ofc. )
So, yeah i think 500€ PS5 is going to be just fine.

oh, we have now a Feeling expert. nice. what next?

VFXVeteran is a rockets software programmer, i think you don’t want to hurt is feelings...

SuperData: Games hit $120.1 billion in 2019, with Fortnite topping $1.8 billion

The combined game industry grew 3% to $120.1 billion in 2019, according to SuperData. Fortnite generated $1.8 billion in the year.

venturebeat.com

"Overall, the revenue of $120.1 billion in 2019 was up 4% from $115.5 billion in 2018. The 2019 revenue included $64.4 billion for mobile games, $29.6 billion for PC, and $15.4 billion for consoles."

Are you telling us devs that want to work in only one platform are going mobile?

if everyone is going to be held accountable by that standard, mr. “for the kids” ryan wouldnt be allowed to talk anymore.

Wuat!? I can't even... where did Ryan make predictions about Series X Tflops, or Microsoft Xbox plans based on his experience and his assnalisis of Ms recent history? I must have missed it.
But even then... Penello is out of Ms,... Ryan is now SIE top dog _ and he shouldn't be allowed to talk!? Lol wuat!?

Also, any developer worth their salt knows that the stuff you can do with sound on ps5... is old as shit and can be done elsewhere in a different way. I was doing the same thing years ago. I don’t know why it’s getting so much traction.

Are you talking about the dedicated 3D audio chip mate?

 

[saintjules]

LOL @ Tidux, but here it is

Someone quickly shot him down, heh.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Someone quickly shot him down, heh.

if someone is wrong about one thing software related doesnt mean he is wrong about everything or hardware related stuff. not saying he is legit ofcourse . going by this mentality no one has to even talk about Albert pennelo and his 2013 predictions and how it turned out which is not a logical approach of course.

 

[RaySoft]

See, I'm thinking the system is the belly, the bus is the mouth and the SSD is the meatwagon...

the meatwagon is (in my mind atleast) the wagon (bus/bandwith) that transfers meat (data) between ssd and memory for the apu to consume it.

 

[Nikana]

Someone quickly shot him down, heh.

Well with all do respect.. Death Standing is not on PC...or anything because its not a thing. Death Stranding though...

 

[Reindeer]

Lol these guys are absolutely delusional.

Fox just goes with whatever rumour is floating out there at the moment lol.

 

[Insane Metal]

 

[Agnostic2020]

Fox just goes with whatever rumour is floating out there at the moment lol.

100% lol.he reads here or RE and makes tweets. give us something substantial if u know anything lol

 

[Deleted member 775630]

if someone is wrong about one thing software related doesnt mean he is wrong about everything or hardware related stuff. not saying he is legit ofcourse . going by this mentality no one has to even talk about Albert pennelo and his 2013 predictions and how it turned out which is not a logical approach of course.

Yeah but one is a random guy on twitter, and the other was the head of marketing for Microsoft... Bit of a difference there.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

ANIMAL1975 Yeah, I’ve been working with audio for a number of years now, openAL, EAX, all sorts. And what they are doing has been possible for a long time, in software, with no real performance penalties. Sound occlusion and 3d feedback is one of my jams, lol. It can be done on an onboard sound card for lords sake.

It’s good, and I’m glad they are putting sound at the front, because that has drove me mental for years. But it’s nothing MS couldn’t offer kf they wanted, and with no real penalty. You may lose, like, under a single percent of your processing power to it, but that’s with proper 3d position occlusion mapping based on depth and surface reflection. But I’ve been working with it for a long time, and it’s nothing out of this world.

 

[Reindeer]

100% lol.he reads here or RE and makes tweets. give us something substantial if u know anything lol

I especially find it funny how he regards himself as insider and talks about knowing well informed insiders in the industry in his videos, yet the guy has basically repeated every rumour by now.

 

[Zero909]

this could be a launch title for XSX

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Nah looks very current gen, to my eyes.

As for Tidux all I will say is... lol

 

[Zero909]

Nah looks very current gen, to my eyes.

As for Tidux all I will say is... lol

cross gen launch title, also the dev said this game will launch in Fall 2020

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

According to Penello, MS did not know about the 8GB memory. Are you claiming he's lying?



Google it to find the forum post he wrote that.

No, but there's something else called a timeline. Internally MS would have known about Sony's 8GB GDDR5 well before we the public did. I mean hell, right now both companies probably have a good bit more insight into each other's upcoming systems than we do, it is not improbable there was similar happening in 2012 and 2013.

These are multi-billion dollar megaconglomerates, they're more on the up-and-up about each other and ahead of us by a fair margin on these things. Always.

this could be a launch title for XSX

"Panzer Dragoon-like experience in an open world"

That'd be one hell of a launch title ngl. Sounds interesting on the premise alone.

Probably best video on the topic I've seen all week tbh. Fair, balanced and insightful.

 

[XinTniX]

IMO if Sony decides to go with a Premium System from the start, it's almost sure that it will have a stronger machine, because Sony has more know-how than Microsoft on Hardware development. Microsoft only was able to put the same advantage that Sony did with PS4/Xone (on the same day), releasing a system a year later and costing $100 more. So history and both companies' profiles show that the key point is the price (once both systems will be released together). If Sony goes with 399 vs 499 obviously XsX will have some minor advantage, if both go with the same price, we can wait for some huge advantage for Sony in some area, it seems to be this SSD disparity.

 

[Neo Blaster]

this could be a launch title for XSX

Nothing that couldn't be possible this generation graphically wise...not talking about its other qualities, of course.

 

[martino]

IMO if Sony decides to go with a Premium System from the start, it's almost sure that it will have a stronger machine, because Sony has more know-how than Microsoft on Hardware development. Microsoft only was able to put the same advantage that Sony did with PS4/Xone (on the same day), releasing a system a year later and costing $100 more. So history and both companies' profiles show that the key point is the price. If Sony goes with 399 vs 499 obviously XsX will have some minor advantage, if both go with the same price, we can wait for some huge advantage for Sony in some area, it seems to be this SSD disparity.

you can't look into history to have conclusion on a the scenario where the two are serious about power and launching sma time because it doesn't exist.

 

[DeepEnigma]

cross gen launch title, also the dev said this game will launch in Fall 2020

Odd hearing "cross gen" when we have BC right out of the gate.

Are they going to sell a XSX copy that works only for XSX? Sell the XB1 copy with a label on the box?

Sell the XB1 copy inside the XSX box?

Hmmm.

Nothing that couldn't be possible this generation graphically wise...not talking about its other qualities, of course.

Well yeah, it's "cross gen".

 

[DeepEnigma]

this could be a launch title for XSX

Reminds me of this game, full stop.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Odd hearing "cross gen" when we have BC right out of the gate.

Are they going to sell a XSX copy that works only for XSX? Sell the XB1 copy with a label on the box?

Sell the XB1 copy inside the XSX box?

Hmmm.

Install Disk, then download XSX content pack. Just like they do with the XOX.

 

[JLB]

Dude, I'm from Portugal. In Europe only east countries can beat us in the poor-position shitlist! When PS3 came out, i was there first day buying the Resistance FoM bundle with 2nd Dualshock for my kid and second game (don't ask me what my memory suck) i must have spent more than 700€ _ that was probably my salary back then lol! (I bought it with the shops x24 payment plan ofc. )
So, yeah i think 500€ PS5 is going to be just fine.


VFXVeteran is a rockets software programmer, i think you don’t want to hurt is feelings...


Are you telling us devs that want to work in only one platform are going mobile?


Wuat!? I can't even... where did Ryan make predictions about Series X Tflops, or Microsoft Xbox plans based on his experience and his assnalisis of Ms recent history? I must have missed it.
But even then... Penello is out of Ms,... Ryan is now SIE top dog _ and he shouldn't be allowed to talk!? Lol wuat!?


Are you talking about the dedicated 3D audio chip mate?

You didnt understand my message, thats what i was saying.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Install Disk, then download XSX content pack. Just like they do with the XOX.

That is the ideal situation, yes.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

thank you, i think this two lines summarize the whole thing
this is what my few friends who work in the industry have said to me repeatedly in the past years

What else do your friends use to tell you...

ANIMAL1975 Yeah, I’ve been working with audio for a number of years now, openAL, EAX, all sorts. And what they are doing has been possible for a long time, in software, with no real performance penalties. Sound occlusion and 3d feedback is one of my jams, lol. It can be done on an onboard sound card for lords sake.

It’s good, and I’m glad they are putting sound at the front, because that has drove me mental for years. But it’s nothing MS couldn’t offer kf they wanted, and with no real penalty. You may lose, like, under a single percent of your processing power to it, but that’s with proper 3d position occlusion mapping based on depth and surface reflection. But I’ve been working with it for a long time, and it’s nothing out of this world.

Thanks mate, but what about the fact that we will be able to experience the 3D audio goodness on our normal TV speakers and year phones? Everyone will have it without needing to buy expensive hardware, that's cool.

 

[ethomaz]

Someone quickly shot him down, heh.

It is a very weird quote indeed when Death Stranding was announced as PS5 and PC.

 

[mckmas8808]

If you guys are looking for CG, then you got about 3-4 more generations to go.

I think you guys are automatically equating incredible artistic direction (ala Uncharted 4) to technical showcase (TFLOPS). The two are completely different. ND will still make incredible art like always, it'll just be at a higher fidelity (i.e. using 4k textures instead of 2k textures, for example). But it's not going to look like CG (which is really refining even more fine-grained graphics into the mix (ala path tracing everything).

The equation that 1.8TFLOPS = incredible art direction and 12TFLOPS = CG movie is just completely misguided and wrong. I could easily eat up TFLOPS with the same game rendering at true 4k/60FPS.

Why are you wasting APU cycles with it being 60 fps?

 

[ethomaz]

Why are you wasting APU cycles with it being 60 fps?

Yeap you have VRR now.
Just let any framerate that ended in dev, tells gamers to turn VRR on and call a day.
Games dipping between 30-50fps will all feels 60fps.

Spoiler

My biggest fear... devs stop to optimize to console platform why now they have other shit tools to hide their atrocious framerate dips.