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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

stetiger

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Every game streams data. With 5GB/s read they only need a relatively small amount of main memory, so even binned HBM may be enough supply. Rather have similar or better memory bandwidth and more budget towards a faster/bigger APU.
No, too much latency for that. An ssd will be used to stream assets such as textures, models, and other small stuff. Anything that requires active calculation and dynamic programming will be in cache. It will help however free up tons of memory
 
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vpance

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Not true, SSD would only be good for streaming/reading assets. To render everything at any given frame you need to look at total ram available
The benefit from SSD is it will free up ram memory that would otherwise be used for asset preloading. A few stacks of HBM won't produce high enough bandwith
If PS5 has less ram than XBOX2 they will be eaten alive on multiplatforms, Sony knows this, it will be worse than having less TFs
What do you mean only good for streaming? That's a big part of what games do as you move around the world. That's why they chose to make that Spiderman demo as an example of the potential. To render anything you just need enough to build the framebuffer.
 

SonGoku

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What do you mean only good for streaming? That's a big part of what games do as you move around the world. That's why they chose to make that Spiderman demo as an example of the potential. To render anything you just need enough to build the framebuffer.
Because reading assets its not a replacement for ram especially if your competition has custom fast SSD and 24GB GDDR6
 

Silentium

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I finally saw the video. lol

So they said the SSD acts like RAM... and 40x the speed... since this gen the HDDs were rated at 100MB/s.... it should be a 4GB/s bandwidth as well, likely the same as PS5, no?

Why were people saying 2GB/s?

Evilms Evilms that's likely 99% certain, lol. And 24GB sounds pretty good imo.
I imagine they are talking about the SSD being connected via the NVMe interface (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NVM_Express). Something like the already available Samsung 970 Pro NVMe M.2 for PC. Benchmarks compared with a standard SATA SSD here: https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Samsung-970-Pro-NVMe-PCIe-M2-512GB-vs-Samsung-860-Evo-500GB/m498971vsm428560
 
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Don't know if this Navi 5700 XT leak had been posted yet...

When the pcb board leak happened and Buildzoid did his quick overview he mentioned the 3 hole blower setup and was hoping they didn't use it. Looks like AMD is using a blower on their reference cards after all. I had 7950s with blower and they are loud and whiney.
 
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Aceofspades

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I love how Achillias confidence went from (Jun 1st)
Playstation 5 more powerful than the strongest Xbox console. Yeah great joke, they won't let that happen anymore after the Xbox One debacle, which they put right with the One X. Microsoft knows it's all about the raw power.
To (Today)
How can you mention something when you don't know what your rival have done yet. That wouldn't make any kind of logical sense.
🤣
 

Achillias

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I love how Achillias confidence went from (Jun 1st)

To (Today)


🤣
I don't see anything related to confidence. I'm a Xbox gamer you're a Playstation 4 boy, and my view definitely hasn't changed. Actually the opposite. People who are saying that the PS5 will be more powerful, didn't provide a thing to reconsider my view. I'm actually more excited by the Scarlett news than I thought l would be over the next Xbox console. And I'm sticking with that.
 
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TeamGhobad

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My theory on Lockhart is that its Anaconda with a smaller storage and no disc drive, also doesn't come with a headset and might ship with an xbox one controller. 100bucks cheaper. just a barebones anaconda. makes sense.
 

Imtjnotu

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My theory on Lockhart is that its Anaconda with a smaller storage and no disc drive, also doesn't come with a headset and might ship with an xbox one controller. 100bucks cheaper. just a barebones anaconda. makes sense.
now we are completely changing lockhart.... no
 

TeamGhobad

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Why do people think Sony will just roll over and allow MS to have the more powerful console? imo its 50-50, the problem is that its more paramount for MS to have the most power than it is for Sony.
 

Geki-D

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Why do people think Sony will just roll over and allow MS to have the more powerful console? imo its 50-50, the problem is that its more paramount for MS to have the most power than it is for Sony.
Probably because MS make such a big deal out of it. And as you say, it's a bit less important for Sony because their selling point has always been exclusives. MS can't really count on their own games all that much right now till the studios they've purchased actually make some and even then, they haven't exactly bought up any studios known for their AAA experiences.
 
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TeamGhobad

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Probably because MS make such a big deal out of it. And as you say, it's a bit less important for Sony because their selling point has always been exclusives. MS can't really count on their own games all that much right now till the studios they've purchased actually make some and even then, they haven't exactly bought up any studios known for their AAA experiences.
I agree other than Obsidian its all gamepass launch studios. The Intiative game might be stellar but thats 2023 probably.
 
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Tarin02543

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I don't know why, but I've got a feeling Microsoft's console will be more advanced than Sony's.

Probably the X still gives them the advantange as it is the most powerful console today.
 

TeamGhobad

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I don't know why, but I've got a feeling Microsoft's console will be more advanced than Sony's.

Probably the X still gives them the advantange as it is the most powerful console today.
when phil spencer talked about scarlett and how cloud is integrated into the system i knew the 4chan leaks were true. we have another gimped SoC on our hands.
 

Silentium

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I wonder the extent to which Xbox Game Pass Ultimate (or just increased take up of Live Gold + Game Pass) changes the equation on lifecycle customer revenue such that Microsoft can be more aggressive re specs and pricing. Game attach rates (+ the associated disc licencing revenue) have always been an important part of the pricing equation, but players in the space have definitely gotten better at understanding and maximising customer lifecycle value (see expansions -> DLC -> micro-transactions).

Given that Microsoft is starting behind Sony next generation, and maintaining the 'power gap' seems like it will be an important part of the marketing strategy, I wonder if they will be willing to hit the market with a powerful console at a very competitive price point and make it up on the back end.
 
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TeamGhobad

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Thank you. I thought you meant there was a leak mentioning Xbox being weaker because of something to do with cloud integration. I think I remember reading something like that. Wish I remember the exact details.
that was a reddit post dont remember where but that the SoC had cloud stuff making it weaker. FP64 was mentioned.
 
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archy121

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The only difference will be the logo on the boxes. Yawn.
The only real difference will be where it counts - The Games. This is great news for gamers as developers will be pushed harder than ever to differentiate the platforms through games.

For me it will be a Sony buy because of their bigger array of unique games with great story telling. They consistently push the hardware to its limits. E.g TLOU2, Death Stranded, Ghost of Tsushima .. unbelievable to view on this gen.

PC will be a better alternative than ever to XBOX with the game pass.
From the MS conference I was only interested by Gears5 and Halo assuming it can return to it’s former glory. Nothing else stood out for me. MS have a long way to go and catch up with Sony when it comes to game offerings.
 

xool

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I swear I can't hear SoC. Anw, at leadt they spoke about GDDR6 and I can see the Samsung logo on the video. Of course Digital Foundry will take that.
"The combination of the S O C and the solid state drive.." (it does sound like SSD first time you hear it)

[2:06 timestamp]

What I don't understand is why MS is exclusively using people's moms and dads to describe the console .. I get that gamers are getting older, but bring back J Allard for christs sake - this is dull
 
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CyberPanda

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"The combination of the S O C and the solid state drive.." (it does sound like SSD first time you hear it)

[2:06 timestamp]

What I don't understand is why MS is exclusively using people's moms and dads to describe the console .. I get that gamers are getting older, but bring back J Allard for christs sake - this is dull
All corporate PR people are lame, but J Allard was a good speaker. Too bad Ballmer scared him off.
 

xool

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All corporate PR people are lame, but J Allard was a good speaker. Too bad Ballmer scared him off.
I'm not sure these are even PR. Major Nelson is a good saleman, with at least some charisma.

This has the feel of "we just like you" blandness.
 

CyberPanda

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I'm not sure these are even PR. Major Nelson is a good saleman, with at least some charisma.

This has the feel of "we just like you" blandness.
At the end of the day whether it be Ms, Sony or Nintendo. They will make all these silly videos to sell us their ‘vision’, and in the end will want us to fish out our hard earned money to fall for their hype.
 

Lort

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"The combination of the S O C and the solid state drive.." (it does sound like SSD first time you hear it)

[2:06 timestamp]

What I don't understand is why MS is exclusively using people's moms and dads to describe the console .. I get that gamers are getting older, but bring back J Allard for christs sake - this is dull
20 year olds dont build cpus for multinationals... as the intro said its Xbox A team who developed their best solutions over the years.

And yes i thought they said ssd at first and was like wtf lol.
 
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ethomaz

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"The combination of the S O C and the solid state drive.." (it does sound like SSD first time you hear it)

[2:06 timestamp]

What I don't understand is why MS is exclusively using people's moms and dads to describe the console .. I get that gamers are getting older, but bring back J Allard for christs sake - this is dull
I'm not English fluently but I can hear only SOC :D

When some said they did hear SSD I had to check twice trying to hear "SSD" lol in mu mind SSD spell is too different I guess.
 
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Fake

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You've finally put a name on Project Scarlett and started talking about it. To me, that name sounds like Project Scorpio, a big beefy new console, singular. But last year Phil Spencer talked about new Xbox consoles, plural. What should we expect next year?
Matt Booty:
Everything we're talking about - we talked about today. We're not talking about more than what we showed in the video, and what Phil talked about. Project Scarlett is our console plan headed into 2020.
You did say console not consoles plan there
LOL. DF are really salty about that old video with Phil say 'consoles' in plural.
 
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TeamGhobad

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lets speculate a bit. if both both MS and Sony have an APU with a similar CU count in what way can one be 25-30% more powerful?
 

ethomaz

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LOL. DF are really salty about that old video with Phil say 'consoles' in plural.
I can understand the DF guy... he asked a question and Booty's reply was completely unrelated.
I should do the same and make clear I was talking about "why you said consoles before" and move on too.
 
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ethomaz

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lets speculate a bit. if both both MS and Sony have an APU with a similar CU count in what way can one be 25-30% more powerful?
The number of CUs is related to how much space Sony or MS will use with custom parts.
The final chip will be about the same size but depending in how much the custom part take it could drastic change the number of CUs.

Look at Xbox One's APU that had way lower CU count due MS having to use a lot of space for the custom eSRAM.
 
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TeamGhobad

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The number of CUs is related to how much space Sony or MS will use with custom parts.
The final chip will be about the same size but depending in how much the custom part take it could drastic change the number of CUs.

Look at Xbox One's APU that had way lower CU count due MS having to use a lot of space for the custom eSRAM.
right but lets pretend the final SoC is similar, similar CU count no esram and all that. clock speeds are similar too. What magic sauce can one side use to be more powerful than the other?
 
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ethomaz

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right but lets pretend the final SoC is similar, same CU count no esram and all that. clock speeds are similar too. What magic sauce can one side use to be more powerful that the other?
If they have the same CU count and the same clock then the GPU will have the same raw power.
But I believe that is pretty hard to happen.

It is not the same APU... it is a semi-custom silicon where the client choose what to put inside the APU so the space for GPU parts will be different between each other... the cooling system choice and console box air system will be different affecting directly the clocks.
 
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xool

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lets speculate a bit. if both both MS and Sony have an APU with a similar CU count in what way can one be 25-30% more powerful?
1.8 Gb/s RAM vs 1.4 Gb/s RAM gives a 28% bandwidth advantage to PS5 if memory is the bottleneck [edit Gb/s not GHz]

Reason why we might think those numbers here www.neogaf.com/threads/next-gen-ps5-next-xbox-ot-speculation-analysis-leaks-thread.1480978/page-80#post-254499757 though bear in mind these are dev kit specs, not the consoles

[edit] I believe next gen perf. is going to be heavily bandwidth limited because the price of RAM is too much for the dual/quad ported memory the systems actually really need .. and I always trust 4chan leaks .. so this gentlemen is the answer ..
 
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Evilms

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For people who think it will be 24 tflops (y)


If you let me back I'll be here. Back to Scarlett... you mentioned it has four times the power of Xbox One X, which certainly sounds good. But what does that mean?

Matt Booty: It's a few things - it's the combination of speed, not just of the SSD but of the processor, the performance of the GPU and RAM, but we're also in a world where speed is starting not to matter. You can make RAM faster either by speeding up the way you access it or by adding more access points. Just think, what are all the things right now which take you out of a game? You're playing then suddenly *bloop* a load screen pops up and drops you out. Our goal is to get rid of those things, that's what we're after.

What do you think about the state of the industry right now? When you look around, who's here, who's not, what trends are you seeing in the industry?



 
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