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[Gamernyc78]

Can I find out what this statement is based on? I often saw that you write something similar at every opportunity. Do you have any serious sources? Because, if not, it looks like naive fantasies from the depths of your smoking thoughts. Logically, it makes no sense for Sony to release their games from internal studios on a PC, they need to sell their platform and services - this is the main task. And no, Sony is not Microsoft, because for them Playstation is their main brand and their most profitable business. It is possible that some small games will appear, Dreams for example. Because such games can expand the community of people creating something unique. You say that times are changing. Yes, of course they are changing, and the dependence of platforms on content becomes even more obvious. And high-quality exclusive content is valued more strongly - this is what attracts the player, inciting to buy a console.

I 1000% agree, the same way exclusive content causes certain ppl to choose Amazon prime streaming over Netflix or vice versa or makes them have multiple subscriptions. Right now I've had conversations with ppl tht are like "damn I have to watch Disney's mandalorian I'm going to have to get a sub". Same with consoles, must have exclusives sell hardware regardless of how some ppl with narratives try to paint it. Thy only try to paint it another way bcus their system of choice has lost tht exclusive edge.

 

[Fake]

How many devs will need to talk about the identical specs between PS5 and Scarlett had?
Next gen will be near or almost the same in specs.

 

[VFXVeteran]

If you have any idea how computer hardware is made and more specifically how video game hardware is developed than you would know (as I do) that I am not suggesting AMD's GPU chips were chosen this year. That's silly. In reality, Sony and Microsoft were meeting with AMD back in 2014 to scope out the next gen consoles and as part of that AMD shared their roadmap for the timeframe they were targeting to launch (2019-2020). Every year, AMD continued to provide updates to both of them on how their roadmap is trending and what hardware will be available in time for the console launches. In other words, WE may not know what is coming out next year exactly in terms of RDNA2 but Sony and Microsoft have know for YEARS. Not only that but their respective chips have already been finalized and are in the final stages of testing currently. All I was pointing out was those chips are targeting the latest and greatest that AMD can product in time for launch. The fact that we know AMD is releasing new GPUs in the same year of the new consoles with features that align with the confirmed information we have on the next gen console specs points to it being feasible that some derivative of those new GPUs are likely what will be included in the next gen boxes. Again, Sony and Microsoft have been developing this chip for years and at this point it's already finalized. We (the public) just don't know what it is...yet. But if you pay attention, you can deduce a lot from the products and information that is available today.

You are absolutely correct. And I already mentioned the chips are already finalized.

I was talking about the "speed" of the GPU not the architecture. It is illogical (to me) for me to deduce that 24G, 2T, 8c/16 cpu, 1080Ti + ray-tracing cores (equal to??) = $500 ps5. Something has to be scaled down. So what would it be? Going from what I've heard, a 1080 performance + some hardware ray-tracing was the target. Could they have made it equal or better than a 1080Ti/5700XT for pennies on the dollar? Possible. But highly unlikely. I suspect that their GPU is the weakest part of the console and will be the bottleneck next-gen. A hardware+software hybrid is only going to give you but so many features. The driver will have to be transparent so that devs don't have to worry about how the computation will be dished out.

Read this:

What Exactly is AMD's Plan for Ray Tracing? | Digital Trends

What exactly is AMD's plan for ray tracing? We don't have long to wait to find out for sure, but here's everything we know about AMD ray tracing right now.

www.digitaltrends.com

 

[Mass Shift]

You might prepare yourself for being wrong. You never know.

I'm almost 100% sure that's going to be a lot of people by the time the big reveals are done. It's interesting when you're just paying attention to what Sony and MS are ACTUALLY saying vs the vast chamber of interpretation that people keep adding things to.

One emphasizes faster load times and the other keeps talking about power and performance. They're basically spelling it out for us what they chose to prioritize when they made their engineering choices.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Can I find out what this statement is based on? I often saw that you write something similar at every opportunity. Do you have any serious sources? Because, if not, it looks like naive fantasies from the depths of your smoking thoughts. Logically, it makes no sense for Sony to release their games from internal studios on a PC, they need to sell their platform and services - this is the main task. And no, Sony is not Microsoft, because for them Playstation is their main brand and their most profitable business. It is possible that some small games will appear, Dreams for example. Because such games can expand the community of people creating something unique. You say that times are changing. Yes, of course they are changing, and the dependence of platforms on content becomes even more obvious. And high-quality exclusive content is valued more strongly - this is what attracts the player, inciting to buy a console.

Nope. Not going to engage in this.

 

[Red_Driver85]

Nope. Not going to engage in this.

Thanks. That was all I needed to know.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Thanks. That was all I needed to know.

Yep. See ya next year when the news shows up on the websites.

 

[Red_Driver85]

Yep. See ya next year when the news shows up on the websites.

I look forward with great impatience (actually not), what other story will you tell.

 

[Negotiator]

I guess this guy's agenda is to keep port begging for Sony exclusives to come on PC, there's no other plausible explanation... and mocking console users on top of that.

He doesn't care about buying a PS5 or Scarlett (which is basically the topic of this thread, aka next-gen discussion).

 

[Foamy]

How many devs will need to talk about the identical specs between PS5 and Scarlett had?
Next gen will be near or almost the same in specs.

Which seems like bad news to me in that they'll probley only be in the 10 teraflops region because anything higher would just be too costly to manufacture.

 

[Fake]

Which seems like bad news to me in that they'll probley only be in the 10 teraflops region because anything higher would just be too costly to manufacture.

They still can surprise us.

 

[_Starscream_]

Which seems like bad news to me in that they'll probley only be in the 10 teraflops region because anything higher would just be too costly to manufacture.

Wouldn't 10 TF RDNA be around RTX 2080 territory? That's sounds pretty good to me.

 

[bitbydeath]

Wouldn't 10 TF RDNA be around RTX 2080 territory? That's sounds pretty good to me.

2080Ti - 13.4TF
1080Ti - 11.3TF
2080 Super - 11.2TF
2080 - 10.1TF
2070 Super - 9TF
2070 - 7.5TF

 

[iamvin22]

Yep. See ya next year when the news shows up on the websites.

The port begging is so strong with you. You must really want to play Sony games.

 

[Mass Shift]

I guess this guy's agenda is to keep port begging for Sony exclusives to come on PC, there's no other plausible explanation... and mocking console users on top of that.

He doesn't care about buying a PS5 or Scarlett (which is basically the topic of this thread, aka next-gen discussion).

Every new generation brings them in like clockwork. And since I game on PC as well I've never fully understood the pettiness behind it. But then again some PC gamers war with each other like children over CPUs and graphic cards as well. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[ResilientBanana]

2080Ti - 13.4TF
1080Ti - 11.3TF
2080 Super - 11.2TF
2080 - 10.1TF
2070 Super - 9TF
2070 - 7.5TF

Aren't nVidia cards more efficient than AMD cards?

 

[Lone Wolf]

Every new generation brings them in like clockwork. And since I game on PC as well I've never fully understood the pettiness behind it. But then again some PC gamers war with each other like children over CPUs and graphic cards as well. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

And Steam and Epic. Nothing is safe from fanboy pettiness.

 

[Audiophile]

Trying to derive an idea of the upcoming generational leap from "what pc gpu will it be equal to?" doesn't really cut it.

What does a 1080ti get you in reality...? Current gen games with a higher resolution, higher framerate and some sliders turned up... Not very exciting at all. It's not to put the PC down, but that is the inherent nature of the platform when it comes to the market and development.

The leap is defined by the shift in the baseline.

The current baseline:
Low IPC Jaguar CPU w/ 8C/8T @ 1.6GHz
Early GCN GPU @ 1.2TFlop/s
8GB DDR3 @ 70GB/s + 32MB ESRAM @ 220GB/s
Bog-Standard 5400RPM HDD @ ~50MB/s, w/Poor Latency & Parallelism

If the fundamentals of your game can't run on that spec, it likely doesn't get made, or it is limited to a smaller market and budget/manpower is limited.

 

[CrustyBritches]

2080Ti - 13.4TF
1080Ti - 11.3TF
2080 Super - 11.2TF
2080 - 10.1TF
2070 Super - 9TF
2070 - 7.5TF

PowerColor 5700 XT Red Devil runs at 1989MHz avg frequency, so 10.1TF, and it's basically bang on for a stock 2070. A 2060 Super OC will give a 10TF Navi card a run for it's money.

 

[bitbydeath]

Aren't nVidia cards more efficient than AMD cards?

They were before RDNA, I’m not sure what the difference is now, if any.

 

[Negotiator]

Every new generation brings them in like clockwork. And since I game on PC as well I've never fully understood the pettiness behind it. But then again some PC gamers war with each other like children over CPUs and graphic cards as well. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

It's not PCs that's the culprit here. It's human elitism/arrogance from PCMR peeps that rubs people the wrong way.

In fact, I've been doing some research about building a new PC (not just for gaming), but that doesn't mean I won't buy a next-gen console.

 

[Negotiator]

They were before RDNA, I’m not sure what the difference is now, if any.

There is no difference in terms of rasterization efficiency:

AMD Radeon RX 5700 und RX 5700 XT im Test: Architektur-Vergleich, Preis-Leistung, Custom Designs (Update)

AMD Radeon RX 5700 (XT) im Test: Architektur-Vergleich, Preis-Leistung, Custom Designs (Update) / Navi vs. Vega vs. Turing vs. Pascal

www.computerbase.de

 

[StreetsofBeige]

But let's not forget about buying all this stuff in bulk. If I went to buy a PC with the above specs, it's clearly not happening for $500. Even if I buy 10,000 of each component, it's not happening. But what if I put in an order for 12 million of each and pay in advance? What sort of discount am I looking at? And is there a further discount on the next 10 million if I give you some cash for those too? And finally, what if I can do it for $600 but decide to take a loss of $100 on each sale?

Yup.

PCs will always cost more to build a similar spec system. And that doesn't even include a monitor or OS or gamepad/mouse. And PC part builders will always find the cheapest parts sold where you have to put it together yourself, while consoles are all pre-done.

And some reason PC builders will compare the cheapest PC part sellers and compare to a console's highest price, instead of console hardware deals too.

Whereas a console maker doesn't make much money selling the console (sometimes even a loss), and the retailer doesn't really make money either, PC parts are profiteering right from the get go.

Not only does the PC part maker want to make profit selling parts to stores, but the store also wants to jack up the price to make their cut too.

 

[DemonCleaner]

PowerColor 5700 XT Red Devil runs at 1989MHz avg frequency, so 10.1TF, and it's basically bang on for a stock 2070. A 2060 Super OC will give a 10TF Navi card a run for it's money.

the average clock is dependend on game and load (computerbase found that the red devils avg clock is more like 1900Mhz https://www.computerbase.de/2019-08/powercolor-radeon-rx-5700-xt-red-devil-test/). therefore it's much more sensible to calculate TFlops over the base clock. since the 5700xt AIB models run in all sorts of bottlenecks at higher clockspeeds, it's really better to compare reference specs of each architecture or compare load specific results and average the clock rate over the run for both cards to get a load specific TF number. otherwise it's apples and oranges.


nevertheless i don't understand your statement, since even your own quoted picture shows the 2060super to be 7% weaker than the AIB 5700xt. one of the best 5700XT partner cards is currently at $399 https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-radeon-rx-5700-xt-gv-r57xtgaming-oc-8gd/p/N82E16814932208. the red devil's price is heavily inflated. don't buy it. all good AIB cards are within 1-2% to eachother performance-wise.

 

[Mass Shift]

It's not PCs that's the culprit here. It's human elitism/arrogance from PCMR peeps that rubs people the wrong way.

In fact, I've been doing some research about building a new PC (not just for gaming), but that doesn't mean I won't buy a next-gen console.

PC Master race? Pfft! More like the PC Middle Class.

Let me tell you something about about the all mighty PCMR. Every time I build a new rig or upgrade I got people asking me for my cards and cpus, my old mobos, towers and psus etc. towers. And I gladly give it away knowing how expensive things can be and wished someone would have done the same for me in my lesser liquid days.

Despite the (projected) mythology, PC gamers aren't all rich and the vast majority aren't gaming on rigs with bleeding edge tech either. In fact most these days are on laptops, not even desktops. The ones that are on desktops keep it within very sensible budgets and not the full ham rigs you see a very select few showing off.

PC gaming hardware will always be better than the consoles, but that doesn't always mean PC gamers are using the latest and greatest. I don't care what people are claiming it or how much they're putting down the consoles.

 

[CrustyBritches]

DemonCleaner
Along with TPU and Guru3d, your article has plenty of data for ~10TF Navi performance, and it's still not equal to 2080 in overall relative performance.

 

[psorcerer]

DemonCleaner
Along with TPU and Guru3d, your article has plenty of data for ~10TF Navi performance, and it's still not equal to 2080 in overall relative performance.

Comparing the performance by using PC games has nothing to do with the real GPU abilities. Like literally nothing.

P.S. but if your intent is to play in PC games on the console then it's ok.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Comparing the performance by using PC games has nothing to do with the real GPU abilities. Like literally nothing.

I'm responding to Bitbydeath, concerning a PC-based topic.

 

[MadYarpen]

No. No one has any idea.

Ah shit, with Xbox they are more transparent I think, haven't they said all accessories would work?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Wait till 2020 when a lot of other announcements come crashing down since Team Guerrella and Team Kojima control Sony 1st party exclusives.. Death Stranding announcement on PC isn't a one-off.

The beuaty of these wishful thinking predictions is that no matter how untrue they are year after year, I can see one day in the future being the case... and people screaming "see, I was right!".
When the generations based console model is replaced by a better one then yep, we shall enjoy what comes next... not holding my breath though.

Since I do not see a better alternative (I learned that better is often "not for the consumer" like when HTML5 powered UI started making inroads on console and PC games and OS's alike... games as a service, fully streamed software and erosion of ownership, etc... you can really keep that and this self fulfilling manifest destiny prophetic spiel, no offense ) and I am fairly happy with BC enabled console generations with exclusive software I will keep supporting and defending the current evolutionary path.

Good thing we have options and you can connect your PC to your TV yesterday and leave the console peasants enjoying their little happy land .

 

[pawel86ck]

On resetera one familiar guy with Neo avatar has made interesting thread in regards to next gen consoles. According to him games like Star Wars Fallen Order, RDR2, Control, Gears 5 running on PC already looks like PS5 games will despite the fact these games arnt even build with SDD in mind. So guys there's no need to wait for next gen consoles in order to see how graphics fidelity will look like in the future, because you can just play these games on PC, at least that's what our expert say.

I'm not building rockets and I dont have friends in high places (however I believe god is my friend ). What's even more I barely speak english. However I can see this Neo Guy has clearly some agenda against consoles, so despite his work experience I just cant take his opinions seriously. So I still expect to be blown away like it was during PS3-PS4 transition era. If I compare uncharted 3 to 4 there's clear improvement in graphics fidelity, so I expect to see something similiar on PS5. I think if developers will aim at 1440-1800p 30fps, and use SDD and RT benefits to the fullest, then the gap between PS4-PS5 should be even bigger than PS3-PS4.

 

[Red_Driver85]

Kojima control Sony 1st party exclusives..

I just tried to find a logical explanation for this, figure it out and ... It's still nonsense. What could provoke such strange, meaningless fantasies? You're just a dreamer. How can the Kojima team relate to and control Sony's in-house studios? Moreover, Guerrilla Games also can not control the activities of other studios. It just doesn't make any sense. Hermann Hulst is the first person to whom they report on the results and the work done, which he, in turn, reports to his superiors. That's all.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Ah shit, with Xbox they are more transparent I think, haven't they said all accessories would work?

I want to say the current controllers will work. But I'm not sure about anything else.

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

Hot info straight from the Antifa hive mind forum.

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

So how can a console do 4k on a 5700XT when it struggles at the moment on a PC? I thought klee already stated that nextgen consoles are getting something beefier than a 5700XT.

www.resetera.com

 

[FranXico]

Hot info straight from the Antifa hive mind forum.

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

So how can a console do 4k on a 5700XT when it struggles at the moment on a PC? I thought klee already stated that nextgen consoles are getting something beefier than a 5700XT.

www.resetera.com

Sounds more like educated guesses and speculation than actual insider info.

Is that guy a dev? Has he been checked?

 

[Kazekage1981]

On that forum link, it is speculated that based on what they have now, PS5 has a little more TFLOPS and runs games better. I think the gap of the finalized development kits and specs between the consoles when it comes to launch will be pretty narrow or almost nothing. The difference will most likely be on how each console implements things based on hardware layout and software implementation (such as ray tracing).

 

[Aceofspades]

Hot info straight from the Antifa hive mind forum.

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

So how can a console do 4k on a 5700XT when it struggles at the moment on a PC? I thought klee already stated that nextgen consoles are getting something beefier than a 5700XT.

www.resetera.com

Dejavu I swear, we are basically at and Im paraphrasing "MS invented DitectX ... we cannot allow Sony to have 30% power advantage " nonsense by Mr.Penello last gen

 

[Mass Shift]

Dejavu I swear, we are basically at and Im paraphrasing "MS invented DitectX ... we cannot allow Sony to have 30% power advantage " nonsense by Mr.Penello last gen

Oh man, I remember that bit of foolishness. And in the end Penello was concerned about performance that never became a factor for gamers when deciding whether to purchase an Xbox One or not.

If he had said, "We cannot continue to allow Sony to have an advantage over us in first party exclusives" he might have been taken more seriously.

 

[llien]

Aren't nVidia cards more efficient less performant at compute tasks than AMD cards?

FTFY

 

[demigod]

On resetera one familiar guy with Neo avatar has made interesting thread in regards to next gen consoles. According to him games like Star Wars Fallen Order, RDR2, Control, Gears 5 running on PC already looks like PS5 games will despite the fact these games arnt even build with SDD in mind. So guys there's no need to wait for next gen consoles in order to see how graphics fidelity will look like in the future, because you can just play these games on PC, at least that's what our expert say.

I'm not building rockets and I dont have friends in high places (however I believe god is my friend ). What's even more I barely speak english. However I can see this Neo Guy has clearly some agenda against consoles, so despite his work experience I just cant take his opinions seriously. So I still expect to be blown away like it was during PS3-PS4 transition era. If I compare uncharted 3 to 4 there's clear improvement in graphics fidelity, so I expect to see something similiar on PS5. I think if developers will aim at 1440-1800p 30fps, and use SDD and RT benefits to the fullest, then the gap between PS4-PS5 should be even bigger than PS3-PS4.

I’m pretty sure they all have him on ignore, nobody seems to respond to his posts because it’s ridiculous.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Sounds more like educated guesses and speculation than actual insider info.

Is that guy a dev? Has he been checked?

He has been checked and is someone with inside info.

 

[ResilientBanana]

FTFY

Ok, well regardless, benchmarks don't lie.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Hot info straight from the Antifa hive mind forum.

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

So how can a console do 4k on a 5700XT when it struggles at the moment on a PC? I thought klee already stated that nextgen consoles are getting something beefier than a 5700XT.

www.resetera.com

Can someone post what was said?

 

[DiddyInAHellcat]

Can someone post what was said?

Right now, game performance is better on PS5. I believe that is probably because PS5 development hardware and software are in a more advanced state. I fully expect Scarlett to close that gap once they ship more mature dev kits and software.

Also

It must be said, since software, not hardware, is a traditional Microsoft area of expertise, it's very possible that they could ultimately deliver more advanced DirecX development software in the end allowing games to run better on Scarlett even if the hardware is less capable.

I don't know this to be the case, but the possibility can't be discounted.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Right now, game performance is better on PS5. I believe that is probably because PS5 development hardware and software are in a more advanced state. I fully expect Scarlett to close that gap once they ship more mature dev kits and software.

Also

It must be said, since software, not hardware, is a traditional Microsoft area of expertise, it's very possible that they could ultimately deliver more advanced DirecX development software in the end allowing games to run better on Scarlett even if the hardware is less capable.

I don't know this to be the case, but the possibility can't be discounted.

Is this the DX12 thing all over again (that did nothing of the sort this gen)? Reads that way.

 

[Fake]

Is this the DX12 thing all over again?

Indeed is unfortunately.

 

[llien]

benchmarks don't lie.

Indeed. That's why NV cards were so much less popular among miners.

 

[FranXico]

Is this the DX12 thing all over again (that did nothing of the sort this gen)? Reads that way.

One toolchain is more mature than the other, so maybe when both are mature they will have equal performance.

More like: "PS5 performs better right now, but don't read too much into it".

 

[DeepEnigma]

One toolchain is more mature than the other, so maybe when both are mature they will have equal performance.

More like: "PS5 performs better right now, but don't read too much into it".

...even if the hardware is less capable.

 

[Imtjnotu]

...even if the hardware is less capable.

Selective reading