Support NeoGAF

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Is Switch coming with a revision/new model for 2021? I guess he'll catgh up in his own form.

If Nintendo don't want to lose third parties, it will need a new model sometime in 2021. There is no way in hell next gen games will work on that thing. Unless third parties do not accept to support One also, in that case...
fuck.

 

[M-V2]

Nice!

 

[TheStruggler]

Is Switch coming with a revision/new model for 2021? I guess he'll catgh up in his own form.

Hes talking about how xbox has the upper hand which is power and again the whole power narrative is irrelevent because ps4 and xbox have the uppwr hand in power generally and switch outsells them both. If sony has price and is out a little before what do you think will happen?

 

[Fake]

If Nintendo don't want to lose third parties, it will need a new model sometime in 2021. There is no way in hell next gen games will work on that thing. Unless third parties do not accept to support One also, in that case...
fuck.

To be honest, I expecting a Nintendo Switch model just full capable of doing 1080p like PS4. Maybe 2021 Nintendo could announce that if Nvidia stop being greedy and offer a better tech with low price.

Hes talking about how xbox has the upper hand which is power and again the whole power narrative is irrelevent because ps4 and xbox have the uppwr hand in power generally and switch outsells them both. If sony has price and is out a little before what do you think will happen?

Dunno. People are mistaking the sucess of the PS4 because he is more powerful than Xbox One rather than price/software/OS, but Xbox One X is more powerful than PS4 PRO...
I'll ask about those console war gentlemen.

 

[01011001]

It is impressive looking and a major win immediately for a large number of gamers that are into Minecrafter like enhancing Fornite or CoD with 3D audio could be big for Playstation.

I’m not sure, but I’m under the impression it was 1080p30 or 60 they showed on XsX, and so assuming 10 rays per pixel for Full RT(including reflections and AA) at 60fps that gives:

1920x1080x60x10 = 1.244GigaRays/s

Or

0.622 GigaRays/s for 30 fps

By RTX current standards that wouldn’t really cut it for a whole generation of RT games IMHO unless targetting 1080p30 with a mid-gen refresh for 4k30.,

I’m still hoping for 5GigaRays/s from each of the consoles, or 2-3 GR/s minimum, but controlled by more flexible RT compute to get a higher effective number through efficiency/intelligence to exceed the 8-ish GigaRays/s touted by some RTX cards ... I know preparing for disappointment.

the demo was apparently running unlocked at 1080p but didn't hold a steady 60fps.
also, how can you calculate how many "gigarays" the GPU has? not sure if it is common knowledge how even Nvidia really calculates them, and I'm doubly not sure if you can judge how many a GPU has just by gameplay.

and the same RT performance from both is not in the cards since the RT hardware is built into each CU and isn't separate hardware.

it would be easier to judge the theoretical performance if we had performance metrics from the SX version and the PC version running on an RTX card.
1080p and between 30 and 60 fps is alright when you look how taxing Quake 2 RTX is which is very comparable. that game runs at 1440p at around 40fps on an RTX 2080ti
so 1080p with similar framerates on Minecraft with full pathtracing seems to be pretty damn good in comparison

 

[TheStruggler]

To be honest, I expecting a Nintendo Switch model just full capable of doing 1080p like PS4. Maybe 2021 Nintendo could announce that if Nvidia stop being greedy and offer a better tech with low price.


Dunno. People are mistaking the sucess of the PS4 because he is more powerful than Xbox One rather than price/software/OS, but Xbox One X is more powerful than PS4 PRO...
I'll ask about those console war gentlemen.

I have no idea which way your arguinf anymore, im saying power is irrilevent, hi im The Struggler how are you?

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

To be honest, I expecting a Nintendo Switch model just full capable of doing 1080p like PS4. Maybe 2021 Nintendo could announce that if Nvidia stop being greedy and offer a better tech with low price.


Dunno. People are mistaking the sucess of the PS4 because he is more powerful than Xbox One rather than price/software/OS, but Xbox One X is more powerful than PS4 PRO...
I'll ask about those console war gentlemen.

Power was never a thing. Timing, price, games... PS1 had worst loking games than the N64 due to the lack of some features, but we know how it went. "299" and fuck them all, that's how it went.
BTW if they can reach around 1-2 TFs for an handled where you don't need particular texture details or super effects due to the little screen, you could do plenty in other areas I think. If they can put there even a low level SSD like 1 GB/s I guess maybe it's possible to scale down some shit, at the end of the day Switch versions of third parties are other games entirely handled by other teams, recent example is Doom Eternal, so it would be nothing new to had to tailor the games specifically for that console, but it needs to be reasonable.

 

[Fake]

I have no idea which way your arguinf anymore, im saying power is irrilevent, hi im The Struggler how are you?

Not arguing. Just pointing price and software matter more. Nintendo Switch is the prove everyone need.

Power was never a thing. Timing, price, games... PS1 had worst loking games than the N64 due to the lack of some features, but we know how it went. "299" and fuck them all, that's how it went.
BTW if they can reach around 1-2 TFs for an handled where you don't need particular texture details or super effects due to the little screen, you could do plenty in other areas I think. If they can put there even a low level SSD like 1 GB/s I guess maybe it's possible to scale down some shit, at the end of the day Switch versions of third parties are other games entirely handled by other teams, recent example is Doom Eternal, so it would be nothing new to had to tailor the games specifically for that console, but it needs to be reasonable.

I know. What I curious if Nintendo will follow Sony and Microsoft too and build a custom SSD for Nintendo Switch. Who knows...

 

[PaintTinJr]

it was ms in their reveal of xbsex talked about input lag reduction, they will also offer enhanced sound and potentially better FPS across multi platforms so seems that they are more focused on competitive gamers than Sony

That is an interesting point you bring up as I was looking at polling rates of controllers and naturally the more you poll a controller for its input the lower the latency, but it also stresses CPU memory more. The asymmetric memory setup the XsX has for the 6GB and 10GB spliting between 192bit and 320bit is going to make lowering latency harder to achieve by the devs if they want to maximize the 10GB bandwidth oportunities. With the console buses being half-duplex the problem of waste would imply it is going to be double to account for the sending/receive to the 6GB. from polling a controller more. Whether the non-regular 2^n sizes (192 & 320) will further result in tiny wastes of bandwidth per transfer (compared to a regular middle-bandwidth 256bit setup) seems like something else to consider, especially as texture maps will be powers of two. so packing transfers tightly without wastage will be more complicated for 320bits - even if complete mipmaps are 1.333 times the top texture size, 3 sets produce an even 4 lots of power two storage.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Not arguing. Just pointing price and software matter more. Nintendo Switch is the prove everyone need.


I know. What I curious if Nintendo will follow Sony and Microsoft too and build a custom SSD for Nintendo Switch. Who knows...

But at the end of the day they don't give a fuck, they races alone, they produce console since the 80s and one more time they found a way to escape comparisons and sell a load of hardware and software. They are ahead in being behind.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Xbox One didn't have the upper hand that XSX has at the moment... It's a different situation.

Also lol at everyone commenting negatively at Dynamic Voltage Games, but don't have any problem with quoting Naughty Dog tweets that keep saying how fantastic the PS5 is supposed to be... The irony.

Did Naughty Dog devs acted like this dev? Did they talked against XSX? They didn't, Xbox fan. Stop defending the OBVIOUS crap spewed from Dynamic Voltage devs mouth.

 

[TheStruggler]

Not arguing. Just pointing price and software matter more. Nintendo Switch is the prove everyone need.


I know. What I curious if Nintendo will follow Sony and Microsoft too and build a custom SSD for Nintendo Switch. Who knows...

Im stating the same thing you are...

 

[Fake]

Im stating the same thing you are...

If so I apology. English is not my strong.

 

[01011001]

Did Naughty Dog devs acted like this dev? Did they talked against XSX? They didn't, Xbox fan. Stop defending the OBVIOUS crap spewed from devs mouth from Dynamic Voltage.

I agree, that dude seems like a complete fanboy or he at least tries to look like one, seems to me that he tries to lure in customers through his fanboy comments, so that Xbox fanboys look at that and maybe buy one of his games.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Xbox One didn't have the upper hand that XSX has at the moment... It's a different situation.

Also lol at everyone commenting negatively at Dynamic Voltage Games, but don't have any problem with quoting Naughty Dog tweets that keep saying how fantastic the PS5 is supposed to be... The irony.

Yeah so much irony what upper hand is this? Xbox 360 had an upper hand in online, multiplats, a line up at tht time ppl viewed as strong, was hundreds less and thy didn't have their online go down for months yet we know what happened, yup you guessed it. Ps3 once it was released started outselling Xbox 360 almost every single month worldwide. But difference is this time Xbox won't have a year head start

The shit some of you ppl talk has already been disproven in history. The shit some of you ppl talk for fanboy points is vomit inducing.

 

[quest]

Hes talking about how xbox has the upper hand which is power and again the whole power narrative is irrelevent because ps4 and xbox have the uppwr hand in power generally and switch outsells them both. If sony has price and is out a little before what do you think will happen?

Different market its apples and pairs the switch no matter the mental gymnastics is a hand held. It's like comparing a kia stinger and a harley Davidson two different markets.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Yeah so much irony what upper hand is this? Xbox 360 had an upper hand in online, multiplats, a line up at tht time ppl viewed as strong, was hundreds less and thy didn't have their online go down for months yet we know what happened, yup you guessed it. Ps3 once it was released started outselling Xbox 360 almost every single month worldwide. But difference is this time Xbox won't have a year head start

The shit sone of you ppl talk has akready been disproven in history. The shit some if you ppl talk for fanboy points is vomit inducing.

Have you seen the XSX lineup? 16 Studios should give you a hell of a lineup not to mention Gamepass is amazing.

on the other side of the coin no one has any idea of the Sony lineup.

Either way, we’re in for a treat.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

When do you all think Sony will reveal the PS5's design and demonstrate a teardown of it? I'm eager to see the actual machine.

 

[PaintTinJr]

the demo was apparently running unlocked at 1080p but didn't hold a steady 60fps.
also, how can you calculate how many "gigarays" the GPU has? not sure if it is common knowledge how even Nvidia really calculates them, and I'm doubly not sure if you can judge how many a GPU has just by gameplay.

and the same RT performance from both is not in the cards since the RT hardware is built into each CU and isn't separate hardware.

it would be easier to judge the theoretical performance if we had performance metrics from the SX version and the PC version running on an RTX card.
1080p and between 30 and 60 fps is alright when you look how taxing Quake 2 RTX is which is very comparable. that game runs at 1440p at around 40fps on an RTX 2080ti
so 1080p with similar framerates on Minecraft with full pathtracing seems to be pretty damn good in comparison

I didn’t think I did calculate it. I thought I was making an educated calculation of how much workload the game was presenting to the XsX hardware – and deducing that the XsX probably is RT bound by its intersection testing based on your comment that it was unlocked frame-rate which seemingly implies the XsX and PS5 are not going to reach 4k30 RT easily or at all.

It will be interesting to see if the games industry and graphics card companies declare Full RT to be a valid description even if the scene is rasterized for the first path.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Have you seen the XSX lineup? 16 Studios should give you a hell of a lineup not to mention Gamepass is amazing.

on the other side of the coin no one has any idea of the Sony lineup.

Either way, we’re in for a treat.

Gamepass worries me. Right now it seems sustanable because Xbox One simply do not share a big cut of the cake, what if SeX goes 50/50 with Sony in installed base? Those AAA games would accept to be D1 there for pennies for 80 milions players?
Also, I don't know, this Gamepass thing sounds a bit suicidal to me, MS needed it because it's leterally the only weapon against Sony and clearly for now it didn't work out that well. Now MS has a reason to put Gears and Halo Infinite there at D1, but again: what if MS has more success? No more need for suicidal moves. When Gears starts to get microtransactions in multiplayer (and the community didn't took that well) maybe something is wrong, maybe you can't sell big budget titles for 2 bucks. Surprise.
Just look at Sony, they could do the same, yet they said: no, fuck y'all, no exclusives at D1 on PS Now. Why do it? It's better to sell them at full price, it's clear.
Gamepass is VERY good for little/medium titles who never got much attention, they go in and gets exposed in a much littler and more convenient library to which every Xbox user pay attention to, it's great. But I don't think that a part of its greatness will be sustained regardless of everything.

 

[ethomaz]

Did he ever played Killzone Shadow Fall? Because if Sony could reach that with HDD imagine with SSD.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Did he ever played Killzone Shadow Fall? Because if Sony could reach that with HDD imagine with SSD.

What's special about Killzone compared to others Sony first parties?

 

[ethomaz]

The new naughty dog ?

You know the most funny if he can’t put his full game on memory (that means no loading time) then he is doing something wrong.

 

[Metroiddarks]

Have you seen the XSX lineup? 16 Studios should give you a hell of a lineup not to mention Gamepass is amazing.

on the other side of the coin no one has any idea of the Sony lineup.

Either way, we’re in for a treat.

But doesn't work like that way, yes I great finally you xbox have studios but now comes the hard part make games, all
publishers of games knows that, have 16 studios doesn't means have 16 good or great games, just see what happens
in Nintendo, and Play they have also studios which fail doing that side I almost sure more than one studio will end
closed before the next gen ends.


The gamepass is great if they still be worth the third parties to be part and if they can maintain the low price enough
time that price is not realistic just see how much cost services like Netflix which use serves less powerful and an game
can easily be more expensive than most of the series or even movies.

In my opinion I still prefer pay my games in Xbox because this means more money go for the studio and I can play
it even after they remove it from gamepass .... curious thing is they say when a game enter but when a game left their
service is like a secret which only found until you open the service.

Gamepass paid depending on how much time the user play your game and that kind rules doesn't work good for all studios. But that is a thing only the time will let us see.

 

[ethomaz]

What's special about Killzone compared to others Sony first parties?

Nothing special but it just a launch PS4 games with little to no load time.
It boots and you are playing in less than 10s too.

It was already the vision of Cerny to no more load times.

That vision spread to other games after like Uncharted 4 if you watch the cutscenes you have no load time... it is a trick tentar I hope PS5 won’t need to use but it works.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Nothing special but it just a launch PS4 games with little to no load time.
It boots and you are playing in less than 10s too.

It was already the vision of Cerny to no more load times.

I didn't recall that, even if I played the game. Well, it was seven years ago lol
That game was unfinished, such a shame.

 

[ethomaz]

I didn't recall that, even if I played the game. Well, it was seven years ago lol
That game was unfinished, such a shame.

I liked the campaign but it was inferior to 2 and 3.
The MP for me was unplayable... too blurry.
That from somebody that loved the MP in 2 and 3.

It was a launch game... compared with other games launched in Nov 2013 it was the one that I more enjoyed together with Resogun.

 

[01011001]

I didn’t think I did calculate it. I thought I was making an educated calculation of how much workload the game was presenting to the XsX hardware – and deducing that the XsX probably is RT bound by its intersection testing based on your comment that it was unlocked frame-rate which seemingly implies the XsX and PS5 are not going to reach 4k30 RT easily or at all.

It will be interesting to see if the games industry and graphics card companies declare Full RT to be a valid description even if the scene is rasterized for the first path.

well a 100% path traced game like Quake 2 RTX or Minecraft RT are absolute extreme edge cases.
look at the performance difference between Quake 2 RTX and Control with all RTX settings turned on, Control performs easily twice as well even tho it is littered with RT effects.

and performance will increase as devs get more comfortable with Raytracing in general. the jump in performance Battlefield 5 had from it's very first version to now is pretty big for example.
and you can run Control at 1080p30 on a GTX1070ti with medium Raytracing settings, yes a 1070ti, that's not a typo. That's basically console performance with added Raytracing on a non-Raytracing GPU.

full pathtracing like in Minecraft and Quake 2 RTX is a waste of resources and only really an interesting tech showcase demo.

 

[Deto]

Looks like an xbox fanboy "but but but gamepass"

And he is the developer of the game "4k 120fps" ... SSD 2x faster doesn't matter, but 120fps that only exists on TV with HDMI 2.1 is important.

 

[ethomaz]

What that even means?
Buying games makes Xbox cheaper???
How do I buy 1.5 games?

I defended this dude yesterday but now I think he is a joke lol

 

[Metroiddarks]

What's special about Killzone compared to others Sony first parties?

Was created as a Halo killer, failed in that but still a decent game with gorgeous graphics, even use a very basic technology for make reflections using rays.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Looks like an xbox fanboy "but but but gamepass"

And he is the developer of the game "4k 120fps" ... SSD 2x faster doesn't matter, but 120fps that only exists on TV with HDMI 2.1 is important.

Jesus, is this guy following Timdog and Misterxmedia? He's the most biased dev I've ever seen.

 

[Metroiddarks]

What that even means?
Buying games makes Xbox cheaper???
How do I buy 1.5 games?

Is just the average but 1.5 is so low I remember even the Wii which had a similar problem was a little higher, that guy is like we say un lamebotas.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Was created as a Halo killer, failed in that but still a decent game with gorgeous graphics, even use a very basic technology for make reflections using rays.

I was asking about Shadow Fall specifically, but thanks.
I played all the Killzone, including this one.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Looks like an xbox fanboy "but but but gamepass"

And he is the developer of the game "4k 120fps" ... SSD 2x faster doesn't matter, but 120fps that only exists on TV with HDMI 2.1 is important.

"Gamepass is great dude, too bad if Sony and Nintendo did the same we wouldn't play shit because it's likely not sustanable. Wait, if you don't play games at all it's cheaper, it's even greater!"

 

[Hawking Radiation]

What that even means?
Buying games makes Xbox cheaper???
How do I buy 1.5 games?

I defended this dude yesterday but now I think he is a joke lol

Buy 2 games.
Snap 2nd disc in half
Return 1 half of the disc and keep the other
= 1.5 games

 

[ethomaz]

Is just the average but 1.5 is so low I remember even the Wii which had a similar problem was a little higher, that guy is like we say un lamebotas.

Yeap but how something I can’t buy (1.5 games) can make my purchase cheap.

You can’t use average when you are making a point for a single hardware sales lol

Anyway move on it is not interesting to try to understand him

 

[PaintTinJr]

well a 100% path traced game like Quake 2 RTX or Minecraft RT are absolute extreme edge cases.
look at the performance difference between Quake 2 RTX and Control with all RTX settings turned on, Control performs easily twice as well even tho it is littered with RT effects.

and performance will increase as devs get more comfortable with Raytracing in general. the jump in performance Battlefield 5 had from it's very first version to now is pretty big for example.
and you can run Control at 1080p30 on a GTX1070ti with medium Raytracing settings, yes a 1070ti, that's not a typo. That's basically console performance with added Raytracing on a non-Raytracing GPU.

full pathtracing like in Minecraft and Quake 2 RTX is a waste of resources and only really an interesting tech showcase demo.

I completely disagree about the resource waste, because to suggest faux-RT is good enough means you aren't looking beyond all the baggage of rasterization and coming at the problem of game visuals with a clean slate. Rendering caveats will always be present unless we ditch rasterization completely IMHO. The real benefit of RT is that it saves on human endeavor to test the visuals as hard, because RT calculations are a simulation that operate deterministically. Full RT also makes teaching computer graphics far simplier. A simple and elegant intersection concept that is recursively used in a highly compute intensive way.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

I liked the campaign but it was inferior to 2 and 3.
The MP for me was unplayable... too blurry.
That from somebody that loved the MP in 2 and 3.

It was a launch game... compared with other games launched in Nov 2013 it was the one that I more enjoyed together with Resogun.

They tried some new shit but the mission design was just bland. If they had more time it would probably have been the best Killzone.
2 it's still the one I prefer, 3 has its merits but it's too fast and colorfull for what I think Killzone should do.

 

[Deto]

Is just the average but 1.5 is so low I remember even the Wii which had a similar problem was a little higher, that guy is like we say un lamebotas.

What that even means?
Buying games makes Xbox cheaper???
How do I buy 1.5 games?

I defended this dude yesterday but now I think he is a joke lol

Jesus, is this guy following Timdog and Misterxmedia? He's the most biased dev I've ever seen.

It assumes that gamepass is free.

1 mont 9,99 x 12 = 120 USD year.

só.... With a year of gamepass you buy two games at full price, and do not rent a game that you do not choose for an unknown period of time.

 

[ethomaz]

I just realized nobody create the reviews thread for the last MS’s bomba.

 

[Infinite_Trajektory]

But 6Tf is better than 4.2Tf

same thing for, Ace Combat, Call of Duty (MW / BO4), RE2 is more sharpen on Pro and run very well performance, KH3 have 1080p mode for better performance.
Many games have this issue. Maybe Microsoft want the best resolution dispite performance.

Or maybe those titles weren't exactly optimized ? Possible right? Objective gaming speaking.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

It assumes that gamepass is free.

1 mont 9,99 x 12 = 120 USD year.

só.... With a year of gamepass you buy two games at full price, and do not rent a game that you do not choose for an unknown period of time.

He ignores there is PS Now, Amazon and deals.
I'm playing since two months for 10 bucks a month. I never spend more than 20/30 for every game, anyway.
But Gamepass is a fantastic deal, I will not deny that.

 

[Metroiddarks]

It assumes that gamepass is free.

1 mont 9,99 x 12 = 120 USD year.

só.... With a year of gamepass you buy two games at full price, and do not rent a game that you do not choose for an unknown period of time.

Yeah is a way to see it also well any no first party game has the guaranteed to be there more than one month, that service will be part of the ecosystem
until happens the same than with the Tv and movies each company will have the itself service so in this way they will receive all your money.

 

[Gamernyc78]

And if playstation comes out sooner and cheaper than the xbox who do you think will see more sales....?
This whole power narrative is irrelevent because
1. The xbox one x did shit all
2. The Switch which is the weakest console is bodying the ps4 and xbox

Bodying? Launch aligned ps4 is still king, switch is selling more now bcus it's end of cycle for PS4. From the last stats switch wasnt really outpacing ps4 in same time period it was close with ps4 with the edge.

 

[Metroiddarks]

When a person says the exclusives doesn't sell consoles:

I am sure the people buy Switch for its great services lol

 

[Smoke6]

Umm cerny said himself that there would still be load times as they were basically non existent and didn’t want that!

 

[Neo Blaster]

Umm cerny said himself that there would still be load times as they were basically non existent and didn’t want that!

Nope, he said that fast travel was so seamless that they had to delay it a little bit.

 

[Lort]

XSX SSD can't be better because it has speed limits which are well known.

I agree?

My point was the PS5 cant be faster in every other respect ..

 

[SonGoku]

If they can put there even a low level SSD like 1 GB/s I guess maybe it's possible to scale down some shit

I know. What I curious if Nintendo will follow Sony and Microsoft too and build a custom SSD for Nintendo Switch. Who knows...

Can a 1GB/s+ SSD even run on mobile battery?