sighs...I've asked this question many times and never got a straight answer...what data or tangible evidence does anyone have that supports the notion that the PS5 GPU specs is "only" a RTX 2070-2070S Super. I thought I (and several others) debunked this a while ago but do people really still think the PS5 GPU is only a RTX 2070(S) level? If you understand hardware at all and have seen the specs of the PS5, that's absurd!
Ok one more time...
Consider the following:
Currently, an RX 5700XT is about
on par with a RTX 2070 and about
5% slower than an RTX 2070 Super on average (across nearly 50 recent games). So to say that the PS5 is roughly a 2070 - 2070 Super is essentially saying that the PS5 has the same performance as an RX 5700 XT. This is way off for several reasons:
- IF you assumed that the PS5 GPU was in fact the same architecture as the RX 5700 XT (RDNA1) and forget about any differences that the console optimizations and RDNA2+ may have, then you still have a raw compute advantage of ~13% in favor of the PS5 (10.23 TF vs 9 TF for the average clock speed or the "game clock" as AMD calls it. Peak clock speed for the RX 5700 XT is a bad metric since it spends very little time at that frequency)
- So what level of actual performance (not theoretical specs) in real games would a 13% boost over the RX 5700 XT give you? How about an RTX 2080 (2080 is +12% over RX 5700 XT at 4K across same 50 games)
- So as a minimum baseline, the GPU in the PS5 is much closer to an RTX 2080 just based on the raw compute and disregarding addditional optimizations and efficiencies
- But wait....we can't just forgo those efficiency improvements as they are there and will make a difference. PS5 GPU is not the same RDNA1 GPU as the RX 5700 XT but it's RDNA2 based. We don't know exactly how much more effecient RDNA2 will be yet, but we do know for sure that it WILL BE MORE Efficient (in other words it won't have the same IPC as RDNA 1).
- AMD was able to jump +25% going from GCN to RDNA1 (significant) and has suggested we could expect a similar bump in IPC going from RDNA1 to RDNA2. I think that is a bit overzealous so I will be much more conservative. Typical generation shifts in GPU architecture may give at least 10-15% IPC improvements in the past so that's probably a better (if not conservative) estimate
- So let's be very conservative and assume it's only 10% IPC improvement. So add an additional 10% of performance to that RX 5700 XT figure above: 13% raw compute + 10% IPC = ~23% higher perf for PS5
- Ok, so again let's be conservative right. Let's lower that even further by an additional 5% because AMD may have messed up with RDNA efficiency or because PS5 memory bandwidth is a larger bottleneck than we thought, or the PS5 clock speed average is lower than Sony led on etc etc. Let's just say the combined raw compute advantage and IPC advantage is only %18
- What will 18% more real world perf give you over the 5700 XT? How about an RTX 2080 Super!!
Again, that estimate is
extremely conservative and it's very possible that the PS5 GPU is well beyond that when you factor in a more reasonable IPC improvement and all of the PS5 specific optimizations (vs PC), lower overhead OS and drivers, closer to metal APIs etc. My point here is that even if you look at it from the most conservative lens, there is NO way that the PS5 GPU specs point to a GPU that is a RTX 2070 or even 2070 Super! At the very least, it is closest to an RTX 2080 but it is much more likely to meet or exceed an RTX 2080 Super. I've done detailed analysis using at least 5 different methodologies and looking at real world game performance on PC equivalent hardware and each one yielded the same result: PS5 GPU should be on par or slightly above an RTX 2080 Super!
Now I am not throwing any specific performance numbers out there and saying that this will be the PS5 performance. That's silly as there is still so much unknown at the system level. Again, I'm just pointing out that there is no reasonable way to interpret the specs and conclude that the PS5 GPU is "only" an RTX 2070/Super/RX 5700 XT. Everything we know points to it clearly being way above that.
Can we (finally) at least agree on this much?! If not, I'm still waiting to see/hear some actually tangible data that supports the notion that it is only a RTX 2070/Super...
Yes but not, maybe I don't explain as I want.
I say is between 2070 and 2070 super because that is the same DF say time ago (not because I don't like in general what Alex do means I don't think they have real connections)
I also think is more than that but I cannot guess without have any evidence.
I tried to make opinions not based in extrapolate things because is too easy to get wrong and was pointing a scenario where PS5 basically doesn't have any special thing,
then use that as argument because when your are in debate one the best ways to denying another person's argument is using a scenario where things go wrong and still
showing that even in that scenario the other person's is wrong.
Regarding your points:
1)We suppose RDNA 2 will have an improvement in IPC but how nobody really knows how much, the optimizations will occurs yes will do but again you need to extrapolate
things to say a quantity about how much will improve, guess as base for an argument is fail in the fallacy of ad ignorantiam, yes I agree with you but I cannot use as fallacy
my argument.
2) There is not a point to throwing numbers especially as you say in console where exists low level optimizations and in a early phase of dev is just pointless.
3)Agree but I don't have real proves the same thing until AMD doesn't reveal more info of RDNA 2 I just cannot.
4)You basically repeat this point
5)I want the jump in IPC of RDNA 2 be big because:
a)Nvidia needs competition
b) I love the console hardware.
But AMD usually tends to oversell expectatives then come back with something not so good, so let's wait and see.
6) 10% is not be conservative and again you are guessing a lot
7) You cannot say a number of possible in an argument where you talk about a possible bottleneck, is just too complex to reduce it in that way, you should has
access to a dev kit and break your NDA to say a number
8) Even when I think PS5 is more capable in the real world than a 2070 super that doesn't mean I will say a comparable GPU which I think is equiparble based in
huge amount extrapolations, I am not moore's law is dead.
And yes you throw many specific numbers to get to the point where a PS5 is a 2080 super. I can agree the real performance of PS5 is closer to a 2080 to a 2070
but I don't want to make mental gymnastics to end saying a fallacy, so basically I agree with you my 2070 is too conservative but I prefer say that than do the same
as you.
Sorry for the wall of text.
www.resetera.com
