Next Xbox is ‘More Advanced’ Than the PS5 according to Insiders.

Marlenus

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in all seriousness what can 13 tflops accomplish that lets say 10 can't on a 4k tv. seems kinda overkill.

also 8 cores at 3.2 ghz sounds extremely hot.
The 8c ES at computex was faster than a 9900k and would have a 65W tdp. Considering that would probably have a clockspeed north of 4GHz (otherwise the IPC gain for zen2 would be humongous) it means I expect an 8c zen2 package at 3.2Ghz is probably 20W tdp max, maybe even 15W.
 

TeamGhobad

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The 8c ES at computex was faster than a 9900k and would have a 65W tdp. Considering that would probably have a clockspeed north of 4GHz (otherwise the IPC gain for zen2 would be humongous) it means I expect an 8c zen2 package at 3.2Ghz is probably 20W tdp max, maybe even 15W.
so these 8 cores running at 3.2 ghz is how many times faster than our jaguar cores?
 

TeamGhobad

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Last I heard, 2-3x possibly a hair more. Also depends if they are going to be threaded or not either.
2-3x? thats it? they said jaguar is quarter of bulldozer and zen is 40% faster than bulldozer and zen 2 is 15% faster than zen. thats about 6.5x the speed at the same clocks. double the clocks and you roughly have 13x the power. that is if the info is correct.
 
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DeepEnigma

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2-3x? thats it? they said jaguar is quarter of bulldozer and zen is 40% faster than bulldozer and zen 2 is 15% faster than zen. thats about 6.5x the speed at the same clocks. double the clocks and you roughly have 13x the power. that is if the info is correct.
Idk, maybe it’s all the confusion of efficiency then.
 

DemonCleaner

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If that was the case a 750Ti wouldn't be trading blows with PS4 in DF comparisons
I agree that you can use the hardware more effectively on a closed box setup (even more so exclusives) but i dont think its that simple, Nvidia SM design is more complex, independent and efficient thats why they invest more die space per core which in turn translates to lower TF number but better performance and apparently AMD is going in that direction as well.
So why sticking navi in there, just use a an older architecture if this doesnt matter in consoles.
Amd could have just used ps4 gpu again at higher TF count. Even a 20yr old architecture would suffice then. Gpu devs must be stupid coming with complete new architectures.

9tf turing outperforming much higher pascal.
oh come on guys, don't put words in my mouth i didn't say. i didn't say that it wouldn't matter in console space, i said it does matter to a smaller degree. neither did i say that the idling CUs is the only reason for the perfermance / Tflops discrepancies between amd und nvidia. it's complicated and there are a lot of different factors from color compression to geometry culling. but i think the idling shaders typically contributes at least half to 2/3rd.

@SonGoku if you actually read that pcgamesn article that you link so actively these days carefully, you will see that it say's exactly what i told above:

This may not necessarily allow AMD to add more stream processors or ‘cores’ into its GPU designs, but it will mean that each one is far more capable than the last gen. Essentially this should mean that, with the new cores less likely to be sat idle waiting for shared resources to become available, the next-gen GPU will be able to carry out more parallel processing tasks – more compute tasks – per clock cycle.
nvidias longer rendering pipeline is what made the software scheduler and the comparable higher clock speeds on the same node feasible in the first place.

and calling that subject "simple" couldn't be further from the truth. the decission sticking to the hardware scheduler and that particular rendering pipeline was made nearly a decade ago because amd bet on a multipurpose GPU design which would not only fit the needs of gaming but the other emerging compute markets. they pretty much HAD TO stick with it till now. nowerdays i would say that kicked them in the butt. it pretty much looks like (or at least i hope so) gaming and compute will diverge the coming generations now that AMD has the money again to develop two different architectures in parallel.
 

Freeman454

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That's because out of all the insiders who claim to have info, there is either only one or none who has it right. The rest are pretenders.
Or its a chain reaction, those 'leakers' follow these forums/other leaks and build upon them to be more believable. Their probably following topics on neogaf, resetera etc and laughing their asses off seeing fanboys discuss and fight over their 'leaks'.

One leaker started with this 14TF and many followed. Theres leaks with less TFs but no one wants to believe those, lower spec leaks are often not part of the discussion for Sony fans as it turns out their power hungry. You want your leak to be famous, dont go under that barrier of a TF number.

Then theres some 'officials' who want the spotlights and come with their take after reading those 'leaks'. Like this 3drealms guy or this benj sales manager.
 
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FranXico

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Yo check this out.

Microsoft was right in 2013: This is the always-on generation​

Xbox was poised to dominate the eighth gaming cycle.
By: Jessica Conditt for Engadget

No one would argue Microsoft didn't mess up in 2013, but looking back on five years of computational advances and widespread internet adoption, it seems like the company was onto something with an always-on Xbox One. Its original vision for the eighth console generation has come true. Today, the Xbox One, PS4 and even Nintendo Switch are all online-focused consoles, with the bulk of their entertainment options tied directly to streaming or live online services. Many of the top games today only work online, including League of Legends, Overwatch, Fortnite, Dota 2, PUBG, Rust, Roblox and multiplayer Battlefield, Star Wars Battlefront and Call of Duty iterations. Even games that don't have online components receive regular updates via an internet connection, often on day one. Esports -- games of high skill played against people around the world -- have exploded in popularity. Netflix, the most-used app on the Xbox ecosystem, today has 125 million subscribers and is valued at more than $140 billion, competing directly with giants like Disney and Comcast. Twitch, owned by Amazon since 2014, is a global livestreaming phenomenon with more than 15 million daily active viewers.

Our online world has changed drastically in the past five years and the gaming industry has done a fairly good job of keeping up, taking advantage of better connections and more widespread internet adoption, and generally pushing the technology industry to evolve. Now imagine the street cred Microsoft would have if it had pressed forward with its online version of the future -- and actually succeeded in selling it to the public. Allowing physical games to be given away once after this process was generous, from a digital-first standpoint. Plus, with a constant (or at least regular) internet connection, players could share their entire digital libraries with friends at the tap of a button. The current video game marketplace makes Sony's 2013 jab at Microsoft's game-sharing policies look hopelessly out of touch. The video showed two people sharing a game by simply handing over a box, but who actually buys discs anymore?



The Xbox One probably wouldn't operate very differently today had Microsoft stuck with its original plan
. Players can share their libraries with friends, download games to their Xbox accounts and take them to other consoles, and stream media all day long if they'd like. But maybe Microsoft's dedication to digital gaming would have paid off in unforeseen ways. It could put more pressure on the PS4 to play catch-up -- maybe Sony would have given in to demands for cross-console play by now. It is the lone holdout in that regard, after all. Microsoft had a wild idea, and looking back, it was a good one. However, selling DRM to video game fans isn't easy, and Xbox leaders took every wrong turn they saw. They could have laid out a clear vision of gaming's digital future, expressed all of the benefits this system could bestow upon players, and then branded the Xbox One as the only console capable of fully delivering on this promise. Players simply wanted to buy into a future they could believe in, and the Xbox crew couldn't keep its story straight.
https://www.engadget.com/2018/06/10/xbox-one-reveal-always-on-online-sony-ps4-e3/
Revisionist propaganda.
 

onQ123

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based on what? Those are very specific numnbers
~ means



This symbol (in English) informally means "approximately", "about", or "around", such as "~30 minutes before", meaning "approximately 30 minutes before". It can mean "similar to", including "of the same order of magnitude as", such as: "x ~ y" meaning that x and y are of the same order of magnitude.
 
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If the PS5 end up sitting at around 13tf, there won't be much room for the next Xbox revision to be "significantly more power ful".

I don't know if this is still in the rumors, but Sony was supposed to integrate some AI chip, or circuits, this could be used in interesting ways to accelerate rendering, or create really interesting enemy AI in single player games... However I am not sure if there's enough budget left when you have 24GB of RAM, a decently fast zen2 based CPU, a 13tf GPU + ultra fast storage... The latter being pretty interesting for open world games where you drive around, those motorcycle driving sections in days gone would probably be much faster given better streaming performance!

Ms may bring in their secret sauce too, who knows?
 
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Do you guys understand that the weaker nextgen Xbox will be the base console again in the next generation just like XONE is in the current?
You must be talking about the exclusives, because many recent 3rd party titles seem to be barely playable on base Xbox one (the S that is, I have not found information about even the basic Xbox one).
 

Hendrick's

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Do you guys understand that the weaker nextgen Xbox will be the base console again in the next generation just like XONE is in the current? Everything will be built around that so let's hope it will be much more powerful than 4TF...
No we don't understand that. Show me where MS has announced any of this. My prediction is that they launch first with the Cadillac, and then bring in the Kia later.
 

onQ123

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You're saying approx and working with decimals, i think you need to be using ≈ . What's the source for your approximation?

I used random numbers of CUs at clock speeds that may or might not be the actual clock speeds
 

xool

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so these 8 cores running at 3.2 ghz is how many times faster than our jaguar cores?
Depends what you count - Jaguar vector SIMD was actually fairly good and as good as Bulldozer iirc, , and it already has/had some out-of-order / speculative execution hardware - but outside that (eg branching code) the bigger Bulldozer and Zen cores are much better

The 8 Jaguar cores @ 1.6GHz had a peak of 102.4 GFlops (8 flops per cycle per core averaged)

Zen 2 is capable of 16 flops per cycle per core, plus it will be at least 3.2 GHz (2x as fast) - so that should be at least 4x the Flops of Jaguar (the 2x extra threads from hyperthreading in Zen doesn't change the math here because it shares resources - though they should/might give better utilization - ie near to theoretical peak numbers irl)

So at least 4x the vector FLOPS, and similar (or better) improvement on "logic" code -

[disclaimer - chances I made a mistake are high, and this is a pretty shallow take on the architecture]

[edit - I just found this someone compare compile times - found a ~2x improvement (per clock) from Zen+ from Jaguar - compile times are likely quite branchy logic heavy code - so represent the other end of the spectrum from vector code..]

Overall I'd say 4x or better in all areas overall
 
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TeamGhobad

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Depends what you count - Jaguar vector SIMD was actually fairly good and as good as Bulldozer iirc, , and it already has/had some out-of-order / speculative execution hardware - but outside that (eg branching code) the bigger Bulldozer and Zen cores are much better

The 8 Jaguar cores @ 1.6GHz had a peak of 102.4 GFlops (8 flops per cycle per core averaged)

Zen 2 is capable of 16 flops per cycle per core, plus it will be at least 3.2 GHz (2x as fast) - so that should be at least 4x the Flops of Jaguar (the 2x extra threads from hyperthreading in Zen doesn't change the math here because it shares resources - though they should/might give better utilization - ie near to theoretical peak numbers irl)

So at least 4x the vector FLOPS, and similar (or better) improvement on "logic" code -

[disclaimer - chances I made a mistake are high, and this is a pretty shallow take on the architecture]

[edit - I just found this someone compare compile times - found a ~2x improvement (per clock) from Zen+ from Jaguar - compile times are likely quite branchy logic heavy code - so represent the other end of the spectrum from vector code..]

Overall I'd say 4x or better in all areas overall
so bulldozer having 4 times the IPC of jaguar is not true cause thats what I heard. i guess 4 times is ok not great.
 
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xool

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so bulldozer having 4 times the IPC of jaguar is not true cause thats what I heard. i guess 4 times is ok not great.
I really can't answer questions on Bulldozer properly - I remember its SIMD (vector float) performance being relatively weak for the size/cost of the chip - a bit like Sun's Sparc T5 (but not to the same extreme) - but with lots of integer and logic performance - basically designed for multithreaded applications (probably running the same code) ie servers, not physics/science math calculations..

I'd guess it was 4x on integer, and much better performing overal, but not a great showing on vector SIMD (per $) which is important for games..
 
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SonGoku

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if you actually read that pcgamesn article that you link so actively these days carefully, you will see that it say's exactly what i told above:
Im not disputing how it works, im calling you out on your claim that the gap would be much much smaller in consoles.
That just isn't the case otherwise the 750Ti wouldn't trade blows with PS4, the GTX 1060 wouldn't run circles around the PRO and trade blows with the X

To put the final nail in the coffin, AMD is switching to a more nvidia like architecture.
 

Insane Metal

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I feel like Friday is a good day to leak the Snek specs.

And just wait and see PS5 being basically the same power level.