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[Mista]

SonyGAF was hyped as fuck when we found out how much more powerful PS4 was compared to X1. Now it’s “well nobody cares about power, what matters is the games!!”

Honestly don’t care who wins the power war, but this is making it pretty entertaining to watch.

Typical. Same as when the BC for Xbox was announced. What did they say? Uuummmm nobody plays old games. Now the PS5 is BC? Ooohhhh yyyeeeaahhhhhh lets gooo Sony. Very entertaining mate. Want me to get you some popcorn while we watch and enjoy?

 

[HeadsUp7Up]

Wake up folks. All of this stuff is stupid and we’re all just a bunch of pawns going to battle for these companies that only care about our money. Stop aligning your identity with consumer goods and brands that don’t even know who you are. (Steps off soap box)

I’ll still be buying both just like this time and I’ll probably upgrade my Switch to whatever more powerful option they have. Can’t wait for next gen!

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

as soon as we heard rumors about next Xbox being more powerful than PS5.

I think features are going to make or break, far more than mere Tflop here or there(and I think this time it is doubtful there's going to be a 2x advantage unless one of the consoles is like 8TF). It depends who got the best features added into their system, microsoft or sony. In the 360 era the unified shaders provided an absolute advantage. Right now nvidia has rtx ray tracing acceleration, without said acceleration at least at ray tracing it seems that it is difficult to compete unless some compute algorithm is found faster than their particular accelerated algorithms.

We have to see what the graphics researchers at both company chose to focus on and the features they asked be implemented.

 

[Clear]

Typical. Same as when the BC for Xbox was announced. What did they say? Uuummmm nobody plays old games. Now the PS5 is BC? Ooohhhh yyyeeeaahhhhhh lets gooo Sony. Very entertaining mate. Want me to get you some popcorn while we watch and enjoy?

Oh please. Don't act like b/c for 360 (which lets be honest, wasn't there at launch - even as a "promise") has anything close to the sort of value to the user that PS4 b/c has on the next Playstation.

People were bored to death of the same old games by the end of the extended PS3/360 gen anyway, especially on Xbox where first-party output had ground to a halt outside of Kinect crap.

 

[n0razi]

Yeah but does it have any games?

 

[Three]

What are you on about ?

Somebody said PS5 will sell 100Mil regardless and you said steady on and predicted a possible PS3 scenario were they sold near 90Mil anyway.

 

[Mista]

Oh please. Don't act like b/c for 360 (which lets be honest, wasn't there at launch - even as a "promise") has anything close to the sort of value to the user that PS4 b/c has on the next Playstation.

People were bored to death of the same old games by the end of the extended PS3/360 gen anyway, especially on Xbox where first-party output had ground to a halt outside of Kinect crap.

Sure, that’s why all of them started doing a shit ton of remasters this gen..

 

[SaucyJack]

1. PS4 and X1 used the same GPU and CPU architectures, yet PS4’s GPU was twice as powerful

2. Some of the rumors here suggest that Xbox WILL indeed use a different architecture (Arcturus vs Navi)

3. That’s all beside the point. Wasn’t my intention to predict the magnitude of the power difference. I was remarking how funny it is that the prevailing attitude on GAF shifted from “OMG PS4 is a beast, it’s gonna be so awesome!!” to “power doesn’t matter, right guys?” as soon as we heard rumors about next Xbox being more powerful than PS5.

Navi doesn’t release until later this year but Xbox is going to use Arcturus. Lol.

Every Anaconda rumour has been custom Navi. First suggestion of Arcturus for Xbox comes after Cerny also mentions custom Navi. Seriously guys.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I feel lucky I don't have to make a choice. Graphics are not that important to me, I'm staying at 1080p, and at that res the difference between the consoles will be minimal, so I'm staying in the PlayStation environment because I have my friends there, I can continue playing/revisit my Ps4 games, psvr from the start and later PSVR2 (which is the thing I MOST WANT from next gen) and i prefer ps4 exclusives (some... not all, stuff like Uncharted, TLOU, Horizon and GT mean nothing to me. But I care for God of War, Dreams, Ghost of Tsushima, Medievil, etc).

I'm here just to eat popcorn and watch the snow!

 

[Mista]

prefer ps4 exclusives (some... not all, stuff like Uncharted, TLOU, Horizon and GT mean nothing to me. But I care for God of War, Dreams, Ghost of Tsushima, Medievil, etc).

Oh yeah baby! So hyped for Ghost of Tsushima and the next God of War!

 

[transformer]

Yeah but does it have any games?

I think it goes without saying that it will be backwards compatible with existing xbox games. So yes, quite a few games already and it's not even out yet.

 

[SonGoku]

1. PS4 and X1 used the same GPU and CPU architectures, yet PS4’s GPU was twice as powerful

2. Some of the rumors here suggest that Xbox WILL indeed use a different architecture (Arcturus vs Navi)

3. That’s all beside the point. Wasn’t my intention to predict the magnitude of the power difference. I was remarking how funny it is that the prevailing attitude on GAF shifted from “OMG PS4 is a beast, it’s gonna be so awesome!!” to “power doesn’t matter, right guys?” as soon as we heard rumors about next Xbox being more powerful than PS5.

1. Not even 1.4x stronger, where are you getting your 2x figures? The difference is explained by SRAM taking a chunk of the budget die space.
2. Rumors are just that rumors
3. I suggest you stop generalizing, how about you call out some names from people posting in this thread?

Typical. Same as when the BC for Xbox was announced. What did they say? Uuummmm nobody plays old games. Now the PS5 is BC? Ooohhhh yyyeeeaahhhhhh lets gooo Sony. Very entertaining mate. Want me to get you some popcorn while we watch and enjoy?

How about you post some names? to back up your claim
Broad generalizations are tiring

 

[Shin]

I think so yes, there's no way Sony is settling with a obsolete arch if there is a vastly superior arch in the same release timetable

How is it obsolete when it's not even out yet and the high-end (Navi 20) won't be out until next year.
Sony has shown hey weren't willing to break the bank with Pro, both sides have sales data (volume and acceptable price for a "premium" model).
GCN has to end at some point, if you can't get more out of Navi because it's already made for 7nm then you're going to redesign the whole thing.

 

[Mista]

How about you post some names? to back up your claim
Broad generalizations are tiring

Talking about the fanboys situation in general. But apparently you can tell who’s here a fanboy of what unless you can’t figure it out by reading posts.

 

[Chiggs]

My plastic box of choice is under attack! I must rally to its cause! My liege!

 

[CyberPanda]

My plastic box of choice is under attack! I must rally to its cause! My liege!

 

[DForce]

Typical. Same as when the BC for Xbox was announced. What did they say? Uuummmm nobody plays old games. Now the PS5 is BC? Ooohhhh yyyeeeaahhhhhh lets gooo Sony. Very entertaining mate. Want me to get you some popcorn while we watch and enjoy?

Typical Xbox fanboys

Power mattered before this generation. Seems like a lot of Xbox fans are too young to remember that the original Xbox console was marketed based on POWER. I remember the day of Team Xbox where Xbox fans hyped graphics.

Carried over to the 360 because games were running better on the Xbox compared to the PS4.

But that changed when PS4 was announced as the more powerful console and "power didn't matter".


Things changed again...


Xbox fans hyped the Cloud and DX12 because it was going to make the XB1 more powerful than the PS4.


When Xbox fans released it wasn't going to make the XB1 more powerful, the narrative changed again.



Wait, what happened when Scorpio specs were released?


Yeah, If I'm an Xbox fanboy, I wouldn't talk about Sony fans flip-flopping.

 

[SonGoku]

How is it obsolete when it's not even out yet and the high-end (Navi 20) won't be out until next year.

An end of life arch for the next 6 years is obsolete and doesnt make sense to go for it if the new arch is available at the same time
It would be as bad as PS3 going with RSX a fixed shader obsolete arch, i doubt theyll repeat that mistake.

Sony has shown hey weren't willing to break the bank with Pro, both sides have sales data

Where is the data that shows Pro earning more profit per unit sold compared to the X?
The difference in hardware its because of higher price and coming a year later, it has nothing to do with breaking bank or otherwise

GCN has to end at some point, if you can't get more out of Navi because it's already made for 7nm then you're going to redesign the whole thing.

I agree, so?

 

[Mista]

Typical Xbox fanboys

Power mattered before this generation. Seems like a lot of Xbox fans are too young to remember that the original Xbox console was marketed based on POWER. I remember the day of Team Xbox where Xbox fans hyped graphics.

Carried over to the 360 because games were running better on the Xbox compared to the PS4.

But that changed when PS4 was announced as the more powerful console and "power didn't matter".


Things changed again...


Xbox fans hyped the Cloud and DX12 because it was going to make the XB1 more powerful than the PS4.


When Xbox fans released it wasn't going to make the XB1 more powerful, the narrative changed again.



Wait, what happened when Scorpio specs were released?


Yeah, If I'm an Xbox fanboy, I wouldn't talk about Sony fans flip-flopping.

Yes also Xbox fanboys are stupid just like any other fanboys nobody said anything else. Xbox being my main platform isn’t equal to being a fanboy. I have all current gen platforms and I’m enjoying my time thanks.

 

[DForce]

Yes also Xbox fanboys are stupid just like any other fanboys nobody said anything else. Xbox being my main platform isn’t equal to being a fanboy. I have all current gen platforms and I’m enjoying my time thanks.

You replied to a post that talked about Sony fanboys, and I continued to talk about Xbox fanboys because you failed to mention that in your post.

 

[n0razi]

I think it goes without saying that it will be backwards compatible with existing xbox games. So yes, quite a few games already and it's not even out yet.

Everyone who wants to play Xbox One/360 games already has an Xbox One since they are going for $150 now..... no one is buying a $400-500 successor for Xbox One/360 games

 

[SonGoku]

Talking about the fanboys situation in general. But apparently you can tell who’s here a fanboy of what unless you can’t figure it out by reading posts.

But you aren't just talking about fanboys, you make a specific claim.
IF you make a very specific claim of people behaving a certain way only to later pull a 180, you should back it up with very specific evidence of them doing so
Such generalizations are frowned upon because they contribute nothing and instead distract from the conversation.

At least come up with a list of 10 names, should be easy if this phenomenon is as widespread as you claim.

 

[Mista]

But you aren't just talking about fanboys, you make a specific claim.
IF you make a very specific claim of people behaving a certain way only to later pull a 180, you should back it up with very specific evidence of them doing so
Such generalizations are frowned upon because they contribute nothing and instead distract from the conversation.

At least come up with a list of 10 names, should be easy is this phenomenon is as widespread as you claim.

What are you on about? Talking about fanboys isn’t a specific claim? Well it is, I’m talking about fanboys and I can name you more than 10 from what I see daily on Twitter so I don’t know what do you want now? I wasn’t shitting on anyone here at the end of the day

 

[CyberPanda]

Honestly, both systems will be good for Pete’s sake, and relatively close in power. If one has an edge over the other, who cares? You won’t be able to tell the difference in graphics between them unless you zoom into a picture 300x. Digital Foundry is going to very boring to watch next-generation, that’s for sure.


Also, both systems will have good games, and whatever tickles your fancy just get that system, and enjoy. At the end of the day these corporations aren’t your friend, and only care about your money, nothing more. If you are an investor, then that’s a whole other different scenario altogether. It’s all going to come down to services, games and features in the end. Next gen is going to be very interesting!

 

[SonGoku]

What are you on about? Talking about fanboys isn’t a specific claim? Well it is, I’m talking about fanboys and I can name you more than 10 from what I see daily on Twitter so I don’t know what do you want now? I wasn’t shitting on anyone here at the end of the day

Same as when the BC for Xbox was announced. What did they say? Uuummmm nobody plays old games. Now the PS5 is BC? Ooohhhh yyyeeeaahhhhhh lets gooo Sony. Very entertaining mate.

Who is they? who are the people you saw doing this
I mean for you to say this with any level of certainty you must have specific people in mind that pulled a 180.

edit: I quoted you because you responded in agreement with S shark sandwich post that claimed to have observed such behavior on this thread from "SonyGaF".

 

[Shin]

An end of life arch for the next 6 years is obsolete and doesnt make sense to go for it if the new arch is available at the same time

Yet it happens yearly for PC's with GPU's...refreshes,re-brands and all new.

Where is the data that shows Pro earning more profit per unit sold compared to the X?
The difference in hardware its because of higher price and coming a year later, it has nothing to do with breaking bank or otherwise

You honestly asking me for sales data of those iteration when both companies have tucked them away under the basic models? /facepalm

In case you honestly care about technology and not some shit off the topic of your head to fit your criteria then feel free to look up:
Arcturus dev-kit leak, compare it to Scorpio, follow up with Brad Sams comment (which he deleted, but that's the point) then follow it up by Jez Cordon not debunking it.
After all that is said and done go find some credible people that claim it's fake, someone of substance and you'd be hard pressed to do so, once you're done with all that we'll talk again.
Oh right the attach-rate is higher or was/has been higher on XO since X360 and I believe there's an article(s) from a year or max 2 back that said the same about the current XO consoles.
For me it doesn't matter which is strong, might be stronger and all that but I'm all for discussing technology, so i'd be nice if you have more than just an opinion, there's lots of info out there.

Not even going to say Sony was scared or whatever the fuck "more advanced" means as it can be a turd on the SoC and still hold true to that claim -_-
Yet if PS5 is/will be stronger than whatever Anaconda ends up being then Sony would have likely done so closer to E3 or perhaps after it, from a point of strength.

 

[spawn]

It will only be more advanced if their plan is to release a year after PS5 which MS won't do. They would be far behind the competition in sales and wouldn't catch up

 

[mckmas8808]

It will only be more advanced if their plan is to release a year after PS5 which MS won't do. They would be far behind the competition in sales and wouldn't catch up

Why don't more people think about this point?

 

[SonGoku]

Yet it happens yearly for PC's with GPU's...refreshes,re-brands and all new.

Not even close, GNC is an arch that was present since 2012. This doesn't happen frequently, a far cry from "yearly refreshes".

You honestly asking me for sales data of those iteration when both companies have tucked them away under the basic models? /facepalm

You are honestly claiming MS broke the bank with the X, while Sony did not without any actual data to back it up? /facepalm

Im not agreeing nor debunking any rumor, my point is MS will not release a newer arch in the same year as PS5, they'll be a year later minimum to pull something like that.

 

[Bogroll]

Somebody said PS5 will sell 100Mil regardless and you said steady on and predicted a possible PS3 scenario were they sold near 90Mil anyway.

and i also said in the same paragraph "i wouldn't bet against it" whilst implying but don't take it for granted.

BTW 10 million consoles is a lot, it's not like saying it sold 9 oh that's near enough 10.

 

[Afro Republican]

People are literally fighting in this thread over who's lack of information is closest to actually having a smidgen of actual information



Which is funny because the point of the thread was to find out the reliability of the leakers. The first guy is some random guy with 721 YouTube subs, and the second is a poster or reset who may or may not have a track record.

 

[Elenchus]

But was does that matter?

Assume everything they previously leaked was 100% legit.

1. This isn't a leak, because they aren't actually leaking anything. So their track record means nothing when the statement is nothing.

2. Just because they have insider information for Xbox, doesn't mean they have any for Playstation. So being 100% Xbox right doesn't mean you know anything about Playstation.

And overall anyone claiming (insider or not) that Sony is doing Damage Control is just being silly. We should all know by now that being the most powerful isn't the priority for consumers. Price point, games are. How is 4K Xbox doing vs 720p Switch. Thats a statement I'd expect from random twitter users only.

You say price matters and then proceed to compare a cheap handheld to a premium console. People interested in buying a handheld make up a completely different customer base than those looking for premium 4k gaming.

It’s like comparing motorcycle sales to SUV sales. Both modes of transport sure but do you actually think the two groups of customers are the same? That’s silly.

 

[Shin]

Not even close, GNC is an arch that was present since 2012. This doesn't happen frequently, a far cry from "yearly refreshes".

I said PC's and GPU's this means nVidia included...which would only support the point I'm making.
AMD stayed too long with GCN, practically every card on the arch was plagued by 1 issue or another.

You are honestly claiming MS broke the bank with the X, while Sony did not without any actual data to back it up? /facepalm

Interesting spin. I said Sony didn't want spend as much on Pro (breaking the bank) while Microsoft didn't have any issues doing so.

my point is MS will not release a newer arch in the same year as PS5, they'll be a year later minimum to pull something like that.

I disagree with a year later as they can't afford that loss, there's something missing about Navi/Arcturus something no one has talked about yet.
Latest info is that it's a specialized chip (it's in the video I posted in this thread).

 

[DeepEnigma]

Navi doesn’t release until later this year but Xbox is going to use Arcturus. Lol.

Every Anaconda rumour has been custom Navi. First suggestion of Arcturus for Xbox comes after Cerny also mentions custom Navi. Seriously guys.

Indeed.

Every rumor was “Navi too”. And every rumor was “Zen2 tho”. Now that Cerny drops the PS5 architecture, all of the sudden it’s Zen3/Arcturus hopes and dreams.

You’re not going to get those in a console within the same year they’re barely able to squeeze out PC yields.

They still have to test out full blown versions of the chips before they can even tap to a mobile APU style. And then there’s the whole same year super high cost that goes with it versus almost a year later.

Come on.

 

[Shin]

First suggestion of Arcturus for Xbox comes after Cerny also mentions custom Navi.

Factually incorrect unless Cerny has a time machine and went back to at least 2 months in time to announce the PS5.

 

[TGO]

We know they said the 1X was going to be more powerful than the Pro and it certainly lived up to that.
The Pro does 1440p while the 1X actually does native 4K.

And water is wet, it would be embarrassing if XOX released a year later with a weaker console.
For the time gap and price I'm surprised it wasn't more powerful.
And it does 4k at a cost
The machine better operates at 1800p

 

[SonGoku]

I said PC's and GPU's this means nVidia included...which would only support the point I'm making.

But we are talking about AMD architecture, Nvidia is irrelevant to the discussion or the point i was making.
Not that Nvidia offers such drastic architectural changes yearly anyways, refreshes and rebrands are not architecture changes, so by your own admission this type of shift does not happen yearly.

The closest thing to the jump from GCN is comparable to the jump from Tesla to Fermi/Kepler or Fermi to Turing.

I said Sony didn't want spend as much on Pro (breaking the bank) while Microsoft didn't have any issues doing so.

Where is the data to back up this claim of yours? or are we just making stuff up?

I disagree with a year later as they can't afford that loss, there's something missing about Navi/Arcturus something no one has talked about yet.

Its not about money, if a vastly superior arch is available at time of release Sony won't let that go
Since you like to use companies behavior as proof of their future behavior you should know Sony used bleeding edge tech in both the PS4 and Pro revision, they used architecture features that were only later available.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

You say price matters and then proceed to compare a cheap handheld to a premium console. People interested in buying a handheld make up a completely different customer base than those looking for premium 4k gaming.

It’s like comparing motorcycle sales to SUV sales. Both modes of transport sure but do you actually think the two groups of customers are the same? That’s silly.

Then compare the Switch to the non X Xbox One

Price point and games > max resolution for the majority of consumers.

 

[Imtjnotu]

It’s okay to correct me if I’m wrong

I'm just saying to check the info you gave. Nothing more.

 

[Gamernyc78]

1. PS4 and X1 used the same GPU and CPU architectures, yet PS4’s GPU was twice as powerful

2. Some of the rumors here suggest that Xbox WILL indeed use a different architecture (Arcturus vs Navi)

3. That’s all beside the point. Wasn’t my intention to predict the magnitude of the power difference. I was remarking how funny it is that the prevailing attitude on GAF shifted from “OMG PS4 is a beast, it’s gonna be so awesome!!” to “power doesn’t matter, right guys?” as soon as we heard rumors about next Xbox being more powerful than PS5.

I don't see tht at all. I see ppl having different takes overall and Sony followers will always mention their exclusives because they are known for tht quality and graphically being better no matter the power of the other system . Why would ps5 still not be a beast even if Microsoft is a bit stronger? They can both be beasts with little nuances differentiating them.

I'm of the mind tht no matter which one is more powerful they will be close in power and it'll be negligible. Psvr has me hype and thts not found on the other consoles. Sony exclusives will talk as they always have. I'm hoping Microsoft comes out with a differentiator tht will make me buy it because a bit power difference and streaming already found on Sony consoles won't sway me.

 

[Shin]

But

You're saying that AMD can't follow similar progress or rather don't want them to, ever heard of "after rain comes sunshine"?

Where is the data to back up this claim of yours? or are we just making stuff up?

I responded to this already, but it seems I have to think for you as well so here goes.
RX 480 in Pro, refreshed, RX 580 and used in XO, Sony could have pushed for more Teraflops but they didn't think of using vapor chamber or even more memory what do you call that lack of vision, stupidity, greed?
As you insinuating that they don't have sales data that possibly lead how they tackled the new consoles, strangest thing - we've never heard of either selling badly yet one might create a more powerful console and so far nothing to debunk those claims (in contrary it's just solidifying).

Its not about money, if a vastly superior arch is available at time of release Sony won't let that go
Since you like to use companies behavior as proof of their future behavior you should know Sony used bleeding edge tech in both the PS4 and Pro revision, they used architecture features that were only later available.

Was that Sony though beside the ID buffer and something else or was that AMD?
Vastly superior is your assumption and wording, we already don't know jackshit about Navi thanks to AMD, we know even less about Arcturus.
This thread is about advanced bla bla by bla bla insiders, I ignored all that initially <--- and said it might be Arcturus because things point to that long before PS5 stuff was announced.
If it's some crazy fanboy shit it would have been debunked left and right (like you are), yet that's not the case so we can go on and on but it's not going anywhere.
I'm leaving it up in the air that there's a possibility.

 

[GTR R35_Supra RZ]

My plastic box of choice is under attack! I must rally to its cause! My liege!

Boiii ! talk about you nailed it !!SonyGAF in the nutshell

 

[Mikey Jr.]

We'll see. Full PS4 BC might be Sonys answer to a more powerful Xbox if true.

Its hard when you have a ton of digital games locked to your account to just kinda abandon it and move somewhere else. Not only that, save files, and multiplayer progress.
Of course the console will still be there, but its nice to take those things with you. Especially if the games get a graphical boost as well.

And man, if they also went the Xbox route and said they are working on legacy consoles too?

It would be hard to switch. I wonder what this gen would have looked like if Xbox 1 had BC right out the gate rather than giving people the option to move to a different console.

 

[SonGoku]

You're saying that AMD can't follow similar progress or rather don't want them to, ever heard of "after rain comes sunshine"?

Nvdia can't follow similar progress either, yearly refreshes are not architecture changes
There's also a distinction to be made from big and small architecture changes

For Nvidia their biggest arch shift in recent times are Tesla, Fermi and Turing. Again a far cry from yearly releases.

Sony could have pushed for more Teraflops but they didn't think of using vapor chamber or even more memory what do you call that lack of vision, stupidity, greed?

They released a year earlier costing $100 less that's the justification
MS had one year and $100 to came up with a vapor chamber, 4GB and slight bigger GPU

They didn't break bank compared to Sony, they just sold a more expensive product a year later.

we've never heard of either selling badly yet one might create a more powerful console and so far nothing to debunk those claims (in contrary it's just solidifying).

What claims?

Vastly superior is your assumption and wording

A post GCN arch is the biggest shift of the decade for AMD, if that isnt vastly superior compared to a 10 year old arch then what is?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Boiii ! talk about you nailed it !!SonyGAF in the nutshell

Irony or lack of self awareness?

 

[Saber]

How come that they made a claim like that with nothing to support?

Did the insiders felt like hurt or something? Are they really "insiders"?

 

[Shin]

?

I give up.

 

[Virex]

Bet the next Xbox will have one of those hidden stacked GPUs that will be magically activated with DX13 and become godly

 

[Hendrick's]

Even if it is slightly more powerful. The ps brand name, the huge ps4 install base and the fact that your already purchased ps4 library will probably be easy playable on ps5, gives sony a huge edge going into next gen. They will probably continue with their success and xbox will still be second fiddle.

You could have said all those same things about Xbox coming into this gen and look what happened.

 

[NickFire]

We'll see. Full PS4 BC might be Sonys answer to a more powerful Xbox if true.

Its hard when you have a ton of digital games locked to your account to just kinda abandon it and move somewhere else. Not only that, save files, and multiplayer progress.
Of course the console will still be there, but its nice to take those things with you. Especially if the games get a graphical boost as well.

And man, if they also went the Xbox route and said they are working on legacy consoles too?

It would be hard to switch. I wonder what this gen would have looked like if Xbox 1 had BC right out the gate rather than giving people the option to move to a different console.

Full BC at launch will be huge, and a major incentive to stay within the current eco-system for owners of either console. If One had BC at launch I probably would have stayed in MS eco-system, but no way to really know. The reasons I am not sure are the power / price difference caused by Kinnect, and the relatively few games I owned digitally on 360 which weren't free. Plus, back then I didn't see game consoles quite the same way. Today, thanks to Pro and X (and Apple) I see new consoles as more an evolution than a clean break from the past.