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Nextgen consoles expected graphics improvents.

Shangounchained

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This is a list of graphics and effects I expect and wish to be improved in the coming Scarlett and ps5 generation.
1. (SPRITES)... I think we've had enough overuse of sprites in rendering everything from grass to smoke and fire particles dirt u name it, as u can see,


sprites ruin the experience anybody can tell the grass and the car dirt plume is flat! We need more volumetrics like below here




We need this.

2.(hair rendering and cloth physics)
Surely facial animations and polycounts are much improved this days but hair still looks weird and cloth physics still remains plastics and towel like, examples...

. seen here developers have to improvise and create conserved looking hair fashions to keep the polygon or memory budget low.


And here as I've seen time and time again since last gen till today cloth physics is still a problem, clothes still look plasticy no life in them it's like they came straight out of zbrush, I hope they can pull a bit of natural cloth movements and physics next gen.

3.( WATER and FLUID simulations)
Fluid simulations are still a problem today, games still rely on tesselation, pixel and vertex shaders to do fool people but theyve fooled us enough it's time we see more fluid volumes and simulations for instance.

Here in rdr2 and all current games the water is simply a shader trick no fluid simulations at all it's flat, some good ripples but it's still a mesh, hope we get more fluid simulations next gen like in claybook, or Nvidia flex demo.



.
4.(DESTRUCTION)
This generation has been disappointing in the destruction department, we've had fairly nice graphics and assets through the board but can't destroy them! battlefield bad company, mercernaries 2 world in flames and red factions, all this games came out last gen and we got nothing this current gen on those levels, we seriously need better destruction tech on next gen consoles, examples...
here is battlefield bad company 2 it's embarrassing games today can't beat a 10 year old game on destruction, heck you could even nuke a whole city block in mercernaries 2, I've no idea why they couldn't do this on current consoles, we need more tech like this voxel based, or claybooks tech,. ...


In conclusion this is my summary of the technologies if like to see improved with next gen consoles, my honest opinion I don't think we need 8k resolutions and 120fps on next gen consoles if such graphics fidelity technologies aren't improved, it's not worth it to buy a next gen console that doesn't improve on graphics at first to me resolutions and frame rates come second,
I'm not going to line up for a ps5 or Scarlett just to play old looking graphics with higher frames and resolutions, have your say!
 

carsar

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We need realistic animations and collisions, Even rdr 2 has problems with that. Graphical artifacts(aliasing, taa ghosting, blurry image, visible lods, screen space limitations) should be gone. And more important -all assets need to be equal in terms of quality.
 
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GymWolf

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I only care about physics, ia, destruction, animation and raw details.

Yeah realistic hair or water are good but my focus is on other things.


Like for example stuff like euphoria engine and motion matching needs to be the fucking base for every animation system in the future, the difference between stuff like rdr2 and other games is astonishing...
 
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Croatoan

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We are twenty years away from having real fluid dynamics in a game with AAA visuals, and by then we will likely be using digital atoms to simulate worlds (think minecraft but every block is an atom).
 

Shangounchained

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I only care about physics, ia, destruction, animation and raw details.

Yeah realistic hair or water are good but my focus is on other things.


Like for example stuff like euphoria engine and motion matching needs to be the fucking base for every animation system in the future, the difference between stuff like rdr2 and other games is astonishing...
I feel u but sprites bother me the most, any game any game at all no matter the resolutions animations raytracing lighting and what not, everytime I take a look at grass fire or an explosion I can tell it's a flat surface pretending to be volumetric
 

Shangounchained

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We are twenty years away from having real fluid dynamics in a game with AAA visuals, and by then we will likely be using digital atoms to simulate worlds (think minecraft but every block is an atom).
They used point clouds in dreams PS4 and claybook is also point cloud I don't think it's impossible it's how u implement it, for instance in war games you can render things using polygons and by l.o.d when u move closer u can turn them to destructible atoms or voxels,

and about fluids u don't have to render the whole ocean as a fluid simulation no but u can render the water close and interacting with the player as a fluid simulation the rest can keep being a mesh.
 

PeacefulWorldGuy

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Game developer priority in every new generation:
Graphic and resolution enthusiasm but with unstable 30fps, only old game/remaster edition who can handle that's 60fps (blame that's $300 consol price fanboy with apple iphone/samsung galaxy gadget.).

What we really need is:
No clipping
No blurry effect
No static hair
No creepy movement/facial animation
No broken game in day one
No politic content
And the important one is...
No shitty remaster anymore instead a new game, sequel or remake.
 
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Shangounchained

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Dec 1, 2018
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Game developer priority in every new generation:
Graphic and resolution enthusiasm but with unstable 30fps, only old game/remaster edition who can handle that's 60fps (blame that's $300 consol price fanboy with apple iphone/samsung galaxy gadget.).

What we really need is:
No clipping
No blurry effect
No static hair
No creepy movement/facial animation
No broken game in day one
No politic content
And the important one is...
No shitty remaster anymore instead a new game, sequel or remake.
First of all you will get politics cause sjws own this industry which we the casual dudes made, and secondly I hope they fix the problems u mentioned.
 

DESTROYA

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Personally I think Graphics looks fine just give me more frames per second and I’ll be happy, a steady 60FPS at 1080P should be minimum for every game and from what I hear how powerful these next gen consoles are should easily be done.
 

GymWolf

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I feel u but sprites bother me the most, any game any game at all no matter the resolutions animations raytracing lighting and what not, everytime I take a look at grass fire or an explosion I can tell it's a flat surface pretending to be volumetric
I think that every gamer has different priority, obut yeah what you say is also important.

for example i cringe hard with every single game where you kill something without proper hit reaction, dead animation and ragdoll in the fucking 2019 and with a game like fear that is superior to 80% of modern games in that regard, a game from 2005...
 
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Honey Bunny

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OP, thank you for giving me this opportunity to virtue signal that graphics don't matter to me and all I care about is the higher calling - gameplay.
 
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Shangounchained

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I think that every gamer has different priority, obut yeah what you say is also important.

for example i cringe hard with every single game where you kill something without proper hit reaction, dead animation and ragdoll in the fucking 2019 and with a game like fear that is superior to 80% of modern games in that regard, a game from 2005...
Watch this....


 

VFXVeteran

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Nov 5, 2019
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From a professional perspective after developing 3d graphics for 19yrs, here's my take on your wishlist:

1) Not happening anytime soon. Real volume affects require ray-marching and implicit surfaces. We have just gotten to ray-tracing and that's already not mastered by any means. Look for sprites in the next 10yrs. I can see more complex "looks" in sprites with fake self-shadowing, but not on the level of a simulation done through Houdini or something.

2) Cloth physics, yes. Hair physics, to a certain degree. I would say you need hair to not be spirtes first. Right now, hair is compose of rectangular strips with no good lighting or shadow. The hair primitives are just too sparse. This is because of hardware reasons. Actually rendering curved "tubes" as hair is a long way off. That kind of rendering is still one of the most expensive renders in film today.

3) Water/Fluid simulation - yes. Too many games tackle this at the last minute and it detracts from all the other aspects of the scene where they put more time into it. I'd imagine it's not important because of the script not really requiring real interaction with it. Simulating water as a real fluid isn't needed. If they used UE4's water sim used in Batman games, that would be good enough. IMO, the shading is the most important part. But I feel you, I'm tired of sin()/cos() wave animation for water.

4) Destruction - yes. We'll see more of this as it's not that expensive. Just time consuming with creating so many models for the different layers of destruction.
 
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JordanN

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OP, thank you for giving me this opportunity to virtue signal that graphics don't matter to me and all I care about is the higher calling - gameplay.
This, but for me it's not because graphics don't matter, but why focus on video game graphics?

Everything the OP mentions already exists. It's called CGI animation. If you want to look at pretty stuff so much, you can build a powerful computer and render all this stuff right now.

Otherwise, you're just disappointing yourself each generation because console technology takes forever to catch up to VFX.



Hundreds of renderfarms were needed to create the rain in this image. Why would next gen consoles do this when they're a million times slower? Even 10 years from now, we still wont have this level of image quality in real time.
 
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Shangounchained

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From a professional perspective after developing 3d graphics for 19yrs, here's my take on your wishlist:

1) Not happening anytime soon. Real volume affects require ray-marching and implicit surfaces. We have just gotten to ray-tracing and that's already not mastered by any means. Look for sprites in the next 10yrs. I can see more complex "looks" in sprites with fake self-shadowing, but not on the level of a simulation done through Houdini or something.

2) Cloth physics, yes. Hair physics, to a certain degree. I would say you need hair to not be spirtes first. Right now, hair is compose of rectangular strips with no good lighting or shadow. The hair primitives are just too sparse. This is because of hardware reasons. Actually rendering curved "tubes" as hair is a long way off. That kind of rendering is still one of the most expensive renders in film today.

3) Water/Fluid simulation - yes. Too many games tackle this at the last minute and it detracts from all the other aspects of the scene where they put more time into it. I'd imagine it's not important because of the script not really requiring real interaction with it. Simulating water as a real fluid isn't needed. If they used UE4's water sim used in Batman games, that would be good enough. IMO, the shading is the most important part. But I feel you, I'm tired of sin()/cos() wave animation for water.

4) Destruction - yes. We'll see more of this as it's not that expensive. Just time consuming with creating so many models for the different layers of destruction.
I mean w had more games doing better destruction last gen than we have now

And about, sprites, I know they'll still be there, but atleast in racing games they could make the dirt or smoke volumetric they did that in batman on pc and they did pre baked volumetric smoke on ryse Xbox one and uncharted 4 chase scene and a bunch of other current games, and grass less flat for god's sake. And they already do excellent volumetric clouds in rdr2 horizon zero dawn ace combat and all using ray marching so why not smoke?

Water fluids I mean they could render the whole ocean with with a shader but atleast make a bounding box of fluid simulation close to the player!
 
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DeepEnigma

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Physics and lighting are going to receive a substantial upgrade next gen I feel. And I am all for it. Two of my favorite effects that make the world and charters more convincing.
 
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Shangounchained

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This, but for me it's not because graphics don't matter, but why focus on video game graphics?

Everything the OP mentions already exists. It's called CGI animation. If you want to look at pretty stuff so much, you can build a powerful computer and render all this stuff right now.

Otherwise, you're just disappointing yourself each generation because console technology takes forever to catch up to VFX.



Hundreds of renderfarms were needed to create the rain in this image. Why would next gen consoles do this when they're a million times slower? Even 10 years from now, we still wont have this level of image quality in real time.
to my eyes console tech or realtime graphics have come closer to cgi, from playing pixels to boxy PS1 polygons to now uncharted 4 I can say we're getting closer every generation
To me it's not about how many hair follicles Disney have on the characters but about the stuff we can improve in realtime to have the same look as Disney and in sure that's achieavable, for instance the attention to detail on PS4 exclusives shows games can look much better

I just want my nextgen games to look better and the best they can there's no point of looking ugly we can't just give up and say oh well let's just go with the ugly looks if we did that then we'd still be playing Tetris!
 
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VFXVeteran

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I mean w had more games doing better destruction last gen than we have now

And about, sprites, I know they'll still be there, but atleast in racing games they could make the dirt or smoke volumetric they did that in batman on pc and they did pre baked volumetric smoke on ryse Xbox one and uncharted 4 chase scene and a bunch of other current games, and grass less flat for god's sake. And they already do excellent volumetric clouds in rdr2 horizon zero dawn ace combat and all using ray marching so why not smoke?

Water fluids I mean they could render the whole ocean with with a shader but atleast make a bounding box of fluid simulation close to the player!
I'm almost certain that the only game you mentioned with true 3d ray-marching volumes is Batman. The clouds are 2D sprites with 3D lighting information. If you recall, using the Batmobile in that game and blowing smoke tanked the framerate. It's a very costly feature when you are spending budget on other things (i.e. PBR, better AO, environment lighting, etc..)
 

Shangounchained

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Well Raytracing should improve things .
I think lighting wasn't so bad and problem is you can add raytracing and good lighting but if the assets are still poor i.e sprites or low poly assets then it doesn't matter your simply ray tracing a bunch of poor looking stuff, I call it make up on a frog!
 

Shangounchained

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Astonishing how old games are still better in some graphics features compared with modern games.
It really grinds my gears, dirt 2 was 30 FPS but to me still the best looking rally game and it did all that on consoles with 512mb ram, nowadays they have 8gb and still can't pull it of.
 

DeepEnigma

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Well Raytracing should improve things .
Agree, even if it is just mainly used for shadows, AO, etc. initially. That alone enhances the overall look and lighting as proven by RT enabled Tomb Raider on the PC which is AO and shadows only.

I am excited for the physics aspect, especially cloth physics. Bring on actual lifelike jerseys in MLB The Show!
 
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JordanN

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to my eyes console tech or realtime graphics have come closer to cgi, from playing pixels to boxy PS1 polygons to now uncharted 4 I can say we're getting closer every generation
To me it's not about how many hair follicles Disney have on the characters but about the stuff we can improve in realtime to have the same look as Disney and in sure that's achieavable, for instance the attention to detail on PS4 exclusives shows games can look much better

I just want my nextgen games to look better and the best they can there's no point of looking ugly we can't just give up and say oh well let's just go with the ugly looks if we did that then we'd still be playing Tetris!
That makes no sense.

You just created a thread saying why don't video games have smoke/fluid/hair in real time. Now you're saying current gen games (which don't have those things) are already on par with the most expensive Hollywood movie?

If you want your next gen games to look the best, that is not possible on console. The most powerful hardware has always been PC but even the most powerful PC still can't compete with what CGI Movies already accomplished 20 years ago.
 
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VFXVeteran

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Agree, even if it is just mainly used for shadows, AO, etc. initially. That alone enhances the overall look and lighting as proven by RT enabled Tomb Raider on the PC which is AO and shadows only.

I am excited for the physics aspect, especially cloth physics. Bring on actual lifelike jerseys in MLB The Show!
Tomb Raider was shadows only - not AO. AO/GI is the most computensive effect that gives the biggest results over any other hardware feature for RT that they've put out. Only Metro and Control have both AO/GI implemented using RTX (not counting Quake RTX or Minecraft).
 
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DeepEnigma

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Tomb Raider was shadows only - not AO. AO/GI is the most computensive effect that gives the biggest results over any other hardware feature for RT that they've put out. Only Metro and Control have both AO/GI implemented using RTX.
Ah ok, damn, even just shadows made a difference in overall look. The lighting seemed to pop through more convincing in the jungle shots.
 
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GymWolf

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Jun 11, 2019
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From a professional perspective after developing 3d graphics for 19yrs, here's my take on your wishlist:

1) Not happening anytime soon. Real volume affects require ray-marching and implicit surfaces. We have just gotten to ray-tracing and that's already not mastered by any means. Look for sprites in the next 10yrs. I can see more complex "looks" in sprites with fake self-shadowing, but not on the level of a simulation done through Houdini or something.

2) Cloth physics, yes. Hair physics, to a certain degree. I would say you need hair to not be spirtes first. Right now, hair is compose of rectangular strips with no good lighting or shadow. The hair primitives are just too sparse. This is because of hardware reasons. Actually rendering curved "tubes" as hair is a long way off. That kind of rendering is still one of the most expensive renders in film today.

3) Water/Fluid simulation - yes. Too many games tackle this at the last minute and it detracts from all the other aspects of the scene where they put more time into it. I'd imagine it's not important because of the script not really requiring real interaction with it. Simulating water as a real fluid isn't needed. If they used UE4's water sim used in Batman games, that would be good enough. IMO, the shading is the most important part. But I feel you, I'm tired of sin()/cos() wave animation for water.

4) Destruction - yes. We'll see more of this as it's not that expensive. Just time consuming with creating so many models for the different layers of destruction.
And what about complex animation systems??

Can we hope in something similar or even superior to euphoria engine and motion matching in future games? Or is not a power thing and more a time\money\game concept thing?
 

Shangounchained

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I'm almost certain that the only game you mentioned with true 3d ray-marching volumes is Batman. The clouds are 2D sprites with 3D lighting information. If you recall, using the Batmobile in that game and blowing smoke tanked the framerate. It's a very costly feature when you are spending budget on other things (i.e. PBR, better AO, environment lighting, etc..)
Costly feature for now but id hope with next gen hardware it won't be costly otherwise there's no point in calling ps5 and Scarlett next gen!

 
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Shangounchained

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And what about complex animation systems??

Can we hope in something similar or even superior to euphoria engine and motion matching in future games? Or is not a power thing and more a time\money\game concept thing?
Last of us 2 looks incredible in animation though the NPCs are repeated!
 

JordanN

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Costly feature for now but id hope with next gen hardware it won't be costly otherwise there's no point in calling ps5 and Scarlett next gen!
What will you do if that's the case?

Microsoft and Sony no longer make cutting edge consoles. They clearly just want to sell $400 machines that make a profit early on.

So next gen was already limited to begin with. It reminds me of this chart, if you want graphical power, consoles have already fallen behind a long time ago.

 
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SS501

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The only graphical upgrades i want from next gen is better lighting and better particle effects, games look great already aside from that. I'd prefer if they used all the extra power of the new consoles to create better gameplay, better level design, better AI, more FPS etc.
 

Lone Wolf

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I didn’t think systems these days did sprites. I thought they were all flat polygons?
 

Shangounchained

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I'm almost certain that the only game you mentioned with true 3d ray-marching volumes is Batman. The clouds are 2D sprites with 3D lighting information. If you recall, using the Batmobile in that game and blowing smoke tanked the framerate. It's a very costly feature when you are spending budget on other things (i.e. PBR, better AO, environment lighting, etc..)
They did ray marching in horizon you should read about how they made clouds here


 
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GymWolf

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Last of us 2 looks incredible in animation though the NPCs are repeated!
Npc are not repeAted.
They are a culT with same haircut for mens and women, but the face are actually different if you look at the 2 bald guy in first gameplay trailer.
 
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Shangounchained

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What will you do if that's the case?

Microsoft and Sony no longer make cutting edge consoles. They clearly just want to sell $400 machines that make a profit early on.

So next gen was already limited to begin with. It reminds me of this chart, if you want graphical power, consoles have already fallen behind a long time ago.

Charts don't scare me, I'm not afraid it's Sony and ms who should be afraid, I'm simply ironing out what needs to be on next gen consoles and if they can't deliver that then it's a loss on them! There's a reason we call them next gen and they need to live to that expectation!
 

Shangounchained

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Npc are not repeAted.
They are a culT with same haircut for mens and women, but the face are actually different if you look at the 2 bald guy in first gameplay trailer.
I watched those trailers alot, and they do look repeated it's not that I blame naughtu dog it's simply the ps4's memory limitation and time budget
 

GymWolf

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I watched those trailers alot, and they do look repeated it's not that I blame naughtu dog it's simply the ps4's memory limitation and time budget
Look at their face, at least the men are different.

I will post some gif later.
 

JordanN

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Charts don't scare me, I'm not afraid it's Sony and ms who should be afraid, I'm simply ironing out what needs to be on next gen consoles and if they can't deliver that then it's a loss on them! There's a reason we call them next gen and they need to live to that expectation!
They're "next gen" because they're the successor to the previous consoles. Otherwise, do you consider the Nintendo Switch to have the same power/graphics as the PS4/XBO?

It's no loss to Sony/MS. PS4 sold 100 million adopting the same strategy of selling a profitable machine. They're not going to abandon that next generation to sell $3000 boxes instead.
 

Shangounchained

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I didn’t think systems these days did sprites. I thought they were all flat polygons?
A sprite is simply a flat polygon with an alpha texture on it, you see it everywhere ever since 3d gaming, on smoke particles, grass dirt muzzle flash blood water splashes! You name it.
 
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Shangounchained

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The
They're "next gen" because they're the successor to the previous consoles. Otherwise, do you consider the Nintendo Switch to have the same power/graphics as the PS4/XBO?

It's no loss to Sony/MS. PS4 sold 100 million adopting the same strategy of selling a profitable machine. They're not going to abandon that next generation to sell $3000 boxes instead.
They sold 100 million PS4 because they showed a substantial leap it's 512mb from PS3 to 8gb ram on PS4 you can clearly see the difference when playing ps exclusive games like god of war uncharted spiderman so don't tell me the successor b.s,

So unless a ps5 can pull what the PS4 pulled then there is no reason for it and it won't sell that much, people would rather stick to current consoles or get a pc
 
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