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Nextgen consoles expected graphics improvents.

Shangounchained

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I'm not saying I hate 120 FPS or 60 mandatory I'm saying without improving on graphics fidelity and the problems I outlined above then it's pointless
They're getting better each generation. I don't know if I'm ready to call it on par with CGI yet.

Something like Avatar from 10 years ago still set a benchmark in terms of realistic vegetation that the above gif doesn't capture IMO.






On a PS4 this is a step forward n I'm sure next gen will get even closer to avatar!
 
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JordanN

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On a PS4 this is a step forward n I'm sure next gen will get even closer to avatar!
There will be Improvements to lighting and shading for sure. In terms of geometry count, I am 99% sure it wont actually differ much from this generation.

In VFX/CGI, every surface has a displacement map applied to it. Games sometimes use a similar technique (parallax occlusion mapping) but to the degree that Hollywood movies do them, it's much more limited.
 

Shangounchained

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There will be Improvements to lighting and shading for sure. In terms of geometry count, I am 99% sure it wont actually differ much from this generation.

In VFX/CGI, every surface has a displacement map applied to it. Games sometimes use a similar technique (parallax occlusion mapping) but to the degree that Hollywood movies do them, it's much more limited.
They do use displacement maps all over the place nowadays and it isn't just parallax occlusion go and play any triple a game from uncharted to red dead redemption displacement maps and tesselation are overly used especially in red dead 2, that's how they do snow defformation, mud, roads bricks it's all over the place, it's not so expensive this days,. And as far as polygon count you can check digital foundry's take on halo infinite it's got loads of polygons per frame everything is round!

What cgi has an upper hand is that they use nurbs which are infinitely round and u can't use nurbs that well in real time!
 
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VFXVeteran

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They do use displacement maps all over the place nowadays and it isn't just parallax occlusion go and play any triple a game from uncharted to red dead redemption displacement maps and tesselation are overly used especially in red dead 2, that's how they do snow defformation, mud, roads bricks it's all over the place, it's not so expensive this days,. And as far as polygon count you can check digital foundry's take on halo infinite it's got loads of polygons per frame everything is round!

What cgi has an upper hand is that they use nurbs which are infinitely round and u can't use nurbs that well in real time!
Dude where are you getting all this wrong information from? Name a single game released this year that uses displacement maps ALL over the place.
 

JordanN

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They do use displacement maps all over the place nowadays and it isn't just parallax occlusion go and play any triple a game from uncharted to red dead redemption displacement maps and tesselation are overly used especially in red dead 2,
Wireframes already exist of Uncharted 4 and as cool as they are, they're not using displacement.





Shangounchained said:
What cgi has an upper hand is that they use nurbs which are infinitely round and u can't use nurbs that well in real time!
Nurbs are from the 90s. Almost no one uses it these days.

What you meant to say is subdivison surfaces. Pixar had already pioneered the technique by the late 90s.



It's very important how the mesh is made.

They typically use all quads, not triangles. They're then subdivided 2 or 3 times (depending on how much polygons are needed and how close to the camera the object is).
They then use texture maps that are 16-bit or 32-bit that push the mesh in a certain direction to generate the surface detail like concrete or paint.

I actually have a real example of displacement mapping I did saved on my computer.

 
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Shangounchained

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Dude where are you getting all this wrong information from? Name a single game released this year that uses displacement maps ALL over the place.
Red dead redemption 2 go watch the tech on digital foundry, and it's not only that it's alot of games ever since this generation started, displacement maps is very old technique bro really really old! To show how stupid you are here's call of duty ghost tech, one of the first games to come out this gen
 

Shangounchained

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Red dead redemption 2 go watch the tech on digital foundry, and it's not only that it's alot of games ever since this generation started, displacement maps is very old technique bro really really old! To show how stupid you are here's call of duty ghost tech, one of the first games to come out this gen
They've used displacement maps since Xbox 360 and ps3, the 360 even had hardware tesselation featured on it's GPU
 

JordanN

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They've used displacement maps since Xbox 360 and ps3, the 360 even had hardware tesselation featured on it's GPU
Hardware tessellation was more of a meme back then. The performance was always awful and in some cases, it was completely broken.

It wasn't until DirectX 11 era graphics cards came out that tessellation support looked more feasible.
 

Shangounchained

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Hardware tessellation was more of a meme back then. The performance was always awful and in some cases, it was completely broken.

It wasn't until DirectX 11 era graphics cards came out that tessellation support looked more feasible.
Not really gran turismo 6 in PS3 uses adaptive tesselation on cars and Xbox 360 used it for a number of games though not to modern qualities but it was used, it's just that nowadays people take it for granted cause it's everywhere
 

JordanN

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Shangounchained

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The aren't using it on the buildungs u posted doesn't mean they aren't using it somewhere else on uncharted 4 and I showed u a video of call of duty ghosts using displacement maps and somehow your avoiding it! Here gt6 adaptive tesselation. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/927750-playstation-3/66201819

 
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JordanN

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The aren't using it on the buildungs u posted doesn't mean they aren't using it somewhere else on uncharted 4
It means they're not using it for the entire environment then, if at all.

Shangounchained said:
and I showed u a video of call of duty ghosts using displacement maps
Cross-gen game. And tessellation was only used in the PC version.


Shangounchained said:
Since it's a racing game, it's not really an impressive feat, especially since other games have came out that practically dump the hi poly car models in game anyway.
So it's still a meme.
 
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Shangounchained

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It means they're not using it for the entire environment then.


Cross-gen game. And tessellation was only used in the PC version.



Since it's a racing game, it's not really an impressive feat, especially since other games have came out that practically dump the hi poly car models in game anyway.
So it's still a meme.
Tesselation in call of duty ghosts was used on the PS4 and Xbox one literally so stop making fake information out your arse mate!

And secondly it's pointless to use displacement maps all over the place even movies don't do that it's ridiculous and it's not what I meant, grow up and stop acting like a 5 year old.
 
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Shangounchained

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JordanN

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Tesselation in call of duty ghosts was used on the PS4 and Xbox one literally so stop making fake information out your arse mate!
Can you show me a tech article that says it's in the console version?

Gamingbolt said:
That’s not the case with the PC version though. Whichever way we look at it – whether the PS4 and Xbox One featured just enough details to have a solid frame rate or not – the PC version looks good, while achieving much more. DirectX 11.1 is in full force with tessellation, ambient lightning – including light shafts – and horizon-based ambient occlusion which lends a shading effect to everything. The metal components of your gun are cracked and significantly worn out, highlighted by the texture resolution. Little touches such as being able to see your character’s reflection in a scope on your gun add a good amount of immersion to the experience.

Thankfully, the next gen versions look better than current gen, competing quite well with the PC version which takes advantage of several Nvidia and DirectX 11 exclusive features.

It clearly says the PC version looked the best and that the DX11 features are exclusive.


Shangounchained said:
And secondly it's pointless to use displacement maps all over the place even movies don't do that it's ridiculous and it's not what I meant, grow up and stop acting like a 5 year old.
Lol, so how am I pulling it off then? And I don't have a supercomputer either, just a $200 6-core CPU.

It's not pointless. If you can give any object a bump/normal map, then it would be highly beneficial to also give them displacement as well.

For photorealism, it makes a huge difference in terms of how light interacts within a scene. See the shadow on the right matches the silhouette of the crumpled ball instead of being perfectly round.




Because games are meant to played instead of being photorealistic videos you watch, they do not have the same goals that VFX/CGI animation are all about.
 
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Shangounchained

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Can you show me a tech article that says it's in the console version?



It clearly says the PC version looked the best and that the DX11 features are exclusive.



Lol, so how am I pulling it off then? And I don't have a supercomputer either, just a $200 6-core CPU.

It's not pointless. If you can give any object a bump/normal map, then it would be highly beneficial to also give them displacement as well.

For photorealism, it makes a huge difference in terms of how light interacts within a scene. See the shadow on the right matches the silhouette of the crumpled ball instead of being perfectly round.




Because games are meant to played instead of being photorealistic videos you watch, they do not have the same goals that VFX/CGI animation are all about.
Bro your either eally dumb and don't know anything your talking about and this bickering is tiring me so please save us both some time and go argue with urself cause Ur really looking dumber now!
 

Lister

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Bro your either eally dumb and don't know anything your talking about and this bickering is tiring me so please save us both some time and go argue with urself cause Ur really looking dumber now!
Yeah, I'm not sure you're being objective there with that assessment. There's definitely someone looking dumber, but it isn't him.
 

Shangounchained

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I actually make 3D Computer Graphics, what do you do?
Bro the call of duty ghosts tech demo I just posted was from the Xbox one presentation, https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ubergizmo.com/2013/05/call-of-duty-ghost-tech-trailer/amp/


And I've done computer graphics for years since I was 12 and I'm now 26 so bro stop wasting my time and do Ur research before you come online and start blanking about, displacement mapping is an old technique and it's used clearly in 90 percent of games today
 
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JordanN

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Bro the call of duty ghosts tech demo I just posted was from the Xbox one presentation, https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ubergizmo.com/2013/05/call-of-duty-ghost-tech-trailer/amp/
That article is dated 05/21/2013.

The one I posted is from Dec. 11th 2013.

Since yours came from the Xbox One presentation, it could easily have been from old devkits, it was a fluff piece, or they could have removed it at launch. Especially since your own article even says it's "only practical on Xbox One" which is blatantly wrong since it's on PC.


Shangounchained said:
And I've done computer graphics for years since I was 12 and I'm now 26 so bro stop wasting my time and do Ur research before you come online and start blanking about, displacement mapping is an old technique and it's used clearly in 90 percent of games today
Why don't you show me a game you've made?
 
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Shangounchained

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That article is dated 05/21/2013.

The one I posted is from Dec. 11th 2013.

Since yours came from the Xbox One presentation, it could easily have been from old devkits, it was a fluff piece, or they could have removed it at launch. Especially since your own article even says it's "only practical on Xbox One" which is blatantly wrong since it's on PC.



Why don't you show me a game you've made?
haven't u seen this or are u blind



Bro I just showed u tech demos on Xbox one n u e completely avoided them so there's no point in this argument it's Ur dumb ego running wild now so grow up.
 

Samsomite

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Bro the call of duty ghosts tech demo I just posted was from the Xbox one presentation, https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ubergizmo.com/2013/05/call-of-duty-ghost-tech-trailer/amp/


And I've done computer graphics for years since I was 12 and I'm now 26 so bro stop wasting my time and do Ur research before you come online and start blanking about, displacement mapping is an old technique and it's used clearly in 90 percent of games today
Your blatant namecalling and throwing fits of frustration gives an impression you are 14 years old, tops.

Just a heads up before other people start reporting this behavior as well.
 

JordanN

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haven't u seen this or are u blind

Bro I just showed u tech demos on Xbox one n u e completely avoided them so there's no point in this argument it's Ur dumb ego running wild now so grow up.
A tech demo does not represent the final product.

Your article is old. It did not launch that way on Xbox One so it's pointless to claim it when it's not actually playable.
 

VFXVeteran

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Red dead redemption 2 go watch the tech on digital foundry, and it's not only that it's alot of games ever since this generation started, displacement maps is very old technique bro really really old! To show how stupid you are here's call of duty ghost tech, one of the first games to come out this gen
RDR2 came out last year. Next, they used more parallax occlusion mapping than displacement mapping. Is that the only game you can think of?

Lastly, while displacement mapping is old, it increases the polygon budget by a LOT. Games still sacrifice poly counts with some assets. It's not a "free" feature and is very expensive. Metro: Exodus uses it a lot and so does Tomb Raider, but that's not anywhere near "displacement is used all the time and all over the place" as you put it. It's never put on leaves, hair, glass, pictures, rugs, weapons, vehicles, clothing, etc.. you might see it on some walls, ground and trees. The need for more polys can't be stated enough. Just remember that as you introduce more polys, everything else has to run per pixel -- which means all the shaders have to run again. And most games are shader bound these days.
 
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Shangounchained

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A tech demo does not represent the final product.

Your article is old. It did not launch that way on Xbox One so it's pointless to claim it when it's not actually playable.
Ok mate goodnight it's enough u can keep Ur thick head it's pointless arguing.
 

Shangounchained

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RDR2 came out last year. Next, they used more parallax occlusion mapping than displacement mapping. Is that the only game you can think of?

Lastly, while displacement mapping is old, it increases the polygon budget by a LOT. Games still sacrifice poly counts with some assets. It's not a "free" feature and is very expensive. Metro: Exodus uses it a lot and so does Tomb Raider, but that's not anywhere near "displacement is used all the time and all over the place" as you put it.
When I say all over the place doesn't mean displacement maps are used in everything it simply means it's overly used, I never meant they use it to render grass and eye lashes!
 

Greedings

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This really isn't the thread for me, but man, I just don't care. Gimmie that 60 FPS standard, you can do pixel graphics if you want. I just want a smooth game with fast response times.
 

VFXVeteran

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When I say all over the place doesn't mean displacement maps are used in everything it simply means it's overly used, I never meant they use it to render grass and eye lashes!
But it's not overly used. How can representing the real world more accurately be overly used? All GPUs are triangle limited because they have to shade those triangles and shading has become significantly more complex.

You are arguing over nothing. Why?
 

Shangounchained

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When I say all over the place doesn't mean displacement maps are used in everything it simply means it's overly used, I never meant they use it to render grass and eye lashes!
But it's not overly used. How can representing the real world more accurately be overly used? All GPUs are triangle limited because they have to shade those triangles and shading has become significantly more complex.
The real world doesn't use polygons mate it's atoms and CG simply imitates how it looks when I've just explained that it's overly used because it's in alot of titles today! You can clearly see it, and lastly Ur the one arguing over nothing it's a pointless argument and you've since brought weak points at first you said displacement maps aren't used in consoles and I proved you wrong yet u still persists and make weak arguments just to prove a none existent point.
 

Shangounchained

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I'm nominating S Shangounchained for troll unless he can back this statement up.



I asked in a previous post to list your experience and you've haven't shown any.
Why should I waste my energy showing my CV to someone who ignores every evidence we literally went from you saying displacement maps aren't used on consoles to me showing my CV, what are you a professional argument master or a passport check worker!
 

Shangounchained

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But you have time to post here all day? What the actual fuck, guy?

You are either a troll or lying about your past.
Are you his sidekick! Is it batman and robin, do u need my CV aswell, bunch of losers! U can console each other but I proved my points and diverting the discussion isn't helping you. My past has nothing to do with displacement maps being used on consoles.
 

DGrayson

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Red dead redemption 2 go watch the tech on digital foundry, and it's not only that it's alot of games ever since this generation started, displacement maps is very old technique bro really really old! To show how stupid you are here's call of duty ghost tech, one of the first games to come out this gen

Why cant you make this exact same post without the stupid part? YOu have tons of warnings too. Dont do this.