NextGen Wheels peripherals PS4 and Xbox One Thread: NeoGaf Wheel Club Updates in OP

Aug 23, 2009
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Today I heard from the unofficial source how MadCatz is discontinuing its XboxOne official wheel.

I have no means to verify that and no search gave me any result, so take it with the grain of salt.

Pretty bad news if true, the wheel and overall concept looked promising (despite being a MadCatz).
Not surprising seeing that amazon ship date keep moving back further and further from the original release date set off tons of warning bells in my head.

But it was going to fail anyway. What madman would have paid the $400 for the MadCatz wheel when the Thrustmaster is the same price.
 
Jul 31, 2009
5,777
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Philadelphia PA, USA
Not surprising seeing that amazon ship date keep moving back further and further from the original release date set off tons of warning bells in my head.

But it was going to fail anyway. What madman would have paid the $400 for the MadCatz wheel when the Thrustmaster is the same price.
I mean think about it. There is 1 racing game for the XB1 and anyone who wanted a wheel for Forza 5 probably got the Thrustmaster.

The whole situation is shit though. It is amazing how quickly everything went downhill. It is a shame MS and Sony (mostly MS) and the wheel manufacturers can't just agree on one standard.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Sep 10, 2007
61,796
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1,040
Toronto/Guelph
There doesn't seem to be anything to confirm, which is the problem. I get that Logitech doesn't have to do it, they're not obliged to and they dropped out of the console peripheral business, but it would be nice to give their customers a nod.
Yeah, I totally understand. I think a lot of good will would be generated by either company if they just did the work though.

Then again, I say this as a person who also has a 150 dollar fightstick that is useless on PS4 as well, so I don't have much hope.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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Montréal
It's not much but I got a reply from Thomas (Fanatec's CEO) this morning on his blog...

If there is a technical and legal way to make our current wheels compatible with next gen consoles you can rest assured that we will do it. It was never the question if WE want to do it or not and I rather continue to sell what we have instead of developing something new. There is a lot of things going on in the background and I am working for my customers and not against them.
If we "force" somebody to buy something new then there is a very high risk that we just lost him to the competition...
 
Jul 13, 2007
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www.gtsurgeons.com
There must be some connection in between the fact how Thrustmaster is the only wheel manufacturer so far that has officially signed the Official PS4 Licensee deal with Sony and fact how their wheels are still the only wheels that are discussed as having PS4 support.

One thing stood out in my backhead, so I cheked the (my own) OP to realize how one "small" thing changed in the meantime without many noticed: 10 months ago, the semi-official and official wording was how particular USB wheels will work on PS4 if fhe developers will code the support in their games.

Few months ago the "condition" suddenly changed, and we start to hear how wheels will work if the wheel manufacturers supply the developers with the PS4 SDK.

Which is really a significant difference.

I have no sources to back up my claim but previous events and such change - together with the aformentioned THS licensing deal - probably really have to do with double licensing of some kind: first, the licensing from the manufacturer's side to the SDK/API holder, AKA Immersion Co. (Logitech being absolute #1 contender with their crazy share in market of already sold wheels, probably close to 90%) where I see the potential issue regarding PS4 as the new platform. Immersion can easily see how previous settlement with Sony for PS2/PS3 does not cover PS4, and they want their patent/license share. Which is two-level issue:

1. In 2007 Sony paid +$200 million for TouchSense patents compensations for DS2 and DS3 controllers, with Logitech wheels (official PS2/PS3 wheels of that era) being covered with the compensation. After that anyone can understand how Sony maybe decided to nullify themselves out of the such deals, with pulling out from licensing psrticular SDK/API as the platform holder for crazy amounts of money; and

2. While the main licensee of such deal - Logitech - is simply killed its own wheel division (check OP for linked details) in 2010/2011 and have no plans in renewing that particular division. So, Logitech simply have no business interest in licensing either Imerssion for TouchSense to be used on PS4 (they will not produce any PS4 wheel and why would they license for the wheels they've sold already?), nor they have any interest to license PS4 as a console (as Thrustmaster did) for the same reason.

And 2a. Also, the idea how "game developers" should see will they develop their game around particular support is no-go, since it would mean how particular developer should pay for such licenses - which I really do not see happening from the cost-perspective.

Another issue is the same problem we (as the owners of the wheels) recently had with the whole Microsoft (or)deal regarding support for the "legacy" wheels. Once we bought out wheels, we will not buy new ones. If Microsoft allowed us to use our legacy Fanatecs on XboxOne, Thrustmaster (and petty MadCatz, god bless their poor souls) coulnd't sold their new models to the main target-audience: people that actually want to play with the wheels. Because they already bought them. For a high price.

With changes in approach by Sony it seems to me how such complexion could be in works at SCE. Maybe they simply don't want to accept the fact they need to pay to Immersion for licensing the products from manufacturer that is not SCE licensee anymore and they've practically allready paid for twice before (in examples of the Logitech DFP and G25 models who are around since 2004/2005, be blessed forever, in both PS2 and PS3 era). Logitech have no interest to pay and - here we are. Nowhere.

I can see why THR went into deal with SCE. They have their own SDK/API, they are free of Immersion patents (which is a plus for Sony as well, since there is no middle-licenseer) and they are infact, a both PlayStation and Gran Turismo official product since 2010 (T500RS is the only official GT wheel since GT5 and also the only FFB wheel that have PS button since Logitech DFGT which was discountinued forever in 2011).

I would love to see some postive development - as I am the proud and happy owner of G25, CSRE and CSW - but all of these complexities give me a little hope at this point.
 
Jul 31, 2009
5,777
0
0
Philadelphia PA, USA
There must be some connection in between the fact how Thrustmaster is the only wheel manufacturer so far that has officially signed the Official PS4 Licensee deal with Sony and fact how their wheels are still the only wheels that are discussed as having PS4 support.

One thing stood out in my backhead, so I cheked the (my own) OP to realize how one "small" thing changed in the meantime without many noticed: 10 months ago, the semi-official and official wording was how particular USB wheels will work on PS4 if fhe developers will code the support in their games.

Few months ago the "condition" suddenly changed, and we start to hear how wheels will work if the wheel manufacturers supply the developers with the PS4 SDK.

Which is really a significant difference.

I have no sources to back up my claim but previous events and such change - together with the aformentioned THS licensing deal - probably really have to do with double licensing of some kind: first, the licensing from the manufacturer's side to the SDK/API holder, AKA Immersion Co. (Logitech being absolute #1 contender with their crazy share in market of already sold wheels, probably close to 90%) where I see the potential issue regarding PS4 as the new platform. Immersion can easily see how previous settlement with Sony for PS2/PS3 does not cover PS4, and they want their patent/license share. Which is two-level issue:

1. In 2007 Sony paid +$200 million for TouchSense patents compensations for DS2 and DS3 controllers, with Logitech wheels (official PS2/PS3 wheels of that era) being covered with the compensation. After that anyone can understand how Sony maybe decided to nullify themselves out of the such deals, with pulling out from licensing psrticular SDK/API as the platform holder for crazy amounts of money; and

2. While the main licensee of such deal - Logitech - is simply killed its own wheel division (check OP for linked details) in 2010/2011 and have no plans in renewing that particular division. So, Logitech simply have no business interest in licensing either Imerssion for TouchSense to be used on PS4 (they will not produce any PS4 wheel and why would they license for the wheels they've sold already?), nor they have any interest to license PS4 as a console (as Thrustmaster did) for the same reason.

And 2a. Also, the idea how "game developers" should see will they develop their game around particular support is no-go, since it would mean how particular developer should pay for such licenses - which I really do not see happening from the cost-perspective.

Another issue is the same problem we (as the owners of the wheels) recently had with the whole Microsoft (or)deal regarding support for the "legacy" wheels. Once we bought out wheels, we will not buy new ones. If Microsoft allowed us to use our legacy Fanatecs on XboxOne, Thrustmaster (and petty MadCatz, god bless their poor souls) coulnd't sold their new models to the main target-audience: people that actually want to play with the wheels. Because they already bought them. For a high price.

With changes in approach by Sony it seems to me how such complexion could be in works at SCE. Maybe they simply don't want to accept the fact they need to pay to Immersion for licensing the products from manufacturer that is not SCE licensee anymore and they've practically allready paid for twice before (in examples of the Logitech DFP and G25 models who are around since 2004/2005, be blessed forever, in both PS2 and PS3 era). Logitech have no interest to pay and - here we are. Nowhere.

I can see why THR went into deal with SCE. They have their own SDK/API, they are free of Immersion patents (which is a plus for Sony as well, since there is no middle-licenseer) and they are infact, a both PlayStation and Gran Turismo official product since 2010 (T500RS is the only official GT wheel since GT5 and also the only FFB wheel that have PS button since Logitech DFGT which was discountinued forever in 2011).

I would love to see some postive development - as I am the proud and happy owner of G25, CSRE and CSW - but all of these complexities give me a little hope at this point.
Does Fanatec (not in Logitech mode) use Immersion patents? If not, I have no idea what their problem is hardware wise or software wise (not including business wise).
 
Jul 13, 2007
6,383
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920
www.gtsurgeons.com
Under which "name and image" are Fanatec wheels recognized in PC mode in the PC games? If they are recognized by "Fanatec" then they have their own PC API/SDK. But it also means such SDK is not endorsed by PS platform(s), so that is why emulated Logitech kicks in. All my guesses, naturally.
 
yes, immersion is the name of that company I wrote about in my previous post here.
I thought of this situation last summer.. my logic failed to produce an outcome I wanted, so with forza 5 listed high in my book of priorities, I gave my fanatec to a friend of mine and went with the thrustmaster xbone/pc since last december.
on the playstation front,since the are still no racing games out, everybody can hope for a different outcome regarding immersion compatibility, but for me personally it would do it simply if thrustmaster tx1 works also in ps4 under the ps4 thrustmaster driver.
I am going to have to wait until october to find out though.
 
Oct 12, 2011
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Germany

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Apr 8, 2005
15,737
1
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twitter.com
They say they'll address PS4 support in a different blog entry 'cause that is an entirely different situation.
Again, G27 support will be crucial for me sticking with PC racers only (that would suck hard), I'm not that hopeful anymore but I imagine if Fanatec was to work out a solution (doubt it) then the G27 would work too since Fanatec wheels on PS3 was really just G27's emulation via firmware afaik.
 
They say they'll address PS4 support in a different blog entry 'cause that is an entirely different situation.
Again, G27 support will be crucial for me sticking with PC racers only (that would suck hard), I'm not that hopeful anymore but I imagine if Fanatec was to work out a solution (doubt it) then the G27 would work too since Fanatec wheels on PS3 was really just G27's emulation via firmware afaik.
but didn't rushy already answer in a tweet a couple of days ago that there is no fanatec compatibility on ps4?
https://twitter.com/Rushy33/status/465076124280954880
 

MGR

Member
Mar 25, 2009
556
0
0
It's not Sony enabling Fanatec compatibility. It's Fanatec who need to provide drivers to Sony. Just like Logitech.
Poor wording on my part. My point is there are licencing costs to be negotiated too. It's not just a question of Fanatec's r&d investment.
 
Aug 27, 2009
20,139
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0
Montréal
So Fanatec posted that on their blog yesterday...that sure look like a PS4 rim for the CSW.... I just wish they would support the Porsche wheel owners too instead of just dumping them on the curb and going exclusive with the CSW.


And here is the next one: Say hello to the ROUND 1 WHEEL RIM for your ClubSport wheel.

A
lot of people are waiting for small, round and light GT rim and here it
is. Fine, smooth leather, plenty of buttons and a diameter of just 270
mm.
Available this summer for 349,95 Euro / USD (incl. tax / excl. tax)

Do you already see where we are going? ;-) We have still not shown you everything so what do you think will be next?
 
Aug 9, 2009
13,183
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UK
So Fanatec posted that on their blog yesterday...that sure look like a PS4 rim for the CSW.... I just wish they would support the Porsche wheel owners too instead of just dumping them on the curb and going exclusive with the CSW.
Yeah, you can clearly see the Square and Triangle buttons. Good news indeed.

Hang on a sec - the GT2 won't be supported? Why not?
 
Aug 27, 2009
20,139
0
0
Montréal
Yeah, you can clearly see the Square and Triangle buttons. Good news indeed.

Hang on a sec - the GT2 won't be supported? Why not?
Well we don't know for sure yet but so far they've only talked about the CSW wheel everywhere for the last 6months-1year. They still sell the Porsche wheels but you would think that they don't exist anymore if you only followed them on facebook and their blog. They clearly want to force people to buy the CSW wheel which is bullshit. I already bought a PWTS, a CSR and a set of CSP.... I don't want to pay another 1000$ for a wheel.
 
Aug 9, 2009
13,183
4
0
UK
Well we don't know for sure yet but so far they've only talked about the CSW wheel everywhere for the last 6months-1year. They still sell the Porsche wheels but you would think that they don't exist anymore if you only followed them on facebook and their blog. They clearly want to force people to buy the CSW wheel which is bullshit. I already bought a PWTS, a CSR and a set of CSP.... I don't want to pay another 1000$ for a wheel.
But if PS4 drivers work for the CSW, wouldn't they also work for the Porsche wheels? The protocols are the same, aren't they?
 
Aug 27, 2009
20,139
0
0
Montréal
But if PS4 drivers work for the CSW, wouldn't they also work for the Porsche wheels? The protocols are the same, aren't they?
In theory. Unless Fanatec makes actual Fanatec drivers for the PS4 instead of piggybacking on Logitech then they are free to only support the CSW. It would'nt be the first bs thing Thomas does.

I think that right now our best hope is for the TX to be supported on PS4. But even then the default rim is shitty so you need to buy an extra rim (That is not that amazing either but better than the default one).
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,901
0
0
Windsor, UK
The whole wheel legacy thing is stopping me going next gen. First company to fix it gets my cash.
Not me, because I'm an idiot that jumps in day one, but I can completely see that point of view. And I don think you would be alone. There will be lots of people that have invested significant amounts in a wheel setup and will not want that investment to be useless on the new consoles.

It might be a small group, but if wither Sony, MS or logitech sort this out, they'll get a lot of support from them
 
Oct 11, 2009
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Flat1 Rim for ClubSport Wheel

http://www.fanatec.com/forum/discussion/90/announcing-the-flat1-wheel-rim-for-your-clubsport-wheel

People are still screaming for more so here comes the FLAT1 wheel rim for the ClubSport Wheel.

Just like the Round1 it is a small rim with just 270 mm but this one is covered with suede leather. We also added some more buttons and a tuning display. If you compare the last rims we announced you might get a clue what they all have in common.

Available this summer for 349,95 Euro / USD (incl. tax / excl. tax)

And we are not done yet...
 
Aug 23, 2013
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0
Logitech support might be the deciding factor if I'll get my PS4 in the next few months or if I delay it to favor a PC upgrade. I just got an wheel last year and I got it after they suggested PS4 would support them. I have absolutely no interest in Driveclub without support for legacy wheels.
 
Aug 27, 2009
20,139
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0
Montréal
Hmmmm

Thomas posted this on the iracing forum
"Like mentioned before, we are working on a product line
below the CSW and above the CSW. Direct drive is the way to go and it should be
no problem for us to offer a wheel which offers better functionality at a lower
price. But it will still be significantly above the CSW.


Of course all rims will be compatible to all base units so
that our modular system makes most sense and the user can decide between three
different quality and price levels in all product categories: wheel base, wheel
rim, pedals, shifter, cockpits."

So to summarise they are working on a better base and a cheaper base and all products will be compatible with one another.
 
Feb 20, 2009
4,623
1
0
Vegas
So, the Thrustmaster T500 RS on PS4... Since there's no headset port on it, how will I talk with friends while playing racing games? Will I be able to use a regular controller for that or would that sign me out? Should I think about buying a wireless headset like the Pulse?
You can use any bluetooth headset. I tested my crappy $20 one and it works fine.
 
Sep 13, 2009
4,967
0
665
Bedford, England
problem is my CSW is such an awesome package and honestly beautiful wheel I think they are not far off being worth it. the Alcantara GT wheel on me CSW is a thing of beauty :)
Yeah I don't think this will be competing with the CSW, I'd take a guess at $1000+, when Fanatec are putting high end rims out I'm sure they are aimed at a different level of user.
 

SMOK3Y

Generous Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,075
4
0
Brisbane
yeah CSW base, GT wheel & V2 CS pedals in AU are $1250 I think in US about $8-900 I had a G27 before this & just the GT wheel on the CSW is basically heavier than G27 wheel & pedals lol
 
Mar 26, 2005
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0
1,125
Yeah, I'd expect it to come in under what the other guys are offering. Who knows though. That's going under the assumption he can have them built in China. If he has to build them in Germany like the other companies do in their respective countries (UK,US,JP), clearly there won't be any savings.

Direct drive for the masses would be wicked. Let's hope!
 
Sep 13, 2009
4,967
0
665
Bedford, England
Anyone know if the TX's 458 Italia rim works with the T500 on PS3/4?

edit: Have both the TX and T500RS now.

There's really not a lot to between them. The T500RS is slightly better built imo, heavier ffb with a gritty feeling with some drag whilst turning. It's not bad but is noticeable. The TX goes lighter, almost no drag and a smoother belt mechanism but the vibration from the brushless motors is distracting, the base itself, despite the smaller case sounds hollow, really could use some dampening. Mines started to creak, don't know i it's a widespread problem.

Both good wheels though.
 
Nov 13, 2013
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I am not sure it is the issue, my personal opinion is how it have to do with the licensing, but from what I read it looks like Sony decided to move the licencing from the platform to the actual wheel makers.

The real issue with the support - aforementioned licensing - is not about Logitech, Fanatec or Thrustmaster - but about Immersion Co. and their TouchSense API SDK.

Sony settled initial 2005-2006 dispute with Immersion for 200+ million $ in 2007 and resolved the issue for compatibility for PS2 and PS3 platform, with probable more money being paid to Imerssion through PS3 lifecycle.

T500 uses Thrustmaster's own HEART API and THM signed PS4 licensing with Sony back in 2013, so they are not influenced with the Immersion licensing. But ALL Logitech wheels are, since ALL of them are using TouchSense API since 2000.

All these careful wording how "wheelbmakers have to decide about the support" looks like the Sony moved the ball to their court regarding actual wheel support and licensing. It is very interesting development all around.
so you mean if i buy a t500 today i'll be safe for the next years to come?
this is all really confusing, i want to buy one but i am scared. now my csr elite is gone i really need a new wheel.