Ninja Gaiden II Beta Impressions

~Devil Trigger~

In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Jan 4, 2007
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Draft said:
The camera hate is really just out of control.

I imagine at this point it's rationalization from people too limp wristed or slow of mind to tackle the intense action of Ninja Gaiden. Bubububu the camera got me killed!

It's not a perfect camera, or even a great camera, and it does occasionally get itself into a spot that's less than conducive to, you know, seeing stuff. But the idea that you need to wrestle with it is asinine. It generally affords a good view of the action, and the snapping it behind Ryu is an inelegant but effective remedy for when it wonks out.

Go ahead, quote this post and my avatar. It will help alleviate the shame that lives deep in your heart.
but when you have to "snap it back" behind Ryu a bunch of times in one fight scene, its a problem

look the cam is THE biggest complaint about the series, no its not "camera hate", its bad fucking camera. Its managable most of the time, the game is not unplayable, but its pure ass at times.

its not bitchin', its something they need to improve on, and hoping NG2 does
 
Mar 30, 2005
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~Devil Trigger~ said:
but when you have to "snap it back" behind Ryu a bunch of times in one fight scene, its a problem

look the cam is THE biggest complaint about the series, no its not "camera hate", its bad fucking camera. Its managable most of the time, the game is not unplayable, but its pure ass at times.

its not bitchin', its something they need to improve on, and hoping NG2 does
It's never that bad.

You don't have to snap it back that much.

But even if you do, it's an instant snap. Very responsive.

Besides, you move around SO MUCH in NG fights that the camera that the camera is always shifting, and it generally shifts to a position which provides a favorable view of the enemy you are trying to fight.

The camera is only a true pain when you are trying to aim at something very far away, like the radio tower boss, or during jumping puzzles.
 

USD

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On the whole camera issue, I think it's impossible for the game to have the camera some people expect it to have. The nature of the gameplay makes having a camera that captures all the action but still gives you a good view of the closeup action nearly impossible. Ninja Gaiden and Ninja Gaiden II or both very high-paced with heavy emphasis on horizontal movement, compared to other action games that put more stress on vertical movement (something like DMC) or relatively little movement at all.

And after having gone some 12+ hours of not playing NGII, I really need this game. It really felt so good playing it. The demo and home release can't come soon enough, but I'm willing to wait until Team Ninja finishes working on the game's issues.
 

~Devil Trigger~

In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Jan 4, 2007
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Draft said:
It's never that bad.

You don't have to snap it back that much.

But even if you do, it's an instant snap. Very responsive.

Besides, you move around SO MUCH in NG fights that the camera that the camera is always shifting, and it generally shifts to a position which provides a favorable view of the enemy you are trying to fight.

The camera is only a true pain when you are trying to aim at something very far away, like the radio tower boss, or during jumping puzzles.
Which is part of the problem too, the cam can barely keep up with Ryu and other fast moving enemies, and it tries to stay close to Ryu sometimes. Its fine most of the time, but in some combat and platforming situations, ewww

edit: I dont expect a cam to show me all the infomation in a scene in a shot, thats impossible. No game has that.
 
Jul 30, 2007
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I had some issues with it in the initial release of NG, but then Hurricane Pack 1 or 2 added full camera control, which fixed almost everything. Is it difficult to judge how you should jump on some parts? does the camera occasionally give me an unfavorable angle in a fight? yeah, definitely.
but most 3D games that have a dynamic camera have these same problems.
 
May 17, 2006
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USD said:
I could see it getting a bit repetitive (it was mostly fight enemy group, move on repeat, with the occasional minor fetch-item puzzle), but I had a blast playing it.
Thanks for the impressions.

I see this part as a good thing. NG for me is all about the combat. I absolutely love the combat in NGB, but my overall impression of the game went down because of other aspects of the game (awful platforming/puzzling/first-person archery - the camera wouldn't be so much of a problem if I didn't have to deal with those elements). Just give me fight after fight, Team Ninja! NG DS did a good job in terms of pacing (mainly combat, minimal platforming/puzzling). I didn't so much mind the camera during combat.
 
Jan 3, 2008
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~Devil Trigger~ said:
but when you have to "snap it back" behind Ryu a bunch of times in one fight scene, its a problem

look the cam is THE biggest complaint about the series, no its not "camera hate", its bad fucking camera. Its managable most of the time, the game is not unplayable, but its pure ass at times.

its not bitchin', its something they need to improve on, and hoping NG2 does
At least you can snap it back behind Ryu, with DMC1,2,3 and some sections in 4, you don't have that option and must deal with the horrible camera angle that they give. I remember the first time I fought Phantom in DMC1. That boss was the easiest boss in the whole game, but my God was that fucking camera horrible. I swear the camera was your fucking worst enemy.
 

jett

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Renji Zabimaru said:
At least you can snap it back behind Ryu, with DMC1,2,3 and some sections in 4, you don't have that option and must deal with the horrible camera angle that they give. I remember the first time I fought Phantom in DMC1. That boss was the easiest boss in the whole game, but my God was that fucking camera horrible. I swear the camera was your fucking worst enemy.
I had close to no camera issues with DMC4. In comparison Sigma's camera is oh so horrible.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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I rarely snap the camera in fights in Ninja Gaiden.

Have some depth perception with the environment.

Perhaps years of Dynasty Warriors has trained me to realize where the enemies are on all sides around me. Not just in front.
 
Jan 3, 2008
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jett said:
I had close to no camera issues with DMC4. In comparison Sigma's camera is oh so horrible.
Of course you didn't. DMC4 camera is atrocious at times. Especially when you are running one direction and the camera will switch it and you will start running the other direction. Very annoying .
 
Dec 7, 2006
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Renji Zabimaru said:
Of course you didn't. DMC4 camera is atrocious at times. Especially when you are running one direction and the camera will switch it and you will start running the other direction. Very annoying .
Actually, I didn't really have a problem with the DMC4 camera.

Backtracking through almost the entire game on the other hand..
 
May 4, 2006
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USD said:
On the whole camera issue, I think it's impossible for the game to have the camera some people expect it to have. The nature of the gameplay makes having a camera that captures all the action but still gives you a good view of the closeup action nearly impossible.
How about Team Ninja and Ninja Theory have a pow-wow? The camera in Heavenly Sword was just about perfect.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Sep 25, 2005
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I'm playing NG: DS right now and would love a camera like that for the console games. I would prefer a pulled out camera ala GOW, DMC, or NG: DS to a camera like NG where I'm constantly fighting it, along with the enemies.
 
Oct 14, 2006
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i.imgur.com
Renji Zabimaru said:
Of course you didn't. DMC4 camera is atrocious at times. Especially when you are running one direction and the camera will switch it and you will start running the other direction. Very annoying .
Actually that only happens if you change direction yourself. So long as you hold the direction you were heading in before the angle change, you'd continue along that path.
 
Jan 30, 2008
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Linkzg said:
DMC1 to DMC3 (there was never a DMC2, strange thing Capcom did) was a pretty huge change gameplay wise.
You knw some people enjoyed DMC2.

WTF is everyones hangup with it?

NullPointer said:
How about Team Ninja and Ninja Theory have a pow-wow? The camera in Heavenly Sword was just about perfect.
Too bad the rest of the game was crap.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Jan 31, 2006
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Renji Zabimaru said:
At least you can snap it back behind Ryu, with DMC1,2,3 and some sections in 4, you don't have that option and must deal with the horrible camera angle that they give. I remember the first time I fought Phantom in DMC1. That boss was the easiest boss in the whole game, but my God was that fucking camera horrible. I swear the camera was your fucking worst enemy.
Only DMC1 didn't have the option. 2-4 allow you to center the camera with a click of the right stick.

Also, outside of the Phantom fight the fixed camera in DMC1 gave you perfect angles.
 
Oct 2, 2005
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U K Narayan said:
Regardless, I can envision it working really well.
It would not work in any way whatsoever. Getting attacked by enemies that you couldn't see behind you was a problem in Godhand. I can't even imagine how much worse the problem would be in a game with much faster and more mobile enemies.
 
Dec 30, 2004
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TheDuce22 said:
Its a non issue for fans of the series.
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Once I got past the first two bosses, I never paid anymore mind to the 'issue'. There's too much personal glee extracted from NG to let the learning curve for the camera deter anyone. If you were deterred, go back and try it again. Once you get into the game you'll become a believer.
 
Jun 3, 2005
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winter said:
It would not work in any way whatsoever. Getting attacked by enemies that you couldn't see behind you was a problem in Godhand. I can't even imagine how much worse the problem would be in a game with much faster and more mobile enemies.
God Hand had a radar. Also, enemies not visible in the camera were pretty easy to deal with.

When I envision a second-person-view in Ninja Gaiden, I envision it working really well. Just because you can't see it working well doesn't mean that it simply won't. Furthermore, with that statement - the same applies to my opinion.
 
Jan 30, 2008
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Oh c'mon guys...Why are so many people complaining about the camera? Just center it to Ryu's back by pressing the right trigger occasionally (It is still R, right? )...Integrate it more often into your gameplay; it becomes second nature...I have hardly had any problems with the camera because I always use the right trigger!

It's very tough to implement an excellent dynamic camera for a fast-paced action game like this...Dude...Ryu is so fuckin badass the game can't keep up with him :p
 
Jun 3, 2005
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KdoubleA said:
Oh c'mon guys...Why are so many people complaining about the camera? Just center it to Ryu's back by pressing the right trigger occasionally (It is still R, right? )...Integrate it more often into your gameplay; it becomes second nature...I have hardly had any problems with the camera because I always use the right trigger!

It's very tough to implement an excellent dynamic camera for a fast-paced action game like this...Dude...Ryu is so fuckin badass the game can't keep up with him :p
The camera is pretty easy to cope with. But I have to admit that the camera is prone to get stuck in odd places during boss battles. It was really annoying when I played (and beat) Master Ninja mode.

For the most part, the camera is pretty easy to deal with. One would argue that having to deal with it is a flaw itself, but -- come on, has there ever been a 3D action game that hasn't affected others enough to generate a negative opinion upon its own camera system? Ninja Gaiden's camera system does a decent enough job.
 

otake

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May 23, 2007
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the camera was the major problem, very disappointing that they haven't fixed it. it was barely acceptable on zigma (few games were out at that time).

team ninja has made a lot of money off this series, they've also had a lot of time to work on it. there's just no excuse for keeping a 5 year old flawed camera system.
 
Feb 27, 2005
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Renji Zabimaru said:
Of course you didn't. DMC4 camera is atrocious at times. Especially when you are running one direction and the camera will switch it and you will start running the other direction. Very annoying .
I actually didn't have that many camera problems in DMC4. Especially considering all enemies make auditory cues, lock-on which acts as a camera-recenter, not many problems.

As for the running in one direction, you just keep pushing the analog stick in the same direction, and Nero continues to run in the same direction. It's a really simply concept, hm -- I guess it may be obtuse for -some- people to grasp, but it works okay.
 
Jun 3, 2005
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C- Warrior said:
I actually didn't have that many camera problems in DMC4. Especially considering all enemies make auditory cues, lock-on which acts as a camera-recenter, not many problems.

As for the running in one direction, you just keep pushing the analog stick in the same direction, and Nero continues to run in the same direction. It's a really simply concept, hm -- I guess it may be obtuse for -some- people to grasp, but it works okay.
Yeah, I can definitely say that I didn't have many problems with Devil May Cry 4's camera. If at all, really.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Sep 1, 2006
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C- Warrior said:
As for the running in one direction, you just keep pushing the analog stick in the same direction, and Nero continues to run in the same direction. It's a really simply concept, hm -- I guess it may be obtuse for -some- people to grasp, but it works okay.
We (the hardcore DMC-fans) know this from the previos DMC games.
 
Aug 7, 2007
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Draft said:
The camera hate is really just out of control.

I imagine at this point it's rationalization from people too limp wristed or slow of mind to tackle the intense action of Ninja Gaiden. Bubububu the camera got me killed!

It's not a perfect camera, or even a great camera, and it does occasionally get itself into a spot that's less than conducive to, you know, seeing stuff. But the idea that you need to wrestle with it is asinine. It generally affords a good view of the action, and the snapping it behind Ryu is an inelegant but effective remedy for when it wonks out.

Go ahead, quote this post and my avatar. It will help alleviate the shame that lives deep in your heart.



Really I've only played the first 3 missions of sigma but I never noticed any huge problems with the camera. Only my skill :(
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Sep 1, 2006
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DarkJC said:



Really I've only played the first 3 missions of sigma but I never noticed any huge problems with the camera. Only my skill :(
I don't get it. Spamming Flying Swallow on anything under Normal difficulty will kill ANYTHING. Of course, you need to dodge and blocks attacks too but how hard is that?