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Nintendo 3DS Announced: New 3D handheld (no glasses!), reveal @ E3, out by March 2011

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Ninja Moomin

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does anyone have links to tegra tech demos?

just to get an idea of what this is going to look like?



If this is a portable GC in terms of power, considering the size of the screens, the games will look amazing.
 

zigg

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Mik2121 said:
Seems like this thread is slowly dying, huh :p

I hope E3 comes soon enough so we can keep the crazy talk :D
Hey guys, I saw this video on the news, there's this thing called "head tracking" and...

*ducks*
 

swerve

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Sep 14, 2006
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Machado said:
the worst of all is that nintendo never leaks.

I can only hope for this to have a great design. original DS was ugly as hell
It's going to look something like a DS, surely? It'd be insane for them to abandon that iconic and familiar design now.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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Koren said:
I don't think so, and you're indeed right. But while I don't think they're close to release a PSP2, should I be wrond on it, that would be interesting to see. A PSP-3D in anything less than one year with a "we're not into portable 3D now" in 2010 would feel strange.
On the other hand, when a rep says 'we have no plans right now' or things to that effect, their comment is often only 'good' for the moment it's uttered :p The next day their plans may suddenly appear different.

(And it's often the 'let out' they use that lets them apparently deny something while not really denying anything i.e. the classic "currently we don't have plans" line. Until something's announced they're going to push the perception that nothing's in the pipe.)

Reading between the lines I thought it was a fairly carefully constructed reply. How they chose to downplay it was fairly telling...i.e. avoided criticising the tech choice itself. It did seem to genuinely suggest it's not on their agenda imminently, but it left the door wide open.

As for a new handheld (as in, a really new machine...not just a psp refresh), I'm not sure if Sony's in any rush. What exactly do they have to protect here anyway? The DS is already the big winner. PSP software isn't where Sony wants it to be either. The 'only' thing at risk would be the ongoing popularity of the hardware in Japan, perhaps.

Koren said:
(and the demographic quote is wrong at so many levels that it probably doesn't even need to be discussed)
Dude's clearly not been at the cinema in the last year. Kids if anything have been crucial in 3D uptake.
 

Luigiv

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ColonelColon said:
I honestly wouldn't mind at all, as long as the system is substantially more powerful than DS.
Also, I'm beginning to have this vain hope that 3DS will be so incredibly popular that it will influence television manufacturers to sell glasses-free 3D TVs.
Not going to happen until someone figures out how to create a filter that can project the effect to at least 1024 separate locations (or something like that). Currently the max is 64 (with most displayed limited to about 8).
 

GCX

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Oct 22, 2007
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Machado said:
the worst of all is that nintendo never leaks.

I can only hope for this to have a great design. original DS was ugly as hell
Nintendo's ability to design products has changed a lot since 2004. Thank god.
 

Jme

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Mik2121 said:
Seems like this thread is slowly dying, huh :p

I hope E3 comes soon enough so we can keep the crazy talk :D
I heard a rumor that it will be a DSi but underneath the bottom screen is this box that protrudes out the back that contains a huge concave mirror and the images are projected down into this box and then it creates a faux hologram 3d effect without the need for glasses.

I also heard that they are using the same exact tech as we have in 3d movies today that does require glasses, and that the glasses are just built into the system like the virtual boy in a way, you play the system while wearing goggles (not glasses) and the goggles are on this hinge right, so when you look up at the top screen you get this awesome 3d effect, but when you tilt your head (and the goggles) down to the bottom screen (they are in fixed positions) the lenses retract automatically and you can see your touch screen. it is impossible to look at both at the same time so they are not actually seamless but you have the illusion they are as you switch your focus between the two.

and by heard i mean just made up the dumbest things i could to keep the crazy going
 

Koren

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Mar 11, 2005
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gofreak said:
On the other hand, when a rep says 'we have no plans right now' or things to that effect, their comment is often only 'good' for the moment it's uttered :p The next day their plans may suddenly appear different.
Who will believe that they can sell a 3D console tomorrow if they've not conducted experimetns today? ;) I think they should leave the door open, but of course, it's PR, and rules are different.

gofreak said:
As for a new handheld (as in, a really new machine...not just a psp refresh), I'm not sure if Sony's in any rush. What exactly do they have to protect here anyway? The DS is already the big winner. PSP software isn't where Sony wants it to be either. The 'only' thing at risk would be the ongoing popularity of the hardware in Japan, perhaps.
I think that in Japan, there's still a pretty strong software support they wouldn't want to loose. Such as Monster Hunter, for example. What if Quatro become a 3DS game?

gofreak said:
Dude's clearly not been at the cinema in the last year. Kids if anything have been crucial in 3D uptake.
That's not like if the 8-9 y.o. were the main driving force of DS either.

They could have downplayed it better "we don't think elderly people have two eyes with correct vision so stereoscopy won't work"... :D
 

1-D_FTW

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Jun 14, 2006
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gofreak said:
Dude's clearly not been at the cinema in the last year. Kids if anything have been crucial in 3D uptake.
He took special care to point out how his market studies indicated blah-blah. Which makes sense. The Sony 3D tv "that retailers are so excited about" is gonna start at over 2000 dollars. Throw in some glasses that can't take abuse or they break and I'm sure 8 year olds aren't the demographic the study targeted as ideal customers.

But a sub-200 dollar system that doesn't need glasses? I'm sure if he commissioned a study on that device, he'd find the 8 year olds of the world found it much preferable to his solution.
 

EmCeeGramr

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beelzebozo said:
i wonder if reggie is carrying this thing in his jacket pocket for the next two months.
i can't believe a made a post about the possibilities of viewtiful joe on this thing and you didn't even comment
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
Apr 24, 2006
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EmCeeGramr said:
i can't believe a made a post about the possibilities of viewtiful joe on this thing and you didn't even comment
didn't even spot it. the thread is so huge and full of links to youtube that i skim a lot.

regardless, more viewtiful joe is always welcome. i think it's a series that will inevitably make a return in some form--it's just a matter of me having the patience to wait it out and see it come around. the longest franchise wait i've ever endured was SUPER METROID to METROID PRIME and it was like agony. i know there were good games between then, but for some reason my first thought when i think of that gap is, "i played and enjoyed BATTLE ARENA TOSHINDEN in that time span. i was so desperate." hopefully the wait for a new VJ won't be as long.

regardless, link me to this post of sights and wonder, if it's more than just presenting that as an opportunity. i could ramble on and on and speculate about what it could entail, but if you've already got it covered, i wanna join the fray
 

EmCeeGramr

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beelzebozo said:
didn't even spot it. the thread is so huge and full of links to youtube that i skim a lot.

regardless, more viewtiful joe is always welcome. i think it's a series that will inevitably make a return in some form--it's just a matter of me having the patience to wait it out and see it come around. the longest franchise wait i've ever endured was SUPER METROID to METROID PRIME and it was like agony. i know there were good games between then, but for some reason my first thought when i think of that gap is, "i played and enjoyed BATTLE ARENA TOSHINDEN in that time span. i was so desperate." hopefully the wait for a new VJ won't be as long.

regardless, link me to this post of sights and wonder, if it's more than just presenting that as an opportunity. i could ramble on and on and speculate about what it could entail, but if you've already got it covered, i wanna join the fray

basically a viewtiful joe parodying the most prominent 3D movies of the past and present. they could even call it VIEWTIFUL JOE... 3-D and have giant cheesy block letters floating out

"OH NO GRATUITOUS AND GIMMICKY BODY PARTS AND MONSTER ATTACKS ARE FLYING INTO THE AUDIENCE, STOP THEM JOE" as you suddenly have to run towards the screen to stop them and ordinarily with a 2D screen that would be hard to judge the distance from that angle
 

The Technomancer

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Jun 18, 2009
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EmCeeGramr said:
basically a viewtiful joe parodying the most prominent 3D movies of the past and present. they could even call it VIEWTIFUL JOE... 3-D and have giant cheesy block letters floating out

"OH NO GRATUITOUS AND GIMMICKY BODY PARTS AND MONSTER ATTACKS ARE FLYING INTO THE AUDIENCE, STOP THEM JOE" as you suddenly have to run towards the screen to stop them and ordinarily with a 2D screen that would be hard to judge the distance from that angle
................................WANT! My god, that would be the system seller for me, right there. It could have nothing else for six months, I would buy it for that.
 
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GCX said:
Nintendo's ability to design products has changed a lot since 2004. Thank god.
I'd say Nintendo's hand was forced in 2004. They're ahead of the curve now, so they can take their time with the design.

The way I figure it, The DS Lite is what the DS would have looked like originally had the PSP not been announced.
 

beelzebozo

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that sounds fantastic. the great thing about VJ is that they can be totally cheeky about the 3d implementation, and point it out left and right, even--as you say--in the title. something almost BUCKAROO BANZAI-esque would fit with the tone, like, THE ADVENTURES OF VIEWTIFUL JOE ACROSS THE 3RD DIMENSION would be so aces.

and like you said, the material to mine for 3d films is pretty damn deep, stretching from the 50s cheese of stuff like HOUSE ON HAUNTED HILL all the way to the modern cheese of AVATAR.
 

mclem

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AnimeTheme said:
At this point, I still doubt 3DS is really using something like parallax barrier LCD to produce "real" 3D. Parallax barrier is still not a very mature technology. Resolution is HALFED in 3D mode. The viewer must be positioned in a well defined spot to experience the 3D effect, so this will effectively void any kind of tilting or head tracking controls.
So double it.

Resolution being halved is irrelevant if you have control of the screen makeup.
 

AnimeTheme

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mclem said:
So double it.

Resolution being halved is irrelevant if you have control of the screen makeup.
So what resolution should the screen be? 960p to get a 480p actual display...? A parallax barrier LCD is already 2 times more expensive than a normal LCD of the same size. With resolution doubled, this part will put a big burden to the production cost, and we all know Nintendo never sell anything at a loss. And remember that any game needs to render 2 times per frame to get the 3D image (i.e. a 60fps => 30), and how fast should the CPU/GPU be to get anything close to Wii (as some people guessed)? And how about the viewing position problem? Sacrificing the head tracking and tilting stuff just to get the 3D vision? Assuming that 3DS really uses parallax barrier, it will be interesting to see how Nintendo deal with these issues.
 

AceBandage

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Mar 22, 2007
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AnimeTheme said:
So what resolution should the screen be? 960p to get a 480p actual display...? A parallax barrier LCD is already 2 times more expensive than a normal LCD of the same size. With resolution doubled, this part will put a big burden to the production cost, and we all know Nintendo never sell anything at a loss. And remember that any game needs to render 2 times per frame to get the 3D image (i.e. a 60fps game will become 30), and how fast should the CPU/GPU be to get anything close to Wii (as some people guessed)? And how about the viewing position problem? Sacrificing the head tracking and tilting stuff just to get the 3D vision? Assuming that 3DS really uses parallax barrier, it will be interesting to see how Nintendo deal with these issues.

I'd assume that any game that uses head tracking and tilting won't be using 3D during those parts...
 

zigg

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AnimeTheme said:
So what resolution should the screen be? 960p to get a 480p actual display...?
You only have to double the horizontal resolution, not the vertical. But you're right in that it's going to have to push double fps for whatever you actually want the effective fps to be. I don't know what sorts of tricks GPUs have that can ameloriate that, but I suspect not many.

Can I just put my two cents in and say I'm gonna be shocked if this thing is actually "480p", though? I'm thinking 320×240 will be its base res, honestly. Between both screens, that's iPhone-level.
 

Stumpokapow

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May 21, 2006
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AnimeTheme said:
So what resolution should the screen be? 960p to get a 480p actual display...? A parallax barrier LCD is already 2 times more expensive than a normal LCD of the same size. With resolution doubled, this part will put a big burden to the production cost, and we all know Nintendo never sell anything at a loss. And remember that any game needs to render 2 times per frame to get the 3D image (i.e. a 60fps => 30), and how fast should the CPU/GPU be to get anything close to Wii (as some people guessed)? And how about the viewing position problem? Sacrificing the head tracking and tilting stuff just to get the 3D vision? Assuming that 3DS really uses parallax barrier, it will be interesting to see how Nintendo deal with these issues.
480p on a 3.5 inch screen? holy fuck, what kind of pixel pitch do you expect out of this thing?!
 

jonnybryce

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swerve said:
It's going to look something like a DS, surely? It'd be insane for them to abandon that iconic and familiar design now.
Kind of like how they abandoned everything Gameboy?

Nintendo be crazy.
 

1-D_FTW

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There's too much non-information in this thread for me to read everything, so I don't know if it's been posted. Engadget traveled to someone's backyard to view a 7 inch prototype 3D glassless LCD panel. Seemed pretty impressed.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/25/i3ds-glasses-free-prototype-screen-aims-to-take-on-all-of-3ds/

I have no doubt Nintendo has gotten Sharp to supply them with a fairly refined screen. Only way they're releasing this.

Although I still think too many people in this thread have unrealistic expectations. It's like some are expecting this to be holographic.
 

Luigiv

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Stumpokapow said:
480p on a 3.5 inch screen? holy fuck, what kind of pixel pitch do you expect out of this thing?!
Well it's not impossible. 480p screens have been the standard for Japanese Cellphones for at least half a decade now.
 

onesvenus

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AnimeTheme said:
So what resolution should the screen be? 960p to get a 480p actual display...? A parallax barrier LCD is already 2 times more expensive than a normal LCD of the same size. With resolution doubled, this part will put a big burden to the production cost, and we all know Nintendo never sell anything at a loss. And remember that any game needs to render 2 times per frame to get the 3D image (i.e. a 60fps => 30), and how fast should the CPU/GPU be to get anything close to Wii (as some people guessed)? And how about the viewing position problem? Sacrificing the head tracking and tilting stuff just to get the 3D vision? Assuming that 3DS really uses parallax barrier, it will be interesting to see how Nintendo deal with these issues.
Why not use something like Dynallax (A dynamic parallax barrier)? The headtracking is used to modify the barrier and allows a much greater viewing angle for a single user. With this technique you could tilt and use head tracking.
This doesn't solve the problem with the frame rate.
 

phalestine

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Sep 2, 2007
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Mik2121 said:
My phone has 480p (well, it's actually 854x480, so it's even bigger) on a 3.something inches screen :p

right right, but a game would require more juice, if you will, than a Mobile OS.
 

mclem

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zigg said:
You only have to double the horizontal resolution, not the vertical. But you're right in that it's going to have to push double fps for whatever you actually want the effective fps to be. I don't know what sorts of tricks GPUs have that can ameloriate that, but I suspect not many.
To be fair to AnimeTheme, a while ago I was musing about whether they could make it work in both book form and horizontal form if they were to use two parallax barriers above one another, but if they did do that, then they'd need double the resolution in both dimensions.
 

Ranger X

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DeaconKnowledge said:
I'd say Nintendo's hand was forced in 2004. They're ahead of the curve now, so they can take their time with the design.

The way I figure it, The DS Lite is what the DS would have looked like originally had the PSP not been announced.
Nah, people proved the strategy of a redesign successful with the GBASP so Nintendo simply adopted the thing. And now you can except revisions of the DS2 too since people got crazy over the DSi

.
 
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Ranger X said:
Nah, people proved the strategy of a redesign successful with the GBASP so Nintendo simply adopted the thing. And now you can except revisions of the DS2 too since people got crazy over the DSi

.
There will surely be revisions, but I doubt it will look like an ugly brick at first.
 

RoboPlato

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EmCeeGramr said:
basically a viewtiful joe parodying the most prominent 3D movies of the past and present. they could even call it VIEWTIFUL JOE... 3-D and have giant cheesy block letters floating out

"OH NO GRATUITOUS AND GIMMICKY BODY PARTS AND MONSTER ATTACKS ARE FLYING INTO THE AUDIENCE, STOP THEM JOE" as you suddenly have to run towards the screen to stop them and ordinarily with a 2D screen that would be hard to judge the distance from that angle
This is one of the best ideas I've ever heard.
 

Ranger X

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ShockingAlberto said:
There will surely be revisions, but I doubt it will look like an ugly brick at first.
It's not that it will look like an ugly brick, the second iteration only need to look better than the first + some gimmicks thrown in and voila!
 

blu

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May 4, 2007
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hi, i'm just dropping by to chew on some tasty crow.

i was quite confident nitnendo would not announce it this year, for reasons not shareble here. now i'm nom-noming my crow ; )

see what you've done, nintendo!
 

EmCeeGramr

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Man, now I'm imaging a 2D Metroid on a 3D display.

Tiles of differing depth could indicate hidden tunnels and bomb-able spots, or hazards that can be passed through. For enemies and bosses made of multiple parts (with some parts being in the foreground or background), developers wouldn't have to shade or color a part differently anymore to indicate whether you can collide with it or that it can hurt you.
 

Caesar III

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AnimeTheme said:
So what resolution should the screen be? 960p to get a 480p actual display...? A parallax barrier LCD is already 2 times more expensive than a normal LCD of the same size. With resolution doubled, this part will put a big burden to the production cost, and we all know Nintendo never sell anything at a loss. And remember that any game needs to render 2 times per frame to get the 3D image (i.e. a 60fps => 30), and how fast should the CPU/GPU be to get anything close to Wii (as some people guessed)? And how about the viewing position problem? Sacrificing the head tracking and tilting stuff just to get the 3D vision? Assuming that 3DS really uses parallax barrier, it will be interesting to see how Nintendo deal with these issues.
Wouldn't it be possible to alternate the parallax barrier based on the viewing angle? The tech is years old so perhaps such improvements are possible but unknown :)


Anyway: I'm so getting this thing. If it's region free I get a Japanese one :)
 

RoboPlato

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Oct 29, 2006
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EmCeeGramr said:
Man, now I'm imaging a 2D Metroid on a 3D display.

Tiles of differing depth could indicate hidden tunnels and bomb-able spots, or hazards that can be passed through. For enemies and bosses made of multiple parts (with some parts being in the foreground or background), developers wouldn't have to shade or color a part differently anymore to indicate whether you can collide with it or that it can hurt you.
I need this. I need it now.
 

zigg

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mclem said:
To be fair to AnimeTheme, a while ago I was musing about whether they could make it work in both book form and horizontal form if they were to use two parallax barriers above one another, but if they did do that, then they'd need double the resolution in both dimensions.
Ooh, right, I forgot about book orientation. You're absolutely right.

So maybe 320×240 base res and a 640×480 screen underneath. Pixel-doubling, pillarboxing, and lopsided letterboxing the gap for backwards compat.
 

Squeak

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zigg said:
Ooh, right, I forgot about book orientation. You're absolutely right.

So maybe 320×240 base res and a 640×480 screen underneath. Pixel-doubling, pillarboxing, and lopsided letterboxing the gap for backwards compat.
You only need doubling in the horizontal axis, otherwise it's not doubling but quadrupling.
But you will need very high resolution with a barrier, to not get at very noticeable screen door effect.
 

EmCeeGramr

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I thought about it being oriented like that, but the problem is that by gripping it like that horizontally and pressing on the buttons you'd be putting a lot of stress on the hinge over time.
 

Vinci

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Oct 12, 2007
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upandaway said:
I wonder what Nintendo thinks about this whole thing.

I mean, the reaction. Everyone love the 3DS now, analysts predicting success, all of that stuff. No one is expecting the thing to fail and all we know is that it does 3D without glasses.

Traditionally, when Nintendo announced something and it was received badly in the hardcore community, it exploded. If I was them I'd be scared right now that all of these people are actually saying it will be successful.
I think at this point people just don't want to bet against Nintendo. The DS and Wii made most of them look like total morons, and this announcement is at least hitting factors that many of these tech-driven analysts care about - the visuals. As for Nintendo fans: I think we're all just excited to hear about new Nintendo hardware since that means we'll be getting new Nintendo software, likely really good software. The 3D is more of a curiosity; an 'Oh shit, what's Nintendo planning to do with that?!'
 
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