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Nintendo DMCAs Project AM2R and 562 smaller fangames

Acevil

Neo Member
As long as Nintendo actually does something with the IPs they are taking down then I can't complain too much as long as they make the games.

Pokemon I imagine is the biggest one, and they are using that effectively.I understand why they did this, and I support them. I agree with what Nintendo has done, outside of maybe the Metroid Fan Project, I feel that one, they should have reached out, and possibly worked with.

Same with Mother 4 project. Curtain projects I think Nintendo should let live and exist, but work with the person. (This lets you keep the lovely IP Trademark intact.)
 
I wonder how many people playing and downloading the game actually own the original game.

A large portion of them, I'd imagine. I personally bought it when it came out on the EU eshop...4 years ago? It wasn't very good. But regardless, if people didn't buy it after 3-4 years, at £3.50 or whatever the eshop GB game price is, they weren't going to buy it anyway.
 

Kyzer

Banned
It's on the 3DS virtual console. Even though it has some issues, it's still fun. And the Spider Ball gives it a neat gimmick that hasn't appeared in any other official 2D Metroid.

Thats definitely where I'll pick it up ! 3DS is an amazing VC machine, even if Nintendo doesnt actually support it much lol
 

Kaisos

Member
Personally, given the way the fandom has acted over the past year and a half, there is no game series that I would like to die harder than Metroid.

"Out of touch" sounds like making their worst selling home console ever.

Speaking of that, I wonder how many people here making constant demands about what Nintendo "must do" to ensure their loyalty have bought a WiiU, or indeed any Nintendo system in the past 20 years.
 
Nintendo is just butthurt that someone else made a better Metroid game than they did.

Pretty much direct evidence that the game is harming Nintendo and explains why they have the right to take it down. Although I'd prefer that fan games where allowed, it's ridiculous to claim that they do no harm and the idea of someone being able to freely use your own IP to compete against you isn't one to be taken lightly.
 

Toxi

Banned
Speaking of that, I wonder how many people here making constant demands about what Nintendo "must do" to ensure their loyalty have bought a WiiU, or indeed any Nintendo system in the past 20 years.
This is such a weird statement. Why would someone buy the Wii U if they don't like what Nintendo's doing right now?

I bought the Gamecube, Wii, Gameboy, Gameboy Advance, DS, and 3DS btw. No Wii U because no Wii U Metroid.
 

Kaisos

Member
This is such a weird statement. Why would someone buy the Wii U if they don't like what Nintendo's doing right now?

Why would you feel entitled to make demands of a company you don't even financially support? It's fine if you don't want to support them, but it seems odd to spend every hour of every day online yelling about how bad the company is. Just don't support them if you don't like what they're doing.

I bought the Gamecube, Wii, Gameboy, Gameboy Advance, DS, and 3DS btw. No Wii U because no Wii U Metroid.

Then I'm not talking about you? I'm talking about the people who desperately want it to be 1991 again.
 

Toxi

Banned
Why would you feel entitled to make demands of a company you don't even financially support? It's fine if you don't want to support them, but it seems odd to spend every hour of every day online yelling about how bad the company is. Just don't support them if you don't like what they're doing.
Why do you think the Wii U is their worst selling non-Virtual Boy console?
Then I'm not talking about you? I'm talking about the people who desperately want it to be 1991 again.
I'm pretty sure anyone complaining about Metroid is more disappointed it's not 2002 again.
 

Nerrel

Member
What percentage of people downloading AM2R for free do you believe would go and buy a boxed copy for $40+ and the associated hardware required to play it?

What percentage of Metroid fans do you think are buying Federation Force and "the associated hardware required" to play it? I don't think 3DS units are flying off shelves from the demand.

And I'm not sure why you're insisting a 16-bit indie release would be a boxed $40 game. If AM2R were polished up into a cheap eshop release, it would absolutely do well. We're talking about a starved fanbase that has been asking for a game just like this for 11 years. In contrast to, say, a chibi Metroid spinoff that fans never asked for and generally reviled from the instant of its announcement.

You have literally no basis to assert that as a fact.

...I'd consider FF eating absolute shit to be a pretty fair basis. I'd also consider the popularity and success of similar Metroid throwback titles like Axiom Verge to clearly demonstrate that these kinds of games have an audience and are generally popular. I'm dead certain a $15 eshop release of AM2R would crush FF in sales. You'd have to perform some serious mental contortions to believe otherwise.

People, Federation Force was a fucking disaster. Accept it, stop fighting. There's no reason to angrily defend this game. And there's certainly no reason to belittle AM2R for apparently no reason other than spite that FF didn't do better.
 

Kaisos

Member
Why do you think the Wii U is their worst selling non-Virtual Boy console?

Because nobody actually wants to buy Nintendo hardware to play Nintendo games? Again, it's fine if you don't buy it, what I'm objecting to is the constant, constant, constant, constant demands on this site for what Nintendo -needs- to do. If you don't care about modern Nintendo games, that's fine, but please just move on already.

Metroid fans should move on, too.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Personally, given the way the fandom has acted over the past year and a half, there is no game series that I would like to die harder than Metroid.

I don't understand why you'd make a comment like this. Even if Federation Force had been a good game instead of a merely passable one, it actively contravenes the Metroid ethos of a solitary hunter-killer using her wits against a hostile environment by presenting instead a team of co-operating space police using teamwork skills in various sterile arenas. It's chalk and cheese, and I think people who thought highly of the Metroid brand as a coherent identity have every right to be upset when that identity is so badly misused. Even if the discontent had been too hostile, that wouldn't legitimize the death of a game series which very clearly has enormous potential to deliver games of the same quality as Super Metroid, Metroid Prime, and Metroid Prime 2.

The only reason I can think that anyone would say what you have just said is that if they were so attached to Nintendo for partisan reasons that they ignored ultimately the only thing that matters to most people is quality games that appeal to their tastes, and any company that fails to produce those is of course going to do poorly. Maybe try getting some perspective?
 

Toxi

Banned
I don't understand why you'd make a comment like this. Even if Federation Force had been a good game instead of a merely passable one, it actively contravenes the Metroid ethos of a solitary hunter-killer using her wits against a hostile environment with a team of space police using teamwork skills in various arenas. It's chalk and cheese, and I think people who thought highly of the Metroid brand as a coherent identity have every right to be upset when that identity is so badly misused. Even if the discontent had been too hostile, that wouldn't legitimize the death of a game series which very clearly has enormous potential to deliver games of the same quality as Super Metroid, Metroid Prime, and Metroid Prime 2. The only reason I can think that anyone would say what you have just said is that if they were so attached to Nintendo for partisan reasons that they ignored ultimately the only thing that matters to most people is quality games that appeal to their tastes, and any company that fails to produce those is of course going to do poorly.
Nailed it.
 

Kaisos

Member
I don't understand why you'd make a comment like this.

Because people have been unbelievably hostile about a video game company ever since FF's announcement? I find it incredibly irritating.

Nintendo clearly has no interest in making more Metroid games, but there's a loud subset of fans that are only interested in more Metroid games. That's kind of an issue, I think?

The only thing that matters to most people is quality games that appeal to their tastes, and any company that fails to produce those is of course going to do poorly. Maybe try getting some perspective?

The WiiU has plenty of quality games. Most first-party games on that system are actually amazing, but people don't want to shell out the money to play them, clearly.

Is your argument that the WiiU would be successful right now if there was even a single Metroid game on that system? That Nintendo deserves to fail because they aren't making Metroid games? And I'm lacking in perspective?
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Because people have been unbelievably hostile about a video game company ever since FF's announcement? I find it incredibly irritating.

Nintendo clearly has no interest in making more Metroid games, but there's a loud subset of fans that are only interested in more Metroid games.

There's an international market of about a million people who seem to quite strongly like the Metroid ethos and gameplay. Is it really so surprising they are upset that the only company which can make these games chooses not to? What are they supposed to do, just void any and all consumer discontent they might have and purchase the next Nintendo console regardless?

And no, the Wii U wouldn't be a hit success overnight if it had a good Metroid title. Nor does Nintendo deserve to fail because they aren't making Metroid games. Both of these statements are ridiculous strawmen. What I will say is that the Wii U probably would have done moderately better with a strong traditional Metroid title at release, because Metroid presents an image/appeals to a niche that few other Nintendo titles can do, and that my consumer attitude to Nintendo is rather dimmer for them having failed to release this title, which had some impact on my decision to purchase or not their console.

However, the lack of Metroid is, in general, just emblematic of a more general problem with the Wii U's Nintendo game line-up: barring a few isolated gems (Tropical Freeze, Bayonetta 2), it was rather poor and lacked several key titles. Individually, none of these titles would have made much difference. Cumulatively, they made an enormous difference.
 

Dsyndrome

Member
Because people have been unbelievably hostile about a video game company ever since FF's announcement? I find it incredibly irritating.

Nintendo clearly has no interest in making more Metroid games, but there's a loud subset of fans that are only interested in more Metroid games.
Somebody hasn't been following Nintendo's decision-making over the past few years. They haven't exactly been killing it concerning knowing what fans want.
 
Because people have been unbelievably hostile about a video game company ever since FF's announcement? I find it incredibly irritating.

Yes and there's totally nothing that's caused that sort of frustration from more than one fanbase to build up over the last gen or so at all, nah.

SMH dude.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
People ask why it is only Nintendo doing this, but the reason is quite obvious; they're the only one with properties worth making fan games for so they're the only one with this problem.

I mean, have you even seen a Blinx the Cat fan game before lol
 

Kaisos

Member
If Nintendo ever does make a traditional/Prime-style Metroid game again, I'd like to hope it would sell as well as some of their recent titles have. Otherwise, some people would look pretty silly.

Somebody hasn't been following Nintendo's decision-making over the past few years. They haven't exactly been killing it concerning knowing what fans want.

Discussions about Nintendo were much, much healthier here prior to E3 2015.
 

Vena

Member
Somebody hasn't been following Nintendo's decision-making over the past few years. They haven't exactly been killing it concerning knowing what fans want.

Depends on the franchise.

Don't think anyone in their right mind would say that they weren't killing it with regards to Splatoon. Or Pokemon. Or Capitan Todd. Or total wastes of money like Bayonetta 2 or Bayonetta and the lot in Smash. Or Smash in general for that matter.

It all obviously depends on WHO is involved with the project. Nintendo is not a hive mind nor is it one person nor is all creative work put under a singular supervision.

Go look at who was behind FF and ChibiRobo. You'll notice its the same guy.
 

Kaisos

Member
People ask why it is only Nintendo doing this, but the reason is quite obvious; they're the only one with properties worth making fan games for so they're the only one with this problem.

This is incredibly true, and I'm surprised no one has brought it up yet.
 

Toxi

Banned
People ask why it is only Nintendo doing this, but the reason is quite obvious; they're the only one with properties worth making fan games for so they're the only one with this problem.

I mean, have you even seen a Blinx the Cat fan game before lol
This is incredibly true, and I'm surprised no one has brought it up yet.

Valve says hi.

Or they would if they weren't too busy diving into money pits Scrooge McDuck-style.
 

Kaisos

Member
Or they would if they weren't too busy diving into money pits Scrooge McDuck-style.

Valve doesn't make video games anymore, and Sega doesn't make good Sonic games anymore, so it's not really surprising that they've embraced fan games.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
People ask why it is only Nintendo doing this, but the reason is quite obvious; they're the only one with properties worth making fan games for so they're the only one with this problem.

I mean, have you even seen a Blinx the Cat fan game before lol

I don't think this is true; I think that it's more that a number of Nintendo franchises have the level of simplicity that lends itself well to easier fan-game design. For example, making a Halo fan-game or a GTA fan-game would be an absolutely enormous amount of hardwork in terms of learning how to 3D model and use a physics engine and so on. As a result, all community work there is restricted to modding and the like. By contrast, something like AM2R can be done (and indeed partially was done) in something like GameMaker - it's a 2D sprite-based game. Same for Mother 4, same for Pokemon fan-games, most Mario fan-games, Fire Emblem fan-games and so on. Meanwhile, I don't think you'll be seeing many Splatoon fan-games.
 

Toxi

Banned
Valve doesn't make video games anymore, and Sega doesn't make good Sonic games anymore, so it's not really surprising that they've embraced fan games.
Nintendo doesn't make good Metroid games anymore, so they seem pretty comparable.
 

Vena

Member
Nintendo doesn't make good Metroid games anymore, so they seem pretty comparable.

Ehhhhhhhh... I'd hold out on that one for a bit at least. Let's wait and see if the rumor on who's supervising Retro turns out true or not, and then see what they are making.
 

messiaen

Member
You can definitely DMCA fan translations. Tomato spoke about the possibility around the time of the patch's release, and the translation includes an ass covering disclaimer when you boot it up.
I don't think you can DMCA fan translations because the translation is owned by the author that wrote it. It's probably the .exe file or whatever that overwrites the the script files in the game that give grounds for DMCA.
 

Nerrel

Member
Because people have been unbelievably hostile about a video game company ever since FF's announcement? I find it incredibly irritating.

Nintendo clearly has no interest in making more Metroid games, but there's a loud subset of fans that are only interested in more Metroid games.

Let's calmly consider how we got here.

Nintendo released Other M, which was controversial due to an unwelcome story emphasis and its lack of quality exploration, atmosphere, and item progression. It generally missed the point of being a Metroid game and fans were extremely vocal about its problems. After the game disappointed in sales, Nintendo stated that they would look into its failure and why fans turned on it.

5 years later, our first glimpse of the next Metroid is chibi soldiers playing soccer with a giant neon ball. The game was again based on story (fleshing out the troopers), and lacked quality exploration, atmosphere, and item progression. Nintendo did nothing to react to Other M. They repeated a lot of the same mistakes, and made a Metroid game that's even farther off base in terms of what Metroid is about. It gives the impression that they don't take Metroid or its fans seriously, or at the very least, don't have anyone left that even vaguely understands the appeal of the series.

Nintendo has catastrophically mishandled Metroid and generally not shown any respect for what the fans have been unanimously telling them for years. They knew they had upset the fanbase, ignored that criticism and kept going in that direction anyway, and ended up shitting out a failure of a game that didn't even bring them any sales.

Why defend this? Why try to say that Nintendo is in the right and that fans are the problem? Why are we the bad guys for liking a great game series and wanting it to receive good games? Criticism is our only real way of letting Nintendo know what we want and don't want, and they've been giving us so much of what we don't want lately that overwhelming criticism is inevitable.
 

LordRaptor

Member
What percentage of Metroid fans do you think are buying Federation Force ?
...
I'm not sure why you're insisting a 16-bit indie release would be a boxed $40 game.
...
If AM2R were polished up into a cheap eshop release, it would absolutely do well.
...
I'm dead certain a $15 eshop release of AM2R would crush FF in sales. You'd have to perform some serious mental contortions to believe otherwise.

Right, so you don't actually want a new 2D Metroid title from Nintendo.
You want a 'remaster' of a GB game.

And you don't want to pay $40 retail (the price point for Federation Force which you're determined to compare to) for it because in your head its a $15 indie download only title.

e:
Because the reason AM2R is an "indie" title is because its ripped a susbtantial amount of assets, gameplay mechanics and level design directly from Nintendo.
An actual new title is significant work.
 
Nintendo just went down a few notches in my eyes. Still well within their rights to do this, but this right here is the reason I'm not going to by an NX on day one like I was planning. I think I'll do the smart thing, and wait and see if Nintendo is going to fucking neglect the shit out of and/or ruin my favorite franchises again, instead.
 

udivision

Member
Were there any reused assets between Zero Mission and Fusion? Not to go down that rabbit hole though...

Maybe Nintendo should've given Metroid fans a rom dump, like Kirby and Mario got on their anniversaries.
 

Branduil

Member
Right, so you don't actually want a new 2D Metroid title from Nintendo.
You want a 'remaster' of a GB game.

And you don't want to pay $40 retail (the price point for Federation Force which you're determined to compare to) for it because in your head its a $15 indie download only title.

e:
Because the reason AM2R is an "indie" title is because its ripped a susbtantial amount of assets, gameplay mechanics and level design directly from Nintendo.
An actual new title is significant work.

Not sure if you've actually played Metroid II/AM2R, but claiming it wasn't significant work to make is like saying Zero Mission was easy to make because it was just Metroid 1 remade.
 

Nerrel

Member
Right, so you don't actually want a new 2D Metroid title from Nintendo.
You want a 'remaster' of a GB game.

And you don't want to pay $40 retail (the price point for Federation Force which you're determined to compare to) for it because in your head its a $15 indie download only title.

e:
Because the reason AM2R is an "indie" title is because its ripped a susbtantial amount of assets, gameplay mechanics and level design directly from Nintendo.
An actual new title is significant work.

7f15d8eff5246f52b429f1f9fa74-confused-jackie-chan.jpg

When did I ever say I don't want a new 2D Metroid? The comparison between FF and AM2R was invited. My statements were refuting that point about AM2R- for whatever reason- not being capable of selling as well as FF- which, in my opinion, was pitifully easy to do. I think you're so eager to strike that you're ignoring context.

But if you want to set that argument aside and talk about a fully new Metroid, let's assume a new full priced 2D Metroid comes out at $40. OK, absolutely fucking nothing changes, Federation Force still gets destroyed. We're done here.

Just in case you think we're not, here's how past games have fared in Japan in their first week and overall sales just to give you an idea of where FF is.
[GBA] Metroid Fusion <ACT> (Nintendo) {2003.02.14} (¥4 800) - 49 680 / 155 528
[GCN] Metroid Prime <ACT> (Nintendo) {2003.02.28} (¥6 800) - 39 829 / 78 384
[GBA] Metroid: Zero Mission <ACT> (Nintendo) {2004.05.27} (¥4 800) - 39 112 / 85 045
[GCN] Metroid Prime 2: Echoes <ACT> (Nintendo) {2005.05.26} (¥6 800) - 17 680 / 40 355
[NDS] Metroid Prime: Pinball <TBL> (Nintendo) {2006.01.19} (¥4 800) - 0 / 15 541
[NDS] Metroid Prime: Hunters <ACT> (Nintendo) {2006.06.01} (¥4 800) - 32 613 / 90 028
[WII] Metroid Prime 3: Corruption <ACT> (Nintendo) {2008.03.06} (¥6 800) - 34 151 / 74 647
[WII] Metroid: Other M <ACT> (Nintendo) {2010.09.02} (¥6 800) - 44 103 / 75 578

Federation Force sold 4,286 in its opening week. That puts it at less than 10% of Other M, and almost 10% of Zero Mission. Bear in mind Zero Mission wasn't considered a strong performer. If you're going to tell me a new 2D title- which again, fans haven't received in 11 years and have been clamoring for with pent up demand since- can't do better than that FF, you're fucking nuts.

No offense, of course. But if you believe that you are just fucking nuts.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Not sure if you've actually played Metroid II/AM2R, but claiming it wasn't significant work to make is like saying Zero Mission was easy to make because it was just Metroid 1 remade.

I'm saying it is easier than making a brand new title entirely from scratch.


The comparison between FF and AM2R was invited.

Not by me, so I don't know why you quoted me to make that comparison.
I thought this was a topic about copyright infringing games using stolen assets.

That includes AM2R, but it isn't solely about AM2R.

But some people just want to have another go around on how FF sux and how nintendo killed Metroid I guess.

Maybe Nintendo should've given Metroid fans a rom dump, like Kirby and Mario got on their anniversaries.

Couldn't have hurt to Metroid-All Stars it I guess.
Doesn't change a single thing about the inevitable fate of AM2R if they had though.
 

Vena

Member
Were there any reused assets between Zero Mission and Fusion? Not to go down that rabbit hole though...

Maybe Nintendo should've given Metroid fans a rom dump, like Kirby and Mario got on their anniversaries.

I... don't think so. Its been a long time since I played either but they're fairly visually unique in location, enemies, and even Samus. The SA-X may be a reused sprite in part but it has a different face.
 

Demoskinos

Member
You know if I were Nintendo instead of shutting these guys down I'd take them aside have some private conversations and come to an agreement where Nintendo will publish and sell the game. I think everyone wins in that scenario.

Like, i get that with how Intellectual Property law works you need to actively defend it otherwise you do have a chance of losing it but there has to be other options rather than suing and serving your fans DCMA notices.
 
Do you believe it is okay to rip large amounts of someone else's work, then make money off said work without the original creator's permission/license by creating a product directly competing with the creator's main form of business?

Because that's what this boils down to. And apparently, the resounding answer from GAF is yes. Clearly many of you have never poured your blood, sweat, and tears into a project for years and felt any sense of pride over your years of labor.

Not talking about AM2R here, because as far as I know, that fangame was not monetized. so I really wish it hadn't been taken down. 100% free fangames are nearly always harmless. But for the millionth time, GameJolt allows the ad monetization of games. There are still plenty of Mario fangames on the site. A quick search on the site shows over a hundred of them still there. Maybe Nintendo only removed the ones that were actually profiteering from Nintendo assets. Or maybe they're still getting around to pulling the remaining ones. I just tried one fangame on there that is using nothing but ripped SMB1 sprites, and it pushed an ad on me first thing.
 

Branduil

Member
The thing is, yeah AM2R is free, but it also has no advertising outside of word of mouth, whereas a Nintendo-produced Metroid II remake would have a lot more consumer awareness. It would likely at least do about as well as Zero Mission, which is a lot more than you can say for their last two games.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Right, so you don't actually want a new 2D Metroid title from Nintendo.
You want a 'remaster' of a GB game.

And you don't want to pay $40 retail (the price point for Federation Force which you're determined to compare to) for it because in your head its a $15 indie download only title.

e:
Because the reason AM2R is an "indie" title is because its ripped a susbtantial amount of assets, gameplay mechanics and level design directly from Nintendo.
An actual new title is significant work.

AM2R was also significant work. In fact, it far surpasses most remakes Nintendo has ever done.

I just don't see how Nintendo would ever release a $15 title with SNES quality sprites and no new assets as a new mainline entry in a franchise.

Yeah, that would require Nintendo to have some actual business sense.
And once again, it could release at 40$ and outsell FF handily every day of the week.
Also AM2R has a fair shair of original assets.
 
People ask why it is only Nintendo doing this, but the reason is quite obvious; they're the only one with properties worth making fan games for so they're the only one with this problem.

Yeah man not like Sonic has spawned any fangames.

Not like a fanmade remake of Half life is on Steam right now.

Nah.
 
You know if I were Nintendo instead of shutting these guys down I'd take them aside have some private conversations and come to an agreement where Nintendo will publish and sell the game. I think everyone wins in that scenario.

Like, i get that with how Intellectual Property law works you need to actively defend it otherwise you do have a chance of losing it but there has to be other options rather than suing and serving your fans DCMA notices.

Seriously. Nintendo choosing to officially recognize the Metroid II remake would have done a lot of good. Increase support from the Metroid fanbase who they should know are feeling raw about Federation Forces. Such a move could have even seen more Metroid fans willing to give Federation Forces more of a fair shake (as people note, the problem isn't what FF is, it's that what FF is is the only thing Metroid has been for the past six years). Nintendo also is in need of games to pad out the 3DS lineup, as evidenced by the fact that they're doing a fair few ports to the 3DS from the Wii U right now (Hyrule Warriors, Super Mario Maker, Yoshi's Woolly World).
 
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