Nintendo games are made to "100%". The only console without achievements would be best served by them.

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So, despite the fact that you can personally set it to where you don't need to see achievements/trophies, the fact that your friends can annoys you? Get over it, mate.
Personally, I don't care that much. I'm just sick of hearing "just ignore it" or "get over it, mate" from people who aren't thinking about the implications beyond their own personal feelings.

I'm trying make a broader point. Specifically, that opting out or having to ignore something isn't cost-free, and that in this context, you can't even truly opt-out - only ignore your own participation. I think these are valid arguments to not wanting platform-level achievement systems.

People who defend achievement schemes keep framing them as cost-free to people who don't want them and it's straight up bullshit. Make a better argument.
 
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ArchaeEnkidu

Vincit qui se vincit
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Personally, I don't care that much. I'm just sick of hearing "just ignore it" or "get over it, mate" from people who aren't thinking about the implications beyond their own personal feelings.

I'm trying make a broader point. Specifically, that opting out or having to ignore something isn't cost-free, and that in this context, you can't even truly opt-out - only ignore your own participation. I think these are valid arguments to not wanting platform-level achievement systems.

People who defend achievement schemes keep framing them as cost-free to people who don't want them and it's straight up bullshit. Make a better argument.
You opted out. You are not participating, but others that do shouldn't be an issue.

I don't play sports games. I opt out of them, but I don't get bothered when people talk about them or play them. I don't get annoyed when I see friends saying how much they enjoy Madden 2112 on my dashboard. I opt out of drinking alcohol, but others do so (even right in front of me at times!), but I don't get bothered when people do so.

You need to make the better argument, mate. It just comes across as "I don't like it, so no one should be able to have it."
 
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May 26, 2018
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No thanks.
Achievements are a horrible system that killed the concept of unlockables.

In the good old days, you used to find an easter egg, go out of your way and make a particular decision, type a secret command or button combination, and then the game would acknowledge it... with a secret, personal reward, either a developer message or more game content.

Nowadays, the acknowledgement is a notification and a check mark in a list tied to an external account, that's of course not free and incentivizes brand loyalty to a specific console.
Then, the reward is instead moved behind a paywall, DLC or microtransaction.

There's also the documented case of Sony not allowing developers to rerelease PS2 Classics on the PS4 unless they add the mandatory achievements (which implies extra coding and localization work for a ten year old game with no source code), the Undertale developer forced to add them in the PS4 port (despite its opposition with the game design's goals) and tying them to main story milestones everyone would reach (and similar stories from developers who make it so the list is cleared just after doing the tutorial)...
 
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You can hide your trophies from everyone too. He's just upset they are happening at all, even of not visible to himself or anyone else.
I'm not upset about trophies at all. I'm upset with the "just ignore them and they go away" argument.

Even technically, if I turn off my trophies and my game list, everyone elses come up in my feed and on game profiles. "Well don't have friends dur".

Also, I don't think 'blocking' and 'going pirvate' can be comsider passive actions anymore - it's not the default state, and there's an element of hostility attached to that in today culture.

More importantly, I can't turn off trophies at all. They don't go away because I'm ignoring them. That information still aggregates in everyone's earned percentage list "well don't go online dur", and, if I want to truly not participate in what can possibly be considered a scheme for triggering compulsive behavior, FOMO anxiety, platform dependence, plain ol' advertising, or just a shitty way to gameify gaming, I can't do that.
 
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You opted out. You are not participating, but others that do shouldn't be an issue.

I don't play sports games. I opt out of them, but I don't get bothered when people talk about them or play them. I don't get annoyed when I see friends saying how much they enjoy Madden 2112 on my dashboard. I opt out of drinking alcohol, but others do so (even right in front of me at times!), but I don't get bothered when people do so.

You need to make the better argument, mate. It just comes across as "I don't like it, so no one should be able to have it."
Those are false analogies. The equivalent would be eveyone in your feed getting a message saying 'Gamer X isn't playing Madden'. Alcohol is an even worse analogy, because you do get bothered when drunk people hurt people.

And no, it's not "I don't like it, so nobody should have it".
I'm arguing against "I don't mind it, so nobody should mind it".
 

ArchaeEnkidu

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Those are false analogies. The equivalent would be eveyone in your feed getting a message saying 'Gamer X isn't playing Madden'. Alcohol is an even worse analogy, because you do get bothered when drunk people hurt people.

And no, it's not "I don't like it, so nobody should have it".
I'm arguing against "I don't mind it, so nobody should mind it".


That isn't a false analogy, and I didn't bring up drunk people, nor did I make any mention of people being hurt. I literally talked about people drinking alcohol. What are you even on?
 
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That isn't a false analogy, and I didn't bring up drunk people, nor did I make any mention of people being hurt. I literally talked about people drinking alcohol. What are you even on?
Right - because you're not thinking about it past yourself and your own personal feelings.

Some people who drink alcohol get drunk. Some of those people get into their cars and kill people. Can you really not imagine someone caring more about being around alcohol consumption than you are? 'i don't mind, so nobody should'.

And if you not buying a sports game is a good analogy, show me how its holds up.
 
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I'm not upset about trophies at all. I'm upset with the "just ignore them and they go away" argument.

Even technically, if I turn off my trophies and my game list, everyone elses come up in my feed and on game profiles. "Well don't have friends dur".

Also, I don't think 'blocking' and 'going pirvate' can be comsider passive actions anymore - it's not the default state, and there's an element of hostility attached to that in today culture.

More importantly, I can't turn off trophies at all. They don't go away because I'm ignoring them. That information still aggregates in everyone's earned percentage list "well don't go online dur", and, if I want to truly not participate in what can possibly be considered a scheme for triggering compulsive behavior, FOMO anxiety, platform dependence, plain ol' advertising, or just a shitty way to gameify gaming, I can't do that.
You have a tough life.
 
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I never got into the achievement culture, i just don't see the point. If anything they are annoying
Can you imagine how cringe they would be irl? You took a dump 10 points! You walked 5 km in a day 20 points!
 
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I never got into the achievement culture, i just don't see the point. If anything they are annoying
Can you imagine how cringe they would be irl? You took a dump 10 points! You walked 5 km in a day 20 points!
I never got into football, i just don't see the point. If anything it is annoying
Can you imagine how cringe it would be irl? You took a dump 7 points! You walked 5 km in a day 3 points!
 
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I never got into football, i just don't see the point. If anything it is annoying
Can you imagine how cringe it would be irl? You took a dump 7 points! You walked 5 km in a day 3 points!
Not the same thing and i don't even like football
You can hide your trophies from everyone too. He's just upset they are happening at all, even of not visible to himself or anyone else.
That is what it sounds like. Reminds me of the Simpsons Episode.

That's kinda true
What really bothers me is that soo many people are enjoying something that i don't get at all. It would bring me immense satisfaction if they weren't available
To give some perspective: There are things i don't like but i can see the appeal, i get why people like it despite not liking it myself. With achievements i just don't get it, its so stupid and it annoys me that people give achievements so much importance in some cases more than the game itself.

btw i have no issue with 100% games like gta, its achievements i don't get, i hope its just a fad
 
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What really bothers me is that soo many people are enjoying something that i don't get at all. It would bring me immense satisfaction if they weren't available
At least you know you're petty and insecure. Self-awareness counts for something.

its achievements i don't get, i hope its just a fad
Its 2019 now. I have bad news. It isn't a fad.
 
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At least you know you're petty and insecure.
Petty sure, but i dont see how it resembles insecurity
I just don't get it and it annoys me, insecurity would be secretly wanting to do something despite not doing due to some difficulty of barrier of entry.
Self-awareness counts for something.
This is my point actually! I can see the appeal in most other things i dislike but achievements i just don't get, that's why it annoys me.
Its 2019 now. I have bad news. It isn't a fad.
It could still die/lose relevance, you never know
 
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I think that achievements & trophies in games are a big waste of time & should've never been introduced.

They're very gimmicky, & doesn't offer anything worthy of value, besides points & trophies in which you can't use them for anything useful. It makes me glad that Nintendo's not doing any similar to them.
 
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Agree, the achievement trend is cancer in general. 'jump from the bridge unlocked!', 'kill 100 enemies unlocked!', 'play for 10 hours unlocked!' - who cares about such useless stuff? Really glad Nintendo is avoiding this generally.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Agree, the achievement trend is cancer in general. 'jump from the bridge unlocked!', 'kill 100 enemies unlocked!', 'play for 10 hours unlocked!' - who cares about such useless stuff? Really glad Nintendo is avoiding this generally.
I think they have their place, if only to prove how people get things and never even finish the first level let alone best the game sometimes (Trophy rarity), but writing down tasks and completing them does give people generally a sense of accomplishment and helps to complete things (real life studied TODO list making).

Nintendo with their stickers and MiiVerse had undoubtedly the best start to recolutionise the space and what a beautiful start it was... sadly we could never see a speedy and good multitask friendly system implementing it in full alongside the games... Wii U was full of great ideas but badly integrated or badly executed (a system where, a bit like Switch but even further, you could multitask effortlessly and go from one game to the OS to a system app to the game would have slowed those ideas to shine).
 
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People who cheat in online games are not doing it because of trophies or achievements.
not what I was suggesting really.

Some People feel encouraged to cheat or be cheap in some form if there's an achievement incentive involved, I'm not saying it's the only reason not at all, but for some players it's certainly a contributing factor.
 
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What many of you seem unable to understand is that the metagame has become about as important as the game itself. In the form of achievements, fanarts, Steam stickers or photo mode, Today the industry offers much more. You are free to take it or leave it but this attitude of intolerance claiming that this is not important or brings "no value" is laughable considering that there are MILLIONS of people who do care, on every platform. Every platform but Nintendo, which makes me think this is more brand shilling that anything else. If Nintendo were to include achievements tomorrow, I would see a sudden interest for it from many ones who today claim not to be interested. It works the same way for so other features like BC, VR, etc, etc. "If my system doesnt have it, I hate on it" Very mature, yeah.
 
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What many of you seem unable to understand is that the metagame has become about as important as the game itself. In the form of achievements, fanarts, Steam stickers or photo mode, Today the industry offers much more. You are free to take it or leave it but this attitude of intolerance claiming that this is not important or brings "no value" is laughable considering that there are MILLIONS of people who do care, on every platform. Every platform but Nintendo, which makes me think this is more brand shilling that anything else. If Nintendo were to include achievements tomorrow, I would see a sudden interest for it from many ones who today claim not to be interested. It works the same way for so other features like BC, VR, etc, etc. "If my system doesnt have it, I hate on it" Very mature, yeah.
Most people here have multiple platforms and have the same opinion, your whole argument is based on just projecting your opinion of what others would do if things were different as fact, so you have none.

As for how important they are, they don't seem important enough to impede the success of the Switch or the Wii, the 3DS, the DS and so on. Maybe you can think WiiU failed because it didn't have them. It also didn't impede the success of PC games outside unified achievement platforms like Steam, though maybe those games at times had in game systems a la Smash Bros. Minecraft anyone?

PS: I love VR but not only after PSVR came into the picture unlike others :messenger_clapping:
 
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Most people here have multiple platforms and have the same opinion, your whole argument is based on just projecting your opinion on what others would do if things were different as fact, so you have none.

Regardless how many platforms each one has, there is one that usually is the favourite. And this very speech applies to all the features, like:


- Sony fanboys saying that BC and 60 fps are not important

- Non-VR gamers saying that VR is a gimmick

- people who don't own a 4K TV saying that the human eye cannot tell the difference


To me it is pretty much the same attitude in all cases. I don't care for trophies that much but for some games like Bayonetta , DMC, or platformers, it adds really a replayable value. But even if they were useless altogether , I don't see the point of claims like "its a cancer trend" and the likes. As long as it doesn't take away anything from your enjoyment, why shit on it?
 
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Replayability is innate to the game, I won't replay Bayonetta because there's an achievement for killing boss x on hard without taking damage, I'll replay it because it's fun to get better at it when I'm confident it's my skill that needs to improve and not the game being cheap. If it unlocks something cool after beating that challenge that's neat but I'd try it anyway. You don't need achievements to have the carrot on a stick either, games always had rewards for tasks the developers found worthwhile or fun, finish RE in this manner and you get a rocket launcher, finish MGS in that manner and you get the infinite ammo bandana, finish Silent Hill like that and you get a different ending. Much of the time they even had faith in their game being on its own good enough to replay it that the rewards weren't shown before getting them unlike achievements. Making the reward an achievement adds nothing for me while the opposite of adding an achievement on top of an existing in-game system of whatever rewards seems inconsequential. BOTW has you find 1000 koroks, having an achievement for finding them doesn't make me more or less likely to find them, the rest of the game design and how they're integrated is what will make me interested or not interested enough. I didn't agree it's cancer, I just fail to see why they're important in any way whatsoever, any argument for it ignores examples of how to achieve the same thing without having them, as if there have been no replayable games with plenty incentive, from fun to unlocks, on platforms without achievements to present them as the #1 cause for replayability or anything else.
 
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I am annoyed by video game achievements as a concept in general, and I am annoyed by the people who tend to like them.

They're an out-of-game acknowledgement of something you do in-game that provides zero reward other than the game telling you that you did in fact do that thing you just watched yourself do. They provide nothing to the player other than a hollow atta-boy that, even if you like that sort of thing, blinks and flashes on the screen as a notification and distracts you from any actual feelings of accomplishment you might have felt.

What's worse is that they seem to cater to the type of player who is so uncreative, so robotic, and generally so devoid of the ability to make their own fun that they have to rely on some external to-do list to make themselves feel like they've "gotten their money's worth" out of a game.

Achievements suggest to players that games aren't about how much fun you have with them, but instead what's important is the cold, rote process of accomplishing a pre-determined task list as set out for you.


I'd say that achievements in general, as well as the concept of cutting a game up to sell the parts back to you later for more money (on-disk DLC, etc) are some of the worst aspects of gaming right now.
 

wzy

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If gamers were lab rats the literature on achievement hunting would be beyond apocalyptic. There'd be no more box art--just giant warning labels. It's astonishingly to see how thoroughly modern design principles have eradicated the basic intrinsic rewards of something as essential as play, just to make room for all that extra work. Good luck explaining to the crackheads in this thread and elsewhere why they should be eating their vegetables, though.

If you actually have to wonder why this garbage isn't a bigger part of Nintendo's ecosystem, check out any Mario game since the mid-90s. What would be the point?
 
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Nintendo have launched the online system of the Switch last year: https://www.nintendo.com/switch/online-service/
However, there's still a lot to be done, IMHO. For example, I would somehow try to incorporate (party) chat functionality. And I wouldn't paywall cloud save functionalities.

That being said, all console manufacturers suffer from subpar, severely overpriced online systems. Being able to play multiplayer games online should be free (I might be biased, as I come from the PC world).
 
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Nintendo not having a trophy-like system makes me not want to bother with additional goals in their games (not that I even have a Switch yet). I need my account-wide checklist system for that kind of engagement and I feel no shame about it (or the need to explain myself to others, for that matter).
 

ArchaeEnkidu

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
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I am annoyed by video game achievements as a concept in general, and I am annoyed by the people who tend to like them.

They're an out-of-game acknowledgement of something you do in-game that provides zero reward other than the game telling you that you did in fact do that thing you just watched yourself do. They provide nothing to the player other than a hollow atta-boy that, even if you like that sort of thing, blinks and flashes on the screen as a notification and distracts you from any actual feelings of accomplishment you might have felt.

What's worse is that they seem to cater to the type of player who is so uncreative, so robotic, and generally so devoid of the ability to make their own fun that they have to rely on some external to-do list to make themselves feel like they've "gotten their money's worth" out of a game.

Achievements suggest to players that games aren't about how much fun you have with them, but instead what's important is the cold, rote process of accomplishing a pre-determined task list as set out for you.


I'd say that achievements in general, as well as the concept of cutting a game up to sell the parts back to you later for more money (on-disk DLC, etc) are some of the worst aspects of gaming right now.
Wow. That is a *lot* of projection, mate. You just really can't fathom that people enjoy something you don't, so they have to be uncreative, robotic, and fun-killing folks to you.
 
Likes: Vawn
Dec 11, 2018
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Nintendo not having a trophy-like system makes me not want to bother with additional goals in their games (not that I even have a Switch yet). I need my account-wide checklist system for that kind of engagement and I feel no shame about it (or the need to explain myself to others, for that matter).
Meh. If you don't achievement hunt on the other platform(s) you play on, it's not going to make any difference with Nintendo games.
 
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Wow. That is a *lot* of projection, mate. You just really can't fathom that people enjoy something you don't, so they have to be uncreative, robotic, and fun-killing folks to you.
Nah, I'm perfectly able to appreciate that other people like things I don't care for. That's not it. For example, I personally have never really cared for playing 4X games like the Civilization series for example, but I think they're good and fine games and I like that they exist, I just don't care for them. But if you like them, great! I hope you get thousands of hours of quality game time with them.

Achievements are something different though. I don't think achievements are a simple case of different preferences. I think they're indicative of a certain kind of mentality or approach to video games in general that I personally think is detrimental to the industry as a whole, so I actively dislike them.
 
Feb 20, 2018
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I am annoyed by video game achievements as a concept in general, and I am annoyed by the people who tend to like them.

They're an out-of-game acknowledgement of something you do in-game that provides zero reward other than the game telling you that you did in fact do that thing you just watched yourself do. They provide nothing to the player other than a hollow atta-boy that, even if you like that sort of thing, blinks and flashes on the screen as a notification and distracts you from any actual feelings of accomplishment you might have felt.

What's worse is that they seem to cater to the type of player who is so uncreative, so robotic, and generally so devoid of the ability to make their own fun that they have to rely on some external to-do list to make themselves feel like they've "gotten their money's worth" out of a game.

Achievements suggest to players that games aren't about how much fun you have with them, but instead what's important is the cold, rote process of accomplishing a pre-determined task list as set out for you.


I'd say that achievements in general, as well as the concept of cutting a game up to sell the parts back to you later for more money (on-disk DLC, etc) are some of the worst aspects of gaming right now.
You don't sound insecure at all.
 
Likes: ArchaeEnkidu

ArchaeEnkidu

Vincit qui se vincit
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I don't think that word means what you think it means, friend.
You are actively insulting others for enjoying something you do not. You label them as "the type of player who is so uncreative, so robotic, and generally so devoid of the ability to make their own fun". You clearly have some insecurity issues and have to project onto others with this BS.
 
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I never understood why people freaked out so much about achievements as a perk during the 360 vs ps3 days. I thought it was the lamest thing to bring to the table and only served for adding something to their checklist of things.

Achievements don't need a home on a nintendo console. For this I applaud nintendo for not conforming to the west.
 
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Since achievements/trophies became a thing most of developers stopped caring about extra stuff for their games and instead of making interesting stuff for doing various tasks like unlocking cheats, inverse levels and so on they degraded it just to some pointless jpeg of shitty trophy or some fucking points.

Grats for nintendo that they didn't allow for this bullshit to exist on their platform.
 
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You are actively insulting others for enjoying something you do not. You label them as "the type of player who is so uncreative, so robotic, and generally so devoid of the ability to make their own fun". You clearly have some insecurity issues and have to project onto others with this BS.
That's not what the word "insecurity" means. I'm not "insecure" about something simply because I don't like it. I might be "hostile" towards it or "disapproving" of it but I'm not "insecure" about it. You're just using that word because you think it's indicative of weakness, and you're trying to portray me as weak in an attempt to insult me. So you're attacking the person with a different viewpoint than yours, not the viewpoint itself... which actually suggests you're the one with the insecurities, really.

Please learn the definition of a word before using it, especially when you're attempting to use it as an insult. If you get it wrong, like you have here, you just end up looking stupid.

Since achievements/trophies became a thing most of developers stopped caring about extra stuff for their games and instead of making interesting stuff for doing various tasks like unlocking cheats, inverse levels and so on they degraded it just to some pointless jpeg of shitty trophy or some fucking points.

Grats for nintendo that they didn't allow for this bullshit to exist on their platform.
This is right.

Achievements themselves in isolation aren't necessarily these horrible things on their own, but I do think they are a symptom of something very wrong with gaming these days. They definitely seemed to come into popularity right around the time when cheats, secret unlockables, and all the weird cool extra stuff you used to see in video games kind of disappear, which were way better than some lame acknowledgements of completed tasks in the corner of the screen.

To me the trade off wasn't worth it.
 
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I don't think that word means what you think it means, friend.
You sound very upset people are taking pride in their gaming achievements. You come off as concerned they are taking pride in their achievements and hence perhaps judging you on your lack of achievements. I can't see any other reason why you would be so adamant the entire system be taken away instead of just turning off all notifications for yourself.

How would you define insecure?
 
Likes: ArchaeEnkidu
Dec 3, 2004
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I like achievements for some games. In the case of Nintendo, I'd rather it be game centric, rather than applied to all games in the same manner.

Achievements, in the way they were introduced on Xbox, makes the games feel more like applications. Which works for some games..
 
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You sound very upset people are taking pride in their gaming achievements. You come off as concerned they are taking pride in their achievements and hence perhaps judging you on your lack of achievements. I can't see any other reason why you would be so adamant the entire system be taken away instead of just turning off all notifications for yourself.

How would you define insecure?
"Achieving things" in video games and "achievement lists" attached to games but that exist outside them aren't even close to the same things. I'm not against people taking pride in their achievements at all though. If somebody wants to set goals for themselves in a game and then accomplish them, that's awesome!

My dislike for official achievement lists in games now is because they seem like the embodiment of the worst parts of modern corporate game design and modern society. They necessitate the absence of cool stuff like cheats and mods because oh my heavens what if somebody dings an achievement with God Mode turned on?!?! It will negate the integrity of that achievement for everybody!!! Now how will people show off online if the precious integrity of their Achievement List has been compromised? Oh the horror! After all, everybody knows how important it is to show off and loudly brag about every single little thing we do 24/7 for fake internet points, right?

Basically, achievement lists (even if I personally turn them off) make the games I want to play worse because having them at all requires designing games such that all kinds of fun stuff, like cheat codes and mods, are disabled, saves are disabled if cheats are activated, etc.

...And the definition of "insecure" in the context to which you're referring is "anxious or afraid; not confident or certain." I'm not anxious or afraid of people working their way through boring achievement lists just for the sake of checking them off, and it has nothing to do with a lack of confidence or certainty in anything.
 

ArchaeEnkidu

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
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That's not what the word "insecurity" means. I'm not "insecure" about something simply because I don't like it. I might be "hostile" towards it or "disapproving" of it but I'm not "insecure" about it. You're just using that word because you think it's indicative of weakness, and you're trying to portray me as weak in an attempt to insult me. So you're attacking the person with a different viewpoint than yours, not the viewpoint itself... which actually suggests you're the one with the insecurities, really.

Please learn the definition of a word before using it, especially when you're attempting to use it as an insult. If you get it wrong, like you have here, you just end up looking stupid.


Irony, thy name is GreatGreen.

Dude, you have literally insulted people who enjoy it. You aren't attacking the viewpoint, but the people who partake in the viewpoint.
 
Likes: Vawn
Dec 13, 2008
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As someone with 38 plats & 64K gamerscore, I actually tend to not miss it when playing Nintendo games. In a way it's refreshing to take a break from worrying about achievements.