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Nintendo is (re)joining the power wars!!

CeeJay

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Am I missing something? That Tweet says nothing about developing a more powerful console it just talks about looking into "cutting edge technology". That could mean anything. He also specifically mentions intuitiveness and battery life straight after that which to me reads like they are planning to develop better UI and UX and buy some batteries of Elon Musk.

I guess you see what you want to see though...
 

jigglet

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-Arcadia-

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Nintendo needs to be very careful here. Every time they move even a bit towards the cutting-edge, being like competitors, or higher prices, it seems to come with varying levels of problems.

Their audience very much loves an affordable Nintendo, focused on making a variety of games that aren’t exclusively visual showcases/intense 3D games, and doing new things within that framework.

That said, these tweets are always super vague and written in the moment. People should wait for the full transcript to come out before presuming too much.
 

blly155

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i don't see why they couldn't do something like the PS4 Pro/Xbox One X and have games automatically use the new hardware to hit their current framerate/resolution limits. if a game struggles at 25fps and bounces between 540-1080p then without any work from the developer the game could hit 1080p 30fps. if they wanna patch it they can to let it go higher, maybe add new visuals, and upscale to 4K if it can't render it.

in handheld mode cap the game to 720p 30/60fpss and prioritise battery life over performance. when it's docked then let it go crazy. but then you have an issue with thermals/noise. they'd need to significantly improve efficiency of the system chip and cooling design.

imo they should just keep the Switch at 1080p. put in a more efficient chip and get more battery life like they did last year. if people want 4K then they should make a Switch Pro which has no screen/battery and plugs directly into the wall/tv.
 

Stilton Disco

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Given their use of Nvidea tech currently, I'd assume it's more likely a possible combination of using stuff like DLSS and now ARM to allow greater performance for lower spec and power draw.

There's been some very interesting strides made in the last year or so that should be able to squeeze much better looking and performing games out of comparatively weak hardware.
 
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-Arcadia-

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I suppose you could see the Switch as this, in its portable form.

On release, it wasn’t competitive with the latest $800 phones, yes, but it was an absolutely modern design and tech all around, something different for Nintendo, that pushed really impressive visuals I would have expected more from a Sony handheld than a Nintendo one.

When you dock it, it’s not quite so modern anymore, relative to other consoles, but it still represents Nintendo changing their thinking quite a bit.
 

gradient

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"intuitive to users" and "Battery life" suggests they'd be looking at more energy efficient tech and added functionality. Greater battery life alone would prohibit the current power race as that tech would suck a battery dry in minutes, not hours
 
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-Arcadia-

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Imagine talking about cutting edge technology and power with a fucking tablet as a main console...
iPads aren’t cutting edge?

Just adjusting the thinking here. Portable consoles will never be a competitor to anchored consoles, but there’s no reason they can’t be cutting-edge in their own right, for the portable segment.
 

tkscz

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Imagine talking about cutting edge technology and power with a fucking tablet as a main console...
You... you know that's one of nVidia's current big interest right? One of their reasons for buying ARM was their tegra line (along with AI). I mean, it's nVidia themselves making the claim, so a grain of salt, but the Tegra Xavier NX, an SBC the size of laptop RAM, supposedly can get 3TFs

 

RoadHazard

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iPads aren’t cutting edge?

Just adjusting the thinking here. Portable consoles will never be a competitor to anchored consoles, but there’s no reason they can’t be cutting-edge in their own right, for the portable segment.
In terms of gaming? Hell no. The example they showed as cutting edge graphics at yesterday's event looked like a PS3 game.
 
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GymWolf

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iPads aren’t cutting edge?

Just adjusting the thinking here. Portable consoles will never be a competitor to anchored consoles, but there’s no reason they can’t be cutting-edge in their own right, for the portable segment.
Ipads are cutting edge for what they do.

A gaming console in 2020 with shitty performance is not cutting edge for me.

Yes you can consider the switch a portable console and the power is enough for that (it is not but whatever) but people forget that they sell this thing as an hybrid, and as a home console is absolute trash.
 
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GymWolf

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You... you know that's one of nVidia's current big interest right? One of their reasons for buying ARM was their tegra line (along with AI). I mean, it's nVidia themselves making the claim, so a grain of salt, but the Tegra Xavier NX, an SBC the size of laptop RAM, supposedly can get 3TFs

Can't wait to see xbone graphics in 2021 (if we are lucky) thanks to these cutting age mobile chips...
 
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tkscz

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Can't wait to see xbone graphics in 2021 (if we are lucky) thanks to these cutting age mobile chips...
While I know you're being sarcastic I like the idea of that. Always loved seeing how far handhelds go, ever sense the GBA and PSP.

I'm honestly curious about the Tegra Orin more so than the Xavier however, sense it'll be using Ampere for it's CUDA cores.
 

-Arcadia-

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In terms of gaming? Hell no. The example they showed as cutting edge graphics at yesterday's event looked like a PS3 game.
Did I say gaming, for iPads?

Ipads are cutting edge for what they do.

A gaming console in 2020 with shitty performance is not cutting edge for me.

Ues you can consider the switch a portable console and the power is enough for that, but people forget that they sell this thing as an hybrid, and as a home console is absolute trash.
‘Absolute trash’ runs Super Mario Odyssey. But for the sake of staying on topic, portability is exactly it. As a key component, it has to be small, not suck battery too much, light, comfortable, etc., to enable portable play. Within the context of those design goals, and the portable tech required, it was quite modernized at release.

That isn’t what you said at first, though. You implied that portability couldn’t be modern or cutting edge, because of a comparison to consoles. That’s just not the case. Your latest Android is as cutting edge as your new PC, even if one is clearly more capable.
 

GymWolf

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Did I say gaming, for iPads?



‘Absolute trash’ runs Super Mario Odyssey. But for the sake of staying on topic, portability is exactly it. As a key component, it has to be small, not suck battery too much, light, comfortable, etc., to enable portable play. Within the context of those design goals, and the portable tech required, it was quite modernized at release.

That isn’t what you said at first, though. You implied that portability couldn’t be modern or cutting edge, because of a comparison to consoles. That’s just not the case. Your latest Android is as cutting edge as your new PC, even if one is clearly more capable.
Ok maybe my choice of words was not optimal but you get what i'm saying.

Cutting edge for a portable? Yes.
Cutting edge for a gaming console? Not even close.
 
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GymWolf

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While I know you're being sarcastic I like the idea of that. Always loved seeing how far handhelds go, ever sense the GBA and PSP.

I'm honestly curious about the Tegra Orin more so than the Xavier however, sense it'll be using Ampere for it's CUDA cores.
I mean, i troll switch and nintendo all the times but i was always impressed by the porting of wolfenstein or witcher etc.

It's just that i use the switch only as a home console, so the magic of having these big titles on a crappy tablet does nothing for me because i don't use it as a tablet.

I guess that for people who use it as a portable, having ps4 level of grqphics is pretty incredible :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 
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JordanN

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Nintendo is (re)joining the power wars!!
Impossible to get excited when we all know Nintendo doesn't give their games million dollar budgets.

Remember when they had PS3/360 level hardware? This is what the Wii U launched with.



Far from being a looker, even back in 2012.

Now look at where the competition is today. The gap is still too big for them to catch up.

 
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sinnergy

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They never really done that. nes,gb,ds,gcn,wii etc all capable for Nintendo’s needs but mostly old tech compared to Sony / MS. Bit like NASA always using proven tech.


But they make amazing games and experiences regardless of the tech, so who cares? Gameplay is king.
 
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tkscz

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I mean, i troll switch and nintendo all the times but i was always impressed by the porting of wolfenstein or witcher etc.

It's just that i use the switch only as a home console, so the magic of having these big titles on a crappy tablet does nothing for me because i don't use it as a tablet.

I guess that for people who use it as a portable, having ps4 level of grqphics is pretty incredible :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
If nVidia goes with Orin for Switch's successor, I'd say more than base PS4. I've said it in other threads, but using 8nm Ampere cores and the 5nm 12 core ARM Hercules along with a more advanced TCU, nVidia could do a lot with little space and 15w. However, nVidia has always been known to push boundaries, Nintendo on the other hand has always been known for making baffling business decisions and I could easily see them going with an old Xavier AGX model, lowering it's clocks so it couldn't do it's average of 4TFs, and making that the successor, regardless of that being a more costly decision that would consume more battery life. I'd love to be wrong about that, but even when Nintendo was all about power, they made baffling choices (still going with carts instead of just using the damn zip disk they already had, or ignoring online, etc)
 

McRazzle

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"intuitive to users" and "Battery life" suggests they'd be looking at more energy efficient tech and added functionality. Greater battery life alone would prohibit the current power race as that tech would suck a battery dry in minutes, not hours
That depends on the form factor.
A large tablet or tablet notebook would allow for both higher power and longer battery life.

Such as Project Mystique in an article from April, 2019
https://www.xda-developers.com/nvidia-desktop-experience-shield-tablet-2019/

"According to code we examined within the latest SHIELD Experience software, a new desktop-mode software feature is in-development for a new product code-named “mystique.” Furthermore, source code published online by NVIDIA reveals some possible hardware specifications for “mystique,” suggesting it could be a 2-in-1 PC like the Microsoft Surface Book "

"From the code, we can confirm several details about the SHIELD Desktop Experience feature. First, there are 3 supported UI modes: Dynamic, Tablet, and Desktop. Without an updated launcher and SystemUI from a tablet-specific SHIELD Experience 7.2+ build, we can’t confirm the exact UI differences between the 3 modes. However, if we were to guess, then tablet mode is likely a standard Android tablet interface, desktop mode is likely a new interface with a bottom taskbar and freeform multi-window support, and dynamic mode is likely some sort of hybrid between tablet and desktop mode. "

"At one point, NVIDIA was developing “mystique” with the Tegra X2 (t186), but more recent commits showed “mystique” in the device tree for the Tegra Xavier (t194.) "
 
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trikster40

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If Nintendo has learned absolutely anything, they know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that power does not equal sales. The Wiii and the Switch have both proved that people want games. Nintendo is going to continue to make good, affordable hardware and pump money into game development just like they’ve always done.
 
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Zannegan

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Cutting edge doesn't mean powerful. The Switch was effectively cutting edge for its price and form factor at the time.
Devil's advocate: it's also relatively powerful given its price and form factor. It's the most powerful dedicated handheld by a fair margin.

I don't think you're wrong though. Cutting edge doesn't mean we'll be getting a portable PS4 Pro, alas. Maybe next gen. Much more likely we'll get a modest power upgrade with those low-power screens (from Sharp?) and hopefully some new software features. I'm hoping for (but not betting on) heavy use of DLSS for the Pro.
 

Allandor

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I don't believe that Nintendo is going to do that.
Nintendo is Nintendo they gave up the "power-wars" after the Gamecube flop.

I guess they could bring out a 4k console (4k for Nintendo games shouldn't need to much processing power ... maybe somewhere in the 2TF department) but I don't think so.
Maybe they bring out a better switch, using better components to reduce energy usage and can get a bit faster if docked, but that's it.

First thing they should make is support cloud-saves and an easy transfer for those to other consoles. So I can play on my switch (actually the switch of my wife) or on the switch of my son. I really don't get why the hell Nintendo still can't automatically saves gamesaves even though we now pay for the online features.
 

McRazzle

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Cutting edge doesn't mean powerful. The Switch was effectively cutting edge for its price and form factor at the time.
No it doesn't, but the statement, "previously used to look at conventional tech that enabled a lower price and appeal to users."
I don't think disregarding a lower price, just means adding more battery life.
I think it means, "Holy shit, the docked version sells twice as much as the Lite, even in Japan !" and "Oh, my fucking god, look at how much money these whales are spending, and how do we get more of them?"
 

danielJackson

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Nintendo needs to be very careful here. Every time they move even a bit towards the cutting-edge, being like competitors, or higher prices, it seems to come with varying levels of problems.

Their audience very much loves an affordable Nintendo, focused on making a variety of games that aren’t exclusively visual showcases/intense 3D games, and doing new things within that framework.

That said, these tweets are always super vague and written in the moment. People should wait for the full transcript to come out before presuming too much.
Affordable and Nintendo dont belong in the same place :messenger_neutral:

They have literally the most greediest business plan on games, selling 3 year old games for full price because 3rd party devs rarely want to do big AAA-games for Nintendo, because their hardware is so weak + their fan base rather buy same games over and over again instead of something else.

Doing new things = port wii u games, copy&paste same mario kart, smash, 3d mario, yoshi and zelda over and over again. Selling same old classics for 10th time.

Selling the slowest, cheapest to manufacture and worst acceptable quality hardware on highest premium price possible, cutting costs from memory, screens, SoC as much as possible.

No, they are not being affordable.

They are "one hit wonder" repeating their strategy of same kind of 1st party games that sell to certain audience like hot cakes without needing really to innovate on low quality hardware with premium pricing.

what is really affordable?

PS4 or Xbone + good games for 5-20€ on regular sales. And those consoles are cheaper or same price than switch.

Switch costs 350€ and 200€ for lite, are you seriously calling that affordable? Not forgetting expensive joycons + other stuff they do.

But yeah, they are not going to go for the power race as it is not their thing and they would not be able to compete against playstation on "big boys league". So they should do what they are good at, nothing wrong in that.
 
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-Arcadia-

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Affordable and Nintendo dont belong in the same place :messenger_neutral:

They have literally the most greediest business plan on games, selling 3 year old games for full price because 3rd party devs rarely want to do big AAA-games for Nintendo, because their hardware is so weak + their fan base rather buy same games over and over again instead of something else.

Doing new things = port wii u games, copy&paste same mario kart, smash, 3d mario, yoshi and zelda over and over again. Selling same old classics for 10th time.

Selling the slowest, cheapest to manufacture and worst acceptable quality hardware on highest premium price possible, cutting costs from memory, screens, SoC as much as possible.

No, they are not being affordable.

They are "one hit wonder" repeating their strategy of same kind of 1st party games that sell to certain audience like hot cakes without needing really to innovate on low quality hardware with premium pricing.

what is really affordable?

PS4 or Xbone + good games for 5-20€ on regular sales. And those consoles are cheaper or same price than switch.

Switch costs 350€ and 200€ for lite, are you seriously calling that affordable? Not forgetting expensive joycons + other stuff they do.

But yeah, they are not going to go for the power race as it is not their thing and they would not be able to compete against playstation on "big boys league". So they should do what they are good at, nothing wrong in that.
Bro. The hardware, what is clearly being discussed, clearly has a trend of being more affordable.

Why are some of you so hairline triggered by anything Nintendo, that there’s a wall of tears and unrelated points ready to fall out in any topic? It’s pathetic.

We’ll discuss your nonsense some other time, in a more appropriate setting, the next time one of you gets something up your ass about Nintendo, and makes a thread crying about it.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

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The Switch Pro will be available to purchase for four months. After that, it will be removed from shelves.
Don’t give them ideas, lol. Interest in such a machine is probably extremely limited compared to what the Switch launched as.

I’m always skeptical of people who say they’d want a Nintendo console on par with the competition. Apart from the very real example of the GameCube (going against the PS2 perfect storm still doesn’t explain its poor sales completely), what is there on a Nintendo console that you’d be willing to spend $400+ for, apart from Nintendo’s own games?
What these people actually want is Nintendo games on cutting-edge hardware. They don’t actually need that hardware to be Nintendo-made though, which is entirely the point of the matter.

I’d love for Nintendo’s games to be more cutting-edge technically, but if the premise is that I’ll need a second piece of hardware to play their games, then maybe Nintendo’s hardware being cheaper at the cost of compromise is a fair tradeoff for not having to pay twice to have two copycat game consoles at home, one of which would necessarily collect dust anyway between major releases. I’d rather my current Switch collect dust than a $400 4K-compatible Switch collect dust anyway between the next Zelda and the next Pokémon while my PS5/XBox gets all the love and all the third-party games that they’ll get whatever comes.
 

Allandor

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...

Switch costs 350€ and 200€ for lite, are you seriously calling that affordable? Not forgetting expensive joycons + other stuff they do.
...
Ah, yes the joy cons. Already repaired multiple with always the same problem (actually all joycons we have and those of friends). Drifting issues. At least this is easy to fix (but a bit more complicated because of shorter cables in the first wave of joy-cons). But they really have a serious problem with that.
 
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TheContact

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nintendo has never needed raw power to sell consoles. trying to compete with sony and MS isn't financially responsible. they made all their money on appealing to the widest range of audiences they can, using tech in interesting ways to create unique gaming experiences. rarely it fails, like with the virtual boy, but most of the time it's incredibly successful like the Wii and the Switch.