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Nintendo reveals the "New Nintendo 3DS" and "New Nintendo 3DS LL"

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
.... what? What cable? What Blutooth?

yeah i got a great little bluetooth speaker that i like to use with my Vita... was hoping to use that function here, as the music in Nintendo games are usually really good.

Ah, yes, I see. But isn't there some adapters for that sort of stuff?

Yeah but I'm not sure I want to spend $40 bucks for clunky dongle/adapter.
 

beril

Member
Funny, I don't remember any kids viewing the GBC as a revision. Color was a big addition, and that combined with the GBC's increased processing power made for much better looking games. Also, maybe my memory is wrong, but I don't remember many GBC games being marketed as "also compatible with GB", nor do I remember many GB-compatible games being released after the GBC came out. It really was sold as the successor to the GB.

GB Pocket, GBA SP, DS Lite, DSi, those were revisions. New 3DS is in a grey area. It doesn't add anything as dramatic as color, imo, but it does have additional functionality. Nintendo's definitely in a trickier position now. There are so many ways they could screw this up. We'll see if they've learned from the consumer confusion between the Wii and the Wii U.

The colour screen itself was a big thing yes but it was certainly sold as a revision. It was literally a gameboy in color. I don't even remember hearing much about the increased specs until much later. When you consider how extremely specialized the hardware is in a device like Gameboy/DS (and to a lesser extent 3DS), some extra ram and higher clock speed means relatively little and it becomes silly to view it new hardware. You could give the GBC 8 GB GDDR5 (with lots of bankswitching) but you're still limited to 40 sprites (10 per row) and one background layer, all with 2bpp colours
 

Nikokuno

Member
Do you guys think we'll get hands on during tokyo game show?

With Sony pushing hard this year, I think have to do it too, also it the last VG event if I remember well so it's the last chance for Nintendo to show the new system before the end of the year.
 

SegaShack

Member
And how long did Sega support GameGear, Saturn, and Dreamcast for?

A long ass time for all of them actually, especially considering that they were bankrupt.

how long did Sony really support the Vita

Very little.

Ya man, it sucks that the OG 3DS stopped getting games 2 years ago and now the XL ain't gonna get new games. Shit sucks so much.

lol

Do you not understand that this one plays its own games? It is not just a revision of the same hardware like the XL was.

What are you even talking about, lol. I wasn't around here when the DSi got revealed, I wonder if the reaction was the same.
DSi eshop games were a joke and there are maybe 3 total DSi exclusive retal games, only one of which was a first party game (wario ware).

I didn't know that the Nintendo 3DS could no longer play 3DS games.

Can't play the new ones.
 
I don't think Nintendo goes to TGS any more.

Regarding outside Japan, they're not going to officially recognize the N3DS until next year, are they? They probably want a good amount of 3DS sales for Christmas.
 

Nikokuno

Member
A long ass time for all of them actually, especially considering that they were bankrupt.



Very little.



Do you not understand that this one plays its own games? It is not just a revision of the same hardware like the XL was.


DSi eshop games were a joke and there are maybe 3 total DSi exclusive retal games, only one of which was a first party game (wario ware).



Can't play the new ones.

It's a revision like the GameBoy Color which had exclusive game ditto little DSi with iShop or whatever it was call cause yeah digital or retail it matter.
 

L~A

Member
Nintendo isn't attending TGS (and hasn't in ages), so nope, there won't be any hands-on from there. Only way we could get hands-on is if some publishers (like Capcom.... actually possible, they had the Pro Controller for the XL even before its release)) get some consoles from Nintendo. But that's highly unlikely.

If Capcom doesn't have any (I mean, MH4G is one of the N3DS-enhanced games, so there's a small probability), there'll be nothing at all. Even then, they might just have the N3DS in a display case without it being playable.

First hands-on will be from retailer demo booths, most likely.
 

flak57

Member
sörine;127919090 said:
I ignored it because it's wrong. One game playable on two differing hardware isn't like two games playable on two differing hardware. At all.

I don't think you know what "at all" means. They're probably quite a bit different under the hood, but the end result is that Call of Duty: Ghosts is the same game on PS4 as PS3 with better graphics.

sörine;127919090 said:
I guess I'll repeat myself since it didn't sink in the first time. The expectation initially was all games playable across all Game Boys. When that changed the branding changed to make sure consumers knew as much (Only on GBC). I'm not sure why you're harping on the back of the box, games had identical insignia for compatibility with Game Boy AND Game Boy Color on the back of every box. It wasn't on the front because the standard was always playable on old hardware, the exception was not and hence why that branding was stuck on the front for Color exclusive titles when they started showing up six months after the system launched.

You can't be serious with this. Do you see "Game Boy Pocket" on the back of the box under the compatibility list? No, you see "Compatible with Game Boy" and "Compatible with Game Boy Color". These are the two separate systems, the Game Boy Pocket is just a revision. You can't get any closer to proof than that.

Also, here's a Nintendo published GBC game after the GBA came out.



sörine;127919090 said:
Most NGPC games were cross-compatible while only some WSC games were. Neither had palettes preprogrammed into their firmware for old games like GBC did. NGP must've had the shortest lifespan in history though with it's "successor" launching 5 months later.

Not sure what your point is here with this.

sörine;127919090 said:
Nintendo lumps GB and GBC together in all their official documentation. Financials, PR, development. Just as they do DS and DSi. If you consider one set a successor you'd have to consider the other one a successor as well.

Sony started combining product lines to mask Vita's pathetic sales, but that has literally no bearing on this. Sony isn't Nintendo. Nintendo doesn't combine successors but the do combine revisions. Even half step ones like GBC or DSi.

They report things in their financials in the way they think is most beneficial to them. I suppose the last 2+ years of the Game Boy Color life where there were no GB compatibile games being released, while the GBC saw hundreds including MGS, main line Zelda, Kirby, Wario, Dragon Quest, etc it was just a revision. Except your argument is that it became a successor after its popularity surged. So you're contradicting yourself if you use their financials as evidence.

sörine;127919090 said:
Of course there was no pattern, nothing like that degree of forwards compatibility had ever been done for specific legacy software before, or since really. The closest thing might be the customized emulation Microsoft did on a selection of Xbox games for playing on 360. The only pattern I presented anywhere was how Nintendo groups revisions and doesn't group successors. Well I also pointed out how Nintendo released almost no GBC exclusive games for a year until the market had made it a raging success. I guess they released way more than four GBA exclusive games it's first year.

You seem to be under the impression Nintendo moved mountains to improve old OG GB games to be improved on GBC. Somehow I think emulating Xbox games on 360 required much more investment than adding a color for each different shade of black in the GBC firmware, although I don't really know. Either way I think I already said I don't agree that this makes the GBC a revision.

sörine;127919090 said:
GBC specs were beefed up for color output basically. They needed more horsepower to display more than 4 shades of grey on those new color screens. Just as DSi was beefed up for camera and online functionality (digital game store, web browser, etc). New 3DS seems like the odd one out, there's no real discernible addition here demanding an increase in horsepower or memory. Maybe the eye-tracking for improved 3D but even DSi could manage something like that with games. It really seems like the increase is for improving the general experience of what 3DS already does, not doing something new it can't.

Do you have any evidence for this? I think it's obvious there are GBC games that wouldn't be possible on OG GB even if they were black and white. I don't understand the technology of it, but I think that's proven by the large library of non backwards compatible games. Nintendo must have really over shot the added power, they could have saved some serious cash on the hardware!

Also, I don't know about you, but adding color is a really damn significant graphical increase. Think like when Riddick came out with its impressive use of normal mapping. Color is like waaaay beyond something like that. Not really something to just write off.

And if the new 3DS horsepower allowed it to play Xenoblade, I don't see how that's not adding a new experience the old 3DS wasn't capable of.
 

kubus

Member
^
I'm not really interested in the discussion going on here but I just wanna say that Hamtaro Ham-Hams Unite was a damn good game and now I want to replay it. Thanks.
 

Hale-XF11

Member
I wonder if this new 3DS will allow for proper Unity integration for developers. Maybe we'll see cross-platform Wii U/New 3DS games?
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
I tried to get an answer in the Media-Create thread, but maybe this is where I'm going to get it.

What did Iwata actually state when talking about games for n3DS, during the Direct? Did he state that there are games in development that are going to use also the better graphical possibilities compared to the old 3DS? Or did he state something else?

EDIT: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=884846 Silly me, already forgot about this :lol
Forget about this post, gentlemen XD
 

sörine

Banned
I don't think you know what "at all" means. They're probably quite a bit different under the hood, but the end result is that Call of Duty: Ghosts is the same game on PS4 as PS3 with better graphics.
It isn't the same though, it's an entirely different codebase, architecture and most importantly format. If Activision shipped both versions on one disc that might be closer, but it's still fundamentally two compiled games that are entirely incompatible. That's not at all like GB & GBC.

And again, this is nothing new. We had cross-gen games going back 3 decades now. I'm not sure why you feel it's so remarkable or comparable?

You can't be serious with this. Do you see "Game Boy Pocket" on the back of the box under the compatibility list? No, you see "Compatible with Game Boy" and "Compatible with Game Boy Color". These are the two separate systems, the Game Boy Pocket is just a revision. You can't get any closer to proof than that.

Also, here's a Nintendo published GBC game after the GBA came out.
Why would they list the Pocket, it simply maintained the GB branding?

They indicate Super Game Boy on the back of compatible titles. I guess you also consider that format a successor then?

They report things in their financials in the way they think is most beneficial to them. I suppose the last 2+ years of the Game Boy Color life where there were no GB compatibile games being released, while the GBC saw hundreds including MGS, main line Zelda, Kirby, Wario, Dragon Quest, etc it was just a revision. Except your argument is that it became a successor after its popularity surged. So you're contradicting yourself if you use their financials as evidence.
It's not simply financials, it's basically every official reference to both hardware. GB & GBC are always grouped together, as are DS & DSi. Successors aren't though.

Also, GB compatible games were released through 2001. Well after GBA launch even, the last major one I remember was DWM2 that September.

I'm not contradicting myself here, I don't personally consider it a real successor (and neither does Nintendo rather obviously). I've said I could see why someone might consider it one and how it's lifecycle evolved to be more similar to one. The caveat there is it objectively wasn't launched like one. A successor doesn't get it's first exclusive game 6 months after launch and only 4 exclusive 1st party games it's first full year.

You seem to be under the impression Nintendo moved mountains to improve old OG GB games to be improved on GBC. Somehow I think emulating Xbox games on 360 required much more investment than adding a color for each different shade of black in the GBC firmware, although I don't really know. Either way I think I already said I don't agree that this makes the GBC a revision.
I made no comment on the expense or difficulty, only the uniqueness of it. Programming palettes for over 100 SKUs and shipping it with firmware was a surprising commitment to forwards compatibility and we've never really seen anything as comprehensive again. Even Microsoft didn't care to make every 1st party Xbox game forwards compatible, much less allow them to take advantage of 360's new features.

Do you have any evidence for this? I think it's obvious there are GBC games that wouldn't be possible on OG GB even if they were black and white. I don't understand the technology of it, but I think that's proven by the large library of non backwards compatible games. Nintendo must have really over shot the added power, they could have saved some serious cash on the hardware!

And if the new 3DS horsepower allowed it to play Xenoblade, I don't see how that's not adding a new experience the old 3DS wasn't capable of.
Unless Nintendo wanted GBC capable of only displaying 4 colors, they needed to upgrade the hardware. And you should be looking at the early lineup, which was relatively devoid of color only titles. When companies launch successors their primary intent isn't making sure old hardware can play all the new games too. ;)

Exclusive games played the same way isn't the new experience I'm talking about. New 3DS doesn't offer anything as "new" as color or cameras and it's additions don't really demand the sort of spec bump we're seeing like GBC and DSi did. It's nice to have more horsepower but there aren't any new features driving that. It's just more horsepower.
 
I posted this in another thread, but I feel it's worth sharing here too:

Another comparison to the GBC, and clearly what will be happening:
Gbcarts.jpg



From left to right equivalents -

1. Original 3DS game, works on both, no actual benefits on new console as it wasn't designed to take it into account, however just like how OG GB games displayed in limited colour on the GBC, standard 3DS games have the benefit of better 3D on a New 3DS. That's a selling point.

2. The NEW 3DS ENHANCED game, which plays on both units but has better performance and extra features on the New 3DS - Majora's Mask 3D and the next Pokemon would be great examples, with perks such as 60fps on the New 3DS and extra camera control. In terms of the GBC, Wario Land 2 contained two versions of the game - one for the GBC and one for the GB, and it switched depending on what console you were on (on a GBC it is full colour and has no slowdown).

3. Finally on the right we have the New 3DS ONLY games, such as Xenoblade which would not ever be possible on the original hardware. Wario Land 3 is a fucking gigantic game with graphical effects that would have been impossible on the original GB.

I still think it's a toss up over whether Majora's Mask will be option 2 or 3. I have a feeling it may be 3, which is why we haven't seen it yet....Grezzo/Nintendo were restrained heavily on OOT 3D due to its classic status (Miyamoto demanded they make the music sound exactly the same as on the N64, for example). Majora's Mask doesn't share that "untouchable" quality, so I feel like they're going to go all out and have it as a NEW 3DS showpiece.

i came in here to post something like this. glad it was covered.
 
Hearing the announcement of this revision was kinda cool at first, but after learning that it probably won't be out in NA til sometime in 2015 is really annoying. I currently have a 2DS (couldn't afford anything better at the time), and in the next month or so I was going to upgrade to a 3DS XL. If this new 3DS was going to come out here in October like Japan, I would've been happy as hell, but it's not...so I have to either decide if I want to wait probably 6 months for an upgrade, and suffer with this 2DS for longer, or just not get the new 3DS at all, and get an XL now.
 

beril

Member
Do you have any evidence for this? I think it's obvious there are GBC games that wouldn't be possible on OG GB even if they were black and white. I don't understand the technology of it, but I think that's proven by the large library of non backwards compatible games. Nintendo must have really over shot the added power, they could have saved some serious cash on the hardware!

Also, I don't know about you, but adding color is a really damn significant graphical increase. Think like when Riddick came out with its impressive use of normal mapping. Color is like waaaay beyond something like that. Not really something to just write off.

And if the new 3DS horsepower allowed it to play Xenoblade, I don't see how that's not adding a new experience the old 3DS wasn't capable of.

Do you really think 32kb extra RAM and overclocking a 4MHz processor had any significant effect on cost in 1998? Some of the extra power was needed for the colors, but when they're going in and modifiyng the hardware they might as well add a bit extra. I really doubt it was any priority to make the system significantly more powerful, because it really wasn't.

Of course there are games that wouldn't run, or not run as well, on original GB. But honestly I suspect part of the reason some games were made exclusive was just not bothering to make sure they looked ok in B&W, because working with colour palettes changes the workflow a bit.

As for how big a visual increase colors are, it's kindof hard to compare with anything else. From a purely visual perspective it's big, and it requires a totally different type of screen, but from a processing point of view it's not really that significant.
 

Mlatador

Banned
Hearing the announcement of this revision was kinda cool at first, but after learning that it probably won't be out in NA til sometime in 2015 is really annoying. I currently have a 2DS (couldn't afford anything better at the time), and in the next month or so I was going to upgrade to a 3DS XL. If this new 3DS was going to come out here in October like Japan, I would've been happy as hell, but it's not...so I have to either decide if I want to wait probably 6 months for an upgrade, and suffer with this 2DS for longer, or just not get the new 3DS at all, and get an XL now.

Why do you limit yourself so much? Get a "used" 3DS XL. Try to find it at a good price. Use that during christmas and until spring 2015. One month or so before the n3DS XL comes out, sell your 3DS XL and get probably the same amount of money back that you payed for it, because you bought it used. Worst case you have a little loss of like 20 bucks, but that shouldn't hurt.
 
Can't play the new ones.

What new ones? You mean one? The port that probably couldn't run on the OG 3DS?

There's a lot of pessimism in this thread. Can we not save our ire for when Nintendo actually screws over customers by releasing new original games that can't run on the old hardware? They haven't done that yet, so we remain unscrewed.

Right now all I can hear is Boromir, "I see your mind! You will take the games to the New 3DS! You will betray us! Curse you! Curse you and all your revisions!"
 
Why do you limit yourself so much? Get a "used" 3DS XL. Try to find it at a good price. Use that during christmas and until spring 2015. One month or so before the n3DS XL comes out, sell your 3DS XL and get probably the same amount of money back that you payed for it, because you bought it used. Worst case you have a little loss of like 20 bucks, but that shouldn't hurt.

I'm considering that...just don't know if I want to waste the money. We'll see.
 
sörine;128037884 said:
Unless Nintendo wanted GBC capable of only displaying 4 colors, they needed to upgrade the hardware. And you should be looking at the early lineup, which was relatively devoid of color only titles. When companies launch successors their primary intent isn't making sure old hardware can play all the new games too. ;)
No, they really didn't. It didn't take a noticable amount of extra CPU power to handle looking up a table of which palette from memory to apply to the 4-color tile or sprite. And that's all the memory it needed too, 4 bits per tile and 4-bits per sprite, plus the 32 bytes of palette registers (eight 16-bit palette entries for backgrounds, eight 16-bit palette entries for sprites). Just to add color, Nintendo didn't need to triple available memory, double the CPU speed, add DMA's, allow larger cartridges, etc. As a developer, we considered the GBC a true successor to the Gameboy, and we pushed the system as hard as we could, there's no way the original Gameboy could have run the Harry Potter RPGs (especially Chamber of Secrets). And the reason early games were on dual-compatible cartridges wasn't a dictate from Nintendo, it was "gosh, there are millions of original Gameboys on the market, and only a few Gameboy Colors - let's earn tons of money!"

Nintendo didn't want developers *only* adding color, they wanted them to make it obvious the game was improved by being on GBC. From the official GBC dev doc:
Nintendo said:
if you are planning to “colorize” a previously released monochrome game we require that it include game-play enhancements (beyond simply adding color) to differentiate it from its monochrome counterpart.Such game-play enhancements may include, but are not limited to: additional stages, levels, or areas; new characters; additional items; game-play based on color; and so on. These enhancements must be readily apparent to players familiar with the original monochrome game

This was different from DSi, the DSi Nintendo didn't want end-users to even know it had extra power, if the same game was on both DS and DSi, it was really only things like the camera they wanted developers making a point about. And on that system it really did take extra power to crunch photographs in real time, especially if you wanted to do something cool like apply a sketch shader to them (as in Assassin's Creed 2: Discoveries).
 

jts

...hate me...
I'm puzzled about how the system transfer will work now that it needs two different SD cards. (regular and micro).
It's very easy actually, same as transferring nowadays while also using moving to a new (usually larger) SD card.

You start the process normally, and when you remove the SD card from the original system, you copy over the contents to the new card (via PC or Mac) and then insert that one in the new console.
 

Who

Banned
I think the deciding factor for me with the n3DS XL is how well the 3D Headtracking will work actually (as well as if the exclusively made games are worthwhile) Has anyone here tried it with the amazon phone? Any reason we couldn't expect it to be on that level?
 

exfatal

Member
Dont really care if they have new 3ds games only as long as there compelling enough to be worth rebuying this damn system for the 3rd time.
 

sfried

Member
No, they really didn't. It didn't take a noticable amount of extra CPU power to handle looking up a table of which palette from memory to apply to the 4-color tile or sprite. And that's all the memory it needed too, 4 bits per tile and 4-bits per sprite, plus the 32 bytes of palette registers (eight 16-bit palette entries for backgrounds, eight 16-bit palette entries for sprites). Just to add color, Nintendo didn't need to triple available memory, double the CPU speed, add DMA's, allow larger cartridges, etc. As a developer, we considered the GBC a true successor to the Gameboy, and we pushed the system as hard as we could, there's no way the original Gameboy could have run the Harry Potter RPGs (especially Chamber of Secrets). And the reason early games were on dual-compatible cartridges wasn't a dictate from Nintendo, it was "gosh, there are millions of original Gameboys on the market, and only a few Gameboy Colors - let's earn tons of money!"

Nintendo didn't want developers *only* adding color, they wanted them to make it obvious the game was improved by being on GBC. From the official GBC dev doc:


This was different from DSi, the DSi Nintendo didn't want end-users to even know it had extra power, if the same game was on both DS and DSi, it was really only things like the camera they wanted developers making a point about. And on that system it really did take extra power to crunch photographs in real time, especially if you wanted to do something cool like apply a sketch shader to them (as in Assassin's Creed 2: Discoveries).

That's really interesting news. Was the power bump on the DSi really that significant? GAF always seems to assume it was marginal, but I I'm pretty sure the extra RAM was also used to make web browsing feasable on the device...

And now with New3DS purported to have twice the RAM and enough power to do HTML5 browsing, and apparently realtime facetracking while playing games, I'm wondering just how much more beefier New3DS really is (and please no Vita comparisons). If something like Xenoblade does get ported, would you think it would now be possible to port various other games to the portable? Perhaps Ultra Street Fighter IV 3D Edition?
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
A long ass time for all of them actually, especially considering that they were bankrupt.



Very little.



Do you not understand that this one plays its own games? It is not just a revision of the same hardware like the XL was.


DSi eshop games were a joke and there are maybe 3 total DSi exclusive retal games, only one of which was a first party game (wario ware).



Can't play the new ones.

That's not true though. Lets stop the bs. The 3DS can still play new and upcoming 3DS games. Except Xenoblade (and any N3DS games, if there is any).
 

Grief.exe

Member
I actually have a class 10 Micro SDHC card in my current XL by way of an SD adapter. Will make the transition a little smoother.
 

sfried

Member
All I know is that I glad I held off from upgrading to an XL until the color I want would come out here ("iPad" platinum). Alas I like the matte finish of the New3DS alot. I only hope they return to the clicky Control Pad alongside the classic Start Select positions., but you can bet I'm going to be the first one to giving that C-Stick a long hard critique for its weird looking position.
 

Anth0ny

Member
I posted this in another thread, but I feel it's worth sharing here too:

Another comparison to the GBC, and clearly what will be happening:



From left to right equivalents -

1. Original 3DS game, works on both, no actual benefits on new console as it wasn't designed to take it into account, however just like how OG GB games displayed in limited colour on the GBC, standard 3DS games have the benefit of better 3D on a New 3DS. That's a selling point.

2. The NEW 3DS ENHANCED game, which plays on both units but has better performance and extra features on the New 3DS - Majora's Mask 3D and the next Pokemon would be great examples, with perks such as 60fps on the New 3DS and extra camera control. In terms of the GBC, Wario Land 2 contained two versions of the game - one for the GBC and one for the GB, and it switched depending on what console you were on (on a GBC it is full colour and has no slowdown).

3. Finally on the right we have the New 3DS ONLY games, such as Xenoblade which would not ever be possible on the original hardware. Wario Land 3 is a fucking gigantic game with graphical effects that would have been impossible on the original GB.

I still think it's a toss up over whether Majora's Mask will be option 2 or 3. I have a feeling it may be 3, which is why we haven't seen it yet....Grezzo/Nintendo were restrained heavily on OOT 3D due to its classic status (Miyamoto demanded they make the music sound exactly the same as on the N64, for example). Majora's Mask doesn't share that "untouchable" quality, so I feel like they're going to go all out and have it as a NEW 3DS showpiece.

Good post. I hope it turns out this way (New 3DS is more of a GBC and less of a DSi). It would be a good way to bridge the gap between 3DS and the Nintendo's next handheld console. If the rumors of a universal "Nintendo OS" for all of Nintendo's future hardware is true, you'd have to imagine that the 3DS successor and the Wii U successor will launch at around the same time.
 

Who

Banned
I think that with the added horsepower, the addition of the cstick, and with Miyamotos teasing, this might actually confirm that Minecraft is on it's way to the 3DS
 

sfried

Member
I think that with the added horsepower, the addition of the cstick, and with Miyamotos teasing, this might actually confirm that Minecraft is on it's way to the 3DS

You might be on to something. I think the situation actually called them to have specific kinds of games to be put on their handheld which resulted in the spec increase, yet I feel they mostly use this opportunity to address the issues of the "original line" rather then make is a full-blown successor. That and Unity.
 

Who

Banned
You might be on to something. I think the situation actually called them to have specific kinds of games to be put on their handheld which resulted in the spec increase, yet I feel they mostly use this opportunity to address the issues of the "original line" rather then make is a full-blown successor. That and Unity.
Which also gives me hope that they'll support the n3DS longer and release the hybrid later.

For a few reasons:

More development time for hybrid system which means a fantastic launch line up

Releasing later also generally means better hardware for a cheaper price

More time and games for what may the last glasses less 3D dedicated gaming console.
 

mrback

Member
anyone in the UK pulling the trigger on a japanese model? just wondered about the pitfalls of such a move. dont wanna wait till next year.
 
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