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[Astral Dog]

people have a really hard time analyzing things outside of the perspective of present day. you had people proclaiming wii u would be an easy success, switch and ps4 being relatively unsuccessful to their competitors (before much was really known about each), and ds being the end of the road for nintendo as a hardware maker, or at least the psp becoming a ps2-like success in the handheld realm.

one thing i've kept track on is how nintendo's platforms are irrelevant. in the n64 and especially gamecube era it was because the library was 'kiddie', which i think even nintendo took to heart early on in the gamecube's life and tried to address to no avail. the wii was casual despite nintendo's own efforts being generally not so different from previous generations.

wii u wound up being a weird palette cleanser in a way because i think it fit people's thoughts of what a nintendo platform was - an irrelevant, ancient part of the market that appeals to a small group (despite the 3ds providing clear evidence of nintendo's continued power in the mainstream), but has good nintendo games. switch comes along and it rides the success of breath of the wild - an open-world game that is meant for older, more experienced players. it defined what the userbase and therefore library would be. you can't really attach a stigma to it so easily as it was to call their other platforms for kids or casual gamers. even the argument that it's underpowered is weak considering it has to function in a true portable mode.

Poor 12 Switch

 

[Celine]

What does 2016 have to do with anything. My argument is that there's no reason to assume that Destiny 2 would have a massive effect of PS4 sales 4 years into the gen and with no cheap bundle option

Ok, by how much do you think have Switch outsold PS4?

 

[Jaded Alyx]

I have no receipts.

But I see a lot of posts from Euro GAFers who say you can stroll into any store and there are stacks of Switches everywhere.

Same as say, PS4s?

 

[Turrican3]

But I see a lot of posts from Euro GAFers who say you can stroll into any store and there are stacks of Switches everywhere.

I'd say, never underestimate the power to distort/spin reality on the Internet...

 

[Waylon Drums]

In a trillion years I would never have thought they'd be in the position they're in now after the Wii U. Holy shite. You really, truly, should never count Nintendo out.

 

[LambdaTeos]

I have no receipts.

But I see a lot of posts from Euro GAFers who say you can stroll into any store and there are stacks of Switches everywhere.

yeah I have seen that too where I live.. .the other day I went to a store and saw a huge a mount of switches available...

2

it was huge

 

[Peterc]

ARMs' core-oriented nature was not obvious from the get go. They continuously demoed ARMs with motion-controls and the reveal trailer only focused around said control scheme. I understand motion controls does not automatically equal casual, but it the eyes of the average hardcore gamer it does.

Hardcore gamers doesn't play with standard controllers too. They use keyboard and mouse instead and sees a console more as a casual system to enjoy with casual friends or family.

Motion controls or gyro are even better for hardcore gamers to play fps games because it aims better. Autoaim implemented in standard controls for fps games are specially made for casual gamer so they can play games like call of duty. Of course you don't have to be casual to enjoy console games too.


My view is different on all this. Each games are best playable with specific controls. So each controller type has his purpose for a specific game. There isn't a best one. There is only a best way for that specific game. Who think otherwise is just in deniable.

 

[noshten]

So Nintendo is selling really well in North America and Japan but not so much in Europe.

I would have thought it would have done well there because of the portable nature of the console but maybe they just are not into Nintendo games there.

I mean we know that it's above 390K in France, their goal for the year is 800K which would put the Switch on pace with how the Wii sold over there.
In terms of other countries we know that it selling well, >250K in Germany(BotW sold over >200K on the Switch during August BIU Awards). Possibly above 200K in the UK and probably over 100K in Spain.

It's generally beating 3DS launch aligned everywhere except Japan(where it's only 150K behind with SMO launch imminent). 3DS is the best system to compare the Switch to right now because both systems launched spring time. The difference is the price and no backwards compatibility. I think it's fairly obvious Switch will be a more popular system in Europe and NA compared to the 3DS, especially once Pokemon comes out and they drop the price to 250 euro.

 

[Kurt]

ARMs' core-oriented nature was not obvious from the get go. They continuously demoed ARMs with motion-controls and the reveal trailer only focused around said control scheme. I understand motion controls does not automatically equal casual, but it the eyes of the average hardcore gamer it does.

Playing fps game with Dual Analog is much more casual then playing it with motion controls like splatoon 2 has. I mean it's the nearest setup compared using a pc mouse.

If you like this casual dual analog control type for playing fps games, thats ok. But don't focus on those wii/ps3 games in the past which abused motion controls in games.

 

[Renna Hazel]

Hardcore gamers doesn't play with standard controllers too. They use keyboard and mouse instead and sees a console more as a casual system to enjoy with casual friends or family.

Motion controls or gyro are even better for hardcore gamers to play fps games because it aims better. Autoaim implemented in standard controls for fps games are specially made for casual gamer so they can play games like call of duty. Of course you don't have to be casual to enjoy console games too.


My view is different on all this. Each games are best playable with specific controls. So each controller type has his purpose for a specific game. There isn't a best one. There is only a best way for that specific game. Who think otherwise is just in deniable.

Hardcore gamers don't use standard controllers? Man, this definition changes every day.

 

[Orthogonal]

Is this thread in place of an NPD thread? Did we get any rank lists?

 

[Instro]

Is this thread in place of an NPD thread? Did we get any rank lists?

NPD is delayed.

 

[Peterc]

Hardcore gamers don't use standard controllers? Man, this definition changes every day.

Whats your question?

They doesn't use that to play their hardcore games on pc if that is your question. They see a console not as a hardcore gaming device but rather as something to enjoy. They are not going to take destiny multiplayer on a console seriously. They rather play it to enjoy it and probably as single player.

 

[shimon]

Is this thread in place of an NPD thread? Did we get any rank lists?

Monday most likely.

 

[Renna Hazel]

Whats your question?

They doesn't use that to play their hardcore games on pc if that is your question. They see a console not as a hardcore gaming device but rather as something to enjoy. They are not going to take destiny multiplayer on a console seriously. They rather play it to enjoy it and probably as single player.

I was asking if you believed hardcore gamers only use a mouse and keyboard. If so, I think that's a silly definition.

 

[Django.Mango]

Nintendo needed HD experience, lots of droughts due to how slow they were to adapt.
I believe their new development structure didn’t start until 2013 with the merger of some of their internal teams in one building?

Interesting read. They did very well with their first HD steps on WiiU. Many good looking games on it like Wind Waker or Xenoblade.

 

[WestEgg]

I was asking if you believed hardcore gamers only use a mouse and keyboard. If so, I think that's a silly definition.

Especially since the game in question, ARMS, is a fighting game which are always played with game pads, especially at the "hardcore" level

 

[Mikey Jr.]

What.....Did you actually hold one?

Yes. I bought one specifically for Zelda. My 3ds is smaller and feels better in the hands.

Dude would probably prefer the WiiU Gamepad lmao.

How dare I criticize the Switch. My bad. lol.

 

[PeterOliver]

Now let us plug in a mouse and keyboard and release a nintendo moba and take over the world nintendo.

 

[Principate]

people have a really hard time analyzing things outside of the perspective of present day. you had people proclaiming wii u would be an easy success, switch and ps4 being relatively unsuccessful to their competitors (before much was really known about each), and ds being the end of the road for nintendo as a hardware maker, or at least the psp becoming a ps2-like success in the handheld realm.

one thing i've kept track on is how nintendo's platforms are irrelevant. in the n64 and especially gamecube era it was because the library was 'kiddie', which i think even nintendo took to heart early on in the gamecube's life and tried to address to no avail. the wii was casual despite nintendo's own efforts being generally not so different from previous generations.

wii u wound up being a weird palette cleanser in a way because i think it fit people's thoughts of what a nintendo platform was - an irrelevant, ancient part of the market that appeals to a small group (despite the 3ds providing clear evidence of nintendo's continued power in the mainstream), but has good nintendo games. switch comes along and it rides the success of breath of the wild - an open-world game that is meant for older, more experienced players. it defined what the userbase and therefore library would be. you can't really attach a stigma to it so easily as it was to call their other platforms for kids or casual gamers. even the argument that it's underpowered is weak considering it has to function in a true portable mode.

This is accurate I think. The switch is the first square on core orientated console (that is seen as such) that has been a success since the snes days. There isn't much in the way of notable stigma to attach to the console (even the no third parties is starting to dwindle as a narrative), they're basically at the level of "PS4 has no games" early on into the lifespan which clearly had almost no effect on the PS4 itself.

I think a lot of it has to do that Nintendo themselves have admitted they're no longer chasing that blue ocean. They not trying to get people that usually aren't interested in playing games to play games. They've gone completely after the red ocean combined with their usual family friendly IP's and design sensibilities. Unlike with the gamecube and the N64 they have a really popular piece of hardware this time to leverage this with. It makes it harder attach those thoses of types stigma when the company in question is chasing squarely after you. Which is what Sony has been experly doing with the PS4.

 

[MatPiscatella]

Is this thread in place of an NPD thread? Did we get any rank lists?

It'll be Monday.







Unless something else happens. Heh.

 

[Principate]

It'll be Monday.







Unless something else happens. Heh.

This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

 

[Jubenhimer]

That's because the 'average' hardcore gamer are closed-minded idiots. I wouldn't even called these the average hardcore gamers, just the loudest who complained about anything that don't fit their mindset, which is why people thought Splatoon would do Wonderful 101 numbers.

And people wonder why Nintendo doesn't always do what the fans or hardcore want.

 

[Spiritual_Chaos]

I'd say, never underestimate the power to distort/spin reality on the Internet...

There is absolutely no problem getting a switch in sweden at least.

 

[jariw]

There is absolutely no problem getting a switch in sweden at least.

There's no problem getting a PS4 in Sweden as well.
EDIT: And the grey Switch version is still very hard to find in Sweden. The Blue/Red is very common.

 

[jdstorm]

Yeah not many mention MKart because it has a remake but its important to remember that's just a REMAKE out there. There will be a new Mario Kart, and a new Animal Crossing, and a new Mario Party, Metroid will be next year too right? Throw a Smash and a Pokemon and one new IP all on next years palette (this is assuming they managed to do this) plus third party contributions and next year could easily beat this year.

Their IP catalog is underrated IMO. They could really REALLY push for a strong second year assuming they have been pushing behind the scenes to get games done. And if they were open to entries into IP like Golden Sun, Advance Wars, F-Zero, Star Fox and Diddy/Donkey Kong Racing, the gen could have some serious heat behind it for a good strong 4 years at which point you could literally get a second Mainline Mario, Xenoblade and Zelda on the same platform.

I don't see why there would be a new Mario Kart any time soon. Assuming it takes roughly 3 years to make a game, it seems like the Mario Kart team will be busy with ARMS2 (and hopefully some MK8 DLC) so with that in mind i wouldn't expect a new Mario Kart until 2023/4.

For everyone who wants their Mario Kart fix, virtual console will likely have every Mario Kart game within the next few years (Super, 64, Advance, Double Dash, DS, Wii, 7) that should be more then enough to keep players happy. Especially if Nintendo/3rd parties continue to release more arcade racing games on the system (FZero? Wave Race? Excite? New IP? Ect)

 

[jariw]

I don't see why there would be a new Mario Kart any time soon. Assuming it takes roughly 3 years to make a game, it seems like the Mario Kart team will be busy with ARMS2 (and hopefully some MK8 DLC) so with that in mind i wouldn't expect a new Mario Kart until 2023/4.

For everyone who wants their Mario Kart fix, virtual console will likely have every Mario Kart game within the next few years (Super, 64, Advance, Double Dash, DS, Wii, 7) that should be more then enough to keep players happy. Especially if Nintendo/3rd parties continue to release more arcade racing games on the system (FZero? Wave Race? Excite? New IP? Ect)

Has Nintendo announced virtual console for the Switch?

 

[Si2k78]

It'll be Monday.







Unless something else happens. Heh.

Thanks Mat. Looking forward to it. I’m looking most forward to hearing about xbox live’s player engagement numbers.

 

[jdstorm]

Has Nintendo announced virtual console for the Switch?

Not to my recollection. However the NES classic mini and SNES classic mini are both running emulators on the same ARM powered hardware. With the Switch also being ARM based it seems logical to conclude that those emulators will find their way to the Switch eventually.

Probably sooner rather then later given the financial incentive.

 

[Common Knowledge]

I don't see why there would be a new Mario Kart any time soon. Assuming it takes roughly 3 years to make a game, it seems like the Mario Kart team will be busy with ARMS2 (and hopefully some MK8 DLC) so with that in mind i wouldn't expect a new Mario Kart until 2023/4.

For everyone who wants their Mario Kart fix, virtual console will likely have every Mario Kart game within the next few years (Super, 64, Advance, Double Dash, DS, Wii, 7) that should be more then enough to keep players happy. Especially if Nintendo/3rd parties continue to release more arcade racing games on the system (FZero? Wave Race? Excite? New IP? Ect)

No way in heck is Nintendo going to go that long without a brand new Mario Kart for the Switch. It's one of their premier franchises and a huge money-maker. 8 Deluxe functioned great as a launch-window enhanced port of a game that didn't quite get the recognition it deserved being a Wii U game, but considering it was originally released in 2014, you can guarantee there's work being done a new game by now.

And DLC for Deluxe doesn't really make sense considering it was supposed to be the "definitive" version of 8 that already had all the DLC packed in it.

 

[Red Devil]

What? Everyone since April was saying PS4 would win September NPD because of Destiny 2.

Maybe most of the people who bought Destiny 2 already had a PS4, also could it be that Destiny 2 did very well but not as well as expected?

 

[OfficerRaichu15]

So Switch beat the SNES mini right?

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Maybe most of the people who bought Destiny 2 already had a PS4, also could it be that Destiny 2 did very well but not as well as expected?

Highly likely that SNES beat it numbers wise considering how much they made for the launch week, but revenue wise it's probably lower than Switch.

 

[Astral Dog]

This is accurate I think. The switch is the first square on core orientated console (that is seen as such) that has been a success since the snes days. There isn't much in the way of notable stigma to attach to the console (even the no third parties is starting to dwindle as a narrative), they're basically at the level of "PS4 has no games" early on into the lifespan which clearly had almost no effect on the PS4 itself.

I think a lot of it has to do that Nintendo themselves have admitted they're no longer chasing that blue ocean. They not trying to get people that usually aren't interested in playing games to play games. They've gone completely after the red ocean combined with their usual family friendly IP's and design sensibilities. Unlike with the gamecube and the N64 they have a really popular piece of hardware this time to leverage this with. It makes it harder attach those thoses of types stigma when the company in question is chasing squarely after you. Which is what Sony has been experly doing with the PS4.

Showing Skyrim Switch on the reveal was a good tactic

 

[Jubenhimer]

This is accurate I think. The switch is the first square on core orientated console (that is seen as such) that has been a success since the snes days. There isn't much in the way of notable stigma to attach to the console (even the no third parties is starting to dwindle as a narrative), they're basically at the level of "PS4 has no games" early on into the lifespan which clearly had almost no effect on the PS4 itself.

I think a lot of it has to do that Nintendo themselves have admitted they're no longer chasing that blue ocean. They not trying to get people that usually aren't interested in playing games to play games. They've gone completely after the red ocean combined with their usual family friendly IP's and design sensibilities. Unlike with the gamecube and the N64 they have a really popular piece of hardware this time to leverage this with. It makes it harder attach those thoses of types stigma when the company in question is chasing squarely after you. Which is what Sony has been experly doing with the PS4.

Again, nothing about the Switch suggests that they're philosophy has changed. Nintendo never said they're going after the red ocean. It's obvious the Switch is still a Blue Ocean console. It is correct that the target audience has changed, as Nintendo isn't targeting those who never played games before. But that doesn't suggest that Nintendo is going after the core gamer primarily, otherwise, the Switch would be a completely different console.

 

[jdstorm]

No way in heck is Nintendo going to go that long without a brand new Mario Kart for the Switch. It's one of their premier franchises and a huge money-maker. 8 Deluxe functioned great as a launch-window enhanced port of a game that didn't quite get the recognition it deserved being a Wii U game, but considering it was originally released in 2014, you can guarantee there's work being done a new game by now.

And DLC for Deluxe doesn't really make sense considering it was supposed to be the "definitive" version of 8 that already had all the DLC packed in it.

I could be wrong, i often am. However my oppinion is not unprecedented. Home console Mario Kart titles have traditionally released approximately 6 years appart and Nintendo only usually releases one Mario Kart per system due to the game consistently being an evergreen seller (MK8 (WiiU) 2014, MKWii 2008, Double Dash (GCN) 2003, MK64 (N64) 1996, Super Mario Kart (SNES) 1992)

With this in mind its easy to imagine Nintendo not seeing the need to spend extra money making a new Mario Kart game that would only serve to canabalize sales of a game they no longer need to spend money on making.

Aditionally many successful games have recieved more then one "Definitive Edition" version. Street Fighter 2 is perhaps the gold standard for this practice with SF2 having something like 6 different versions (i looked this up on Wikipedia and only left confused)

Releasing further DLC for Mario Kart 8 allows Nintendo to further monetize its already large userbase, with the added advantage of profit margains being increased in the digital environment. Aditionally this allows Nintendo to eventually surplant MK8 Deluxe with a new content complete version without risking canabalizing sales or making the MK8 redundant by releasing MK9.

Finlly releasing MK9 in 2023/4 would potentially allow for gameplay to take advantage of increased hardware capabilities and it be a good obvious signal to consumers that it was time to upgrade to a "Switch 2" or whatever the current Switch revision is called at the time.

 

[D.Lo]

Especially since the game in question, ARMS, is a fighting game which are always played with game pads, especially at the "hardcore" level

What? Top players are surely on motion for Arms, it's much more flexible/powerful than pad control.

 

[Beartruck]

..and people wondered why Nintendo didnt bury the 3DS.

+6 years in still chugging along.

Edit:

Wow Metroid did better than i expected

I just came back to it. Culdcept and Etrian Odyssey V are soooo good.

 

[WestEgg]

What? Top players are surely on motion for Arms, it's much more flexible/powerful than pad control.

I meant fighting games in general use gamepads rather than keyboard and mouse, not ARMS specifically.

 

[Mory Dunz]

With all these specific Switch NBA 2k18 ads during the NBA games, I think it could do more than FIFA. but we'll see.

 

[jdstorm]

What? Top players are surely on motion for Arms, it's much more flexible/powerful than pad control.

Especially post patch where you dont need to waggle to punch or block anymore. The added advantage of independently curving punches is too great

 

[Jon Carter]

With all these specific Switch NBA 2k18 ads during the NBA games, I think it could do more than FIFA. but we'll see.

There was no retail version in September on Switch though, and since Nintendo doesn't share eShop numbers, it'll be zero, unfortunately.

 

[Branduil]

No way in heck is Nintendo going to go that long without a brand new Mario Kart for the Switch. It's one of their premier franchises and a huge money-maker. 8 Deluxe functioned great as a launch-window enhanced port of a game that didn't quite get the recognition it deserved being a Wii U game, but considering it was originally released in 2014, you can guarantee there's work being done a new game by now.

And DLC for Deluxe doesn't really make sense considering it was supposed to be the "definitive" version of 8 that already had all the DLC packed in it.

MK8D is selling like a new MK, though. There's no real incentive for Nintendo to cut off its legs, it would make more sense to just release a new DLC pack in a couple of years to give it a boost.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

In a trillion years I would never have thought they'd be in the position they're in now after the Wii U. Holy shite. You really, truly, should never count Nintendo out.

And that is the strength (and in turn weakness) of trying to “Surprise and Delight” consumers.

I’m glad Nintendo take chances both in terms of hardware design and software output. It would be a bland, sad industry without the them.

 

[AzaK]

The Switch has "made it" if RDR2 makes it day and date with the other consoles.

 

[samar11]

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228321925

Ha ok you got me there about the DOA thing, never will i open my mouth about that shit again lol

 

[kc44135]

I don't see why there would be a new Mario Kart any time soon. Assuming it takes roughly 3 years to make a game, it seems like the Mario Kart team will be busy with ARMS2 (and hopefully some MK8 DLC) so with that in mind i wouldn't expect a new Mario Kart until 2023/4.

For everyone who wants their Mario Kart fix, virtual console will likely have every Mario Kart game within the next few years (Super, 64, Advance, Double Dash, DS, Wii, 7) that should be more then enough to keep players happy. Especially if Nintendo/3rd parties continue to release more arcade racing games on the system (FZero? Wave Race? Excite? New IP? Ect)

Nintendo hasn't announced Virtual Console for Switch, and given their current love affair with Classic Consoles, it's likely they see them as a VC replacement. They likely won't be bringing retro games to the system at all outside of the "Classic Game Selection" (which is only NES games, and sounds like quite a limited selection). Hey, I'd love VC too, but you shouldn't be getting be getting your hopes up like this when the writing is basically on the wall here, man.

 

[Principate]

Again, nothing about the Switch suggests that they're philosophy has changed. Nintendo never said they're going after the red ocean. It's obvious the Switch is still a Blue Ocean console. It is correct that the target audience has changed, as Nintendo isn't targeting those who never played games before. But that doesn't suggest that Nintendo is going after the core gamer primarily, otherwise, the Switch would be a completely different console.

Reggie litterally says this (for the power and influence he has) and you'd have to not pay attention to the majority of the software they've outputted over the years not to notice this difference. The marketing has changed the demographics chased has changed greater realignment to what they're competitors are doing rather than doing something completely.

You have to have not watched closely this year to have not seen the rather substantial shift.

 

[Jubenhimer]

Reggie litterally says this (for the power and influence he has) and you'd have to not pay attention to the majority of the software they've outputted over the years not to notice this difference. The marketing has changed the demographics chased has changed greater realignment to what they're competitors are doing rather than doing something completely.

You have to have not watched closely this year to have not seen the rather substantial shift.

Nobody is saying there's no change in strategy, there is, it's obvious. But you're taking Reggie's statements out of context. The Switch isn't aimed at non-gamers like the Wii was, it's aimed at casual gamers who don't have the time or patience for conventional console games. Everything about the Switch was designed to be friendly and appealing to those who are mostly familiar with mobile gaming.

 

[jdstorm]

Nintendo hasn't announced Virtual Console for Switch, and given their current love affair with Classic Consoles, it's likely they see them as a VC replacement. They likely won't be bringing retro games to the system at all outside of the "Classic Game Selection" (which is only NES games, and sounds like quite a limited selection). Hey, I'd love VC too, but you shouldn't be getting be getting your hopes up like this when the writing is basically on the wall here, man.

Completely disagree.

Subscription services are all the rage right now and Nintendo has one of the best back catalogues of beloved content outside of any company not named Disney. There is 0 chance that they don’t try and monetize that. Especially with NoA's head of sales and marketing having previously worked at EA when they were first introducing EA Access and the Origin vault.

Combine that with the hastily dropped subscription service plan that was meant to be running as a paid service around now. Chances are they are reworking that to follow a similar model and Nintendo are keeping silent until its almost ready to go.