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Nintendo Switch Dev Kit Stats Leaked? Cortex A57, 4GB RAM, 32GB Storage, Multi-Touch.

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Vena

Member
More like there were a shit-ton of 28nm spares lying around Nvidia from all of those unsold Shield devices, and Nvidia was selling them for very cheap.

Which begs to question: What happens after they sell the lot out of those 28nm chips?

This is not how custom chips work.

There is no "pile of spares" laying around for a chip that is custom made. These things are fabbed fresh, and even still there are no Maxwell Gen2 chips on 28nm to be laying around.
 

AlStrong

Member
So they back-engineered a 20nm fab to 28nm? That doesn't exactly make all that much sense to me.

They wouldn't have to per se (if that's what the chip is). The major IP blocks (i.e. Maxwell and A57) were originally designed for 28nm, so the IP block libraries already exist for putting together a custom chip.

The uncore bits are relatively straightforward by comparison.
 

Rodin

Member
So they back-engineered a 20nm fab to 28nm? That doesn't exactly make all that much sense to me.

The DF article posits that they believe/have heard that the custom chip has absorbed other parts/improvements of Pascal, would be a very weird chimera of a chip to be sporting advanced featuresets on Maxwell Gen2 + Pascal improvements, and then be riding on 28nm. The former never being designed on said node to begin with.

The Wii U GPU had some architectural improvements borrowed from AMD architectures past VLIW5, but it was still a 45nm part. Switch can have a Maxwell 2 GPU with Pascal color compression and be fabbed at 28nm, i don't see what's so unbelievable about it.
 

ggx2ac

Member
More like there were a shit-ton of 28nm spares lying around Nvidia from all of those unsold Shield devices, and Nvidia was selling them for very cheap.

Which begs to question: What happens after they sell the lot out of those 28nm chips? Another thing that wouldn't stack up. But it does line up with price point.

Everyone really needs to stop quoting Thraktor's speculation of the Semiaccurate article about the "good deal" Nvidia offered Nintendo to which he speculated Nvidia had to get rid of 20nm wafer orders.

Check Nvidia's financials, someone else did and pointed out they didn't have any 20nm wafer orders owing.
 
The Wii U GPU had some architectural improvements borrowed from AMD architectures past VLIW5, but it was still a 45nm part. Switch can have a Maxwell 2 GPU with Pascal color compression and be fabbed at 28nm, i don't see what's so unbelievable about it.

I wouldn't say it's unbelievable necessarily, but just very strange when Tegra X1s were at one point used as dev kits with audible fan noise. Devkits don't get downgraded THAT much anymore, right?
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
As a reference for the future, since I've mentioned his posts in the recent past, here's all the posts Matt made on the possibility of getting PS4/One ports on Switch.

I just wonder if things didn't change meanwhile. The leaks pointed towards a standard TX1 chip in the devkits (at least the earlier) ones. Eurogamer said it's a standard TX1 with a fan on top in July, Emily said that the specs in this very OP are 90% of what she heard (which of course will be pretty damn funny if the 10% would be the shitty clocks). LCGeek was also talking about a standard TX1 in terms of CPU and so on. So Matt's statements would also fit perfectly in this series of "leaks".
 

sfried

Member
Everyone really needs to stop quoting Thraktor's speculation of the Semiaccurate article about the "good deal" Nvidia offered Nintendo to which he assumed Nvidia had to get rid of 20nm wafer orders.

Check Nvidia's financials, someone else did and pointed out they didn't have any 20nm wafer orders owing.
I said 28nm, not 20nm.
 

FyreWulff

Member
I wouldn't say it's unbelievable necessarily, but just very strange when Tegra X1s were at one point used as dev kits with audible fan noise. Devkits don't get downgraded THAT much anymore, right?

pre-release devkits are almost never the exact specs, just a general ballpark.

Like how the 360 devkit were just a G5 mac pro, hence why a lot of launch 360 games only used one core.
 

Vena

Member
I just wonder if things didn't change meanwhile. The leaks pointed towards a standard TX1 chip in the devkits (at least the earlier) ones. Eurogamer said it's a standard TX1 with a fan on top in July, Emily said that the specs in this very OP are 90% of what she heard (which of course will be pretty damn funny if the 10% would be the shitty clocks). LCGeek was also talking about a standard TX1 in terms of CPU and so on. So Matt's statements would also fit perfectly in this series of "leaks".

Doubt it. Targets for specs have probably been known for months if not over a year, because we'd have heard about any disparities or major changes from disgruntled devs like we did with the WiiU. They've had targets for a long time now, this is just the first we're hearing of them.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Doubt it. Targets for specs have probably been known for months if not over a year, because we'd have heard about any disparities or major changes from disgruntled devs like we did with the WiiU.

With Wii U we heard from devs starting with 2 months before launch not earlier (september 2013 Warriors Orrochi, probably because of the crunch.

Edit:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-u-with-the-developer-of-a-wii-u-launch-title

https://www.slashgear.com/nintendo-wii-u-has-horrible-slow-cpu-says-game-developer-21257927/
 
I just wonder if things didn't change meanwhile. The leaks pointed towards a standard TX1 chip in the devkits (at least the earlier) ones. Eurogamer said it's a standard TX1 with a fan on top in July, Emily said that the specs in this very OP are 90% of what she heard (which of course will be pretty damn funny if the 10% would be the shitty clocks). LCGeek was also talking about a standard TX1 in terms of CPU and so on. So Matt's statements would also fit perfectly in this series of "leaks".

Easy porting isn't necessarily tied to raw console power if we're being honest. But I do agree that literally everything was painting a much different picture than DF is now. Emily Rogers initially said "it's closer to XB1 in power than PS4, though that may be stretching it a tiny bit" which truly doesn't seem to be reflected in those clock speeds. There could certainly have been a downgrade around the time Nate heard about the 5-8 hour battery life target.

pre-release devkits are almost never the exact specs, just a general ballpark.

Like how the 360 devkit were just a G5 mac pro, hence why a lot of launch 360 games only used one core.

Right, but what we have here (a stock TX1) is something like 4x more powerful than the Switch when clocked for handheld mode. That's a serious downgrade.
 

sfried

Member
With Wii U we heard from devs starting with 2 months before launch not earlier, probably because of the crunch.
And so far we've heard developers not having any significant problems developing for Switch. They must have already been given specs way in advance and knew what to expect.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
And so far we've heard developers not having any significant problems developing for Switch. They must have already been given specs way in advance and knew what to expect.

The point was that for Wii U it seems to have happened when maybe there was no NDA anymore, because these are very public statements. I'm pretty sure no dev will risk the huge fine and maybe losing his/her job over Switch when they are not even in the crunchiest period yet.
 

Shiggy

Member
And so far we've heard developers not having any significant problems developing for Switch. They must have already been given specs way in advance and knew what to expect.

For Wii U, third party reports about the big development troubles only emerged after launch.
 
And so far we've heard developers not having any significant problems developing for Switch. They must have already been given specs way in advance and knew what to expect.

We didn't hear anything.

We only heard that Skyrim and NBA aren't confirmed for Switch because reasons, which itself is quite a strange thing.
 
The assumptions, conclusion-jumping and freakouts, all for something that might not even be true and doesn't tell nearly as much as some think it does is exhausting.

Fucking hell, DF.
 

BDGAME

Member
They have a chance to attract some "gamer" crowd with the possibility of portable dark souls or gta5.

If the hardware is as weak as it seems to be, no one will be excited by a 15fps dark souls or a stuttering GTA.

Well...

I really don't understand. How can they take an existing chip and purposedly make it weaker. It's as if they were frightened by the possibility of a descent hardware...

Man, it reminds me of the WiiU pre launch period. These bad news threads full of "lol Nintendo", "dirt cheap", "krilin tier" and all these bullshit. I was surprised that each and every Switch thread were positive, it seems this is over.

Now, why did no one this time leak the weakness of the thing?

Maybe the switch do the same trick as Ps4 pro to run 4K (modern upscale), so Dark Souls 3 on Switch runs at 540p and receive a native upscale to 1080p.

Using Upscale, there is possible run most of modern games, since Switch support the same engine as these games.
 

bomblord1

Banned
The assumptions, conclusion-jumping and freakouts, all for something that might not even be true and doesn't tell nearly as much as some think it does.

Fucking hell, DF.

Knowing the SM's (which digital foundry claims is 2) and the Clock Speed (also from the article) we can 100% accurately calculate the GFLOPS. That means quite a bit.
 
Knowing the SM's (which digital foundry claims is 2) and the Clock Speed (also from the article) we can 100% accurately calculate the GFLOPS. That means quite a bit.

They explicitly say in the article they don't know if it's 256 CUDA cores, though they think it's unlikely to be more. The specs they're working from have never been confirmed.
 

bomblord1

Banned
They explicitly say in the article they don't know if it's 256 CUDA cores, though they think it's unlikely to be more. The specs they're working from have never been confirmed.

They also list 256 CUDA cores and say "we can confirm that Nintendo has briefed developers recently with the same information. "
 
They also list 256 CUDA cores and say "we can confirm that Nintendo has briefed developers recently with the same information. "

This goes along with what we've heard from insiders saying the spec list in the OP is close to accurate. "Briefed with the same information" would mean that they've heard something similar, not that it's 100% identical. If developers heard the exact same 100% identical information, don't you think DF would have said this? That they would have been a lot more sure of the GPU/CPU configurations and customizations?
 

Formless

Member
This goes along with what we've heard from insiders saying the spec list in the OP is close to accurate. "Briefed with the same information" would mean that they've heard something similar, not that it's 100% identical. If developers heard the exact same 100% identical information, don't you think DF would have said this? That they would have been a lot more sure of the GPU/CPU configurations and customizations?

Same does not mean similar.
 

Clessidor

Member
I personally already think the fan might only run in docked mode at this point.

We only heard that Skyrim and NBA aren't confirmed for Switch because reasons, which itself is quite a strange thing.

Almost every Third actually used the same words when the Switch was revealed "We are going to support it, but can't confirm any title yet". Not just Bethesda and Take Two.
They just got NDA'd by Nintendo. It's a strange thing of course. But it would be typical Nintendo. Putting a cloak of silence over NX/Switch was they entire marketing strategy so far.

On the other hand I can remember Kimishima once said in October, the trailer is already teasing/hinting at games which will come. So their goal is to build up just expectations what will be announce in January (MK,Splatoon,Skyrim,NBA, etc.)
 
I personally already think the fan might only run in docked mode at this point.



Almost every Third actually used the same words when the Switch was revealed "We are going to support it, but can't confirm any title yet". Not just Bethesda and Take Two.
They just got NDA'd by Nintendo. It's a strange thing of course. But it would be typical Nintendo. Putting a cloak of silence over NX/Switch was they entire marketing strategy so far.

On the other hand I can remember Kimishima once said in October, the trailer is already teasing/hinting at games which will come. So their goal is to build up just expectations what will be announce in January (MK,Splatoon,Skyrim,NBA, etc.)

Only that games like Dragon Quest and Just Dance got already confirmed.
 

Donnie

Member
So now we've got people claiming it must be 28nm, a process that isn't even used anymore..

As far as the argument about Nintendo using 45nm for WiiU, they did that because it was the only process available that supported the eDRAM they wanted to use.

Can someone come up with a similar reason for them to use 28nm?
 
So now we've got people claiming it must be 28nm, a process that isn't even used anymore..

As far as the argument about Nintendo using 45nm for WiiU, they did that because it was the only process available that supported the eDRAM they wanted to use.

Can someone come up with a similar reason for them to use 28nm?

Because lol Nintendo?
/S
 
I personally already think the fan might only run in docked mode at this point.



Almost every Third actually used the same words when the Switch was revealed "We are going to support it, but can't confirm any title yet". Not just Bethesda and Take Two.
They just got NDA'd by Nintendo. It's a strange thing of course. But it would be typical Nintendo. Putting a cloak of silence over NX/Switch was they entire marketing strategy so far.

On the other hand I can remember Kimishima once said in October, the trailer is already teasing/hinting at games which will come. So their goal is to build up just expectations what will be announce in January (MK,Splatoon,Skyrim,NBA, etc.)

So you expect all these third party games to be revealed come January....oh boy.
 
Same does not mean similar.

Firstly, it can't possibly be "the same information" because the clock speeds are clearly wrong. Secondly, if these developers can confirm that configuration, then why hasn't DF actually said it is confirmed? And finally, if these developers have confirmed this configuration, why is DF speculating that there might be other architectural changes such as more CUDA cores?

I don't think they're implying "briefed with the same information" means that these specs are 100% confirmed. Their article would make no sense if so.

Edit: I'm in full pessimism mode when it comes to this news, but let's not confuse DF's speculation based on good educated guesses as confirmation.
 

Clessidor

Member
So you expect all these third party games to be revealed come January....oh boy.

I expect Skyrim & NBA like most people who watched the trailer. And probably other Third party launch games.

EDIT: And that's not delusional at all. It's the expectation which Nintendo created by putting them in the trailer.
 

Zedark

Member
So you expect all these third party games to be revealed come January....oh boy.

Whatever happens at the January event, it will be interesting. If they come with an assorted lineup of third party AAA games (not just remasters like Skyrim but games like Dark Souls 3 and something like Mafia 3), then we can both assume that developers are able to make AAA games run on the Switch. Whether they will support it with newer games, however, is still uncertain, though they could answer that by showing unreleased games at the event. If the third parties are largely absent except for the odd game and remaster, then we have our answer: Switch won't have third party support in any meaningful capacity.
 

MacTag

Banned
Only that games like Dragon Quest and Just Dance got already confirmed.
Because they, along with Zelda and Sonic, were formally announced well in advance of the Switch reveal. Since then almost all major 3rd parties and even Nintendo themselves have gone on media blackout not announcing anything else until the Jan 12 event.
 

EDarkness

Member
Because they, along with Zelda and Sonic, were formally announced well in advance of the Switch reveal. Since then almost all major 3rd parties and even Nintendo themselves have gone on media blackout not announcing anything else until the Jan 12 event.

The exception to this was LEGO City Undercover. That game was announced after the NS was revealed. I'm sure they worked something out with Nintendo in advance.
 

MacTag

Banned
The exception to this was LEGO City Undercover. That game was announced after the NS was revealed. I'm sure they worked something out with Nintendo in advance.
Yes, it had a twitter announcement only though afaik. Also Nobunaga's Ambition coming to Switch, which a Koei Tecmo producer announced on a livestream. Even these couple Switch announcements we've had seem pretty informal so far and without any accompanying PR or media.
 
How many games series have you played that has more than 800 fully animated and bespoke "main characters" (as in that are potentially the main camera focus for extended amounts of playtime)?

I don't think you appreciate how much work that is. Its not like something like Assassins Creed crowds where you can procedurally add male_A head to male_Z torso and use generic_man_walk animation and it just works

Why isn't potentially their highest selling game franchise worth that effort?

It takes effort to make games not look like upscalled GameCube ports. I'm tired of people excusing nintendos lack of effort.
 
Why isn't potentially their highest selling game franchise worth that effort?

It takes effort to make games not look like upscalled GameCube ports. I'm tired of people excusing nintendos lack of effort.

Why are you talking about Game Freak redoing all of the Pokemon models? They did this 3 years ago before X and Y came out, the models are insanely complex for the 3DS resolutions. They will look spectacular as is on an HD device.
 

Donnie

Member
They also list 256 CUDA cores and say "we can confirm that Nintendo has briefed developers recently with the same information. "

That same information quotes 1tflop, you're going to say the cores part is exact info but the flops listed isn't? You can't pick and choose. If developers really were ever briefed with that info it was obviously as a guide to what kind of performance to expect "expect performance like this well known X1 Dev board". That doesn't mean the hardware reaches that performance in a identical fashion.

Obviously we know the system isn't what's actually shown in that spec list because that's just a X1, while this SoC is custom.
 

Donnie

Member
I personally already think the fan might only run in docked mode at this point.

Forgetting how bizarre it would be to overcomplicate the habdheld by including a fan that doesn't even run (much easier and 95% as effective to just have one in the dock) the Switch patent already confirms that the fan is used in portable mode.
 
So I just thought about this- we essentially know based on the patent that the Switch has at least gyro sensors in the main tablet (angular velocity sensors) which indicates that it will be shaken quite often for certain games.

Is there any other device out there currently which has motion controls and also an internal fan? I feel like that's an excellent way to cause a very high rate of mechanical failure, even if the fan is never being run in portable mode...

Maybe they did actually get rid of the fan, which would explain these clock speeds?
 
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