Nintendo Switch will support VR in the future

They couldn't put a 1080p screen because of the GPU, not because of the screen.

What makes me think they can do it in 2020? Simple, we should made a galactic shift in GPU architectures with Pascal. Switch couldn't get on the right side of that shift. Switch+1 will get the benefits of three years progress plus that shift. Those are power AND performance benefits BTW.

An upgraded Dock could do the tracking BTW.

The model is right. Nintendo just has to execute.
Bold is nonsense, they could easily run Shovel Knight or something at 1080p in portable mode. They didn't put a 1080p screen on there because of costs. Same reason they won't put a 4K screen on one in 3 years, probably not even in 6 years.

And yep, just like the Scorpio/Zen fanboy wishlist, Switch 2 will have glorious Pascal and blow the PS4 out of the water in portable mode with its magic battery. That won't be prohibitively expensive for Nintendo's business model!

And the upgraded dock could do tracking... I'm gonna need an example of how that would work. You need actual tracking in 3D space

Again, it might be about as capable as a smartphone in a Gear VR with an XB1 controller. That's about as good as it will get, unless they are going to do something completely unprecedented for Nintendo

EDIT: as for that other commenter, I thought it was HD Rumble that was supposed to be on par with Oculus Touch? That won't help tracking at all
 
This won't happen with the current hardware. And if Nintendo's goal is VR that can last for hours, they really won't ever do it as a comfortable yet decently powerful system would be way outside of the price they'd want to put something at.

Honestly the switch would work great if it had a higher res screen. I mean the graphics wouldn't be great, but the form factor, necessary controls and sensors are there. It wouldn't be the main draw, but also you wouldn't be spending hundreds of extra dollars for an exclusively VR platform.
 
No, they are not even in the same real in terms of positional tracking, not even to a Move controller. The strong suit of Joycon is how versatile they are.

Basically they contain an Accelerometer and a Gyroscope and tey can't sense their postion in relation to each other. The type of interactions seen in Arms are in the range of a WM+ capable Wii Remote, but hopefully the quality of the IMUs in there surpasses that.
The stuff done in ARMS and 1-2Switch aren't in the range of WM+. Did you ever use WM+? When people say waggle fest, they aren't kidding. It needed constant recalibration, constantly drifted, wasn't ever exactly accurate in the first place unless it was pointing at the sensor bar. The move, while partially camera based, isn't more accurate in reality than WM+, which was sensor bar and gyro based. They both measure the size and distance of the remote from a sensor.


People from the hands on are saying that the responsiveness and accuracy of the joycon are spot on, and developers are the ones saying that it feels more like an oculus or vive controller than a typical motion controller. I'm honestly not sure if they can track each other in 3D space, but it would be doable with bluetooth, to an extent, and there is a camera on one of them, for whatever reason.

Also, the Joycon are removeable and replaceable. It's not outside the realm of possibility for them to sell better ones separately bundled with a VR headmount.
 
They couldn't put a 1080p screen because of the GPU, not because of the screen.

What makes me think they can do it in 2020? Simple, we should made a galactic shift in GPU architectures with Pascal. Switch couldn't get on the right side of that shift. Switch+1 will get the benefits of three years progress plus that shift. Those are power AND performance benefits BTW.

An upgraded Dock could do the tracking BTW.

The model is right. Nintendo just has to execute.
I think it has more to do with the battery, could be wrong though.

The problem is not the power of the console, or the ability to track the remotes. The problem is the screen. At 720p, your VR experience will be this:



Does that look appealing to you?
a bit of an exaggeration, but I agree. IDK, I'm not the developer that said it, I'm just repeating what people who have worked with the console from a development perspective have said.
 
Vr looks like shit even on the PRO, its pointless them even trying to run that tech on a switch surely?
It's a future consideration that's not currently in the plans on a current Switch console. It seems like they're trying to figure out a way to get it to work in a way they see fit for a future iteration.
 
The stuff done in ARMS and 1-2Switch aren't in the range of WM+. Did you ever use WM+? When people say waggle fest, they aren't kidding. It needed constant recalibration, constantly drifted, wasn't ever exactly accurate in the first place unless it was pointing at the sensor bar. The move, while partially camera based, isn't more accurate in reality than WM+, which was sensor bar and gyro based. They both measure the size and distance of the remote from a sensor.
How accurate the IMUs inside the Joycon in relation to the WM+ is not what's been debated in the first place. What i' ve clearly said previously is that the type of motion inputs performed in Arms are within the range of a WM+ sensing capabilities. 1 2 Switch wasn't discussed, the games that use the IR camera obviously can't be replicated.

im well aware of the capabilties of a Wii Remote+/Nunchuck. A friend of mine had a program that let you program the Wii Remote sensors and buttons, even if im a technical layman i got to play with it and through trial and error accumulated some experience of what it can do.

Here's a run down, hopefully you will have the cortesy to read this XD
  • Character movement: Arms uses the Joycon as Joysticks, to move in the 8 directions the user tilts both Joycon simulatneously in a give direction. An original Wii Remote with it's accelerometers could replicate the same functionality, that was exactly how the rolling ball levels in Galaxy worked and it was accurate enough, there aren't calibration issues since it uses the earths magnetism gravity as a point of reference.
  • Punching: In Arms the user quickly flicks the Joycon forward, it doesn't detect the angle (upwards/downwards) and twists the wrist left or right to curve the punch. The Wii Remote accelerometers can easily sense this. Punch Out or Wii Boxing for example. As for curving the punch the WM+ gyro can replicate that input sensing.
  • Blocking: In Arms the user tilts the Joycon in opposite directions but it works exactly like moving in terms of motion recogniton.
  • Throwing: In Arms the user flick left and right hand simultaneously. Same motion detection as throwing punches.
These type of gestures are within the sensing capabilites of a WM+ Wii Remote.

People from the hands on are saying that the responsiveness and accuracy of the joycon are spot on, and developers are the ones saying that it feels more like an oculus or vive controller than a typical motion controller. I'm honestly not sure if they can track each other in 3D space, but it would be doable with bluetooth, to an extent, and there is a camera on one of them, for whatever reason.
No they can't have absolute certainity of their position in 3D Space. And developers aren't saying there are equivalent to Touch controllers.

Save for a misinformed person that works at an Indie studio and that had some facts wrong, i hant heard that claim made before.

Gravity, not magnetism is what gives an accelerometer its absolute frame of reference. A magnetometer can be used to correct rotational drift from a gyro, but wouldn't be needed for joystick level tilt sensing.
Thanks of the correction, noted above. The Magnetometer fact i was aware of, since i think that's how is implemented in the Wii U Gamepad, the drifting was minimized considerably in relation to the M+.

What's your opinion in regards to the type of motions used in Arms. Aren't those within the capabilities of a Wii Remote+ Motion sensing? That's leaving aside the possibilty of the Joycon IMUs been more precise since it's a safe asumption over 2006/2008 tech.
 
An original Wii Remote with it's accelerometers could replicate the same functionality, that was exactly how the rolling ball levels in Galaxy worked and it was accurate enough, there aren't calibration issues since it uses the earths magnetism as a point of reference.
Gravity, not magnetism is what gives an accelerometer its absolute frame of reference. A magnetometer can be used to correct rotational drift from a gyro, but wouldn't be needed for joystick level tilt sensing.
 
Damn, I didn't realise only 10 people in the world can use vr without being sick. I must know 5 of them when I had a party recently and no one had any issues using the psvr.

I know what you mean, but I think that for the most part it's a vocal minority that suffer with issues or simply don't have the set up correct. Vr can be popular and successful right now, Sony is showing that.
I mean those 10 people that have a Switch and have no issue with vr, and want to buy vr ;;) But you know what I mean.
 
Bold is nonsense, they could easily run Shovel Knight or something at 1080p in portable mode. They didn't put a 1080p screen on there because of costs. Same reason they won't put a 4K screen on one in 3 years, probably not even in 6 years.
1080p LCD screens are commodities. They are dirt cheap. Running games on the GPU at 1080p would have killed battery life. It's really not hard to understand.

And yep, just like the Scorpio/Zen fanboy wishlist, Switch 2 will have glorious Pascal and blow the PS4 out of the water in portable mode with its magic battery. That won't be prohibitively expensive for Nintendo's business model!
In three years you think portable Pascal will be expensive? 4K screens will be closing on on commodity pricing by then as well. The cost for LG to produce a 4K LCD panel is actually not much more than producing a 1080p LCD panel.

And the upgraded dock could do tracking... I'm gonna need an example of how that would work. You need actual tracking in 3D space
The dock would have a tracking sensor that tracks the controller and headset. It's really not that difficult to fathom.

Close to GTX970 performance in a mobile form factor (say three years down the road) is not some incredible achievement and it certainly won't be expensive.
 
Thanks of the correction, noted above. The Magnetometer fact i was aware of, since i think that's how is implemented in the Wii U Gamepad, the drifting was minimized considerably in relation to the M+.

What's your opinion in regards to the type of motions used in Arms. Aren't those within the capabilities of a Wii Remote+ Motion sensing? That's leaving aside the possibilty of the Joycon IMUs been more precise since it's a safe asumption over 2006/2008 tech.
The Wii U adds a 3 axis magnetometer and has a 3 axis gyro over the WiiMotion+'s 2 axis gyro. Then there's the fact that the sensors themselves are newer / better than the aging ones on the Wiimote. So yeah, drift should be better controlled on the Wii U pad.

I obviously haven't played Arms, nor have I kept up on the exact details of its control scheme. My knowledge goes about as far as the reveal video in that regard. If the controls are as you described, then no I don't see anything that's technically impossible with Wiimotion+. Recognizing abstracted gestures, especially large basic ones, was within that controller's capabilities. At worst the actions might need to be more exaggerated on the Wiimote which could lead to the controls feeling more sluggish. The real limitations of the Wiimote begin to show up when you want to detect and distinguish subtle differences in movements, and they're downright incapable of any accurate 1:1 position mapping. (Of course anything relying solely on an IMU isn't going to have accurate 1:1 spacial tracking - including the Joycons.)
 
The problem is not the power of the console, or the ability to track the remotes. The problem is the screen. At 720p, your VR experience will be this:



Does that look appealing to you?
I use a home-made cardboard on my iPhone 5 which is less than 720p and sure you can see the individual pixels but you get used to it after a while and stop noticing it.

Imagine a StarFox game with SNES-style polygons on SwitchVR. sogood.gif
 
Wow, so many unlikely caveats to that answer that it makes the thread premise seem misleading. It'd be like me posting a thread saying "I can make you a million dollars" and didn't include the important "if you can find me the pancreas of a tyrannosaur".
 
The Dolphin Emulator lets you already play Nintendo games in VR. I have to say that Nintendo games in VR are cooler than anything available in the retail. Metroid Prime would be the coolest VR game ever if it didn't give you VR sickness.
 
So the switch will sell 100 million units and can also do VR..., tomorrow Nintendo will say the switch could theoretically also cure cancer.
 
Now :

Speculation time!

When you'll slide the Switch in the VR helmet, there'll be a 2nd non opaque cheap LCD screen already in the headset. Both of them will work together to create Cascading display.

Nvidia created this before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XwaARRMbSA&feature=youtu.be





With their algorithms and the use of 2 cheap LCD displays, they can reach the illusion of having 4x the resolution.

If people weren't so dense, this would have been quoted a hundred times in this thread already rather than all these "lol VR with 720p screens? Okay...." type posts.

Not only is this Nvidia, who Nintendo already have a big partnership with for this console, but they demonstrate how they were able to get these results with 2 off-the-shelf LCD displays. I think they say in the video that they just removed the backlight from one display and arranged the panel in a way that made it "cascaded. Sounds super cheap to get the desired effect. I'm surprised no VR HMDs go for this approach considering how expensive additive higher resolution displays, how much more energy they must use, and and how much more power it takes to push that many pixels.

It also sounds like having cascaded displays allow for a smoother framerate that appears faster at lower refresh levels simply by staggering refresh frames. That seems like another benefit Nintendo could use with this technique for smoother video output for VR at a lower actual display refresh rate.

If they add a magnetometer like the Wii U Gamepad (assuming there is nothing like that inside already) to the HMD, they have another sensor for positional tracking and then you have a headset that is at least on par with the GearVR (as it seems, from the Switch patents, that the core device has gyros and accelerometers already built in). Even without a magetometer, it would be on par with the Google Daydream with seems to rely soley on the phones' gyro and accelerometers. Speaking of the Daydream, the Joycon are better than the Daydream's sole controller in that they have more buttons, there are 2 of them (one for each hand), and they have haptic feedback built in. Already that makes the Switch compatible with 2 of the lower cost, larger install bases for VR software, and maybe can even bridge the gap enough to get some game support for at least some of the other higher end game support (let's be for real, roomscale will not be the standard going forward, and basically every headset supports standing/sitting/turning experiences).

On top of that, they could have the Switch "dock" in the HMD to be able to get higher performance out of the machine for the extra power that would be needed and it already had a fan built in so it doesn't overheat, which is more of a problem for smartphone mounted designs.

I think there may be a real possibility Nintendo already knows they can pull it off with the tech they already have in the Switch, but like Kimishima says, comfort is a real concern that developers are still struggling with overcoming in multiple areas, especially when it comes to incorporating traditional gaming. I mean, it seems they know of the common technical/software/hardware issues that can cause discomfort, but when it comes to movement in ways that may seem normal but causes a certain "uncanny valley" sensation, it can really mess with some people in some circumstances.
 
Well, Nintendo cancelled the Vitality Sensor because it only worked on "9 out of 10 test subjects", so I can only assume they won't pursue VR unless they can get it to a level where it doesn't make anyone woozy.
 
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the switch seems in like with current mobile VR solutions, no? I imagine the biggest issue, is if the Switch's screen is only 60hz. For simply VR games, the switches internals seem fine, and the inclusion of motion controllers could make for some great little VR games.
Switch weighs 10.48 oz without the controllers attached. The heaviest phone that you could stick in the GearVR was the Note 4 @ 6.21 oz. 4.2 oz is a lot of extra weight for something attached to the front of your head. It's probably the biggest impediment to it being a comfortable experience.

I'm also skeptical of Nintendo's know-how in the field. Samsung had Carmack specifically dig into their OS and etc to render stuff incredibly well. Unless Nintendo hired a bunch of VR tech wizards, I imagine they're going to struggle.
 
Would be weird though. Nintendo don't do many fps games, and VR is pretty much dead now so would be stupid for Nintendo to do the same mistake like Sony.
 
Would be weird though. Nintendo don't do many fps games, and VR is pretty much dead now so would be stupid for Nintendo to do the same mistake like Sony.
VR works for every genre. In fact, Nintendo's franchises are all perfect fits for VR that can only be better because of it. A Mario platformer in VR would be really great. 3rd person Zelda as well, and they have 1st person franchises like Star Fox, Mario Kart, Metroid, F-Zero.
Mario Party could be a lot better in VR as well with tabletop miniatures.

VR isn't dead at all, and is only growing more as time goes on.
 
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"Studying" and "once they figure something rather unfigurable" and that on the console that is somewhat faster than previous gen xbox, yeah, cool story...
 
"once they figure out how users can play for hours without problems. "

= never
I, along with all my friends already play for hours without problems. However, for the average person and their grandma, it will require new display technology to get rid of the vergence-accommodation conflict. Varifocal displays in gen 2 should be nearly there, so it can probably be fixed within 5 years. Add wireless and smaller headsets, and anyone, including an elderly person will be able to use VR for 12 hours a day every day within 10 years.
 
For the life of me, I can't fathom the oddly elitist dismissals of VR on the Switch due merely to its resolution etc.

I've been using VR on my iPhone 6 (roughly 720p) via Cardboard (and a few other headsets, but honestly I like Cardboard's simplicity) for a couple years now, and still to this day break it out at various family gatherings to show a new VR video or small app to the kids. Despite not being PS4 level, or remotely close, it's an incredibly fun experience, and I've yet to give it to a single friend or family member who isn't transfixed for a while, even in 2018.

It's absurd to say that VR isn't fun unless it mimics full gaming experiences. There are a ton of enjoyable things you can do with it at lower resolution that are still remarkably enjoyable. You just have to treat it more as a cool toy with a lot of neat tricks -- which is exactly what Nintendo would do well -- and stop trying to enshrine it as some evolution of the entire gaming / entertainment experience.
 
I'll reserve final judgment until the day it comes out. Preliminary thoughts are this sounds unrealistic. They haven't mastered simple voice chat, remain under powered compared to machines that tried VR so far, still include bare minimial internal memory, and refuse to sell without making a good profit. What are we talking, a $900 VR system with 35 cords that can run pacman?
 
I just want to play Mario platformers and Mario Kart in VR. If you've played things like Moss or Starchild you'll already see the potential and knowing Nintendo the polish should be pretty good too.
 
I don't think it's gonna happen with the current iteration of the console. It's power is just so underwhelming for a semi-serious VR experience.