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Nintendo's new platform codename: "Project NX"

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10k

Banned
The "X" is a common variable used to denote "unknown" or "blank". In math the common expression is "solve for X".

The N is Nintendo most likely or New hardware.

So since they don't have a game yet they combine the first letter of Nintendo with the unknown variable (the platform name) "X". You're left with NX.
 
Yes but the alternative is retire from the home segment, imho, so..

Not really just the home segment, given 3DS' premature decline in the West. The Japanese handheld market is the only place where they can be reasonably assured of success, and that's not large enough to support the hardware business on its own.

But yes, if they insist on staying in the hardware business, NX seems like the smartest move they could possibly make from the (very weak) position they're currently in. That said, I think, business-wise at least, they'd ultimately be better off exiting hardware than bothering with NX - whether that means becoming a third party, forming some sort of partnership with Apple or Google, or something else entirely, I dunno - but obviously, that ship has sailed.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Not really just the home segment, given 3DS' premature decline in the West. The Japanese handheld market is the only place where they can be reasonably assured of success, and that's not large enough to support the hardware business on its own.

But yes, if they insist on staying in the hardware business, NX seems like the smartest move they could possibly make from the (very weak) position they're currently in. That said, I think, business-wise at least, they'd ultimately be better off exiting hardware than bothering with NX - whether that means becoming a third party, forming some sort of partnership with Apple or Google, or something else entirely, I dunno - but obviously, that ship has sailed.
You act as if the Wii U damaged Nintendo beyond repair. Granted, Nintendo doesn't have as big of a pull as they used to, but the NX Platform could help carve out a reliable niche for the Big N if they go the iPhone-esque upgrade approach (albeit not as frequently with the upgrades). That way they can build up a bigger library as the years go on without having to start from zero each generation.
 

NahaNago

Member
I've felt lately that the first-party software output lacks the WOW factor. Its just more of the same it feels like. They look great, play great, and are overall great games but nothing to make me want to immediately go out and buy their console right after seeing their trailer. Infamous second son and driveclub just plain looked amazing when i saw the trailers and made me immediately want to get the console. Sunset overdrive looked awesome as well. WIthout that extra pull to make someone want to get their console i just see it flopping again . It could be gimmicks or an amazing game but it really needs that something. Just your basic Nintendo games that we got this gen being shared between the handheld and console will not attract new customers or drawn in the ones that left Nintendo fold. Weird rant , i know.
 

Mithos

Member
But what's the point when the audience for a competitive system went elsewhere? Nintendo only needs to keep indies & the Japanese happy. They can't do much to get western third parties back for a long time, if ever. If Nintendo meets the bare minimum requirements for Unreal Engine 4 for the NX Console, they're good to go.

Bare minimum what, I'd say that barrier is at ~1Tflops because that is where Epic said "good stuff started to happen" (not an actual quote), and not where the mobile version of the engine starts.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Bare minimum what, I'd say that barrier is at ~1Tflops because that is where Epic said "good stuff started to happen" (not an actual quote), and not where the mobile version of the engine starts.
I'd say normal UE4 for console, mobile for handheld.
 

L Thammy

Member
Why are we discussing Halo's influence on the FPS genre in a Nintendo NX thread? While we're on the subject, I believe Wolfenstein 3D is actually predated by a game called MIDI Maze. Don't know if that's the earliest.


When discussing third party support, I think people tend to simplify it to "power = support" which has never really been true. The root cause of Nintendo's poor third party support is that they just do not prioritize third party developers. This includes both expensive proprietary software formats (N64 and GameCube) and weird standard controllers that developers don't really know or care how to use (Wii and Wii U). Third parties are an afterthought, which makes it easier for the other companies to lure them away.

If the NX eliminates the difficulty or makes it trivially simple to release a game on both console and handheld, that will be great for a lot of Japanese developers. It eliminates the barrier where Japan prefers handhelds and America prefers consoles. Though the way Japanese companies have picked up Unreal Engine 4 probably makes it a smaller concern now due to the scalability of the engine, but whatever. Western companies might be able to go the other way and (with some Nintendo Direct presence) have an easier time breaking into Japan, but I don't think many of them really care about that, and they'd probably have to put in effort to get console versions anyhow.

But the NX concept is still one that serves Nintendo's developers. It's to make it easier for Nintendo to support their own games, and the benefit for third parties is coincidental. It's still very possible that the system is going to have some weird issue that we don't know about that's going to drive third parties off.
 

Vena

Member
Not really just the home segment, given 3DS' premature decline in the West. The Japanese handheld market is the only place where they can be reasonably assured of success, and that's not large enough to support the hardware business on its own.

But yes, if they insist on staying in the hardware business, NX seems like the smartest move they could possibly make from the (very weak) position they're currently in. That said, I think, business-wise at least, they'd ultimately be better off exiting hardware than bothering with NX - whether that means becoming a third party, forming some sort of partnership with Apple or Google, or something else entirely, I dunno - but obviously, that ship has sailed.

You have a large misunderstanding of Nintendo's finances if you think they can just waltz out of hardware.
 

L Thammy

Member
I honestly do think that their first-party software just isn't that compelling a differentiator from other gaming platforms anymore, and as for input/display gimmicks... well, never say never, but I believe the market circa 2016 is much less prone to disruption than the market circa 2006.

I think that the reason why the Wii worked was very much the blue ocean thing. It appealed to a group that had never been marketed to before, and at the time, that group had no options except hardcore gaming devices that weren't really tailored to them. Now that multiple options exist, you'd have to find a totally different market to have the same sort of disruption. And what market would that be?

This seems like more your opinion than something of fact. There first party software has been amazing. If anything one of the reasons TO buy the console. Granted some games wasn't there at launch. They lacked marketing big time for Wii U and lacked significantly. Funny because I saw second son and drive club and thought more of the same and wanted nothing to do with a PS4.

While I do think that NahaNago is just stating their opinion, I also think that quality Nintendo software is just not a good enough sell by itself. You just have to look at the Wii U situation. The software is there by now, including all of the biggest hits it's ever going to get, and yet that's still in the dumps. The quality of the software doesn't seem to be the issue even going by review sites. There has to be something more that a Nintendo system needs in order to succeed. Either third party support, or a console that is actually appealing. Ideally both.
 
I think that the reason why the Wii worked was very much the blue ocean thing. It appealed to a group that had never been marketed to before, and at the time, that group had no options except hardcore gaming devices that weren't really tailored to them. Now that multiple options exist, you'd have to find a totally different market to have the same sort of disruption. And what market would that be?



While I do think that NahaNago is just stating their opinion, I also think that quality Nintendo software is just not a good enough sell by itself. You just have to look at the Wii U situation. The software is there by now, including all of the biggest hits it's ever going to get, and yet that's still in the dumps. The quality of the software doesn't seem to be the issue even going by review sites. There has to be something more that a Nintendo system needs in order to succeed. Either third party support, or a console that is actually appealing. Ideally both.
The problem with the Wii U is the stigma that Nintendo just won't be able to escape, no matter what they release some people are convinced that Nintendo has never been in the power race which isn't true, or that Nintendo has never supported mature games also untrue until people look at Nintendo not with optimism but with unbias, Nintendo will always have the week kiddy console even if they slapped their logo on a mini Alienware PC the perception will still be there that it just isn't good enough.
 

10k

Banned
You act as if the Wii U damaged Nintendo beyond repair. Granted, Nintendo doesn't have as big of a pull as they used to, but the NX Platform could help carve out a reliable niche for the Big N if they go the iPhone-esque upgrade approach (albeit not as frequently with the upgrades). That way they can build up a bigger library as the years go on without having to start from zero each generation.
You'd be surprised at how many people think the Wii, the console that sold over 100M, damaged Nintendo beyond repair because it was "casual" and standard definition.
 

ZhugeEX

Banned
And again, what of the handheld? Can't simulate motion controls on a handheld beyond just gyro.

I wasn't being serious, more a dig at the "Apple TV will kill consoles" thing going around the web.

Although now that I actually think about it.....
 

Hiltz

Member
But the idea of the apparent NX Platform is to share most of their games across the two systems, thus eliminating any potential software droughts. You can't share most of the games if you have two majorly different gimmicks. I could see the NX Console retaining a cheaper version of the GamePad to line up with the NX Handheld's possible dual screens, but that's it.

Yes, Nintendo will have to take considerable thought when it comes to which hardware features will work across both handheld and home console similarly to how Wii U and 3DS both have touch screen control or two screens as well. As for the software itself, Nintendo obviously has different options available to it, but may not limited to just the following:

- make a game on handheld and offer the same game as a remastered port on the home console (like MH3 Ultimate HD on Wii U which originated from 3DS)

- Port a home console title to the handheld (like DKC:Returns or Xenoblade from Wii to 3DS), remove some hardware features like Wii's motion control which wont' work in the 3DS version of DKC: Returns

- Make a title on either platform and use those same assets to make a small-scale spin-off title on a different platform or even the same platform. We saw this happen with Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker which used assets from Mario 3D World

- Make a similar base game like Smash Bros on both handheld and home console. Provide some different content and hard features between each version of the game

- Some games will remain exclusive to each platform in order to take advantage of what a single platform has to offer for whatever the reason

- Provide a mainline franchise title like Mario Kart 9 on handheld, but use the same transferable assets to make Mario Kart 10 on the home console (including DLC). This can save Nintendo development and financial resources. Alternatively, use Mario Kart in a similar way to what was done to make Smash Bros Wii U & 3DS. With that said, I'm no expert when it comes to this game developer technical know-how, so I'm not sure what limitations there would be with platforms that have integrated architecture
 
You act as if the Wii U damaged Nintendo beyond repair. Granted, Nintendo doesn't have as big of a pull as they used to, but the NX Platform could help carve out a reliable niche for the Big N if they go the iPhone-esque upgrade approach (albeit not as frequently with the upgrades). That way they can build up a bigger library as the years go on without having to start from zero each generation.

"Wii U damaged Nintendo beyond repair" is actually almost the opposite of what I think, which is that Nintendo's current plight is the result of decades-long cultural and structural problems with their approach to the business, *not* merely of mistakes specific to the Wii U and 3DS platforms. Even though, of course, there were plenty of those.

I simply don't think a glorified Mario/Zelda/etc. box, even at $150-200, is that appealing to the mass market anymore, and I don't see that as being within Nintendo's power to change... even though, again, it sounds like they're doing the best they possibly can.


You have a large misunderstanding of Nintendo's finances if you think they can just waltz out of hardware.

Where did I say that? There's no easy or painless way for Nintendo to exit the hardware market, true enough, and anyone who would suggest otherwise is being naive. But unlike a lot of you, I think their position in the hardware market is bad enough that exiting would be the lesser of two evils.
 

Roo

Member
- Provide a mainline franchise title like Mario Kart 9 on handheld, but use the same transferable assets to make Mario Kart 10 on the home console (including DLC). This can save Nintendo development and financial resources. Alternatively, use Mario Kart in a similar way to what was done to make Smash Bros Wii U & 3DS. With that said, I'm no expert when it comes to this game developer technical know-how, so I'm not sure what limitations there would be with platforms that have integrated architecture.

The problem I see with your argument about Mario Kart and Smash is that they're doing this to avoid droughts and to speed up development times.
Even tho Smash 3DS/Wii U are very similar games, they were treated as two completely entries.

From a development and financial point of view, it'd make more sense to literally work on the same game for both consoles but adapt each to their respective hardware capabilities. It's up to the consumer to decide what version of X game they want.


I shamelessly stole this from another forum but take it as a reference for your MK9-10 point

cUaYcB7.jpg


In this case, each version has a special feature from their respective machine eg. 3D for Handheld and motion controls for home console.
Instead of working on two separate games (even sharing assets) release the same game in both platforms and fill them with content as much as you want. This applies to every single game, not just MK.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
The problem I see with your argument about Mario Kart and Smash is that they're doing this to avoid droughts and to speed up development times.
Even tho Smash 3DS/Wii U are very similar games, they were treated as two completely entries.

From a development and financial point of view, it'd make more sense to literally work on the same game for both consoles but adapt each to their respective hardware capabilities. It's up to the consumer to decide what version of X game they want.


I shamelessly stole this from another forum but take it as a reference for your MK9-10 point




In this case, each version has a special feature from their respective machine eg. 3D for Handheld and motion controls for home console.
Instead of working on two separate games (even sharing assets) release the same game in both platforms and fill them with content as much as you want. This applies to every single game, not just MK.
That would make sense, but I feel like they'd do a genuine Mario Kart 9 for both rather than just upgrading Mario Kart 8. Plus I'm not sure if they'd do motion controls for the NX Console, since they'd probably ditch all older controllers besides the GameCube Adapter (for Smash purposes).
 

ZhugeEX

Banned
"Wii U damaged Nintendo beyond repair" is actually almost the opposite of what I think, which is that Nintendo's current plight is the result of decades-long cultural and structural problems with their approach to the business, *not* merely of mistakes specific to the Wii U and 3DS platforms. Even though, of course, there were plenty of those..

Wii U hasn't really affected Nintendo's reputation in the grand scheme of things. But it's made them harder to actually be considered next generation as an instant purchase in the way 360/PS3 to PS4 was.

Nintendo need to do something different this gen to get people interested in the product for what it is, like Sony did with the original PlayStation and how Nintendo did with the Wii.

Software is key and these days it's third party software that is king. So that has to be a must.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Software is key and these days it's third party software that is king. So that has to be a must.
But the problem is that western third parties couldn't give any less of a shit about Nintendo. Not only is the audience for their games not on Nintendo platforms, but there's also the fact that Nintendo burned them too many times. The most Nintendo can do is ensure that the Japanese third parties & indie developers either stick around or jump on board, because most of the third parties west of the Pacific Ocean are a lost cause to Nintendo.
 

Roo

Member
That would make sense, but I feel like they'd do a genuine Mario Kart 9 for both rather than just upgrading Mario Kart 8. Plus I'm not sure if they'd do motion controls for the NX Console, since they'd probably ditch all older controllers besides the GameCube Adapter (for Smash purposes).

Well, like I said, it's a reference. It's not like they're going to do it anyway.
The motion controls was just a example of how they could use the each console's gimmick.
Also, no one but a really small vocal minority cares about the GCN adapter so I don't know why it'd get a special treatment over the other controllers.
 
But the problem is that western third parties couldn't give any less of a shit about Nintendo. Not only is the audience for their games not on Nintendo platforms, but there's also the fact that Nintendo burned them too many times. The most Nintendo can do is ensure that the Japanese third parties & indie developers either stick around or jump on board, because most of the third parties west of the Pacific Ocean are a lost cause to Nintendo.
Burned them how? In the 80's and 90's? The only valid reasoning I see is that the audience is small and some devs it's their own fault, releasing late ports and announcing that they won't get DLC even before the game is release effectively killing the game before arrival not releasing DLC after the game has come out, releasing packages of a game that they expect Wii U owners to only buy a single installment of. And that's just Activision and EA
 

L Thammy

Member
I hadn't really been thinking about the power difference between the handheld and console until now. What issues would actually come up because of that? Would it still be possible to have one cart for both systems? Would we have to expect system exclusives within the NX platform?

I am not sure what was going on with Nintendo but the lack of marketing had a bigger influence on Wii U console sales than other things people like to bring up like the name and lacking software. I mean ps4 sold like hot cakes out the gate and I would say software titles were not that strong. I kind of think NX started going into plan a lot earlier than we think. Good job on Nintendo for making some amazing quality games for Wii U. In that they showed they are as good as anyone in making games and when marketed (see splatoon) can sell well even for new ip's. Like they have a lot of hurdles to clear but they are not as dead as everyone thinks. They just need to put their big boy shorts on and fight their way out of this.

The PS4's marketing was better, but it was also the more appealing system by far. And people were still buying software, so even if it appeared weak, it was good enough to build an audience.

The simple reality is that, if Nintendo software was all that was needed to sell a console, Nintendo would not be stuck in a rut now. They would not have been stuck in a rut in the GameCube era either.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Burned them how? In the 80's and 90's? The only valid reasoning I see is that the audience is small and some devs it's their own fault, releasing late ports and announcing that they won't get DLC even before the game is release effectively killing the game before arrival not releasing DLC after the game has come out, releasing packages of a game that they expect Wii U owners to only buy a single installment of. And that's just Activision and EA
But games like Ninja Gaiden 3, Bayonetta 2, & the CoD games just didn't sell that well on Nintendo platforms. This is why I'm saying that an audience for mature games aren't on Nintendo platforms.
 

Vena

Member
But games like Ninja Gaiden 3, Bayonetta 2, & the CoD games just didn't sell that well on Nintendo platforms. This is why I'm saying that an audience for mature games aren't on Nintendo platforms.

Hasn't Bayo2 sold better than Bayo1 on platform breakdown, and without bargain bin pricing?
 

ZhugeEX

Banned
But the problem is that western third parties couldn't give any less of a shit about Nintendo. Not only is the audience for their games not on Nintendo platforms, but there's also the fact that Nintendo burned them too many times. The most Nintendo can do is ensure that the Japanese third parties & indie developers either stick around or jump on board, because most of the third parties west of the Pacific Ocean are a lost cause to Nintendo.

But then the dedicated gaming system that Nintendo put out will be an absolute failure. They can't have another Wii U again. Even if third parties aren't there from day 1 they need to be there on day 2, if you know what I mean.

I'm still not sure if Nintendo will release a dedicated handheld gaming system in all honestly, if they get mobile right then there won't be a need for one. Especially as dedicated handheld gaming systems are dying in the West at a very fast rate.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
But then the dedicated gaming system that Nintendo put out will be an absolute failure. They can't have another Wii U again. Even if third parties aren't there from day 1 they need to be there on day 2, if you know what I mean.

I'm still not sure if Nintendo will release a dedicated handheld gaming system in all honestly, if they get mobile right then there won't be a need for one. Especially as dedicated handheld gaming systems are dying in the West at a very fast rate.
We already know that we're getting both another console & another handheld. And if Iwata's hints are to be believed, both will be under the same platform & share most of their games. That plus the handhelds are huge in Japan, so there's no reason to ditch them. And what else is Nintendo going to do, anyone who wants western third party games have since gone elsewhere.
 
But games like Ninja Gaiden 3, Bayonetta 2, & the CoD games just didn't sell that well on Nintendo platforms. This is why I'm saying that an audience for mature games aren't on Nintendo platforms.
Ninja Gaiden 3 was panned before the Wii U version was released, CoD burned the people who were dedicated to playing the games on the Wii and Wii U by not releasing DLC, I know about a dozen people who didn't buy the games because they wanted proof that DLC would be released on Wii U, which didn't happen, the only valid point in my opinion is Bayonetta which sold about 750,000 copies including the one I bought and honestly on an install base that has just reached 10 million I don't think that's as bad as people are trying to make it.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Wait so now we are doubting the existence of any kind of nintendo dedicated videogame device, both portable not only home, even if the only official information we have about NX is that..it is a dedicated videogame device?

Wiiu suffered a lot, I would even say too much. 3ds declined in the West. But still..
 

Vena

Member
I'm still not sure if Nintendo will release a dedicated handheld gaming system in all honestly, if they get mobile right then there won't be a need for one. Especially as dedicated handheld gaming systems are dying in the West at a very fast rate.

Of course they will, they even said they would. Never has the NX been positioned as a singular platform. And it makes no sense for it to be done as such, mobile isn't some magic bullet, and there is no "loss" in having a variety of products on offer especially if they are an effectively a product with ubiquitous software and development. If anything consolidating to a singular platform is an easier path to utter failure in this day and age of turbulent market/consumer wants.

Moreover, the healthy launch of the N3DS (which, as I recall, largely exceeded original expectations in NPD even if it has since fallen back to 3DS nominal levels with nary any big releases to prop it) refresh makes me think the problem isn't that the west has somehow collapsed around handhelds, but that handhelds in the west have collapsed in getting supported. When a big game comes, hardware moves, but the problem is much the same as it is for the WiiU: only Nintendo is supporting it with anything big.

The west has moved away from developing handheld "big" games with no small part of that being helped right along with the total collapse of the Vita that was going to be the big boy on the block for those AAA experiences against old-man 3DS. One bridge got burned hard and fast by Sony, while the 3DS is annoying and old as hell to develop for with any modern tools.

We do?

I mean I can see them doing a handheld as well but since when did we get actual confirmation of a handheld being in development and another home console?

Matt confirmed the handheld months ago.
 

sörine

Banned
Hasn't Bayo2 sold better than Bayo1 on platform breakdown, and without bargain bin pricing?
Only in the US iirc, it outsold the individual 360 and PS3 Bayo 1 releases (but not combined). It did worse in Japan (even worse than Bayo 360), we don't know about Europe/PAL.

But then the dedicated gaming system that Nintendo put out will be an absolute failure. They can't have another Wii U again. Even if third parties aren't there from day 1 they need to be there on day 2, if you know what I mean.

I'm still not sure if Nintendo will release a dedicated handheld gaming system in all honestly, if they get mobile right then there won't be a need for one. Especially as dedicated handheld gaming systems are dying in the West at a very fast rate.
3rd parties will be there day 1, just not with core western games. The 3rd parties there will be Japanese, indie, some mobile and western pubs will show up with family/casual fare. We might see some core efforts too though, like COD, Batman or something from Ubisoft. Things like GTA, Destiny or Elder Scrolls probably won't ever come though.

And of course there'll be a new handheld. Despite the huge decline 3DS still has a sizable western base and it's completely dominating in Nintendo's home market. It's like saying there won't be a PS5 since PS4's a colossal failure in Japan.
 

Oregano

Member
But then the dedicated gaming system that Nintendo put out will be an absolute failure. They can't have another Wii U again. Even if third parties aren't there from day 1 they need to be there on day 2, if you know what I mean.

I'm still not sure if Nintendo will release a dedicated handheld gaming system in all honestly, if they get mobile right then there won't be a need for one. Especially as dedicated handheld gaming systems are dying in the West at a very fast rate.

I'm sure Japanese developers would love it if Nintendo snuffed out what life was left in their market.
 
Day 2 for third parties will be too late.

Not that I'm saying they're not hoping for a day 2, or that third parties won't do a day 2, but that it will be a miserable failure for third parties if they try to get on to the elevator on the fifth floor.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Day 2 for third parties will be too late.

Not that I'm saying they're not hoping for a day 2, or that third parties won't do a day 2, but that it will be a miserable failure for third parties if they try to get on to the elevator on the fifth floor.
But as of right now, western third parties couldn't give any less of a shit about Nintendo.
 

diaspora

Member
sörine;177374699 said:
Only in the US iirc, it outsold the individual 360 and PS3 Bayo 1 releases (but not combined). It did worse in Japan (even worse than Bayo 360), we don't know about Europe/PAL.


3rd parties will be there day 1, just not with core western games. The 3rd parties there will be Japanese, indie, some mobile and western pubs will show up with family/casual fare. We might see some core efforts too though, like COD, Batman or something from Ubisoft. Things like GTA, Destiny or Elder Scrolls probably won't ever come though.

And of course there'll be a new handheld. Despite the huge decline 3DS still has a sizable western base and it's completely dominating in Nintendo's home market. It's like saying there won't be a PS5 since PS4's a colossal failure in Japan.
3rd parties will be there provided Nintendo's base architecture, software, support, and documentation are all on point. Without it, they shouldn't even bother.

But as of right now, western third parties couldn't give any less of a shit about Nintendo.

Nintendo's my favourite gaming company bar none, but right now they haven't earned the attention of third parties.
 

neemmss

Member
The problem I see with your argument about Mario Kart and Smash is that they're doing this to avoid droughts and to speed up development times.
Even tho Smash 3DS/Wii U are very similar games, they were treated as two completely entries.

From a development and financial point of view, it'd make more sense to literally work on the same game for both consoles but adapt each to their respective hardware capabilities. It's up to the consumer to decide what version of X game they want.


I shamelessly stole this from another forum but take it as a reference for your MK9-10 point




In this case, each version has a special feature from their respective machine eg. 3D for Handheld and motion controls for home console.
Instead of working on two separate games (even sharing assets) release the same game in both platforms and fill them with content as much as you want. This applies to every single game, not just MK.

Basically what Nintendo should be doing is create a foundation that works on both mobile/home and depending on what version you purchase it will have unique functions? Meaning development does not have to be done for two separate platforms anymore, just one single one with minor changes here and there?

May I ask what forum you got that image from? I did a google search for that image, but couldn't get anything.
 

Oregano

Member
Huh? The mobile games industry is bigger than the dedicated one in Japan.

I was referring to the dedicated industry but even if I wasn't it's worth pointing it that a lot of JP Publishers are struggling on mobile and even the ones that have had success still rely on dedicated systems for a good chunk of their revenue.
 

ZhugeEX

Banned
Of course they will, they even said they would. Never has the NX been positioned as a singular platform. And it makes no sense for it to be done as such, mobile isn't some magic bullet, and there is no "loss" in having a variety of products on offer especially if they are an effectively a product with ubiquitous software and development. If anything consolidating to a singular platform is an easier path to utter failure in this day and age of turbulent market/consumer wants.

Moreover, the healthy launch of the N3DS (which, as I recall, largely exceeded original expectations in NPD even if it has since fallen back to 3DS nominal levels with nary any big releases to prop it) refresh makes me think the problem isn't that the west has somehow collapsed around handhelds, but that handhelds in the west have collapsed in getting supported. When a big game comes, hardware moves, but the problem is much the same as it is for the WiiU: only Nintendo is supporting it with anything big.

The west has moved away from developing handheld "big" games with no small part of that being helped right along with the total collapse of the Vita that was going to be the big boy on the block for those AAA experiences against old-man 3DS. One bridge got burned hard and fast by Sony, while the 3DS is annoying and old as hell to develop for with any modern tools.

Matt confirmed the handheld months ago.

Who is Matt again?

Using your example of NPD, the DSi which launched April 2009 and DSi XL which launched April 2010 have sold more than the Nintendo 3DS and New Nintendo 3DS in the USA. So a re-release of a 6 year old console have sold more than the latest iteration which is also old enough to have had a re-release.

I'm not saying a handheld doesn't exist, as it'd do well in Japan. But I'm saying that it's hard to see them develop one that will be a success.

sörine;177374699 said:
3rd parties will be there day 1, just not with core western games. The 3rd parties there will be Japanese, indie, some mobile and western pubs will show up with family/casual fare. We might see some core efforts too though, like COD, Batman or something from Ubisoft. Things like GTA, Destiny or Elder Scrolls probably won't ever come though.

And of course there'll be a new handheld. Despite the huge decline 3DS still has a sizable western base and it's completely dominating in Nintendo's home market. It's like saying there won't be a PS5 since PS4's a colossal failure in Japan.

In regards to third party they will need more than indies and Japanese developed games in order to appeal to the broader audience outside of Japan.

In regards to handheld I can see one coming out, my question was more in regards to whether it has been confirmed.

I'm sure Japanese developers would love it if Nintendo snuffed out what life was left in their market.

3DS is still a viable option for next two years at least.

Basically what Nintendo should be doing is create a foundation that works on both mobile/home and depending on what version you purchase it will have unique functions? Meaning development does not have to be done for two separate platforms anymore, just one single one with minor changes here and there?
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This is what I would expect to see as well.

Also tools that allow developers to bring games from other systems to Nintendo system/s easily.
 

Roo

Member
Basically what Nintendo should be doing is create a foundation that works on both mobile/home and depending on what version you purchase it will have unique functions? Meaning development does not have to be done for two separate platforms anymore, just one single one with minor changes here and there?

May I ask what forum you got that image from? I did a google search for that image, but couldn't get anything.

Yes, that's basically what I'm saying. Develop the base game for both consoles using high res assets, geometry, models, lighting, etc for the console version and then scale them down and adapt them to the handheld version (it can go either way but I assume it'd be easier to go from higher to lower)

On top of that, include whatever gimmick each console has but the core experience is the same on both.

Let's assume this is Mario Kart 9 for a moment.
The left image is for the handheld version and the right one is for the console.


Both games have the same tracks, characters, cups, etc but they look accordingly to their respective hardware capabilities.

And sure, here's the link:
http://www.mariokartwii.com/threads/144331-Nintendo-NX-(Nintendo-s-Next-gen-console)-ideas

I basically expanded his take on this matter.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
That really depends on whether they think they can money on their next platform. That's what these companies really care about.
Hard to do that when there's no proven audience on Nintendo platforms for said western third party games. Don't expect Elder Scrolls or Fallout to ever show up on the NX Platform.
 

Sandfox

Member
Hard to do that when there's no proven audience on Nintendo platforms for said western third party games. Don't expect Elder Scrolls or Fallout to ever show up on the NX Platform.

I'm obviously not expecting PS4 level support, but I think it will come down to the platform and the incentives Nintendo will probably be offering for certain titles that fit who they are targeting.
 

4Tran

Member
But the problem is that western third parties couldn't give any less of a shit about Nintendo. Not only is the audience for their games not on Nintendo platforms, but there's also the fact that Nintendo burned them too many times. The most Nintendo can do is ensure that the Japanese third parties & indie developers either stick around or jump on board, because most of the third parties west of the Pacific Ocean are a lost cause to Nintendo.
That's a problem that Nintendo is going to have to fix sooner or later. If they're resigned to never getting major Western third party support again, then maybe they'd be better off dropping out of the home console market.

I hadn't really been thinking about the power difference between the handheld and console until now. What issues would actually come up because of that? Would it still be possible to have one cart for both systems? Would we have to expect system exclusives within the NX platform?
I think that the presumption that a game would work as is on both the handheld and console NX is completely unfounded. Any developer would want to tailor their game around each piece of hardware's capabilities and limitations, and any competitive console is going to have completely different hardware from a handheld. What Nintendo probably meant was to have a unifed development framework so that any assets and programming designed for the one would be easily transferrable to the other. So if a developer wants to make a game for both systems, they'd basically have to make one as the port of the other, but at least the process wouldn't be as painful.

But then the dedicated gaming system that Nintendo put out will be an absolute failure. They can't have another Wii U again. Even if third parties aren't there from day 1 they need to be there on day 2, if you know what I mean.

I'm still not sure if Nintendo will release a dedicated handheld gaming system in all honestly, if they get mobile right then there won't be a need for one. Especially as dedicated handheld gaming systems are dying in the West at a very fast rate.
I think that Nintendo doesn't have too much choice in the matter. Handhelds are responsible for too much of their revenue and especially profit for them to let that business go. More specifically, the 3DS isn't in as dire need of replacement as the Wii U, but it's lifecycle still can't be extended beyond 2017. The replacement is probably going to lose 50% of the 3DS' market, but that's why Nintendo has been diversifying.
 

Vena

Member
Who is Matt again?

A person who knows a lot about the hardware.

Using your example of NPD, the DSi which launched April 2009 and DSi XL which launched April 2010 have sold more than the Nintendo 3DS and New Nintendo 3DS in the USA. So a re-release of a 6 year old console have sold more than the latest iteration which is also old enough to have had a re-release.

I'm not saying a handheld doesn't exist, as it'd do well in Japan. But I'm saying that it's hard to see them develop one that will be a success.

I honestly don't think comparing anything to the DS is a worthwhile point of comparison after the mobile evolution. There is definite contraction in the market as with all of the dedicated markets and, as I said, it hasn't been helped along by the Vita's utter failure and mismanagement or the age of the 3DS hardware which makes middleware solutions impossible or impractical. There is no support for that American audience to really be enticed outside of Nintendo doing heavy lifting (which brings us back to the issue of having to support two wayward systems all alone). But to not bring a handheld to market (especially for an ubiquitous software family of systems) is just robbing yourself and your customers of potential products they may want to buy and for you to sell. Its still a form of diversification.

Even for just Japan, if the software is ubiquitous, it will be a success if that software is sold elsewhere in whatever or to whatever form-factor is necessary. This isn't a binary system, or at least that is the point of Nintendo's shift to the "iOS family" format.

Moreover, a handheld to market in Japan that is leveraged and supported properly, can put Nintendo in a strong position over Sony for that array of software (which they can then bring westward and leverage that about as well as any other platform if the identity is established since its still a fairly niche audience in the grand scheme), especially if the handheld has full middleware support. If you have two competing products to market that are effectively identical in the game offerings outside of form-factor and the IPs brought to the table through the first party, the latter of which one is known for the and the other isn't, there is a strength and market cornering to potentially persue. (Making that software also easily sold to console owners the world over with little extra work required other than higher level assets and settings, is an even nicer deal to bring to the table when dealing with developers.)
 
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